Whatever Happened To Predictability? Roger Spitz Explains

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Michelle Dewarrat, a member of the Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council, about the two sessions she will co-present at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026 on November 19th and 20th. They discuss what attendees can expect from these advanced sessions, one on Agentic AI and one on the Multifunction Risk Leader.   Michelle also shares her career path, how she landed in ERM, and her ERM philosophy. Listen for Michelle's insights into operationalizing your ERM Program. Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by Michelle Dewarrat, a member of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council who will be co-presenting two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026, which will be held November 19th and 20th. [:45] It's an ERM-centric episode! Before we get to our interview… [:50] Webinars: Origami Risk will return on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for it, you are automatically registered for the new date in December. [1:08] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments." [1:23] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at RIMS.org/webinars. [1:34] I've got a link on this episode's show notes to the virtual workshops for the RIMS-CRMP. [1:40] Special announcement: On December 3rd and 4th, 2026, from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., you can prepare for the RIMS-CRMP exam with the RIMS 2026 President, Manny Padilla, at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. [1:57] The exam application fee is included if you register for this prep course. Visit RIMS.org/Certification and the link in this episode's show notes. [2:07] The Q3 Edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine is now available at RMMagazine.com. Check it out! [2:14] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and more informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:31] A special message from ERM Conference Keynote Roger Spitz: "I'm Roger Spitz, Chairman of the Disruptive Futures Institute and President of Techistential, where I advise leaders on strategic foresight, artificial intelligence, and decision-making under deep uncertainty. [2:54] "I'm excited to join you at the RIMS ERM Conference, November 19th and 20th, in Columbus, Ohio. [3:01] "My keynote, "Black Swans and Golden Geese: Risks and Returns in the Era of Unpredictability," will explore how systemic disruption, accelerating technological change, and AI are challenging the traditional approaches to risk management. [3:16] "When risks are interconnected, unpredictable, and capable of cascading across entire systems, yesterday's models may no longer be enough. How can we anticipate disruption, build organizational resilience, and adapt quickly enough to turn uncertainty into opportunity? [3:33] "We'll examine new approaches to navigating complexity through my Triple-A Framework: Antifragile, Anticipatory, and Agility. In an unpredictable world, the forces that look like value destruction for the unprepared are where to concentrate for those ready to move. [3:53] "They're the golden geese that surface in disorder. [3:56] "I look forward to seeing you at the RIMS ERM Conference. Register at RIMS.org/ERM2026." [4:07] Thank you, Roger. We look forward to seeing you at the RIMS ERM Conference. [4:11] On with the Show!  We have another featured speaker on our show today. Michelle Dewarrat is the Senior Vice President of Risk Management for Balfour Beatty Investments and a valued member of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council. [4:26] Michelle will co-present two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference. Catch her November 19th at the session "The Autonomous Risk Officer: How Agentic AI is reshaping ERM." [4:38] On November 20th, Michelle will co-present "The Multi-function Risk Leader Round Table: Managing Across Domains Without Losing Control." We're going to get a little bit of a preview of these sessions and learn a bit about Michelle's career and her ERM philosophy. Let's get to it! [4:55] Interview: Michelle Dewarrat, Welcome to RIMScast! [5:01] Michelle has two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026: one on November 19th, "The Autonomous Risk Officer: How Agentic AI is Reshaping ERM," and then, on the 20th, "The Multi-function Risk Leader Round Table" with two other SERMC members. [5:29] This is not the first time Michelle is presenting at the RIMS ERM Conference. Last year, she did a panel with some of the GRC platforms. Michelle says she feels as ready as you ever are to speak publicly. [5:46] Michelle is the SVP for Risk Management at Balfour Beatty Investments. She is based in Phoenix, Arizona. She does a lot of public speaking in her role. It's how she engages in the business. She started her career in Sales and Operations. [6:24] Michelle says the culture piece and the relationship piece are key to having a successful program. Justin says he has a great respect for people who are in sales. [7:06] Michelle says there are a few different functions that report to her in the Risk Department at Balfour Beatty Investments. She has one other risk professional who works on ERM and an Operational Assurance team that does control testing and operational audits.  [7:20] Michelle says Balfour Beatty Investments is a UK publicly traded business. They are implementing Provision 29, so Michelle is working with the group on that. She also has a Quality Assurance and Quality Control (QAQC) function that reports to her. [8:01] Michelle has been with Balfour Beatty Investments for two years. They were under a monitorship as a military housing business to build out their Risk and Control Framework and build out their Risk Function. [8:21] Balfour Beatty Investments has a couple of other businesses in the U.S., mostly working in construction, buildings, and infrastructure. Most of Michelle's tenure has been focused on military housing, but they have other investments they work through with the leaders there. [8:45] Michelle says that, out of sales and operations, she moved into quality assurance and then into compliance. She did compliance for about a decade. Then she was asked to transition over to risk management. She has been solely in risk management for about eight years. [9:11] Michelle was at Insight, a technology reseller, when she moved from Compliance to Risk Management. She continued in Risk Management at CSG, her last company before Balfour Beatty Investments. [9:30] Justin says his first job was for the New York Law Journal, part of the American Lawyer Media brand.  [10:12] Michelle says she loves that ERM is never boring. You get to work with all pieces and functions of the business. You get to be brought into all different projects, especially once you've embedded and built those relationships and shown the value you bring ahead of time. [10:27] Michelle says it's also the strategy. She likes figuring out how we can drive business forward. Risk is essentially strategy. When you can build those relationships and see the business grow because of what you're doing, that's always amazing. [10:45] Justin says you've got to have patience. Michelle says she learned that over time. [11:09] Michelle says in her day, you went into Risk with the experience you brought to the table. Risk was not an option when she went to college. You have to be continuous learners in Risk. If you're not, you run into some challenges. You have to be open to new experiences. [11:40] Michelle says ERM forces you to keep learning. ERM is the risk practitioners, program experts, and framework experts, but all the business units are the subject matter experts, and ERM needs to come to their level and learn what they're doing and understand it. [11:58] Michelle says knowledge in risk is a mile wide and an inch deep. We are not experts in every part of the business; we just help facilitate it. [12:14]  Michelle says you always have new leaders coming in with different perspectives and experiences on how they interacted with Risk at previous organizations. Getting their attention is all about showing value. It needs to be a two-way street. She talks about that with her folks. [12:33] Michelle tells her people, You know the value. We've seen it as practitioners. We know what we can bring to the table. We know what has happened in the past. [12:40] Michelle says getting that seat at the table is always a challenge, and it always has been. A sales background comes in handy. You know the value, but you have to earn that trust. [12:49] You have to continue to work at it and never get complacent with where you are. New leaders come in and the dynamics change. [13:13] Michelle's approach is to get in front of new leaders as soon as possible when they start. She offers them support. The first 90 days in a new position are just a flash. You don't know where to start and who owns what. Building confidence within the risk function is helpful. [14:15] Michelle says it's always a challenge to balance new risks, whether regulatory changes or moving into new verticals. There are always challenges. Michelle says she doesn't think anyone outside of healthcare had the pandemic on their risk register. They had to adapt quickly. [14:28] Michelle says, For us, it's keeping that framework and understanding that taxonomy that we've built and then challenging it. Michelle says every one of her direct reports has a very different background than she has. [14:41] Michelle says that creating that open environment to challenge and to push back, they get to a good spot. Michelle says she opens it up to the group and they kick the ball around to figure out the best approach. [14:52] Michelle says they continue to get in front of the business. Risk isn't a once-a-year risk assessment anymore, where we raise the risk; it's operationalizing risk management and making sure that we're keeping pace with the business. [15:08] Michelle says she has four direct reports. She says we want everything perfect and want to address everything. There's always opportunity and room for growth, understanding that risk management is non-revenue generating. Risk helps generate revenue indirectly. [15:32] Risk management teams are always small but mighty. That's the importance of creating partnerships with other risk functions. Justin says, if you're not a revenue generator, you are hopefully a revenue maintainer. [15:49] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held in Columbus, Ohio, on November 19th and 20th. Our guest today, Michelle Dewarrat, has two sessions, and we hope that you can attend both. [16:04] Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026 to register. [16:09] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration is now open, and general registration will open on December 2nd. [16:27] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes. [16:40] Let's Return to Our Interview with Michelle Dewarrat! [16:45] Justin asks Michelle what it was like presenting at last year's RIMS ERM Conference in Seattle. Michelle says it was nice but rainy. She enjoyed Seattle. It was her first time going to the ERM Conference. She had been to RISKWORLD before. She has been to a lot of client conferences. [17:06] Michelle says she likes having broader conversations. She thinks the sessions are always great. It's the in-between conversations and the conversations over lunch where you get to bounce ideas and learn new strategies. [17:40] Michelle will co-present two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026 in Columbus, Ohio. One session will be on November 19th: "The Autonomous Risk Officer: How Agentic AI is Reshaping ERM." [17:50] Michelle will be joined in this session by Jason Venner of Diligent, Michael Levy of Cherry Hill Advisory, and Bobbi-Jo Pankaj of BJP Enterprise Solutions, LLC. [18:16] Michelle says Jason leads the panel. They'll be talking about the shifts in Enterprise Risk Management with Agentic AI and its impacts. Michelle says it's one of the most significant shifts in ERM that we have seen, because it changes the operating model, not just efficiency. [18:54] Michelle says that for decades, ERM has run on annual risk assessments, quarterly reporting, and reviews, whereas Agentic AI makes continuous risk management possible. It can address where signals are watched in real time. [19:!5] Workflows start the moment a threshold is crossed, and teams spend their time doing more judging rather than recording or trying to gather that information so they can focus on what really matters. [19:28] Michelle says it is a significant shift. Some guardrails need to be put up. It will allow us to move faster, keep pace with the business, and move to a more strategic Enterprise Risk Management. [19:40] Michelle says it didn't take her too long to be comfortable using AI agents. She has a son in tech, and she comes from tech. She was testing tech with some of their key partners. She was on one of the Copilot testing groups. Working in that field helped her along. [20:25] Michelle says agents can watch continuously and act in between certain checkpoints. When we're having those quarterly assessments or annual control testing, an AI agent can be running continuously in the background. [20:39] Michelle says some of the greatest opportunities for measurable value would be along the control testing piece, so they can do full population. It doesn't have to have an individual that samples it. [20:51] Michelle explains triage alerts. In the financial industry, with AML fraud, cyber, or compliance, you can set a lot of those thresholds or key risk indicators that it can triage continuously. It can continuously monitor a supply chain for a third party. [21:12] Michelle says from a legal and compliance standpoint, regulatory change mapping is huge. She thinks that will be incredibly beneficial with remediation follow-through. [21:24] Michelle says, we're such a tiny team. Once we've identified those issues, following up and making sure the business is following through can be challenging and draining. [21:34] Justin says this is one of the Advanced Sessions. It is for people who are deciding whether or not to incorporate Agentic AI into their operations and practices. [21:53] Justin asks where human judgment and oversight must remain firmly in control. Michelle says the rule of thumb is to give agents more autonomy where actions are reversible or low-impact. They require human approval as stakes rise. [22:10] Only expand autonomy when performance data supports it. Be thoughtful as you implement these programs. You still want human judgment around risk appetite, high-impact, or irreversible decisions. You don't want the AI making those calls. [22:26] Michelle says new or ambiguous risks, as a lot of emerging risks are, are probably not a place for Agentic AI. When you're thinking about ethics and accountability, you want eyes on the agent. You still need that human element. [22:43] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [23:04] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [23:19] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [23:37] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. [23:43] Let's Return to Our Interview with Michelle Dewarrat!  [23:49] On November 20th, Michelle will co-lead "Multifunctional Risk Leader Round Table: Managing Across Domains Without Losing Control," with Lauren Thibodeaux, Sr. Director, ERM at Freeport LNG, and Stephen Simpson, Risk Management at Tractor Supply Co. [24:18] Justin says this is a great roundtable. The three co-leaders are on the Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council. They help steer the content produced at RIMS geared toward ERM. They are thought leaders. Justin asks if it's nice to be a thought leader in ERM. [24:38] Michelle says it is, although she doesn't always think of herself as that. [25:03] Justin says Michelle gets to send these thoughts out to the audience at the ERM Conference, who are usually good participants. It's a niche audience. They're very passionate about the practice of ERM. They really want to do better. [25:19] Michelle loves being on the Council and working with this group. Because it is such a niche area, she loves the opportunity to be able to nerd out with other people who have the same passion. [25:36] Justin asks what the advantages are of having ERM functions under one leadership umbrella like Michelle's. Michelle says risk and compliance tends to be the land of misfit toys. When the business doesn't know what to do with something, they give it to ERM to figure out. [25:58] Michelle says that's what ERM does: they figure out new emerging risks or different things that are happening, whether it's regulatory or business changes. [26:07] Michelle says some of the drivers she's seeing currently are cost and efficiency pressure, especially as AI comes into play. It helps remove the duplicity and business fatigue. [26:22] Michelle says we also see the Board demand around a single owner. This gives one accountable owner that can explain the risk profile and link it to the strategy. That's one individual they can reach out to. [26:33] Michelle speaks of interconnected risk. Siloed functions can tend to handle cross-functional impacts poorly because they are so focused on their area they don't think of everything that's happening either downstream or in other areas of the business. [26:49] Michelle says we're seeing a lot of that come into play because businesses are moving faster, and so it's easier to identify when something goes wrong. [26:56] Michelle says advantages are having one risk picture and a common taxonomy across the board, with less duplication and assessment fatigue. [27:08] All these groups tend to go to different business heads to assess their risks around those areas. If you have one contact, it reduces fatigue and drag on the business. [27:19] Michelle mentions advantages. A faster, joined-up response. Michelle has sessions with her team where they kick around ideas, challenging each other, to get to a better solution, a stronger link to strategy, clearer accountability, and a talent path for transferable skills. [27:42] Michelle says a lot of folks in these areas are thinking about risk. How can they utilize those skills to continue to grow in their career? ERM creates a lot of talent paths for folks. [27:59] Michelle comments on conflicts of interest. It takes somebody who is self-aware. We all have bias. There are conflicts of interest everywhere. If you identify when you need to step away as a leader, you also need to create a safe environment where your team can go to the board. [28:18] Michelle says her team knows that if there's a challenge or a conflict, and they feel Michelle is not addressing it correctly, they are welcome to go to another leader. Michelle encourages it. [28:34] Justin asks about governance, reporting structures, and accountability. Michelle's rule of thumb is to combine the functions that manage risk, such as Health and Safety, Sustainability, Environmental, and Insurance, and more are all managers of risk. [28:54] Michelle says to keep the functions that give assurance on them separate if possible. Keep internal audit separate, and any of the assurance functions separate. That's not always realistic in today's world. Make sure you put walls up around those functions. [29:31] Michelle has had to hold the line quite a bit. You can negotiate with risk, but you can't negotiate with control testing and audit. It is something where you need the right leader in place and not just put all the functions together without forethought. [29:49] The roundtable will take questions from the audience. Michelle loves audience engagement. Everybody sees things differently and has different experiences. The more we can get folks to ask questions and bring their experience to the table, the more it helps all of us.  [30:04] Michelle says there are always things for her to learn. The more she can learn from others and what they're experiencing, the better. [30:32] Justin asks Michelle if she has a closing line. She says her focus is understanding what the need is, not what her need is as a salesperson. What is their need, what do they want long-term, and how are we going to meet that? [31:23] Michelle says we can assume a lot of things, but it's not always what we assume. Her closing is tying it back to what they need, helping them leave the conversation knowing that whatever their end goal is, we are a partner and we are helping them build that case. [32:29] Justin says he knew a salesman who ended every call with "I'm going to let you go. Thank you so much for your support!" Michelle says all of us, internally, want to help others reach their goals. [33:10] Michelle says she learned to smile on the phone from training at a hotel. Not only do hotels invest in training, but you have to learn to deal with people from all walks of life, every day, hundreds of them. [33:43] Michelle had her son work at hotels for a while when he was a teenager. It was a great experience. Michelle always smiles on the phone, and she says she can hear the tone through the phone. [34:09] Justin says when he smiles, he sounds so much more pleasant and authentic. Michelle says she has a poor resting face, so to avoid having people ask her if she is OK, she tends to smile a lot. [35:06] Justin asks Michelle if she could challenge risk professionals to rethink one aspect of how they approach ERM for the next three to five years; what would that challenge be? Michelle says her biggest thing is to operationalize the program. [35:19] Michelle says, for so long, we were keyboard warriors. We were intakers of information. We didn't get out into the business. We had value but did not create the value we could by operationalizing. [35:30] When Michelle hires, she looks for folks who are not keyboard warriors but want to go out and build those connections. Even if she is not working on something with them, Michelle holds one-on-ones with all parts of the organization, which continues to build the relationship. [35:48] Michelle says, once you have trust, you get candor, and you get good insight, and people aren't afraid to speak up and talk to you about what's truly going on, and you can identify those risks. Michelle's biggest thing to tell people is to operationalize. Get out there into the business. [36:21] Justin says if you will be at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026, we highly encourage you to attend Michelle's two sessions, one on the 19th and one on the 20th. The agenda is up at RIMS.org/ERM2026.  [36:32] Michelle, I am so excited to see you in a couple of weeks. By the time this episode comes out, it will be next week. I want to tell you how much I appreciate you making your RIMScast debut here with us! [36:51] Special thanks again to Michelle Dewarrat for joining us here on RIMScast. [37:54] Michelle will co-present two sessions at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. On November 19th, she will co-present "The Autonomous Risk Officer: How Agentic AI is Reshaping ERM." [37:08] On November 20th, Michelle will co-present the "Multifunctional Risk Leader Round Table: Managing Across Domains Without Losing Control." Register today at RIMS.org/ERM2026. [37:16] Check out last week's episode with RIMS ERM Conference 2026 keynote speaker Roger Spits at RIMS.org/Roger. [37:22] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [37:41] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [37:57] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [38:10] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [38:22] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration — Open for RIMS members! RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Look for coverage of RIMS Canada 2026! The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Workshops: Live Workshop, Led by RIMS President Manny Padilla | Dec. 3‒4, 2026 | St. John's University, NY Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Organization's Bottom Line" | Dec. 3, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Whatever Happened to Predictability? An Interview with Roger Spitz" (ERM 2026 Keynote) "Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume" "AI and the Future of Risk with Dan Chuparkoff" (ERM 2025 Keynote) "The Human Side of Risk with Jerome Mayne" "Solving Wicked Problems with Dr. Gav Schneider"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "Hiding in Plain Sight: The Machinery Risks You Can't Afford to Ignore" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Michelle Dewarrat, Senior Vice President, Risk Management, Balfour Beatty Investments Member, RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Management Council   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Roger Spitz on a variety of ERM and futurist topics, including his career path and the thought leadership he provides today. They discuss unpredictability, uncertainty, and why the future is not clearly seen. They discuss the importance of agility and how improv prepares for it. Roger shares his thoughts on how ERM practitioners can be ready for the unknown.   Listen for Roger's thoughts on antifragility, being anticipatory, and agility. Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by Roger Spitz, Chair of The Disruptive Futures Institute, President of Techistential, and the opening keynote speaker for the RIMS ERM Conference 2026, which will be held November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. [:48] Before we get to our interview… [:50] Webinars: On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [:59] Origami Risk will return on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December. [1:15] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments." [1:31] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at RIMS.org/webinars. [1:41] I've got a link on this episode's show notes to the virtual workshops for the RIMS-CRMP. [1:47] Special announcement: On December 3rd and 4th, 2026, from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., you can prepare for the RIMS-CRMP exam with the RIMS 2026 President, Manny Padilla, at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. [2:04] The exam application fee is included if you register for this prep course. Visit RIMS.org/Certification and the link on this episode's show notes. [2:14] The Q3 Edition of RIMS Risk Management Magazine is now available at RMMagazine.com. Check it out! [2:21] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:39] On with the Show! The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Learn more and register at RIMS.org/ERM2026. Our guest today will be kicking things off at the conference. [2:58] He is Roger Spitz, the Chair of The Disruptive Futures Institute and the President of Techistential. He joins us today to provide a preview of his keynote, "Black Swans and Golden Geese: Risks and Returns in the Era of Unpredictability." I'm stoked, and I want to get right to it! [3:18] Interview: Roger Spitz, Welcome to RIMScast! [3:44] Roger says he's probably the only futurist with a background in M&A. He started as a chartered accountant (ACA) in the UK and moved into investment banking. He was Global Head of M&A for BNP Paribas, advising boards, CEOs, and investors on acquisitions and divestments. [4:19] Roger was based in London. In 2017, the CEO asked him to rebuild the M&A Tech practice in San Francisco. He promised himself when he came here that he would go down the rabbit hole of change. [4:34]  Roger did a lot of microcourses on complexity systems, foresight, even stand-up comedy, and all kinds of things, looking at change from different vantage points. He felt futures was an interesting umbrella for that. [4:54] Roger felt that the way even the most sophisticated, well-paid business leaders think about the world as a linear, predictable, stable, controllable set of assumptions was not only wrong, but that the cost of relying on those assumptions would increase. [5:12] Roger says, after a few years, he decided to leave investment banking and spend full-time thinking about strategic foresight. He wrote a book. He set up a practice, Disruptive Futures Institute. At the time, it was esoteric to think about unpredictability, but today he's pretty busy. [5:47] Roger says that amongst the microcourses he took, one vantage point for understanding change was stand-up comedy, especially improv. He did several courses on improv to think about the surprise element and change from that perspective. It's how he got to where he is. [6:43] Justin says he did stand-up as well. He understands the rush of it, but there is spontaneity to it. He didn't do improv as a class, but he did stand-up for a year in Manhattan. In stand-up, you learn a lot about yourself and what you can endure. It's just you and the audience. [7:22] Roger says he learned about himself and his confidence. He also learned what features cause surprise, but also that with the right tools, mindset, and ways of seeing the world, there's nothing wrong with surprise and unpredictability. You can take it and run with it. It's "yes, and." [7:48] Roger says if you don't have that toolkit or operating system, improv might feel a little bit uncomfortable or surprising. Roger took improv not only to learn about himself, but also to learn what toolkits are effective in these kinds of environments that are more prone to surprise. [8:40] Roger says, once you have a certain way of seeing the world, or mindset, it's in you. You're not going to unsee it or no longer think of "yes, and," or other reflexes. It's intuitive. Some exposure to improv is a very useful tool. [9:08] Justin mentions SNL UK. Roger says he is South African, the home of Trevor Noah, but spent more than 20 years in the UK. [9:51] Justin mentions we will see Roger on November 19th, kicking things off for us in Columbus, Ohio, for the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. The keynote is titled "Black Swans and Golden Geese: Risks and Returns in the Era of Unpredictability." [10:07] Justin asks: How should risk professionals rethink the traditional relationship between risk and return when organizations are operating in conditions of deep uncertainty? [10:22] Roger mentions two aspects: One is how one thinks about deep uncertainty, and two is what that means. [10:37] Roger starts with the foundations. The 100-year-old distinction between risk and uncertainty is helpful for environments which are relatively stable and predictable. You can get a sense of the probability of risk. Uncertainty is not as well understood. [11:26] Roger says the World Uncertainty Index is through the roof since the 1900s. Uncertainty is conflated with other things and is not always clearly understood. Conventional uncertainty is that you know the possible outcomes; you're just not sure about the "probabilization." [11:49] Roger continues: Who will win the elections? Will there be a recession? You know the question. There's an answer. It's pretty straightforward. [12:01] In deep uncertainty, you don't know the potential outcomes. You don't know the probabilities. You can't put a hierarchy on them, or if you did, they wouldn't necessarily be in agreement. You're not taking into account how these possible outcomes might interact. [12:27] Roger says you're not taking into account the next-order implications, nor is there agreement or alignment on how you might mitigate them or whether they even exist. [12:39] What are the exact implications- not just geopolitical, but technology, geofinance, societal- if China becomes the number one in the world in a dominant way, which is very possible? [12:54] What happens with longevity? What is longevity? Is it 200 years? No longer diseases? No longer aging? What happens if you work and live in space? What happens with singularity diversity if it happens? Once you put all that together, think about how they might interact. [13:10] Roger says that's deeply uncertain. Therefore, we wrote a detailed paper with the Head of Foresight of AXA on the topic on Risk.Net. We're looking at something more akin to unpredictability. [13:32] Roger says unpredictability is not the same as uncertainty. If you take uncertainty in an environment that is non-linear, emergent, with unknown unknowns, you need trial and error, playbooks, predict-and-act modeling; you don't have a known answer. [14:05] That is very different from the predict-and-act frameworks and modeling that a lot of the risk and return industry relies on. Not only is unpredictability a key feature of that, but the outcomes can be disproportionate, both for risk and returns. [14:31] Putting all that together, Roger says the most important thing is that you need to shift the mindset from a risk "probabilization" or return calculation to outcomes. What are the potential outcomes in terms of magnitude? [14:48] How do we think about what can lead to either breakdown or breakthroughs? What are the features that might make these outcomes potentially very sizable and that might be breakdowns or breakthroughs? [15:07] That's not the same as conventional predict-and-act modeling. It's not the same as scenario analysis, where you ask "what if something" and you have two edge cases. [15:19] Roger says my thesis is that what we're talking about is a constant environment, not a few edge cases or exceptions you need to think about the "what if" for. You don't really know. It's a constant. It's systemic. And therefore, it's business as usual, as opposed to an edge case. [15:40] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held in Columbus, Ohio on November 19th and 20th. Our guest today, Roger Spitz, is the keynote. We can't wait to see you there! [15:55] Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026 to register. [15:59] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd. [16:18] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes. [16:31] Let's Return to Our Interview with ERM Conference 2026 Keynote Roger Spitz! [16:39] Justin asks about Roger's Triple-A Framework: Anti-fragile, Anticipatory, and Agility. [17:00] Roger says we're in environments that are predominantly unpredictable, where rare is no longer rare and unprecedented is happening too often. We're saying it's nonlinear, so there can be extreme or very significant outcomes, both positive and negative. It's not necessarily a risk. [17:28] Roger says that predict-and-act has limitations. What do you do about it? [17:34] Roger says it means, first of all, you don't want to rely too much on your predictive powers, what comes out of the model. It's unpredictable. You need environments that are very resilient. [18:15] The first A, Antifragility, borrowed from Nassim Nicholas Taleb, is a form of resilience. Resilience is like a rubber band: you can punch it around; it doesn't change shape; it doesn't break, but it hasn't necessarily changed or improved. [18:33] Antifragility is resilience-plus. Not only will it be resilient and robust, but it actually benefits from shocks. Have foundations that are anti-fragile, or resilience-plus. [18:51] The second A of Triple-A is to be Anticipatory. That doesn't mean in a predictive way, but more in a scenario way. Think: What if this continued? What are the next-order implications? How are things that may seem unrelated connected? [19:09] Roger says, let's take interest rates. Yellen was the first to admit, of the Central Banks,  everybody was in the same boat. She basically didn't realize that interest rates would be the highest they had been for half a century, thought they could control it, and they couldn't. [19:21] It's the cost of relying upon an assumption. They weren't anticipatory. They relied on what came out of the model. The problem is when you make assumptions, to the exclusion of anything else. [19:44] Being anticipatory is not trying to make a bet on a specific outcome. It's saying we need different scenarios and possibilities to build our muscle for managing surprise, not because we believe that one of those scenarios will materialize. [20:02] Continuing with interest rates as an analogy, you see that the Fed from Cleveland, a few years ago, after realizing how impossible it is to predict these things, started thinking more in terms of scenarios than relying on specific outcomes. [20:21] Kevin Warsh, the current Fed Chairman, is reluctant to give the markets an outlook. [20:36] This idea of being anticipatory is moving away from prediction but still thinking of what may arise next. What different possibilities might emerge, and how best to prepare for them? [20:49] You have an anti-fragile foundation, you're being anticipatory, and then you need to live in the here and now, every day, where surprises happen. The decision windows are closing. Things happen all the time. They can happen fast. [21:08] The third A is Agility: the agility to emerge with decisions in the here and now, without necessarily having a playbook, or right answer, or something that's knowable. [21:20] Justin comments that hearkens back to the improv discussed earlier. Roger agrees 100%. [21:30] Roger says a lot of people are familiar with elements of these three "A"s. Whatever you call them, it's the fundamentals. They treat them as "either-or"s. [21:43] Even in the Futures and Foresight field, you have people who say scenarios are useless; you don't know the future; it's too far away. Everything is emergent. Or people say you rely on scenarios, but you live in the here-and-now, and there's a disconnect. [21:57] Roger says the Triple-A Framework is important because it is the reflexes of improv, and you need that agility. It's not to the exclusion of thinking about the longer term and what might happen in the different scenarios because you're preparing a broader subset of eventualities. [22:21] When emergencies happen for which you need that improv toolkit, that subset is smaller because you have a resilient foundation and you've thought about a few things beforehand that may happen. [22:32] Justin says, "Some of our Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council members have written or spoken on scenario planning and strategic risk management in this context. It sounds like your ideas are going to resonate with them. And they may agree or disagree." [22:51] Justin says that part remains to be seen until November 19th at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. You're bringing concepts that they're already familiar with to the table and presenting them with a twist, which I think will be fascinating to hear. [23:05] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [23:24] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [23:39] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [23:57] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [23:33] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS ERM Conference 2026 Keynote Roger Spitz!  [24:34] Justin asks about Artificial Intelligence, and where Roger sees AI improving risk management. Roger says it's important to know: where does AI sit in the value chain of decision-making? Where can it be helpful or not helpful? [25:03] Roger says AI is very good at pattern recognition at scale. It's probabilistic. It's everything we know. Linear environments, with known unknowns, where you can rely on experts and where there's a range of answers, are predictable environments that are AI's sweet spot. [25:54] Roger says those environments are what we call complicated. [26:02] Roger says a lot of environments are complex in that they are nonlinear, asymmetric, there may not be a range of right answers at that time, they are emergent, and they are trial and error. [26:21] Complicated environments are like a puzzle. The more pieces you have to the puzzle, you know the answer. You look at the cover, done. You have your one-trillion-piece puzzle for your AI. [26:30] Complex environments are like a mystery. They're dynamic. Drivers that are constantly in flux, interacting, cascading, and creating different things. They are not as predictable. AI is very helpful in environments that display features of predictability. [27:02] Roger says even AI can't predict the unpredictable. It's important to have that distinction in mind. Some of our most complex societal challenges, how the different elements of deep uncertainty interact; not all of them are knowable at this stage. [27:25] Roger says that when you put all those together, then AI will not do a better job than humans because they are probabilistic and there's no data on the future. [27:42] Roger says the benefit of AI for decision-making is an environment that displays that degree of predictability, where data helps. [27:49] The danger of delegating decision-making to machines in complex environments, in which they don't do a better job than humans, is that humans are de-skilling, by virtue of delegating to machines. You're becoming less versatile in practicing your critical thinking, judgment, etc. [28:09] Roger says, as machines are becoming more human-like, the existential risk is that humans are becoming more machine-like. That's how Roger would frame whether AI is relevant or not. [28:24] Justin says that when he tried to help her daughter with an answer to a Social Studies question, and he wrote it out, she rejected it because she said it looked like AI wrote it. He wasn't trying to replicate AI. [29:10] Justin comments on interconnectedness in enterprise risk management. This is also something that the SERMC has written on. It's something our members grapple with every day. Small organization or large, one thing will affect the next. [29:40] Justin asks, when you have interconnected risks, from geopolitical instability, to cyber, to climate, to supply chain, how should risk professionals be approaching them now? [29:54] Roger thinks it's helpful to understand the dimensions of the systemic disruption or metaruption. Metaruptions are provocations to metatrends. [30:11] Roger says that with trends, you're relying on the past, you're not taking the next-order implications, and you're not thinking about how they interact, etc. Roger thinks uncertainty is compounding, so we need to think about the dimensions of metaruptions. [30:28] Why is it compounding? What do you do about it? That's linked to why it's compounding. The features or dimensions of metaruptions are: Simultaneous multi-domains that are interacting and that are systemic and entangled, causing deep uncertainty or unpredictability. [31:04] The shape is nonlinear. Besides the disproportionate input-output equation, it is also threshold-driven. You can have tipping points and irreversibility. That's important when thinking about climate, AI, and technology. [31:20] It's not the same saying that something is exponential, as to having a tipping point. Tipping points can work both ways, good ideas or not. [31:34] Roger says that irreversibility is where the anticipatory comes in. Even if things are unpredictable, you need to think about them. [31:43] Roger says the conditions are entanglement-systemic; the shape is nonlinear. Roger speaks of the propagation of change. You have real-time contagion and an inverse relationship between interdependence and how much slack there is. [32:02] You have tight coupling, with dense dependencies, thin buffers, limited redundancy, and single points of failure that can cascade. The pace is very fast. It's accelerating. That pace means compressed decision times. [32:25] The outcomes are not just going to happen. They're not deterministic. They partly depend on how you see the world, how you prepare, and how you respond. What do you do about this? You change how you see the world, how you prepare, and how you respond. [32:46] Roger shares an example. You might have seen in France that there was refrigeration for hundreds of supermarkets. Hackers got in, changed the thermostats to 50 Celsius, and there were tens and tens of millions of dollars in damages to frozen goods from it, across hundreds of stores. [33:27] This example happened just a few days ago. It got global coverage because it has very significant food security implications. It's happening more and more, but why? It's linked to AI. Previously, doing this kind of damage would be a needle in a haystack; with AI, it's like radar. [33:57] It's an attractor for single points of failure. You can use AI to find a single point of failure in utilities, healthcare, etc. In this case, it was certain control systems that set the refrigeration temperature. It could be much more significant and much more systemic. That is easy to find. [34:16] Those attractors for single points of failure have tight coupling, no redundancy, no buffers, and no slack. Roger says the answer is to see the world and understand how serious single points of failure are. Why you need to be resilient is to avoid single points of failure. [34:51] That's where the resilience-plus of antifragility comes in. You need to be anticipatory and think about the next-order implications. What could happen if you could no longer move water from the mountains in California to L.A.? It would take three weeks to run out of water. [35:30] Roger says you need resilience in systems because it's so easy to find single points of failure, vulnerabilities, and weaknesses. Because they're non-linear and tight-coupling, they can cascade quickly and with significant impact. [35:47] You need to be anticipatory in terms of what that means, and you need the agility to react as they happen. [35:54] Unless people see the world differently with these different dynamics, prepare differently in terms of what it means, and then respond with agility for when things happen, there is more and more scope for challenges and opportunities with these kinds of dynamics. [36:17] Justin asks if all futurists think this way. Roger says, among the general public, and even some futurists, a lot of people still feel like they are able to predict the future and rely on a lot of trends and forecasts. If anyone tells you they can predict the future, run a million miles away! [36:47] Roger would say that most professionally trained, serious futurists would think in terms of dimensions, being systemic, and other things. [36:56] Roger's contribution is that he has focused a lot on considering our environment to be structurally unpredictable, which has ramifications that go beyond certain things we might use as business as usual. [37:16] Also, the Triple-A in its own right brings in a number of things that are not just futuristic thinking or strategic foresight. Antifragility or resilience is not necessarily a foresight tool. Agility is not necessarily a foresight tool, which is more about long-term thinking scenarios. [37:36] Roger wrote a paper on this: When the future is today, with the features we're talking about, we need to reframe the tidy dichotomies of futurists, which are putting things cleanly in a box, separating the future from the present, and the likely from the less likely. [37:54] Some of these tidy dichotomies that the futurist field relies on also have their own provocations. [38:03] Justin reminds listeners that Roger will be kicking off the RIMS ERM Conference on November 19th at 9:00 a.m., and that it goes until 10:15. Roger says there will be at least 15 minutes for a Q&A slot in a fun, interactive way. [38:31] Roger is otherwise always contactable for anyone who attends. There are further ways to engage over time. [38:41] Special thanks again to Roger Spitz for joining us here on RIMScast. [38:45] A link to DisruptiveFutures.org is in this episode's show notes, as is a link to his Risk.net paper, "The Future of Risk and Insurability in the Era of Systemic Disruption, Unpredictability, and Artificial Intelligence." [39:01] Of course, we look forward to his Keynote at the RIMS ERM Conference 2026. Learn more and register now at RIMS.org/ERM2026. [39:13] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [39:30] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [39:47] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [40:01] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [40:13] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Look for coverage of RIMS Canada 2026! The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] "The Future of Risk and Insurability In The Era of Systemic Disruption, Unpredictability and Artificial Intelligence", co-authored by Roger Spitz disruptivefutures.org   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Workshops: Live Workshop, Led by RIMS President Manny Padilla | Dec. 3‒4, 2026 | St. John's University, NY Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Organization's Bottom Line" | Dec. 3, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume" "AI and the Future of Risk with Dan Chuparkoff" (ERM 2025 Keynote) "The Human Side of Risk with Jerome Mayne" "Solving Wicked Problems with Dr. Gav Schneider"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "Hiding in Plain Sight: The Machinery Risks You Can't Afford to Ignore"| Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Roger Spitz, Chair, Disruptive Futures Institute; President, Techistential RIMS 2026 ERM Conference Keynote   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Amy C. Waninger, CEO of Lead at Any Level, about her more than a decade in the insurance industry and then moving into leadership development and consulting. They discuss what makes someone effective at leading through uncertainty. Amy explains what "leading at any level" looks like for someone who doesn't have a leadership title. She delves into navigating change, networking, leadership, and cultivating the talents you choose so you can bring forward the best value you have to offer to others.   Amy talks about the human side of change and how to adapt to it internally before leading others through it. Amy tells about her experience as the closing keynote at the RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026.   Listen for Amy Waninger's advice for one practical way you can start building a stronger and more intentional professional network. Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Amy Waninger. She was a keynote speaker at the RIMS Texas Regional 2026, and she is here to discuss how networking can provide a path to leadership and opportunities in the risk management profession. Before we get to our interview… [:51] Webinars: On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [:59] Origami Risk returns on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December. [1:15] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments." [1:31] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at RIMS.org/webinars. [1:41] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [1:58] On with the Show! Amy C. Waninger is the author of Moving from Panic to Purpose: Surviving and Thriving During Unrelenting Change at Work, and she was the closing keynote for the RIMS Texas Regional 2026. [2:13] In this episode, we discuss how risk professionals at all levels can access frameworks that they can use, and the confidence to lead through whatever comes next. [2:28] Since Amy was an insurance professional for 10 years, she has unique insight into what many of you are going through right now. We'll talk panic, purpose, networking, and leadership today. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get started! [2:44] Interview! Amy C. Waninger, Welcome to RIMScast! [3:00] Justin says it's a cool opportunity to have Amy on the podcast, as this is the unofficial Networking Month in the U.S. [3:36] Justin notes that Amy is a former insurance industry professional. She calls herself a recovering insurance nerd. [3:53] Amy had an IT career first. In her career in information technology and software development, she was in a consulting role for a major insurance carrier for a couple of years. She transitioned into management at that carrier. She was there for almost 10 years. [4:19] Amy worked in Business Systems and IT Systems across Claims, Underwriting, Analytics, and Actuarial, in both Personal and Commercial lines. She has had exposure to a lot of things. She has a CPCU and "a whole bunch of other letters" after her name in that space. [4:58] Amy had been working for a very small consulting firm. It was a good insurance year, and Amy joined the insurance company for the bonuses. Then she fell in love with the industry. [5:29] Amy says when she worked for a major carrier, it was the first time she got real training on what to do as a leader in an organization. Up to that point, she had been reading books and cobbling together her own leadership philosophy. [5:47] Amy says that seeing that there was good training available to leaders in big organizations was eye-opening to her. That's a big part of why Amy started her own leadership development company. [6:00] Amy realized that she had been missing out on this information about a cohesive leadership narrative in her career up to that point. [6:28] Amy says starting a company takes more savings than you think it will. It takes more sales training than you think it will. And it takes a little more stupidity than you want to admit to. But she wouldn't change it for the world. She says she hopes she learns from her mistakes. [6:50] Amy says entrepreneurship is a big cycle of "try it, fail, try something else." [7:13] Justin asks what makes someone effective at leading through uncertainty. Amy says, one, being able to couch the change in a larger story that makes sense to people is really important as a leader in change. [7:26] Amy says, explain here's why this is happening. Here's what it means for us. Here's the opportunity, and here's what it could look like on the other side if we get this right. [7:41] Amy says from a personal navigation standpoint, leaders need to get their own oxygen flowing before they can help someone else. That is to find a way to respond that is authentic and values-driven, as opposed to reacting from a place of fear. [8:07] Amy says once people figure out what matters to them most in the change and align their activities and intentions toward what matters to them, then they can start to help others through it. [8:40] Justin asks what leading at any level looks like for someone who is not in a leadership role in their organization. Amy says she believes that your title does not make you a leader, and you need to lead first. [8:56] Leadership starts with knowing who you are and what you have to offer, and then pulling that forward at every opportunity so that you are maximizing your value to others, but also building confidence in yourself. [9:12] Leadership is about seeing an opportunity for what's needed and stepping into that fully, sometimes asking for permission, sometimes asking for forgiveness, depending on your environment. [9:25] Amy says leadership is stepping into those white spaces where there's a gap and saying I can take this; I can run with this. This is what I can contribute in this moment. That can happen for anybody, no matter where they sit. [9:39] Amy says she was doing this as an intern, seeing opportunities and stepping up, and speaking up when she saw something that needed a change or attention. [9:48] Every one of those moments becomes a defining moment in your career when people see your potential and what you have to offer and say Let's give them more opportunity for more white space so that they can make more of a difference. [10:05] Justin says if you stay at a position or a place long enough, usually you can show your worth, and somebody will give you that opportunity, and more than once. [10:27] Amy worked in insurance from 2008 to 2019. She was familiar with RIMS, but she was on the IT side, so the education and community she sought out was different from RIMS because she wasn't in risk management, per se. [10:56] Amy understood the relationship of RIMS to the insurance industry and the evolution of RIMS over time. The risk management role started as the person who buys insurance, and now it's everything from insurance to bonding to cybersecurity and global market forces. [11:21] Amy says It's fascinating to see the evolution of this role over time. [11:40] Justin asks Amy what her reaction was to the Texas Regional 2026. The first thing Amy noticed was how many sponsors there were. She says, You know it's going to be a good conference if your sponsors are there, engaged, and excited to be there. [11:58] Amy says sponsors are how you get the open bar and the good food. Everything follows from drawing in those sponsors. Most of the problems people have in that room can be solved by going and walking the vendor hall. [12:20] Amy says she attends the same speaker conference every year. This year, she chose to skip some of the educational programming and just go talk to the vendors and sponsors there, to find out what problems they are solving that she may not even know she has. [12:50] That was as educational to Amy as some of the sessions she missed. She encourages people to do that at a conference. A lot of times, people try not to make eye contact and run through that space. That's a huge mistake. You don't know what solutions are available to you. [13:09] Amy says the first thing she noticed at the Texas Regional 2026 was the sponsor turnout, and the sponsor engagement and enthusiasm. [13:16] Amy says the other thing that he noticed was that people tended to talk with the people they came with. It's important to break up those cliques. Make a game of not talking to each other until dinner, and then meeting up and talking about who you met and what you learned. [13:44] Another game Amy likes to play, if she's there with somebody who is also an introvert like Amy, is to learn as much as she can about that person and their work, and make a game of introducing them to people, so the spotlight's not on her. [14:16] Amy says another game she plays at conferences is to attach herself to an extrovert, and let them introduce her to everybody. All of the pressure is off. Amy says it's good to team up. If she gamifies a conference, she's in good shape. [14:47] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [15:10] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd. [15:28] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes. [15:41] Let's Return to Our Interview with Amy Waninger! [15:48] Amy's keynote was "Moving from Panic to Purpose: Responding to Changes in Your Career." She shared three messages to take away: [16:08] 1. If you're overwhelmed by change, you're not alone. Your community is in this room to help you. Make connections here so when you leave here, you don't feel alone. [16:21] 2. Responding to change is not just a risk management activity. It's an intensely personal, emotional, and physiological activity. If we don't deal with the change inside us, it manifests itself in ways that affect our health and our relationships. We need to do that work.  [16:56] 3. If you understand why a change impacts you, feels emotional, and feels personal, unpack that and find out what matters most to you; that's going to keep you on target and keep you on a healthy path. [17:22] People coming up to Amy after a keynote to talk about it is deep talk, not small talk. Please come talk to her. Starting a conversation is hard for Amy, but if somebody comes up to her and wants to talk, she will talk all day long. She loves that connection. [17:51] What Amy misses in small talk is connection. What Amy wants to know is what someone's struggle is and what they are excited about. Who do you want to meet here? What's the problem you are trying to solve? It's hard to get there from small talk. [18:24] There were people who came up after Amy's keynote, when she was doing a book signing, and they dove into conversations. One gentleman said My wife needs your book because she's dealing with a lot of this right now. [18:43] Amy says she will have people who have been pushing the emotion of the change down for so long that it's like a dam breaks, and they will come up and hug Amy and cry. They'd never given themselves permission to name their grief, their fear, or their anxiety. [18:59] Amy says, once we name it, the power of that feeling is gone. [19:08] Amy gets IT questions from her family only. When Amy left tech in 2019, the new thing was Big Data. No one was talking about AI. All of her tech knowledge is obsolete now. She's fine with that. [20:04] Justin asks about networking. Amy asks Justin, You know a lot, but do you know everything? Do you have time to learn everything?  When you need to go deep, you need somebody else because you can't be an expert in everything you could possibly need to know. [20:27] Amy says that makes networking a leadership skill. There is not just knowledge we can search for, but institutional knowledge, historical context, and fixations on stuff we don't care about but that someday we will need to know. You need people for that. You can't know all of it. [20:49] Amy says, more than that, it's about the different perspectives you get when you talk to people, and specifically, to people who are nothing like you, and build those relationships. [21:02] The more you can talk to people in other departments, with different educational backgrounds, across a wide variety of demographics, you're going to get different perspectives than you can bring to a moment yourself. [21:18] Amy says being able to draw upon, recollect, and interact with all of those different perspectives gives you a better basis for decision-making. Leaders make decisions that affect others. [21:33] Justin shares that with his children, 13 and 9, he knows nothing but is expected to know everything. He's supposed to know how to fix the circuit breaker box, but he knows nothing about what it's like to be a middle schooler, as far as his children believe. [22:19] One More Quick Break! We've got to talk about the Spencer Educational Foundation and scholarship application deadlines. Applications are open for undergraduate scholarships, and they will close on January 15th, 2027. Scholarship awardees will be notified around May 21st. [22:39] Full-time Master's scholarships will also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027, and awardees will be notified around May 21st. Part-time Master's scholarships will also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027, and awardees will be notified around May 21st. [22:58] Pre-dissertation Ph.D. candidates, doctoral candidates, and pre-instructor of practice scholarships may begin applying on December 1st, 2026. The deadline is March 1st, 2027, and awardees will be notified around May 21st. [23:15] In addition to the general Spencer scholarships, all students who apply for a Spencer scholarship will automatically be considered for one of the many named scholarship awards. For more information, check out Spencered.org/scholarships and the link in the show notes. [23:33] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with Amy Waninger!  [23:41] Justin asks how Amy made the leap from her career in insurance to public speaking. Amy says that at the time, she really wanted to be in the Diversity and Inclusion space. Her original career ambition was to work as a civil rights attorney. [24:09] Later, Amy learned how much law school would cost and what pro bono meant. Then she went back and got an IT degree. She didn't have the luxury of taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. [24:29] Amy says originally her goal was that she wanted to go help people find and get access to the opportunity that they deserve. Then she took a 20-year detour of getting paid to do work. When the carrier she was working for hired a Chief Diversity Officer, she wanted to get there. [24:59] Amy couldn't find a path to Diversity. But when she looked into what that was, and the leadership philosophy she had cultivated, she saw an intersection. [25:24] Amy says people who go to school for risk management, actuarial, IT, and accounting don't go to school to learn how to deal with people. They go to school to work with numbers, computers, formulas, and spreadsheets. [25:43] Then, if they're really good at those jobs, they get promoted into roles where they have to care about what other people feel,  think, want, and need. They have to understand someone else's experience in order to motivate them, coach them, and lead them. [26:05] Amy says ultimately, that intersection is where her work lives now. She left the industry to do this after she found some really unique approaches to leading in those kinds of spaces that she felt others could benefit from. [26:28] One of those approaches is her networking model. Another is her model for responsiveness to change. Amy realized she could help so many more people if she was out there doing this kind of work, not speaking to a team of 10 or 30, but to a room of hundreds. [26:45] Amy says if she could publish a book, that could go places she could never get to; those are the things she wanted. That's where that pull began. What kind of impact could she have if she could write and speak on a national stage? Now her work has gone global. [27:30] Justin asks Amy what took her from writing a book to speaking on stage. Amy says she went to conferences where she saw the best and worst of both worlds. One was people who had dynamic stage presence, but who were regurgitating books she had already read. [27:56] Amy says she saw people who had incredible content, but had delivery that made you really not care. [28:03] Amy thought, if she could get the best of both of those: be a dynamic presenter who can engage an audience, and come in with some creative, new, compelling content, that's what she wanted to be in that space. She looked until she found people who were doing that consistently. [28:26] Amy became a member of the National Speakers Association, pitched to her first conference, just knowing the problem she wanted to solve. The content she created for that conference became her first book. [28:43] Amy learned to pitch to conferences. In her first year, while she was still full-time employed, she spoke at 35 conferences, virtually or in person. The next year, she had 45 lined up. She said, OK, this is where she wants to be, so she decided to go out on her own. [29:07] Amy had done Toastmasters in the past. Many jobs ago, at a very small company, Amy started a Toastmasters chapter because she could see the power in being a leader who could engage an audience. It was an important skill for her if she were to continue in leadership. [29:39] Amy was in speech contests in fifth grade. She has never been afraid of being up in front of people. If she had had talent for those things, she might have been an actor or a Broadway singer. [30:08] She didn't have Broadway talent, but she can get up in front of people and be herself and tell stories that people can connect to and pull them in in a way that makes them feel they got something valuable out of the time. [30:24] Amy is not the motivational speaker who makes you feel good at the time, but you walk away wondering what she said. Amy goes in, tells you a story, and tells you how to apply it in your life with a five-point framework, and you come out with notes and a new way of thinking. [30:52] Amy says there are a lot of different kinds of speakers and there's a place for all of them. She feels so fortunate to be the kind of speaker that she is, and to do it with a RIMS audience in Texas. That was amazing. Justin says we got some great feedback about that. [31:12] Justin says Toastmasters was excellent. But then COVID happened, and he stopped. Justin has never been afraid of an audience. Justin recommends doing stand-up comedy for building up your confidence. You have no shield except for a microphone stand and a stool. [31:40] Justin did stand-up comedy for a year. Then a real work opportunity came up, and he couldn't sustain the stand-up anymore. He says, do stand-up three times. If you don't like it after that, you've done it. If you like it, you keep going and build those skills and confidence. [32:16] Justin says that, at the same time, he was working weekends providing entertainment at karaoke parties. That was his preparation for this sort of format, where he is a show host. You take those skills that you don't realize are building toward something else. [32:55] Amy read Steve Martin's autobiography a few years ago. When he was young, a mentor told him, "You'll use everything you've ever done." Amy loves that. You're going to pull from every experience you've ever had for whatever's next, and it looks linear in reverse. [33:16] It looks like all the blocks were there to build this thing that you could never foresee in the beginning. The other side is, you can't draw upon skills you've never developed. To Amy, the thought of stand-up is terrifying because she never developed that skill. [33:45] Amy says getting up in front of 700 people to deliver a keynote, talk about her book, and tell a deeply personal story about postpartum depression or losing her job a dozen times, or whatever, doesn't bother her at all. That kind of vulnerability she can do. Jokes, on purpose, no. [34:10] Amy says she uses a lot of humor in her keynotes and workshops, and people say she's funny, but it's an authentic kind of funny. It's not a manufactured "I wrote these jokes" kind of funny. [14:33] Justin says he sneaks in some ridiculous Dad jokes just to keep people interested. [34:45] Amy says it's about what skills you want to cultivate, and what you have in your toolbox that you can draw on later. [35:23] Justin asks Amy about networking. Amy has a book, Network Beyond Bias, and there is a lot in there, but knowing who you are is the start of it. If you were to be the most you that you can be, what would the value be to others? Bring that forward intentionally. It's so important. [35:53] When Amy first started doing this, she thought her value to others was that she could connect people to each other, to ideas, and to resources. She led with that, and it worked really well. [36:08] Over nine years, Amy has learned that the best thing she can bring forward is really seeing other people and helping them feel seen. She can do that from the stage, one-on-one, in coaching, and in different environments. [36:27] She has been intentional about building that skill. It's also intrinsic to who she is. She really does see people, see what they're going through, and see through their struggle, and can hold space for them for just a moment and make them feel safe. [36:46] Amy says everybody's thing is different and it's not one thing; it's a basket of them. If you know what that is, it helps you walk into a space more confidently. It helps the right people find you. It helps you find the right people. [37:04] Amy says it helps you get to a place where you want to go even if you don't have a destination in mind. [37:13] Justin says that's a great sentiment to leave us with today. Amy, it has been such a pleasure to reconnect with you. I look forward to seeing you on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for your time. It's been wonderful. [37:31] Special thanks again to Amy Waninger for joining us here on RIMScast. Learn more about her and her networking and leadership philosophies at LeadatAnyLevel.com. Remember to use the tips you heard today at your next networking event or RIMS conference. [37:51] Remember the RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held in Columbus, Ohio, November 19th and 20th. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026 for more information and do register!. [38:03] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [38:20] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [38:27] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [38:31] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [39:03] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Look for coverage of RIMS Canada 2026! 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RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] https://www.leadatanylevel.com/   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Financing: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Organization's Bottom Line" | Dec. 3, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Broadcasting and Building Bridges with Mark Romig" "The Human Side of Risk with Jerome Mayne" "Reputation and Defense with Jeff McKissack"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) 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RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Amy C. Waninger, CEO, Lead at Any Level Author, Moving from Panic to Purpose   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander, Canadian Joint Forces Command, about similarities between the Armed Forces and risk managers, what the Canadian Armed Forces have taught him about uncertainty, gathering as much information as needed, and making the good enough decision. Gen. Molstad describes what qualities are needed in a leader or a risk manager. The discussion includes making decisions objectively, not emotionally, and the OODA Loop. They discuss the interconnectedness of risks, including geopolitical scenarios. Listen for Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad's insight into three characteristics a good leader needs to have.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. I am interviewing Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander of the Canadian Joint Forces Command. We will talk about strategic and split-decision risk-making ahead of his Keynote at the RIMS Canada Conference on October 19th. But first… [:52] Webinars: On Oct. 22nd, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders." [1:03] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [1:10] Origami Risk returns on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December. [1:26] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On November 10th, we will host a session about the "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: an update on Federal Developments." [1:42] On December 3rd, we've got "Third-Party Litigation Funding: What Nuclear and Other Verdicts Mean for the Industry and Your Bottom Line." Find all webinars at RIMS.org/webinars. [1:52] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:10] On with the Show! If you follow RIMScast Canada, you may recognize this interview. It's available at RIMS.org/Canada, but I was so happy with the final product that I decided to take the audio and deliver it to the world via RIMScast. [2:28] Our guest is Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander of the Canadian Joint Forces Command. Gen. Molstad joined the Canadian Armed Forces more than 30 years ago, and he has completed operational tours in Bagotville, Cold Lake, and Beaufort, South Carolina. [2:45] Gen. Molstad has commanded at the Squadron Air Task Force and Wing Levels. He conducted extensive post-9/11 alert duties across Canada and has deployed on operations in Asia, Iceland, Romania, and the Middle East. [2:59] Gen. Molstad has served in senior exec. roles, including Special Advisor to the Minister of National Defense, Director General in the Strategic Joint Staff, and Chief of Force Development. [3:11] On Mon., Oct. 19th, at 9:00 a.m., Gen. Molstad will kick off the RIMS Canada Conference 2026 with a fireside chat. We'll learn about his career, how risk management played a role, and the wisdom and knowledge that he imparts to risk managers and business professionals. [3:20] We'll learn about his career, how risk management has played a role, the sort of wisdom and knowledge that he imparts to corporate risk managers and business professionals, and get a preview of the sorts of risk philosophies that he'll share at the RIMS Canada Conference, 2026. [3:40] If you're on the fence about attending, we hope this interview will give you the extra incentive you need to register at RIMSCanadaConference.ca. I'm so proud to present this interview! [3:52] Interview! Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Welcome to RIMScast! [3:58] Justin mentions the crossover between the armed services and risk management. They make strategic decisions and split-second decisions. There's the long view and the short view. Gen. Molstad says our day-to-day in the military is all about risk management. [4:16] Gen. Molstad says it's about mitigating risk to the extent possible, accepting a certain amount of risk, understanding what the ramifications are in accepting those risks, and how you deal if something happens, ensuring you arrive at your objectives, through risk management. [4:44] Justin asks about Gen. Molstad's comfort with uncertainty being inevitable. Gen. Molstad says you learn to get comfortable with it over time. Gen. Molstad joined the Canadian Armed Forces not to be a three-star general and a strategic leader but to be a fighter pilot. [5:03] Gen. Molstad found himself being promoted over the years into these positions of leadership where risk management was his bread and butter. As a commander and as a business leader, it is your responsibility to manage that risk and understand it. [5:19] Uncertainty is not the exception; it's the norm. We have to be comfortable in that uncertain space. We have to understand what information we are seeking.  [5:30] We have a bias toward accessing information that's simply available to us and is easy to get, rather than the information we need to make the best decision. We have to make decisions without the full amount of information. [5:45]  We say in the military, perfect is the enemy of good enough. A good enough decision faster, with the ability to adapt in an agile manner, is in many ways better than the perfect decision that takes forever to get to. You'll never get to that perfect decision. [6:04] Justin asks: How do you build an organization that is prepared for the unexpected without trying to prepare for every possible scenario? [6:17] Gen. Molstad says the military approach is to look at scenarios. The two most important scenarios the military considers are the most likely course of action and the most dangerous course of action. They will look at other subscenarios. [6:38] Gen. Molstad says that when he was a fighter pilot and was leading large force employment missions, and he was briefing 100 different formation members the next day, he woke up in the night thinking about a contingency that he had never thought of.  [6:53] Then he wrote down a few notes about what he would do in that contingency, in order to brief the formation to execute the mission successfully. [7:02] Gen. Molstad says the best plans rarely survive contact with the enemy (and your competitors). You can build the best plan in the world, but it's likely never going to be executed as you planned, so you have to have a level of agility built into your system to be able to adapt. [7:19] Gen. Molstad says that comes with two things. One is experience. The more experienced the leader you are, the more situations you've seen; you've got a repository of scenarios you can draw back into to determine what's the best course of action very quickly. [7:37] Gen. Molstad says there's another aspect that's not well-studied: fluid intelligence, or the ability to take an abstract situation you've never seen, and process this complex set of information to come to an abstract idea of the best course of action. [7:59] It's a combination of experience and fluid intelligence. When people talk about intuition, it's just a fancy word for experience. Intuition is drawing on your previous experience. [8:14] It's a combination of things: perfect is the enemy of good enough, and we've got to be ready to adapt with the good, rough decisions. [8:25] Gen. Molstad is looking forward to that fireside chat. One Important thing, thinking about risk management, is that we have to think about it from the bigger picture. Many times, people look at the nearest alligator to the boat, the immediate crisis. There's always a bigger picture. [8:52] Gen. Molstad says in the military we have different levels of operations: the tactical level where the engagement happens, the operational level with Army, Navy, and Air Force working together, and the strategic and political levels where there's a bigger picture to all of it. [9:12] Gen. Molstad says there's a tendency to react quickly to immediate risks and urgencies. You cannot become a heat seeker in a room full of candles without thinking about how that impacts everything else. State actors, in world political situations, are playing 3D chess. [9:41] Gen. Molstad says many activities are linked. Countries approach things from a whole-society approach where all instruments of national power are being used in concert with each other, and complementary to each other. [9:55] Gen. Molstad says it's the same thing in the corporate world. In many cases, risks are related to other risks and opportunities. We have to be able to take a step back and see what the bigger picture is. [10:08] Justin refers to interconnected risks. Gen. Molstad says they are interconnected, and these are complex problems. There are no easy solutions. Whatever solutions you develop are probably not going to be perfect solutions. [10:31] You have to build resilience and agility into your organization to react quickly. It's very important to challenge your assumptions. We have to do that constantly. Our assumptions can change gradually and insidiously. Follow a rigorous cycle of reassessing your assumptions. [11:00] Some assumptions change drastically. Think of the geopolitical assumptions that have been made in the last couple of years. [11:08] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [11:28] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd. [11:46] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes. [11:59] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad! [12:07] Gen. Molstad will have his 30th anniversary in the Canadian Armed Forces in December. He says it's an honor to serve, and it has been an incredible career. [12:27] Gen. Molstad is in a position, as one of 12 three-star generals in the Canadian Armed Forces, to help advance and use the investments the government is making in the Canadian Armed Forces to give our military the tools they need to deter, defend, and defeat, if required. [12:52] Gen. Molstad says the level of geopolitical risk is higher than he has ever seen in his career and in his lifetime. We need to be prepared for that. [13:01] Gen. Molstad started as a fighter pilot, and now he's flying a desk. It's a really high-performance desk! [13:13] Justin asks about the interconnectedness of risks when Gen. Molstad joined the Canadian Armed Forces 30 years ago, compared to today. Gen. Molstad says he would call it below the threshold. For decades after the Cold War, we were living within a peace dividend. [13:44] Gen. Molstad says there was a degree of taking our eyes off of the great power competition and potential for major combat operations that we're now seeing occurring in Eastern Europe and other places. [13:54] Gen. Molstad says we ended up in a very important counter-insurgency fight, a counter-violent-extremist-organization fight after 9/11. He lived viscerally through 9/11 on duty in Northeastern Canada, when so many planes came across and landed in Canadian airports. [14:16] Gen. Molstad says we entered into that phase on counter-violent-extremist organizations, and we took our eyes off the state activities that were occurring from potential adversaries and competitors. [14:26] That was below the threshold, but in the last several years, after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia, it is now elevated above the threshold. [14:38] Everyone is seeing the state interconnectedness where things don't happen in isolation. Things are connected, and we have to be able to tie those connections together. [14:44] Justin asks about silos. Gen. Molstad says silos are very dangerous in all organizations. Silos increase your risk surface area. Breaking down silos is about finding synergies and efficiencies, so we're not duplicating efforts. [15:27] We're getting better outcomes by assigning resources where they best fit. Gen. Molstad says in a military context, silos prevent the right information from getting to the right person at the right time. [15:36] In simple terms, command and control is getting the right information to the right person at the right time to make the best decision possible. There are many cases in military history where silos have been very dangerous and have potentially cost lives in dangerous situations. [15:56] Gen. Molstad says it's really important to ensure that those silos are broken down, that we understand what is happening across organizations and what is happening across governments.  [16:07] The importance of breaking down silos is about decision superiority and making the best decisions. Gen. Molstad explains the OODA Loop: observe, orient, decide, act, and continuously iterate on that. [16:33] You've got to have the right information to observe, to orient yourself. You can't orient yourself if silos exist. If silos exist, your decisions are going to be limited. They're not going to be as high quality as they could be. [16:50] Gen. Molstad says it's really important to break down the silos and ensure that you're getting the right information to the right people at the right time. [16:56] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [17:17] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [17:31] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [17:49] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [17:58] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad! [18:05] Justin asks how often Gen. Molstad meets with business leaders, decision-makers, and people in the corporate finance sector. In the last two to three years, Gen. Molstad has had a lot of opportunities to do that. [18:21] Gen. Molstad got involved with the Institute of Corporate Directors about two and a half years ago when he gave a chapter event. He continued to engage with Corporate Canada on risk management and viewpoints from a senior military leader. [18:37] Gen. Molstad took the ICD designation as well to understand corporate governance. Governance in the Canadian Armed Forces and in the Canadian government are different. Understanding what other organizations do in terms of governance is really important. [18:57] Gen. Molstad has taken part in workshops that have been planned by governance centers of excellence. There's an inundation of industry coming toward the Canadian Armed Forces because of the unprecedented investments in defense. [19:14] Gen. Molstad says we're engaging with the opportunities we have in Canada for defense investments, and ensuring that we have the industrial base that we need, very much engaging with the corporate community for the last two and a half years. It's been really enriching. [19:30] Gen. Molstad says he's learning a lot from corporate Canada and he hopes they're learning a lot from him as well. [19:37] Justin notes that one of the big buzzwords in mainstream media and risk management is resilience. Gen. Molstad calls it le mot du jour, both at the individual level and at the organizational level. At the individual level, resilience is both mental and physical. [20:16] From a military perspective, we need physical resilience to operate in harsh environments. We need mental resilience to react in a positive way to stressful situations to be sure we're using rational thought and that we can move forward. [20:42] Organizational resilience is about organizational adaptability and agility. That happens through sets and reps, going through situations that give you exposure that requires resilience. We get that on a day-to-day basis in the military when we do exercises and operations. [21:04] Gen. Molstad says we're tested in our resilience, organizationally and individually, all the time. [21:18] Gen. Molstad repeats that things don't happen in isolation and we need to be looking at the big picture. Gen. Molstad would like Corporate Canada to take away that they are an integral part of our national security. National security and economic prosperity are interdependent. [21:41] We need to be prepared as a society to ensure that we can react to global shocks in a way that is going to be positive for our economy and for our national security. It's important to have early-warning mechanisms in place. In the military, we call them indicators and warnings. [22:01] Gen. Molstad says we look for specific things that might indicate that something is happening that we need to be prepared for. In the corporate world, you have to develop that same sort of system. What are the things that will indicate potential risks or the need to pivot? [22:20] Gen. Molstad says we have to be careful not to respond emotionally to the risks that we face. Take a few deep breaths, understand how much time we have to react, and go at your problems with a very objective and rational mindset.  [22:42] In your organization, you have to build the capital and the trust that is needed so that when it's time to surge, in a moment of extremis, you've got the workforce that is ready to line up behind you and surge with you, because you've built that trust and that capital. [23:04] You can't have an organization in a constant state of surge, because you will rapidly reduce the capital and trust that you have with your organization. You have to find the balance between day-to-day activities and moments of extremis, to get through those difficult moments. [23:44] Justin asks about leadership under pressure. Gen. Molstad says being deliberate, listening before speaking, and being a good human. Leadership can be summed up in a simple sentence: be a good human. If you start with that, everything else should fall into place. [24:06] Gen. Molstad says often the best ideas don't come from the top. Listen to your entire organization. He says everyone in a hierarchical organization is a leader. The youngest, most junior-ranked person may have some amazing ideas you need to listen to and consider. [24:24] It's very important in leadership under pressure to look at the time you have available to you, try to listen before you speak, and try to make the best decision that you can, being careful not to be a victim of your own biases. Hear from everybody to make a better-informed decision. [24:54] Once you make your decision, execute it faithfully. Own your decision. The buck stops here. It's your responsibility, your authority, and your accountability. It's the same thing in Corporate Canada. Make the decision, own it, drive it, and lead from the front. [25:24] Justin says we want people to come out and see you on Monday, October 19th, at 9:00 a.m. for a moderated discussion, which will be hosted by Michael Lewis, the President of Marsh Risk Canada. [25:40] Gen. Molstad's last words: Be proud of your Canadian Armed Forces. Our soldiers, sailors, aviators, and special operators are doing incredible work. [25:30] We have an opportunity of a lifetime in a dangerous world to bolster Canada's defense, Canada's national security interconnectedness, and overall, our economic prosperity as a result of that. I look forward to working with all of you to do that with a common objective. [26:12] The people who serve in uniform are somebody's son or daughter. I think about that every day because one of them is my son. I take decisions knowing that I've got to make sure that they have the tools that they need to succeed. We can do it together. [26:30] I see our moment as a very difficult moment, but it's an opportunity of a lifetime, where if we work together, we can achieve common objectives. Be proud of your Armed Forces. Thank them for their service when you see them. We are very proud of them. [26:46] Special thanks again to Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad for joining us here on RIMScast. If you want to see the video version of this interview, with some great still images spliced in there, head over to RIMS.org/Canada. [27:03] His fireside chat will be the opening Keynote at the RIMS Canada Conference in Quebec City, on October 19th. So many great speakers have been booked, including Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, a recent guest on the show. If you're on the fence, this is the time to buy your ticket. [27:22] Register now at RIMSCanadaConference.ca. [27:24] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [27:41] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [27:58] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [28:11] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [28:23] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the video with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad of the Canadian Joint Forces Command. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third Party Litigation Funding Risk" | Dec. 3, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes from 2026: "Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau" "When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad, Commander of the Canadian Joint Forces Command   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Mark Prysock, RIMS General Counsel and VP of External Affairs, about changes to the board nomination process, RIMS Advocacy efforts, and how RIMS makes an impact. Mark tells how the March 2026 RIMS Legislative Summit was a success. They discuss the National Flood Insurance Program.   Mark and Justin discuss two upcoming webinars Mark will host for RIMS Advocacy on November 10th (on the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program) and December 3rd (on third-party litigation funding legislation). Listen for Mark's insight into RIMS Advocacy, Public Policy, and Legislative Goals.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will get an advocacy update from RIMS General Counsel and Vice President of External Affairs, Mark Prysock. But first… [:42] Webinars: On Oct. 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight." [:52] On Oct. 22nd, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders." [1:03] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [1:11] Origami Risk returns on December 10th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." This session was rescheduled from October, and if you were registered for that one, you are automatically registered for the new date in December. [1:26] Find all webinars at RIMS.org/webinars. [1:29] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [1:47] On with the Show! We are overdue for an advocacy update, and Mark Prysock is here to tell us what is going on with third-party litigation funding, the National Flood Insurance Program, the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, and some new board nomination protocols for RIMS. [2:08] Whether you are a U.S.-based member or an international member, this episode will speak to you. Always feel free to reach out to Mark Prysock for any other questions or comments. [2:21] Mark is also here because we will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On Nov. 10th, we will host a session about the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and an update on Federal developments. [2:39] On Dec. 3rd, we will host a session about third-party litigation funding. I will be there to announce, and Mark Prysock will moderate. Links to those webinars are at RIMS.org/Webinars. These are the topics that are driving the profession now, so let's learn more about them today. [2:55] Interview! Mark Prysock, Welcome Back to RIMScast! [3:23] Mark says that for the past two years, the RIMS Board of Directors and the Senior Management Team have explored various changes to the Society's governance to make sure that our governance practices are in sync with best practices across the association landscape. [3:42] Mark says the most significant change that we adopted is that we are now sending out a call to serve to our members each year, asking them to self-nominate for positions on the Board. That is a significant change for the organization. This year is the first year that we did it. [4:01] Mark is pleased to report that RIMS received a number of very qualified applications. The Nominating Committee sifted through them, conducted interviews, and settled on next year's Board slate. He says the process went extremely well, and it's how we will do it going forward. [4:24] Justin asks if this was one of the initiatives led by former RIMS President Kristen Peed. Mark says Gary LaBranche, RIMS CEO, and Kristin Peed, Chair of the Nominating Committee, took the lead on this project. Accepting self-nominations is brand new. [4:47] Mark says we did a few other things: We changed the composition of the Nominating Committee, and we changed the procedure for appointing officers. The most significant change was sending this call to serve to our members, inviting them to an online application page. [5:15] Mark says it is considered a best practice in the association space to send out a call to serve to the full membership, letting them know there is a webpage dedicated to the process and what to expect as a Board member. It was good for RIMS to adopt that change.  [5:53] Mark says this is an annual selection process. Every year the Board will have a conversation about what desired competencies they are looking for in incoming candidates. The Nominating Committee will update the web page accordingly and send out a call to serve. [6:33] Justin asks about the vibe in Washington, D.C. Marks says things have been interesting. It is adversarial, coming up to the mid-term elections. That has made it a little more challenging to accomplish the RIMS legislative goals. RIMS has had some successes. [7:08] Mark says one thing that's very interesting is that there are many members of the House and Senate who are retiring or moving on at the end of this term. There will be a lot of new faces in Washington, beginning in January. [7:23] Mark says that will put a bit of pressure on our public policy program to make sure all these new people are educated on our issues. Justin notes that means there will be new staff members to forge relationships with at the Legislative Summit. [7:46] Mark says there will be a lot of new Congressional staffers who may not know the RIMS issues or priorities. It's on us to make sure that they do know these things, so we will be spending a fair amount of time in D.C. [8:05] Mark says the Legislative Summit is a very important vehicle for us to deliver our message to Members of Congress and their staff. [8:25] Mark says meetings with the new Congressional staffers are important opportunities. You get a sense early on in conversations with staff or Members of Congress as to where they stand on RIMS issues. It's good to find new friends. The RIMS issues are not terribly controversial. [8:47] Mark says it comes down to educating people on the importance of what RIMS is trying to accomplish. If the RIMS team is successful at that, they should make some new friends. [9:07] Justin recalls that former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski was a RIMScast guest. She mentioned that sometimes Congressional staffers will stay on Capitol Hill and work for a different Congressperson. Mark says absolutely that is the case. [9:23] Mark says if a member of Congress is losing their job, their staffers use their connections and whatever means available to find new work. Mark was a Congressional staffer, and the Member of Congress he worked for lost his reelection bid. The staffers had to find new work. [9:48] Mark says it's pretty common for staffers to remain on the Hill, working for different Members. For Mark, it was networking. [10:12] Mark says if you spend enough time up on Capitol Hill, you realize that the Legislative Branch of Government is run by people under the age of 35. From the Chief of Staff down to the Legislative Correspondent, these are people who, for the most part, are younger than 35.  [10:29] Everybody networks, and you get to know staffers from other offices really well. Opportunities often present themselves. You just have to decide when's the best time to jump. [10:45] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. This is the last call for registration for the RIMS Canada Conference 2026, which will be October 18th through the 21st in Quebec City. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [11:02] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spin-off show, RIMScast Canada video podcast. [11:11] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [11:25] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd. [11:44] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The registration link is in this episode's show notes. [11:56] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS General Counsel and VP of External Affairs Mark Prysock! [12:06] Justin mentions the RIMS Public Policy Committee. Lynn Haley Pilarski, with General Motors, has chaired the Public Policy Committee for the last couple of years. The Vice Chair is Polly James, with Feld Entertainment. The Committee has been active on a number of fronts. [12:33] The Public Policy Committee identified RIMS's legislative priorities and found different ways to work those issues, either through grassroots letters, RISK PAC donations, the Legislative Summit, and other lobbying visits. The Public Policy Committee has been active. [12:55] RIMS's top legislative priorities are: The reauthorization of the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), the National Flood Insurance Program, which is included in the Continuing Resolution to fund the Federal Government, and is typically in short-term extensions of months.  [14:05] Mark says the National Flood Insurance Program is now funded through December 11th of 2026. It is the 36th time the program has been temporarily extended. Mark says Congress will pass another Continuing Resolution to fund the Government into 2027. [14:29] Justin brings up third-party litigation funding. Mark says it has become a big issue for a lot of organizations. It means you have third parties, such as investment vehicles or hedge funds, that view civil litigation as an asset they can invest in.  [14:58] These third parties will agree to bankroll litigation in exchange for a cut of the proceeds, whatever the settlement might be. Mark says, first, it seems to be a corruption of the civil justice system, and second, at this time, those sorts of arrangements aren't disclosed. [15:31] Mark says, at a bare minimum, we would like to see those arrangements disclosed. In many cases, the third-party funders control the case. They will be the ones to decide if and when to settle. They will have access to whatever comes out in discovery. [15:55] Mark says there is the risk of foreign entities investing in these lawsuits for the purpose of gaining a lot of information through the discovery process. Third-party litigation funding is a problem. [16:12] Mark says the Institute for Legal Reform, the in-house law firm of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, has established that there is a nexus between these third-party litigation funding arrangements and nuclear verdicts, which are the high-dollar verdicts. [16:30] From the risk perspective, one of the problems is it's going to create a very hard market. There are going to be certain types of insurance that may become difficult, and extremely expensive, if not impossible, to procure. Mark says this is an issue we care very much about. [16:48] Mark says, we'd like to see disclosure, and more guardrails in place, when it comes to foreign entities and their ability to invest in these lawsuits. A number of Federal bills have been introduced that have all stalled out. Mark expects little progress in this session of Congress. [17:15] Mark says that North Carolina became the first state to pass a ban on third-party litigation funding arrangements there. Mark says we're encouraged to see this progress at the state level, and we hope that in the next session of Congress, something more can happen. [17:50] Mark says for the past couple of years there has been talk on the Hill that they should implement changes to the way in which nonprofit organizations like RIMS are taxed. [18:05] Mark says the argument is that many nonprofit organizations engage in activities similar to what for-profits do, but nonprofits have an advantage in that they are not taxed. Both the House and the Senate discussed making some changes on that front. [18:26] Mark says that the ASAE headed a large coalition of associations, with RIMS on the Steering Committee, to lobby against taxes on nonprofit organizations. There were two major tax bills passed, and neither of them taxed nonprofit organizations. The associations won. [19:46] Mark says the Legislative Summit went very well in 2026. It was on March 18th and 19th. There were about 50 attendees. Wednesday, March 18th was the Education Day, at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Offices. [20:03] There were a lot of good speakers and panelists. Representative Kevin Hern of Oklahoma, now running for the Senate, lobbyists from the U.S. Chamber and other organizations, Congressional Staffers, and some Executive Branch personnel.  [20:31] Thursday, March 19th was the Lobby Day. Everyone went up to the Hill to meet with their Members of Congress and talk about RIMS's issues. [20:39] Justin says in 2027, the Legislative Summit will be on March 17th and 18th. Mark says it will be in the same format. Education Day will be Wednesday, March 17th, at the U.S. Chamber's Offices. Lobby Day will be Thursday, March 18th, on the Hill. [21:09] Justin says the registration is not open yet for the Legislative Summit 2027. Mark March 17th and 18th on your calendar. You might want to arrive on the 16th. The Legislative Summit is available to members only. You can go to RIMS.org/Membership to become a member today. [21:35] Justin asks Mark to explain RISK PAC. Mark says RIMS has a political action committee called RISK PAC. [21:48] RISK PAC raises money from RIMS members and identifies Members of Congress running for reelection who are in a position to influence legislation RIMS is interested in, or have demonstrated they support what RIMS stands for. RISK PAC contributes to their campaigns. [22:12] Mark says RISK PAC was started in 2011. It's a very important part of the RIMS Public Policy Program. RISK PAC is doing a fundraising event at RISKWORLD in New Orleans. For those who are going to attend RISKWORLD, please plan to come to this fundraising event. [22:41] Justin says there is a link to RISK PAC in the show notes. Please check it out. [22:51] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk Management™, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [23:11] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [23:25] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [23:43] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [23:53] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS General Counsel and VP of External Affairs Mark Prysock! [24:01] Justin says Mark is also here to discuss the two webinars that RIMS Advocacy will be presenting. The first is on November 10th, "Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments." That will be from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m., Eastern Time. [24:16] The second webinar is on December 3rd, "Third-Party Litigation Funding." The time is from 1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m., Eastern Time. Justin asks Mark for an overview of these sessions. [24:29] Mark says this will be a very good program in two pieces. The first is to provide background and context on the TRIA program, why it was established, and how this public-private partnership works. Two people will lead that discussion. [25:02] The second part of it will talk about the current state of play. The House has passed its Reauthorization Bill through 2034. They've made a few tweaks to the bill. The Senate passed its version of the bill, a straight reauthorization through 2034. [25:33] Since there are differences in the two bills, they will need to come together in a Conference Committee where they hash out differences, so they have one unified bill to forward to the President's desk for signature. [25:49] Justin asks about the differences between the bills. Mark says both reauthorize the program through the end of 2034. The Senate made no changes to the current program. The House adopted a couple of minor changes that are not universally embraced. [26:11] Mark says the House wants a timer or clock requiring the Treasury Department to certify that an event had, in fact, been a terrorist event. [26:29] For the TRIA to respond, the Treasury Secretary is required to certify that the event was a terrorist event. The House bill says the Secretary has 90 days to make that certification. Mark says there has been a lot of back-and-forth on that. The Senate bill did not make any changes. [27:02] Mark says the House bill raises the minimum threshold for an event from $5 million, which it currently is, to $10 million, meaning that something will not be certified as a terrorist event if there are not at least $10 million in losses. The Senate bill did not make any changes. [27:28] Justin says the November 10th webinar will delve into those things at 12:00 p.m. Eastern Time. On December 3rd, at 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time,  we have a session by RIMS Advocacy about third-party litigation funding. Justin asks about the panelists and what we'll discuss. [27:58] Mark says we're going to have some panelists who have been very involved in this issue at the federal level. There are a few different third-party funding litigation bills that are circulating, but nothing is going to happen within this session of Congress. [28:22] Mark says that a couple of panelists will talk about what happened at the state level. Chris Smith, who works for the North Carolina U.S. Chamber of Commerce, was very involved in the effort to have North Carolina ban third-party litigation funding arrangements. [28:46] Mark says we're very happy that he's going to be joining us and talking about how that effort worked in North Carolina. [28:52] Mark says, we also have Christine Hayes, currently with Chubb. She was previously the Chief of Staff for the Governor of Georgia. Georgia is another state that has started to make some inroads. We hope in the near future, they are going to change the rules in Georgia as well.  [29:14] Mark says we have a very good, interesting panel. It should be an excellent webinar. [29:19] Justin says we have opened the RIMS Advocacy webinars to members and nonmembers. [29:27] This is a good chance for nonmembers to see one of the other mechanisms of RIMS and to see how we have influence, and how we can make a difference for our profession, here in the U.S., and as a by-product of that, internationally.  [29:58] We encourage nonmembers to register for those two sessions. November 10th is about the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act Program (TRIA). December 3rd is about third-party litigation funding (TPLF). [30:08] Mark's final words: This is directed to RIMS members: If you have not come before, please consider attending the Legislative Summit in March. It is a great event. It gives members the opportunity to be lobbyists for a day. Everybody who does it ends up enjoying it. [30:33] It is a very important part of what we do in the Public Policy Program. Please consider attending. [30:55] Special thanks again to our good friend Mark Prysock for joining us here on RIMScast. Remember that Mark will be moderating two upcoming webinars for RIMS: one about TRIA on November 10th and one about TPLF on December 3rd. Links are in this episode's show notes. [31:14] Save the dates, March 17th and 18th, 2027, for the RIMS Legislative Summit. More updates about the Legislative Summit will be available at RIMS.org/advocacy. [31:23] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [31:42] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [31:58] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [32:11] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [32:21] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Lt. Gen. Darcy Molstad of the Canadian Joint Forces Command. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Third-Party Litigation Funding Risk" | Dec. 3, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Dec. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes from 2026: "25 Years of TRIA: Janice Ochenkowski on Risk, Resilience and Advocacy" "RIMS Advocacy in 2026 with Mark Prysock"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Mark Prysock RIMS General Counsel & VP External Affairs   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Tram Nguyen, honored as a Spencer Scholar at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala in September in New York City, about her acceptance speech during the Gala, her experience as a young Vietnamese professional, and building her career in the United States. Tram tells about learning to navigate a new language, a new academic environment, a highly specialized field like risk management, and what that experience taught her about herself. Tram tells how she learned abt risk management at UConn Business School, and how that connected her to Spencer Educational Foundation, and from there to an internship at BNBuilders, which will shift to a full-time risk analyst position when she graduates in December. Tram speaks highly of her Spencer experiences and why she is passionate about the risk management industry.   Listen for Tram's advice for students learning about Insurance and risk management.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is one of the 2026 Spencer Scholars, Tram Nguyen. But first… [:42] Webinars: Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now." [:53] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight." [1:01] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders." [1:12] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." [1:21] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [1:28] We will close out the year with two webinars from the RIMS Advocacy and External Affairs Committees. On Nov. 10th, we will host a session about the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and an update on Federal developments. [1:44] On Dec. 3rd, we will host a session about third-party litigation funding. Both of those sessions will be moderated by RIMS General Counsel Mark Prysock. He will be our guest next week on RIMSCast. Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register. [1:59] RIMS on YouTube! RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:18] On with the Show! Our guest today wowed the heck out of me while she was on stage receiving her honor at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala in September. Tram Nguyen was one of two Spencer Scholars honored this year. [2:34] Tram is from Vietnam. She is currently wrapping up her studies for an MS in Financial and Enterprise Risk Management at UConn, and she is an incoming risk analyst at BNBuilders in California. [2:48] Tram started in a rural area in Vietnam and worked her way up to being one of the rising stars of the risk profession. [3:01] Tram was just as warm and fun onstage as she is in this interview. I think you're going to learn a lot, not just about her life but also why she's so comfortable on stage, how her personal philosophy guides her risk philosophy, and more. Let's get to it!…   [3:23] Interview! Tram, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast! [3:32] Tram feels humbled because so many talented professionals and great industry leaders she admires have been on the RIMScast podcast. She thanks Justin for inviting her. [3:52] Justin saw Tram on stage as a Spencer Scholar at the Spence Funding Their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria on September 17th. Not only did she receive a wonderful scholarship and honor, but she delivered a memorized speech about herself. Tram says she practiced a lot. [4:26] Tram wrote the speech, and she knew what she wanted to say, so it was easier to remember everything. Justin says when he had to give a toast at his daughter's birthday party, he still needed his lines. Justin says Tram set the bar very high. [5:00] Tram says she is comfortable as a presenter. She was an emcee in Vietnam. When she first went on stage, she was nervous, but the more she practiced and got used to the stage, the more confidence she got. She also does meditation. Mindfulness helps her focus and stay calm. [5:59] Justin says he is glad to hear she felt that way. It takes time to develop those skills, but once you have them, you never want to be without them. [6:13] On stage, Tram spoke of being a young professional in Vietnam and of building her career in the U.S. Tram says she learned to speak English about a year ago. [6:42] Tram says that a few years ago, she didn't know she would be capable of speaking about risk management in English today. She says she learned that human potential is unlimited and nothing is impossible. [7:12] Tram says she prepares for everything. She has a mindset that if someone can do something, she can do it, too, if she learns it. Tram says if she really wants to do something, she will find a way and try as many times as necessary until she gets it. [7:29] Tram says before she came here, a year ago, she didn't have international schooling in Vietnam because her family was very poor. She went to a traditional rural public high school, three hours away from Ho Chi Minh City. [7:48] Tram went to Ho Chi Minh City and started to learn English. Mostly, she studied English through music and movies, but she didn't use it daily in Vietnam. [8:05] When Tram came to the U.S. a year ago, she started using English daily. She understood around 30 to 40% of the lectures at school. She emailed her professor for advice on how to succeed in this course as an international student with English as a second language. [8:33] Tram received guidance that she followed very seriously. She recorded each lecture. She studied a lot. She put herself out there and went to a lot of work events to practice her English. [8:51] Tram adopts new vocabulary words every day. She says her English skills have improved a lot. She says now she can understand 95 to 98% of the conversation. She is still studying and improving every day. [9:46] Justin asks how Tram learned about risk management and wanted to pursue a career in it. Tram says she started to learn about it when she was working at a bank in Vietnam, serving many clients. Insurance was always an important part of her KBI there. [10:02] Tram received a lot of training so she could consult with clients and sell them insurance products. Risk management was also a part of her work, especially in areas like anti-money laundering, investment consultation, and compliance. [10:20] Tram says that at the time, the insurance and risk management industry in Vietnam was still relatively young and underdeveloped. Tram didn't even realize back then that risk management was an industry. [10:34] Tram says that after working for a few years with clients and the situations she encountered, she saw many clients' companies go bankrupt because they didn't know how to manage risk well. [10:51] Tram realized she needed to understand risk management much more deeply if she wanted to become a trusted advisor and help her clients make better decisions. [11:03] Tram also says it is difficult to find people in Vietnam who have strong technical skills and deep knowledge in finance and risk management. That became one of her motivations to study abroad and learn from a developed country, like the U.S., and fill that knowledge gap. [11:23] Tram says when she came to the U.S., she got involved in many events, conferences, and workshops related to risk management. She was doing her master's program, connecting with people in the industry, and she realized the potential of this field and how special this industry is. [12:00] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026 and 2027. Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [12:16] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spin-off show, RIMScast Canada video podcast. [12:25] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [12:40] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Member-only registration will open on November 4th, and general registration will open on December 2nd. [12:58] Get first access to the hotel block! Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk. The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [13:11] Let's Return to Our Interview with 2026 Spencer Scholar Tram Nguyen! [13:23] Tram says she went to college at the University of Economics Ho Chi Minh City, a public university in Vietnam. It is very strong in economics. [13:41] Tram says when she came to the U.S., she started at UConn for her master's degree. She started to learn about risk management and the Spencer Educational Foundation through a professor at UConn. The professor had sent out an email about Spencer Scholarships. [14:13] Tram says this is her last semester. She will graduate in December. She is employed at BNBuilders as a risk intern, working remotely during school. After her graduation, she will move to California in December for full-time work. Her title will change from risk intern to risk analyst. [14:47] Justin says, You're a young person from a rural town in Vietnam who is in Connecticut and will eventually start a career in California in one of the emerging professions here in the U.S. That's such a wonderful story. [15:02] Tram says she truly didn't imagine it. Even her mother says she couldn't believe that someone from their family could work in the U.S., get on a stage in New York City, and give a speech. Her family cried after seeing her speech. [15:37] Tram says that in her programs she had learned a lot about how to manage different types of risk, but she didn't understand how to apply risk in reality, how corporations and companies work on risk, and what the projects look like. [15:57] Tram says that working at BNBuilders, it's fascinating to see how those concepts are applied in real life. Tram is taking a course on credit risk, learning how to calculate the probability of default. [16:12] Tram says that at the company, they have a strong process set up for prequalifying subcontractors. One of the purposes is determining where subcontractors can qualify for the SDI insurance program. [16:28] That experience at BNBuilders helped Tram to learn about how BNBuilders' financial analysts review their financial statements and determine whether their financial capacity meets BNBuilders' requirements. [16:51] Tram says that at BNBuilders, she had the opportunity to go to a job site of a $400 million Life Science project in San Diego and saw a huge, beautiful building being constructed. She saw the laboratories where scientists will conduct research and develop new drugs. [17:23] Tram says she thought of how cool that is, when a company can turn empty land into a complex, a place for people to live, to work, and to create value for society. Tram found it incredibly inspirational. It gave her motivation and more appreciation for what she does. [17:56] One More Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's applications are open for undergraduate scholarships, and they will close on January 15th, 2027. Scholarship awardees will be notified around May 21st. [18:] Full-time Master's scholarships also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027. Awardees will be notified around May 21st. Part-time Master's scholarships also have a deadline of January 15th, 2027. Awardees will be notified around May 21st. [18:36] Pre-dissertation Ph.D. Candidates, Doctoral Candidates, and Pre-instructor of Practice scholarships may begin applying on December 1st, 2026. The Deadline is March 1st, 2027. Awardees will be notified around May 21st. [18:54] In addition to general Spencer Scholarships, all students who apply for a Spencer Scholarship will automatically be considered for one of many named scholarships. For more information, check out SpencerEd.org/scholarships and the link in this episode's show notes. [19:11] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with 2026 Spencer Scholar Tram Nguyen! [19:37] Tram says that when she started her program, she was looking for scholarships. She learned that Spencer was a scholarship program for students in risk management. She wanted the scholarship for her tuition. [19:52] Tram tried every possible way to increase her chances of receiving a scholarship. She took a four-hour train trip to attend Risk Manager on Campus at UConn to meet Ken Goldstein from Spencer. For an hour, she talked to many risk professionals and then took the train back. [20:31] Tram says she went everywhere to make herself more visible. She earned certifications to strengthen her resume and improve her ability for the scholarship application. She focused on risk management and insurance in almost every aspect of her life. [20:52] Tram says the more she learned about this industry and the more people she met, the more she loved it. She says she actually got rejected from the Spencer scholarship. When she received the rejection email, she was upset. [21:12] Tram says when she looked back at everything she had done and how much the scholarship had already changed her direction, her career, and her personal growth, and given her so much motivation to be involved in this industry, she saw she had gained so much. [21:34] Tram says she thought maybe the scholarship had already done its mission. But she didn't give up. She applied again and received the internship offer. Then Spencer announced a new program, Spencer's Success Stipend. Tram applied again, and this time she received it. [22:00] Tram says she volunteered with Spencer at RISKWORLD and met a team. Mostly, she works with Daniel Perez of Spencer. BNBuilders sent their job posting to Spencer, and Daniel connected it with UConn. That's how Tram found her internship. [23:01] Justin says Daniel is a good friend. Daniel connected Justin with several people through Spencer and was able to get some of the guests on the show. Justin gives a big thank you to Daniel. [23:52] Justin asks about Tram's future. Tram says data, technology, and AI are evolving very quickly. Tram especially enjoys learning how to leverage AI to turn her ideas into reality and using AI as her assistant. [24:08] Tram lets AI do what it is good at: execution, building things, and handling repetitive work. For herself, Tram wants to focus on developing as much understanding and knowledge as possible about how things work across different industries. [24:25] Tram says if it is possible for her to understand the big picture, then when she understands how everything works and how different pieces connect to each other, she can think more easily about how to improve it or create something new. [24:47] Tram says when she has a new idea, she can explain it to AI and give it instructions, and let AI and other resources, if necessary, execute the work. After that, she will review the outcome, make changes, polish it, and finalize it. Creativity and how to leverage AI is her focus. [25:24] Tram shares advice: "I would say just keep doing what you love and work hard on your dreams. Then everything will happen. I am still a very young professional, still working, still a student, and still trying to improve myself every day." [25:44] Tram says, "I hope everybody out there will see this as a little bit of motivation or aspiration for them to work harder and strive together." Tram thanks Justin for having her on RIMSCast today. Sharing her stories and talking to Justin is a pleasure. [26:08] Special thanks to Spencer Scholar Tram Nguyen. She seems like a wonderful and grateful individual, and we look forward to having a front seat to all her success in risk management. [26:21] We didn't talk about it in this interview, but Tram Nguyen is also a RIMS-CRMP holder. Do you feel like an underachiever yet? Her RIMS-CRMP Story will be available soon, and a link will be on this episode's show notes. [26:32] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [26:49] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [27:06] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [27:20] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [27:31] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q3 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes from 2026: "Giving Risk Professionals Agency with Lawanda 'Elle Michell' Hall" "Choosing the Challenge with Spencer Board Chair Johnell Holly" "Taking on Global Leadership in Insurance with Sierra Signorelli, Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree" "Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Tram Thuy Nguyen, RIMS-CRMP Spencer Scholar at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala 2026   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Mark Romig about a wide variety of topics, including International Podcast Day, September 30th, Mark's journey as an NFL announcer for the New Orleans Saints, having picked it up from his father Jerry, who announced for 44 years without missing a game, and facts about the great City of New Orleans and its deep and rich history, including Cajun culture and cuisine. RISKWORLD 2027 will be held in April in New Orleans. Mark shares tips on food to enjoy and culture to experience in the city. Mark offers his opinions about the ISO 31000 risk framework and its adaptability and flexibility across industries. He shares his insights on hosting a podcast and letting guests tell their stories. Listen for Mark's observations on what makes a great risk manager.    Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. This is our special International Podcast Day episode. We are delighted to be joined by Mr. Mark Romig. [:38] Mark calls the games for the New Orleans Saints and is the host of The Mark Romig Show, which you can find on the Love NOLATV channel on YouTube. [:47] Ahead of RISKWORLD 2027, being held in his hometown of New Orleans, we will discuss local cuisine, why New Orleans is such a great place for RISKWORLD, and his ERM philosophies. But first… [:59] Webinars: On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now." [1:12] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now." [1:22] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight." [1:31] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders." [1:42] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require." [1:51] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register. [2:01] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:19] RISKWORLD 2027 will be held in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Registration opens on November 4th. Visit RIMS.org/RISKWORLD to register. [2:32] Our guest today is one of the top ambassadors of New Orleans. I'm talking about Mark Romig, best known as the announcer for the New Orleans Saints. He does the play-by-play, and as you will hear from this International Podcasting Day episode, he's got the broadcasting voice. [2:51] We will discuss why New Orleans is a perfect location for RISKWORLD 2027 and how RISKWORLD attendees should prepare for such a fantastic destination. We will discuss Mark's broadcasting legacy and what it takes to host his show, and his interview style and methods. [3:12] We're going to learn about his risk management philosophies. It's all going to be in this episode of RIMScast. Justin explains that this episode was recorded at lunch at Louisiana Joe's, in Oceanside, New York, dining Cajun to get into the spirit of RISKWORLD 2027. [3:45] First, Mark has a special thank you: "I want to thank the great folks at Louisiana Joe's for hosting Justin today, and I'll have to put my order in. Do you all do take-out?" [4:00] Interview! Live from Oceanside, New York, Mark Romig. Welcome to RIMScast! [4:16] Justin is recording from his favorite restaurant, Louisiana Joe's, in Oceanside, New York. He has the St. Charles Chicken Sandwich. Mark would like to reach through the screen and take some to New Orleans. Justin says this is a hopping place. It's great! [5:03] Mark says he will be at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Mark suggests meeting Justin there at one of the many New Orleans restaurants. [5:37] Mark's father, Jerry Romig, was in broadcasting for many years. He became well known in the community by being the Saints announcer for 44 years inside the Superdome and before that at the Tulane Stadium. He never missed a game for 446 consecutive games. [6:21] Mark picked it up after his father retired in 2013, so this is his 14th season with the Saints in the Superdome. There has been a Romig voice in the stadium for 58 years. Jerry and Mark both have a deviated septum that gives them the same tonal quality. [6:54] Mark emulates Jerry's first-down calls. That's his homage to his Dad, to keep that same call going. [7:54] Mark says there are many aspects of New Orleans that appeal to everyone. He believes that it is the center of culture in this part of the world for history, music, food, and architecture. New Orleans is very walkable. Everything is concentrated. You don't need to take long bus rides. [8:34] Mark says, once you're in the central core of New Orleans, everything is within walking distance. The Morial Convention Center, where RISKWORLD will be, is right along the Great Mississippi Riverfront. [8:51] Mark says New Orleans has hundreds of great restaurants and over 40 museums, including the National World War II Museum. People come for important meetings like RISKWORLD or just to come on vacation. [9:30] Mark says the Morial Center has recently completed upgrades and renovations for over $600 million. It is one of the larger meeting facilities in the U.S. [9:49] We keep saying, "New Orleans is built to host. We have all the technology. We have all the services. We have all the things that make a meeting complete in one place. It's very much a walkable city." [10:18] Mark says New Orleans is charming. It's very hospitable. It's not uncommon to be walking down the street, and you may not know the person walking toward you, but that person's going to say, "How's your Mama?" or "How are you doing?" or "Good morning." [10:31] Mark says we just enter into conversations with strangers because we're a very welcoming type of community. Everyone is welcome here. [11:03] Mark talks about what you should be looking for on a menu in New Orleans. Red beans and rice is a staple, with sausage or ham, and the spices that go into it. [11:25] Look for Creole foods like shrimp etouffee, crawfish etouffee, fresh seafood like trout, redfish, or any one of the great delicacies coming out of the Gulf, boiled, baked, sauteed, or fried. We have oyster soup, fried oysters, and charbroiled oysters. [12:05] Mark says, "I'm making myself hungry now, watching you eat and thinking about food! As soon as this interview is over, I'm going out to have lunch." Justin says he's never had Louisiana-style oysters, but he will. [12:34] Justin says RISKWORLD has a lot of international attendees, and RIMS has a very sizeable Canadian membership. Justin asks about the connection between French-Canadian Acadians and Louisiana's Cajun culture. [12:54] Mark says a very important group of Canadians migrated down into Louisiana over 100 years ago from the Nova Scotia area and settled in the Southwest area of Louisiana. Many Louisianians take regular trips back to Canada to see family members still living there. [13:28] There are parts of Louisiana that still speak Canadian French. It's a community outside of Canada that Louisiana has become to Canada. We love our Canadian visitors, and we look forward to hosting them. [13:52] Mark says we have a strong French Consul General here. He mentions the Louisiana CODOFIL Program, which teaches students French in many Louisiana schools. [14:16] Mark says the Cajun French has its own culture and its own joie de vivre, as well as its own food creations. Louisiana is one of the most international states in the U.S. [14:52] Mark says you should not leave New Orleans without having café au lait and beignets. There are many places you can find those. [15:00] You probably will want to try them at Café du Monde, right off of Jackson Square, along the Mississippi River. Get your order and then go sit by the river and watch that river traffic. It's a magnificent way to experience the Mississippi River. [15:34] Mark says Jackson Square is the most historic part of New Orleans, with the St. Louis Cathedral, the second-oldest basilica in the U.S. [15:44] Justin has been to Café du Monde, and he suggests you will need to build in some time for standing in line. Mark says the line moves pretty fast. He also says don't wear dark-colored clothing because the powdery sugar tends to go everywhere. [16:07] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and this is a last call for registration! [16:23] Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [16:29] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [16:42] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month. [16:51] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [17:06] Let's Return to Our Interview with the Host of the Mark Romig Show, Mark Romig! [17:21] This episode is coming out just before International Podcast Day, September 30th. Mark is a podcast host. This is the second RIMScast official International Podcast Day episode. Justin says, we're very glad that Mark is here. [17:51] Justin asks how Mark puts his own stamp on announcing sports. Mark says you develop a certain way of bringing the fans into the game by punching certain calls. In calling the Saints games in the Superdome, the NFL allows the hometown announcer to punch certain things. [18:13] Mark says he is a fan, but he has to be somewhat neutral. He took what his Dad did for 44 years, and he built on some of his calls. That was important. He has a couple of calls he developed himself. He thinks of his Dad as the GOAT, and he's keeping the seat warm. [18:48] Mark says his Dad would do the voice at home, talking about what happened at the game. He was on the local NBC affiliate for many years and developed his own tone. Mark says, even though we're from New Orleans, hearing his television voice a lot affected how we speak. [19:21] Mark says, depending on what party he's at, he might kind of drift into a New Orleans accent, but at the stadium or on his podcast, he uses the voice you hear now. [19:40] Justin says he often hosts the podcasts in the confines of his home, but when his kids hear him using the RIMScast voice, they tell him to stop doing the RIMScast voice. They hear it and think he's about to get angry. Mark leaves his voice at the Dome. [20:37] Mark is also the stadium voice for the Bayou Classic and the All-State Sugar Bowl. He has his podcast, the Mark Romig Show, on the LoveNOLATV YouTube channel. Mark has had guests Bryan Batt from Mad Men, Coach Kellen Moore from the Saints, and other personalities. [21:29] Mark says we try to keep things on the positive side and talk about current events people can participate in. He says we try to uplift in our show. Justin talks about Mark's mother appearing on the show. Justin says the show promotes goodwill. [22:22] Mark says we're doing it on a regional basis. They were picked up by the Gulf Coast Sports & Entertainment Network, reaching an audience along the Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama Gulf Coast. [22:53] Justin talks about eating lunch and says the restaurant, Louisiana Joe's, is always hopping. As far as Justin knows, it's the only Cajun sandwich shop around him. There are a couple of crab places, but they don't hold a candle to Louisiana Joe's. [23:44] Speaking of his podcast, Mark says if you bring on the right personality, you let them tell their story. Mark tries to minimize his involvement to give them time to speak about themselves and what makes them tick. He seeds a small question and lets them take it from there. [24:16] Mark says he's learning so much. It's like going back to school when he's talking to these wonderful individuals about their work and their passion for what they do, giving them the space to be who they are. [24:33] Mark looks at it as storytelling. In his tourism work, Mark tells the story. On his podcast, he enjoys his guests telling their stories. [24:50] Justin said he had to learn early on to ask an open-ended question and just hang back and let the person open up a bit. Justin doesn't ask hard-hitting questions about current events; he asks about risk management. [25:15] Mark says what RIMScast does is so important to the industry. It builds comfort so people can continue in their business and know they will be taken care of if anything should happen. [25:31] Mark says in storytelling, people can find a lot in common if they just listen to people and understand where they're coming from. If I can build bridges, that's the key. [25:45] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more. [26:06] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships. [26:14] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! [26:27] Reach out to Ted Donovan at [email protected] or reach out to Sales at [email protected]. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization. [26:39] Let's Return to Our Interview with Mark Romig! [26:49] Justin turns the conversation to risk management. He asks Mark which framework he would recommend, between the COSO Enterprise Risk Management Framework, the ISO 31000 Framework, or ISO standards, generally. [27:14] Mark would lean toward ISO 31000 because of its flexibility and its applicability across different types of organizations and risk environments. [27:25] Mark says he likes that it provides the principles and a framework for integrating risk management into decision-making without being overly prescriptive about how an organization must implement it. [27:37] Mark says that adaptability is particularly valuable because effective risk management must reflect an organization's strategy, culture, and specific risk profile. [27:50] Justin says he finds that answer incredibly insightful and he had no idea Mark was so well-versed in risk management. [28:01] Mark says, "Because we love RIMS so much, I am reading up and ready." Justin suspects Mark of tearing into the RIMS whitepapers at RIMS.org/RiskKnowledge. Mark says, "Gary LaBranche is a good teacher; let me just tell you that." [28:18] Mark is friends with RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche. In the 1990s, they both served on the International Board of Tau Kappa Epsilon, a collegiate fraternity founded in 1899. They served as International Chairman of the Board of Directors of Tau Kappa Epsilon [28:50] Mark and Gary remained friends. Mark saw him last month in New Orleans at the international conclave for Tau Kappa Epsilon. They toasted their friendship. [29:09] Justin says he saw Gary the night before this recording at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City. [29:26] Justin asks Mark how viable ISO 31000 remains as a Framework for organizations looking to establish a consistent enterprise-wide approach to risk management. [29:41] Mark says ISO 31000 remains highly viable because it provides organizations with a common language and principles for thinking about risk but without prescribing a one-size-fits-all methodology. [29:55] Mark says its real value is in helping risk management become integrated into decision-making and organizational processes, rather than functioning as a stand-alone exercise. [30:06] Mark says the framework gives organizations a strong foundation while still allowing them to adapt their approach to their own strategy, their own culture, and their own risk environment. Justin agrees. Mark stresses adaptability and flexibility. [30:54] Mark says the strongest risk professionals need a combination of analytical skills, business acumen, and communication skills. [31:08] You have to be able to understand complex risks, then you have to translate them into language that business leaders can act on, and then build relationships across an organization so that risk management becomes part of everyday decision-making. [31:26] Mark says, most importantly, you need curiosity. You have to keep learning. The environment changes all the time. The risk landscape is constantly changing. Keep asking the questions. [32:07] Mark reads the newspaper every day. He's curious about not only what's happening in New Orleans and Louisiana, but also what's happening around the world. That allows him to communicate better when he's speaking with someone he's just met or someone in his office. [32:25] Mark reads the newspaper for his own edification. He likes being in the know. He says a good risk manager is a curious person. [32:55] Mark talks about risk management for the Saints. You start with the Senior Vice President of Finance, responsible for the safety and welfare of the business enterprise. [33:18] The General Manager, Mickey Loomis, is concerned about the risk of the entire organization, as is the President of the organization, Dennis Lauscha, and Mrs. Benson, the owner. It's her club. It's her asset, and she's always concerned about the risks that are involved. [33:38] The Assistant Equipment Manager makes sure that the equipment is in the best shape possible. And the Trainers; everyone has a role in the risk enterprise. Everyone should be aware that what they do affects the health and safety of the entire organization. [34:03] Walt Leger, President and CEO, New Orleans & Company, is the uber risk manager. A lot of people have the responsibility. It all flows up to the top person, the President and CEO. [34:29] Everyone needs to be aware of where they fit in the risk equation and do their jobs and lessen the risk. [34:42] Justin says this has been one of my favorite episodes: International Podcast Day, with Mark Romig. [34:54] Mark says about attending RISKWORLD 2027: I would ask people to do a little reading ahead. Those who have been to New Orleans know our deep history and the rich culture. If it's your first time, go to NewOrleans.com. It's a good one-stop shop for things about New Orleans. [35:24] Mark says, read up on our musicians and our history, the architecture, and know that New Orleans is looking forward to welcoming RIMS back here. It's so important to our community to have you here. It's going to be a great, great session. [35:43] Special thanks to the voice of the New Orleans Saints, Mr. Mark Romig, for joining us here on RIMScast for a very special International Podcast Day episode! I look forward to seeing him at RISKWORLD 2027. [35:58] Check out the Mark Romig Show on @LoveNOLATV on YouTube. If you happen to attend a Saints game, tell Mark that you heard him here on RIMScast. [36:07] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [36:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [36:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [36:56] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [37:08] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] Louisiana Joe's Mark Romig Show | LoveNolaTV   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026 "RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Broadcasting Captive Wisdom with James Swanke" "Risk and Leadership Patterns with Super Bowl Champion Ryan Harris" "Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau" "Sports, Spotlight, and Risk Leadership with Rich Lenkov, Founder and CEO of SERMA"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Mark Romig, Announcer, New Orleans Saints Host: The Mark Romig Show, LoveNolaTV (YouTube)   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Roy Hock about "Future-proofing" a risk program and what it means. They discuss energy awareness and its importance, especially for an energy company. Roy tells of the insurance career journey that led him to Valero. He explains some of the products Valero provides. Roy tells how his Risk team mitigates risk for Valero. He explains how he manages Valero's captive insurance company. More than ever, there are regulatory risks that need to be mitigated where possible.   Roy speaks of the South Texas RIMS Chapter and its engagement programs, including a shooting event and golf events. Listen for Roy's advice for young risk professionals who want to become strategic risk leaders over the next 10 years.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our topics are energy awareness and future-proofing a risk program. Our guest is Roy Hock, Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance at Valero. But first… [:45] RIMS-CRMP: RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification. [:57] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and to understand how the RIMS-CRMP is shaping the future of risk management. [1:07] A link to Certification Week is in this episode's show notes. You can also find it at RIMS.org/Webinars. [1:14] Webinars: There are lots more RIMS Webinars coming up. On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now." [1:27] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now". [1:37] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight". [1:46] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders". [1:57] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require". [2:06] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics". Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register. [2:17] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:36] On with the Show! Our guest today is Roy Hock, the Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance at Valero, one of the world's largest oil refineries. We will discuss what it takes to future-proof Valero's risk program, and we will discuss Energy Awareness Month in October. [3:08] You may know Roy from his presence in the RIMS Houston Chapter. He is a former president of that chapter, and you probably saw him at the RIMS Texas Regional in 2026. [3:23] Announcement: The speaker's views are his own, and not necessarily the views of Valero. [3:29] I'm looking forward to hearing how he manages risk for Valero, so let's get to it! [3:34] Interview! Roy Hock, welcome to RIMScast! [3:48] Roy started working for an insurance company right out of school. Most of his career has been in Houston. For the last six years, he has been in San Antonio at Valero. [4:03] Roy shares his early career path: underwriting, reinsurance, broker. Then he got his ARM. One of his friends was looking for a risk manager for a startup in Houston. Roy took the opportunity. He loved it until it was sold. [4:55] Roy moved on to another job. After a couple of years, Valero approached him, looking for a risk manager with experience in the oil and gas industry, for a job in San Antonio. Roy said yes. It's a wonderful city. He was very excited to be given the opportunity. [5:21] Roy says, six years later, he's Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance, and loving every minute of it. [5:52] Roy says his work days are varied. Every day is an exciting new challenge. Roy oversees captive, casualty insurance, directors and officers insurance, and all other types of insurance. He works in a large team and is often the backup when people are out. He's keeping up his skills. [6:27] Roy also oversees the Risk Information Management System. Part of his team focuses on that, and he helps support them. [6:38] Roy says it's a big organization of 10,000 people, and there's always something happening. You never know what you're going to get from day to day. [6:48] Justin says he and Roy met right after RISKWORLD for a session with Origami Risk, "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program". Justin wanted to extend the dialog with Roy with Energy Awareness Month coming up in October. [7:06] Justin asks how important Energy Awareness Month is at Valero. Roy says every minute of every day is about energy awareness. [7:24] Valero is a refiner. They buy crude and refine it into jet fuel, diesel, and unleaded gas. They also produce ethanol and renewable diesel. They have their hands in a lot of things, all geared to moving people around the world. [7:52] Valero is always looking at how to create efficiencies and keep costs down. Energy is a big piece of that. They are in Texas, where wind and solar are big. Valero is a big energy consumer. [8:10] They try to keep the energy costs down and build efficiencies within the operation, not only to keep costs down but also to be more self-sustaining so they're taking less off the grid. [8:47] Roy says a risk manager not only has to understand the insurance side and the claims side, and how they interrelate, but you have to understand them in the context of your business. [8:58] You need to know how you make money, where the risks are, the trends you see, and help the organization identify those trends and find ways to address them when possible, via a captive or an outside carrier or internally with programs to mitigate risks and keep losses down. [9:23] Roy says if you don't understand the business, you can't do that very effectively. You need to understand the business. You don't need to know all the details of how a business works, but you need to know a very strong baseline and know who does know the answers. [9:38] Roy says creating that internal network is just as important as having the external network you get in the insurance world. You need to sit in between those two. [9:50] Roy has been at Valero for six years and two months. He came from an oil and gas background, on the insurance side of the business. He knew how the flow worked and what all the pieces did. Even after six years at Valero, Roy is still learning something every day. [10:22] Roy says it took a good year or two to feel comfortable "speaking" the business. He got there by listening to executives talk to carriers, by listening to earnings calls, and by listening to businesses asking Valero for things. Roy loves being a learner. [10:51] That's how Roy has gotten a baseline comfort with the business, and he knows who to ask when there are specific questions. [11:05] Roy has four people on his team, acting as internal support on top of other things they do for the company. The broad risk management group is around 20 people, including an internal TPA and risk engineers with niche knowledge in fire, water, and protection. [12:04] Roy says most companies don't do that. It's just how Valero developed over the years. [12:21] Justin asks what future-proofing a risk program means to Roy. Roy says it's staying on the pulse of what's going on in the business and in the insurance commercial markets, and maintaining a strong network across the board. Use that information. Does this apply to Valero? [12:58] Roy says you have to look at the workforce. Some people may retire. What does that mean? What will we look like in five years? Roy says we do a five-year team outlook for the knowledge transfer. What's on the horizon?  [13:27] Twenty years ago, cyber was a thing, but it wasn't a real thing. Now, it's a bigger thing. It's something we have to look at. It's been insane. Roy asks, What's this AI going to do to us? [13:47] Roy says a lot of that is coming from internal questions and resources. People from different departments bring questions. Roy says it's going to RIMS conferences and learning what's going on in the world, in the RIMS space, and in the technology space. [14:07] Roy says bringing all that together is what helps future-proof us. [14:39] Roy says he thinks all risk managers inherently do that. We're always trying to stay ahead of the ball. They want to stay at the forefront of what's going on in the world, so they can address it before it becomes a problem. That's the key. You're trying to address it. [14:59] If it is a business decision, bring to bear your business knowledge in discussions: If we do this, this is what could happen, and this is how we can mitigate it. Do you want to take the cost of that mitigation? Roy says that having those discussions helps a lot, as well. [15:21] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. [15:38] Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [15:44] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [16:01] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month. [16:10] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [16:23] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! Member-only Registration will open on November 4th, and General Registration will open on December 2nd. [16:41] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [16:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with Roy Hock of Valero! [17:01] Justin asks if electric vehicles (EVs) are a risk for Valero. Roy answers that Valero is a supply-and-demand organization. Futurists have predicted we would hit peak oil and we would not need oil. That has not come to pass. [17:40] Valero's philosophy is to do what is right, what makes profit for shareholders, and what's good for the world as they see it. So far, that's been doing very well for them. Valero is proud of what they've accomplished. [18:03] Roy says Valero has done things internally that people don't see to bring down its carbon footprint. Some regulatory switches have caused Valero to put those numbers forward. Roy says Valero is proud of those numbers and that their metrics are industry-leading. [19:06] Roy says Valero has a good story to tell and now they are telling it. It has been interesting. Some things they have been doing; some things have been in their plans for 20 years, as part of trying to run a good business. They've been doing all the right things, all along. [19:43] Roy says he thinks Valero's culture of humility is helping to future-proof the business. Interns and new hires seem to love Valero. Numbers are good. Retention numbers are really good. If young employees are unhappy with a company's culture, they look for something else. [20:31] Roy says, not only do we compensate them well, but also the culture keeps them engaged and wanting to work for us. Someone retired from Roy's team after 35-plus years. Roy says that is very common there. People like to work at Valero. It's a good spot. [20:53] Justin asks how geopolitical risks affect Roy's risk work at Valero. Roy says Valero has been forced to step up and participate in new ways recently. Around the world, regulations have changed. It's hard to plan a business around regulations that are here today and gone tomorrow. [21:47] Roy says they have to be at the table to try to mitigate that risk. Roy says "100%" there is more volatility on the regulatory side than when Valero started. The regulatory environment across the world swings back and forth. Valero is just trying to run a good business. [22:26] Roy says one side of the aisle doesn't like it, and the other side of the aisle doesn't like it for a completely different reason. [22:35] Valero is having to come sit at the table more often than ever to try to make sure their voice is heard and that what they're trying to do is coming across, to try to mitigate that risk as much as possible. It's not an insurance risk but a legal-type risk that Valero has to address. [23:08] Roy says that Risk has the attention of the C-Suite. In Roy's experience, even at previous companies, insurance is one of the big "spends" of a company. It's the Risk Management Group's role to mitigate risks, process claims, and make sure they stay under control. [23:43] Roy says that through Legal, or Treasury, or directly to the CFO, there's usually a line of sight to the C-Suite and the Board. Roy says sometimes you're placing insurance for the Board. Roy helps his VP get ready for the annual update to the Board and the big renewal cycles. [24:15] Roy says, in the renewal cycle, if Risk sees something on the horizon, it's easy for them, because of the networks they've built, to go to the C-Suite and communicate those risks or options to them. It's periodic. It happens all the time. [24:43] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [25:02] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [25:16] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [25:35] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [25:44] Let's Return to Our Interview with Roy Hock of Valero! [25:50] Justin and Roy talk about Roy's membership in the South Texas RIMS Chapter. Roy is the former President of the RIMS Houston Chapter. He says the South Texas RIMS Chapter is fantastic. [26:18] Roy says there are a lot of businesses coming into Texas, which means a lot of risk functions are moving in. The different chapters are growing. Everybody is doing a good job keeping their members engaged. They keep growing and finding new avenues of engagement. [26:40] Roy says 32 years ago the South Texas RIMS Chapter led the way and started a shooting event in the Spring. Roy was a traditional golfer in Houston. Roy says the shooting event is awesome. They still do a golf event as well. Valero is a big sponsor of these types of events. [27:03] Roy says his boss, Jeremy Bergeron, is a former President of the local chapter. Jeremy reports to the Board annually. Everybody on the team is hands-on, periodically touching base with the different groups. [27:34] Roy says Valero has a long history with and a love of RIMS. Often, the South Texas RIMS Chapter gets invites to play golf with different vendors, and Valero has been very good about supporting that. [27:52] Instead of chapter members going, they'll bring in students from St. Mary's University to attend these events as the future of the risk management industry. It's important to have them get engaged in these types of events, so the chapter helps support them and brings them in. [28:12] Roy sits on the St. Mary's Risk Advisory Board. It's been a pleasure. He loves it, and he says these kids are great. He says we have great future people coming into the industry. [28:30] Roy describes managing a captive for Valero. He has always been interested in how insurance companies function and work. When Valero approached him, it was for risk management and running a captive insurance company. He said, Sign me up! [28:58] Roy says it's great. Day to day, they're doing everything an insurance company does. They talk to regulators, they have managers, they have investments, and all the different things that accompany an insurance company. [29:09] Roy says Valero's captive is a company within a company, and an insurance company within a non-insurance-company environment. They insure Valero. Roy has a CPA on staff who is very helpful. She came from Valero's Accounting side, so she knows their needs. [29:39] Roy says that's one of the unique things about a captive. You need to be able to integrate with your parent company to consolidate everything correctly. The CPA is the bridge that does that for the captive. She has been very helpful to Roy and has helped him learn about it. [29:55] Roy says he didn't have a strong finance background. He knew basic accounting, but running a company is a little bit different. You need to know a little bit more. The CPA has helped Roy get educated on that. Accounting rules evolve, and regulations change all the time. [30:21] Roy says he likes policies and insurance. Reading a policy may not be for everybody, but it is for Roy, so it has been great. He gets to generate policies, which is even more fun. He gets to interact with a lot of fun and exciting people at Valero and outside. [31:08] Roy says they've redomiciled their captive to Texas. It's a growing captive, so there are a lot of moving parts, like a startup. He has to wear many hats. Valero allows Roy the opportunity to engage in helping with the process of pushing legislation. He likes the opportunity. [32:00] Roy would advise young risk professionals coming out of schools today, already understanding policies and risk registers, to continue their education. Designations are important, including the RIMS-CRMP. Roy got the ARM before the RIMS-CRMP was available. [33:10] Roy says things are changing constantly. When Roy took the ARM, there was no cyber piece. There is a piece on cyber now. It's a dynamic and ever-changing industry. Always keep your education up. Roy also advises that you need to build your network. [33:38] Roy says in insurance and risk management, and in your organization, you need to build your network so you can do your job and learn about what other people are doing in your organization and outside your organization. [33:53] Going to conferences helps in ways you don't even understand. As an industry, risk stands out as being more personable. You have data, systems, and risks, but you layer a personal connection on top of all of it. [34:23] Roy says a lot of students come out of school without a network. Roy tells his team to introduce these students to as many people as you can. Make sure that they get to all the conferences that they can. In the industry, we have a responsibility to help them with that. [34:58] As new risk professionals join the workforce, Roy says they should know that the traditional industries are not going anywhere. They are still very valuable and have a lot of career "legs" in them. You can make a great career working at an energy or energy-related company. [35:14] Roy says new risk professionals should keep an open mind to it and see what they like. As many pieces as there are on the insurance side, there are as many on the energy side. There are all types of energy and all types of places to play. [35:35] Roy says to move around, learn about these different pieces, and see what speaks to you. If you don't like what you're doing, you're not going to do as good a job. If you like what you're doing, you're always going to push yourself to do the best job. [35:33] Special thanks again to Roy Hock for joining us here on RIMScast! I've got a link in this episode's show notes to the on-demand video of "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program: Keeping Pace with Scale, Complexity, and Visibility," featuring Roy Hock and presented by Origami Risk. [36:10] Visit https://www.RIMS.org/Webinars and scroll down the page to find it. [36:14] Happy Energy Awareness Month! [36:16] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [36:34] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [36:50] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [37:03] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [37:15] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program: Keeping Pace with Scale, Complexity, and Visibility"   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "From Wellhead to Burner Tip: Eric Lobser's ERM Journey" "When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Roy C. Hock,  Director, Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance, Valero October is Energy Awareness Month.   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Sal Lifrieri, former NYPD detective and director for NYC's Office of Emergency Management during the 9/11 attacks. Sal is the author of the new book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. As a security and counterterrorism expert, Sal Lifrieri draws on a 40-year career spanning homicide investigations, hostage negotiations, intelligence operations, emergency management, and corporate security. His experience offers timely lessons on how leaders can anticipate threats, respond decisively, and protect citizens during our most challenging and uncertain moments. Justin and Sal discuss practical, layered security for houses of worship, often involving volunteers, controlling access, and knowing who is entering the building, all while maintaining a spirit of welcome. They discuss what should happen well before a disruption to a service, what responses work if a person disrupts a service, and what roles different respondents, including law enforcement, can play. Sal points out that the best deterrent is intelligence information, and he advises how staff can get information before the service. Listen for Sal's advice on security teams, pre-planning, and having a well-defined evacuation strategy.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Sal Lifrieri, a security and terrorism expert. We will discuss tips for how to keep houses of worship safe, especially during the High Holy Days. But first… [:45] RIMS-CRMP: RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. There is a link to the events in this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification. [1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is shaping the future of risk management. [1:13] A link to Certification Week is in this episode's show notes. You can also find it at RIMS.org/Webinars. [1:19] Webinars: There are lots more RIMS Webinars coming up. On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal about Frequency, Severity, and Resilience." [1:32] On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now." [1:42] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now". [1:52] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight". [2:01] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders". [2:13] Origami Risk returns on October 29th with a session that will be announced shortly. [2:19] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics". Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register. [2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:48] On with the Show! Our guest today has 40 years of experience leading through high-pressure situations. He is a former New York Police Department Detective 1st Grade.  [3:00] He served on the department's elite Hostage Negotiation Team and later, the Protective Operations Unit within the Intelligence Division, overseeing Protective Intelligence and Threat Investigations for the Mayor of New York City. [3:14] He is the author of a new book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. He is here to discuss safety precautions and preparedness for houses of worship. [3:30] His name is Sal Lifrieri, and you may know him from his RIMS events appearances and sessions. [3:37] This is going to be a really great dialog, not just for RIMS members, but also for the public, for those individuals who may not be an official risk manager for your house of worship but have to take the lead on ensuring the security and safety of your congregants. Let's get to it! [3:58] Interview! Sal Lifrieri, welcome to RIMScast!  [4:19] Sal spent 20 years with the NYPD, from Patrol to Anti-crime to the Hostage Negotiation Team, which he regards as the highlight of his career. He went to the Intelligence Division, in charge of the Russian Organized Crime Project, then moved over to Protection. [5:03] Sal says the Intelligence Division of the NYPD is modeled after the Secret Service. Half the house does Criminal and half the house does Protection. Sal moved to Protection and took over the Threat operations and Intelligence operations for the elected officials and the Mayor. [5:23] Sal's final assignment was Mayor Giuliani. He took Emergency Management away from the Police Department and created a Mayoral Agency. About seven went over from the NYPD. [5:43] Sal says they sought to create the city's planning for any crisis or disaster. At the time, that was chemical and biological terrorism. They worked on the different threats that came through the city. [6:00] In January of '01, Sal retired as a Director of Security and Intelligence Operations out of OEM and started a consulting career. 25 years later, he is still at it. [6:24] Justin says that we're recording this in Early September, and this episode is being released a week after the 25th Anniversary of the September 11th terror attacks. [6:39] Sal says this anniversary is going to be different, considering that it is 25 years, and with what's going on in the world, the different issues and the volatilities that exist, and the things that are occurring with synagogues and houses of worship across the country and the world. [7:10] Sal says also, the fact that Rosh Hashanah starts on 9/11 is significant. That confluence of many things escalates the threat profile. [7:40] Justin says, as a member of a synagogue, in the last 25 years at his temple, he has seen an armed guard outside during the High Holy Days. Justin is at a Reformed temple. For Hebrew School, a security guard checks parent IDs. [8:06] Justin says, These are things they didn't have to worry about when he was a kid. Clearly, the risk threat has heightened. Sal agrees. [8:22] Sal says the threat profile has increased, and something problematic is the availability of social media for children. Parents used to hide children from bad things in the world, but today everything is out there and open for discovery by children. Children are no longer as innocent. [8:53] Justin asks about protection at houses of worship. Sal says you need concentric circles of perimeters, starting from the outside and working your way in. The protection starts weeks and months before any of these events take place. [9:44] Start looking at inappropriate correspondence that may be coming in and things that are happening at other facilities around you. Look at the congregation. If your congregation has a high-profile individual, that person may be a target. There are several things you have to look at. [10:12] That planning has to start very early. As you go from the very wide, you start bringing it down closer and closer. It's always great to be able to have law enforcement in front of you, whether a uniformed officer or even just a vehicle. It's definitely a deterrent. [11:06] Justin says that most houses of worship do not have a dedicated risk manager. The person with that responsibility could be a facilities director, clergy, or a volunteer. He asks what people in that situation should assess first. [11:37] Sal says people look at threat assessment as Voodoo. For personnel who don't have the expertise, law enforcement credential, or background, ask the building engineer or the guard, "If you were going to do something bad to this place, how would you do it?" [12:24] Once you can convince them that you're not accusing them, it's incredible what they can tell you. Ask, "Applying common sense, what are those things that you think are problematic and worry about?" They can start developing ideas of what might work well. [13:01] One of Sal's clients is a prominent synagogue in Manhattan. They were having planning meetings before the High Holy Days. One of the people on the security committee is a volunteer usher. He asked how we could check people in faster as they come in. [13:26] Sal says you want that feedback. You want them to tell you how things are operating and what they are thinking about. Apply basic logic to what you think might be wrong and go with it. Justin suggests asking someone on the custodial staff because they know the building. [14:05] Sal says the custodians are the people who, for the most part, get overlooked. They see what's lying on the desk or in the trash, such as inappropriate correspondence that came in. They're a critical element of who should be talked to in a team approach. [14:33] Justin asks about doors or windows that don't secure properly, such as the shooting in Uvalde, Texas, where the shooter entered through a closed door that was supposed to be locked. [15:03] Sal says don't rely on Security to give you the total picture. Go to the people using these things every day that can give you a good heads-up about what may be wrong. [15:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information. [15:35] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [15:52] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [16:10] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month. [16:18] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [16:31] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Member-only Registration will open on November 4th, and General Registration will open on December 2nd. [16:49] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [17:03] Let's Return to Our Interview with Security Expert Sal Lifrieri! [17:10] Justin asks about the balance of keeping a house of worship secure but also maintaining a spirit of openness, welcoming, and handicap accessibility. [17:27] Sal says that's the biggest difficulty with any house of worship. You don't want to have the armed camp, yet you want the security. Trying to balance that is difficult. It's a matter of establishing the policies and protocols. [17:50] Sal says one thing they've done at the synagogue in Manhattan is called the Trusted Traveler Program. If you're a member of the congregation, you have a ticket with a QR code and ID that you are the person on the ticket; you don't have to worry about magnetometers; you're in. [18:22] If you're unknown, or don't have a ticket, you go to a Will Call window and go through better screening. [18:32] If someone seems out of place, you can talk with them. Sal does security training programs, teaching that you can walk up to people and engage them in conversation. If they're up to no good, they will move on. If they're really lost, it becomes a great visitor interaction. [19:38] From the security side, you're able to garner more intelligence information from that interaction to make your decision as to what you want to do. If you're just watching and you're not interacting with them, you have no idea what's going on. [20:00] You want to make your determinations based on intelligence information you're going to garner. The only way you're going to get it is by interacting with that person. [20:21] Justin asks about someone becoming disruptive during a service. What should staff and volunteers be trained to recognize in those first, critical moments? Sal says you should already have met with leadership and decided: If this happens, then what? [21:09] Some rabbis have decided not to be physical. Let them say their piece and get it over with, and then ask them to leave, and hope they leave. [21:32] Sal has seen situations where multiple people will infiltrate. One will get up and start yelling and protesting, and you get that person out, and another one pops up, and then another one pops up. It continues for five or six people. [21:57] Sal says, going back to preplanning, was there any inappropriate correspondence that had come through? Was there anything on social media that indicated that there may be a problem? [22:10] A lot of times, people will see things and say, it's a nut; leave it alone. They'll hit delete, or they'll throw the letter out, never understanding that these things have a natural progression. [22:24] Sal quotes the U.S. Secret Service: Nobody just snaps. It's the slow progression of time, of failing to do things. [22:34] Before they become operational, they're going to write an email; they're going to write a letter. There may be a phone call. There may be things that are going to give you an indication that we may have a problem here. [22:47] Sal shares a case of a recent event where someone stood up, started protesting, and assaulted a congregant and a security officer. The after-action report determined he wasn't a member of the congregation, but it was an open, non-ticketed event, so he was able to get in. [23:27] Sal thinks more investigation is needed. Did he just happen to show up, or was there some indication that this was going to happen? It comes down to your planning before the event. [24:02] Sal says it comes down to organization. You can bring in a consultant like Sal, but the consultant is not going to be there all the time. You want to create a team, including IT. [24:38] If something happens during a streamed service, Sal recommends shutting the stream off so supporters of the protesting individual or group don't get to watch it. You don't want the protest to go viral. [24:57] Sal says a rabbi at one synagogue didn't want any comments to be posted. Sal wants to see the comments. If someone is posting death threats in the middle of a service, you want that intelligence information. You want to know what's going on in the background. [25:28] It's dealing with the AV team, IT, the custodians, and the rabbi ahead of time. If we have to evacuate, where's the best place to go? How do we do it most effectively? It's creating that plan. If you're trying to create the response in the middle of a crisis, you're way too late. [25:55] You have to have a plan ahead of time. You need to know the local law enforcement officers ahead of time. They need to understand you. You need to understand the rules they're under. With demonstrations, it's a very touchy situation. Demonstrators have a right to protest. [26:18] Sal says, depending on what part of the country you are in, and what cities you are in, there are rules of engagement for law enforcement to follow. Sometimes, that's in direct conflict with what the facility wants. [26:31] Those things have to be ironed out and discussed ahead of time so there's no mystery about what happens, if it happens. [26:38] Justin says the protesting can happen outside the location, not inside. Once you're inside, your right to free speech is minimized. [26:48] Sal says, you go through the process of explaining to them, especially if it's an open event; once they're in, and they've been disruptive, you're advising them they have to leave. If they don't, they violate a trespassing act and can be arrested for trespassing. [27:16] That turns into a negotiation in the middle of a protest. In NYC, it involves multiple levels of law enforcement hierarchy and then giving the protester 30 minutes to end before effecting an arrest. In the middle of a service, dealing with all of this could become highly problematic. [28:05] Sal says that what you really need to do is establish policies and protocols ahead of time. Identify what the potential risks are and the issues you may face. Overcome the hurdles of thinking it will never happen here and the budget. [29:04] What's the risk, and how much money do we have to spend on it? The two have to balance each other. [29:14] Sal is annoyed when consultants come in and identify outrageous risks with outrageous requirements that the client could never mitigate. It's a defense plan so that if anything went bad, the consultant can say they told you. [29:45] You have to modify it into a reasonable plan. What are the risks that could seriously potentially happen? What are the things we need to do to mitigate them? How do we apply a budget effectively? [30:02] Justin says these are great tips. We've got plenty of holidays coming up across all religions. This is an evergreen episode for us. [30:24] Justin says the security for any house of worship relies heavily on volunteers a lot of the time. Is there a good practice or training sequence to hand off the baton from one volunteer to the next, especially if there's frequent turnover? [30:40] Sal says, good communication, have volunteers on the security committee, and as they get their feet under them, get some practice, and do reviews after an event or High Holy Day: What did we do right, what did we do wrong, and what are the things we could do better? [31:13] Pass the baton to the next person and work with them. Sal says his experience with that has been positive. You see them talking to each other in a concerted effort to make things better. [31:44] Sal says a couple of years ago we used printed tickets, and now we deploy technology to track who's coming in and can marry that data with any inappropriate correspondence or investigations we may be incurring for people who have been identified as potential problems. [32:17] Sal says being able to marry those two technologies together is something that has been growing in the right direction. As the risks evolve and become more prominent, facilities, especially houses of worship, are starting to take risks a little more seriously. [32:38] Houses of worship are recognizing they need to step up and do things that could make them safer. At the same time, you develop an incredible sense of community when you have a bunch of people willing to get together, work towards a common goal, and learn something. [33:00] Sal says unfortunately, these risks occur, but the positive side is that it's bringing the communities together and giving them the opportunity to tighten up their security. [33:15] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [33:34] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [33:49] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [34:07] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [34:16] Let's Return to Our Interview with Security Expert Sal Lifrieri! [34:31] Justin mentions that Sal has been a presence at RISKWORLD and local RIMS chapter events. Sal says he had the privilege to talk to a RIMS conference in Austin. It was a great experience. He also did a couple of talks for a local chapter. [35:02] Sal says the RIMS organization is picture-perfect for education, training, and leadership for people in risk management. He says, you go to give a talk and inevitably, walk away learning things yourself that you can deploy. He says it's been great and looks forward to doing it again. [35:35] Sal says when he talks at a RIMS event, the attendees are dealing with the risks; they want to hear about the risks, they want to hear about how we identify those risks, and what we do for mitigation of the risks. [36:03] Sal says everybody likes the intelligence component behind it. How do you identify that risk? How do you find a needle in a haystack? You're talking to people who are doing this on a daily basis. They have a vested interest in what you're talking about. [36:48] Justin talks about risk managers needing to hear the bad news so they can prevent it for their own organizations. Sal says they walk into the CEO's or CFO's office and have to tell them, these are the risks; these are the problems. [36:59] The General Counsel doesn't want to hear it. The CFO doesn't want to pay for it. The COO sees it as another risk to worry about. The risk manager is in an incredibly difficult position. Everybody wants to duck and cover when they see the risk manager coming. [37:25] Sal says, on the flip side, if they do the proper planning and proper mitigation, and enough resource allocation, and address all of that, then they wind up mitigating a lot of problems that could decimate a company. The message sometimes gets lost in the C-Suite. [38:00] Justin mentions sports arenas. Sal says for a sports arena, you have 50, 60, or 100,000 people showing up for an event. How do you get them in? How do you get them out? Sal recalls the shooting in Las Vegas from the hotel. What was the planning for evacuating 20,000? [38:59] Justin asks how to handle a situation that is outside. At the time of recording, they are in the pre-planning for 9/11 security. One of Sal's clients is the developer of the World Trade Center. They have four buildings on site. 100,000 people will attend the memorial service. [33:33] Sal says they are also looking at the possibility of protests. How do you deal with protests with the potential to go violent? What's the continuity-of-operations plan? One of the benefits is that it's on Friday and there is not a lot of occupancy anticipated in the buildings. [40:05] If something happens, what do you do with the people? Sal says when he was in OEM, there was a huge blizzard. The mayor decided to close everything down at 3:00 and send everybody home. [40:27] They called the head of the MTA to come to City Hall. He told him he couldn't do it; they didn't have the staffing to move hundreds of thousands of people out of the city at 3:00 p.m. They would have needed a day's planning. 60,000 people would be left at Grand Central Station. [41:09] Sal says you can make decisions and recommendations of what you want, but you have to think about secondary impacts. How do you move people? Where do you put them? You don't want a knee-jerk to one crisis to develop a second crisis. [41:29] If you do it the first time, you'll do it the second time; if you do it the second, you'll do it the third. Then before you know it, you're so far downrange you forgot what started the first crisis, and you're trying to deal with something that should have never occurred. [42:13] Sal advises on leadership in a crisis. One of the keys in his book, Leading Through Chaos, is, first, to check your ego at the door. You need the ability to stop and think. Sometimes people in leadership positions think that they have to have all the answers. That's not the case. [42:45] A lot of times, you're dealing with situations that are totally foreign to you, that you've had no experience dealing with. Be willing to stop and take a deep breath. Take a good listen to what is going on. [43:32] Everybody around you is willing to help. You have to be able to take that advice. That's what makes you a great leader: letting the people around you do what they do best. [43:27] Sal, it's been an insightful discussion. I want to thank you for joining us here on RIMScast. [43:36] Special thanks again to Sal Lifriere for joining us here on RIMScast! Remember to check out his book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. Hopefully, we see him at another RIMS event in 2027. [43:52] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [44:10] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [44:25] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [44:40] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [44:52] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] "Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership" Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "25 Years of TRIA: Janice Ochenkowski on Risk, Resilience and Advocacy" "When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower" "The Human Side of Risk with Jerome Mayne" "Reputation and Defense with Jeff McKissack"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) 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RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Sal Lifrieri, former NYPD detective and director for NYC's Office of Emergency Management. Author: Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership "Former NYPD Detective Talks Midtown Security."   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Janice Ochenkowski about her leadership, her career path, serving in RIMS External Affairs and later as RIMS President. They discuss the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the loss of lives, and the impact the attacks had on life in the U.S. Justin and Janice talk about Janice's role in passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA). They also address the financial and housing crisis of 2007-2008. Janice relates her testimony before Congress on various matters over the years, and how her RIMS leadership held her in her employment. Listen for wisdom on adapting and changing with the times, and using leadership opportunities to help your business as you move your risk career forward.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski. [:35] Janice will discuss how her time on the RIMS Board and as RIMS President helped ensure the passage of TRIA, the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, in the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks. [:49] There will be plugs later on, and we will learn about Janice's fascinating career, but I wanted to address the fact that this episode is being released on September 8th, 2026, a few days before the 25th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks in the U.S. [1:10] Before we get started, I'd like to welcome back RIMS's Chief Executive Officer, Gary LaBranche, to say a few words. [1:18] Message from Gary LaBranche: 2026 marks a quarter-century since terrorist attacks on the United States killed nearly 3,000 people, injured many more, and impacted the lives of millions. [1:30] This RIMScast podcast provides the opportunity to reflect on the lives lost and the lasting impact of this tragedy on survivors, families, friends, first responders, and everyone who witnessed that horrendous day and has borne its burden over the past 25 years. [1:51] The events of 9/11 also revealed the best in human nature, such as the warm, welcoming affection shown by Canadians when U.S.-bound flights were diverted to Gander, Montreal, Vancouver, Halifax, and other locations in the aftermath of 9/11, as we learn in this podcast. [2:11] RIMS played a leading role in crafting and passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), which established an insurance backstop in the event of a future large-scale terrorist attack on America. [2:24] RIMS is working right now on bipartisan legislation in both the U.S. House and Senate to reauthorize TRIA. As we commemorate this day, let us rededicate ourselves to the important work that risk management does to make the world safer, more secure, and more sustainable. [2:46] On with the Show! Here to provide a brief history of RIMS's collaboration with members of Congress and the global insurance and risk management community is Janice Ochenkowski. [2:59] Janice was RIMS President in 2007, and as we will learn in this episode, she had a colorful career with RIMS and with Jones Lang LaSalle, a commercial real estate property owner. [3:13] Her RIMS participation prior to her presidency was instrumental in helping her get TRIA passed by Congress, so there's a lot to learn today … Let's get to it! [3:23] Interview! Janice Ochenkowski, welcome to RIMScast!  [4:04] Janice joined the Chicago Chapter of RIMS, not understanding the larger RIMS organization. She became an active member and an officer. She was President of the Chicago Chapter the year that Chicago member Art Bostwick was RIMS President. [4:55] Janice says Art was a good mentor for her. He encouraged her to follow in his footsteps to be national president. She laughed, but many years later, she did. [5:20] Janice started her risk management career in 1980; she joined the RIMS Chicago Chapter in '82 or '83. After moving through the chairs in the Chicago Chapter, she became a delegate to the RIMS Conference, started working in various committees, and moved into leadership. [5:47] Janice was elected to the Board, took on responsibilities for different chairs, and ended up in charge of Government Affairs. [6:01] Lance Ewing, the President at the time, asked the Board what roles they wanted to take. Janice said she would do anything except legislative stuff, because she didn't know anything about it. He burst out laughing, and suddenly that was her mandate. [6:31] Janice says she absolutely loved it. Jim McIntyre, who was RIMS's Washington Counsel, was a phenomenal mentor. He prepared her to testify, prepared her for meetings, and explained who she was going to meet and how it was going to work, and so on. [6:53] Janice says, from there, I went into a few other responsibilities and ended up as the President. [7:10] Janice started her career in 1980 at LaSalle Partners in real estate and financial services. There were 150 employees operating in six states. Because of Federal regulations regarding their pension work, they needed a full-time risk manager. [7:35] The legislation said they needed a risk manager but didn't explain what the risk manager needed to do. Janice had been teaching high school, and she wanted to move into business. [7:47] Janice interviewed through an employment agency with a variety of companies, and decided LaSalle Partners sounded interesting and it would be a good platform for her to get some experience and then move on. [8:02] Thirty-eight years later, she was still there, and retiring. When she retired, there were 90,000 employees in 100 countries. Janice had 17 full-time staff, globally, working for her. [8:20] Janice says LaSalle Partners started as a privately held company. Janice was one of the partners. It became a corporation and, after acquisitions, merged with Jones Lang Wootton, a UK real estate organization, and became Jones Lang LaSalle. [9:17] Janice says her career was a wild ride. She says she never could have imagined the experiences she had, the friendships she made, and the things that she learned and had opportunities to do, through her company and through RIMS. [9:36] Janice says she was able to draw links between the benefits of RIMS and the business of her business. When she went to board meetings, they asked how her RIMS work was going. She showed that being in leadership at RIMS helped her company to achieve its goals. [10:27] Janice says, when she started at RIMS, there were the local chapters, and then there were industry groups. The real estate industry group was extremely active. It was populated by very experienced real estate risk managers. They served as mentors to anyone coming on. [10:47] The group met not only during RIMS, but also in New York, in the fall, outside of the RIMS conference. Eventually, Jones Lang LaSalle supported the group's meetings and allowed them to use JLL buildings and support from technology to go forward. [11:07] Janice says, when she was going to a RIMS conference, she asked the JLL Board if there was anything they wanted her to focus on when meeting up with risk managers of their clients and vendors. [11:33] Over time, she didn't have to ask. They asked her, if you're going to your RIMS meeting, talk to this person. See if you can find out about this issue. There was connectivity between what Janice did at RIMS and supporting JLL. [12:10] Justin asks what Janice taught in high school. It was English and French. She can still speak un petit peu of French. She enjoys opportunities to speak to people in French and ordering from French menus. As a teacher, she wanted something different and moved into business. [12:42] Justin says that in over 400 RIMScast episodes, Janice might be the first guest who went from teaching and transitioned over to insurance. Janice says making lesson plans and executing them is good training for business. [13:07] Janice says she learned how to explain things. She had to translate insurance into real estate speak for JLL. She had to take real estate speak and translate it into insurance speak for underwriters and brokers. [13:22] Janice was comfortable speaking to groups because she had been speaking to unruly teenagers and getting them under control. Talking to a bunch of business people, who at least pretended to be interested, was a piece of cake. Janice says it was fun, and a good transition. [13:55] Justin brings up Janice's time as the Director of Government Affairs for RIMS. She became chair of what is now known as the RIMS External Affairs Committee. Lance Ewing nudged her into the role in the late 1990s. Then the September 11 terrorist attacks happened. [14:40] Janice says that one thing that's missing from most recollections is the immediate impact that the 9/11 terrorist attacks had. Before 9/11, there was the general perception that our borders were safe; there wasn't going to be an attack on U.S. soil. [15:15] When we saw the towers burning, when the plane went down, when the Pentagon was hit, that illusion was shattered. There was fear. We didn't know if this was the first of an aerial attack. Janice was on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, so it was a real concern for her. [15:40] Janice says, we didn't know if there was going to be an invasion or similar attacks around the country. To develop good risk management practices, the first thing you have to do is define the risk. [15:53] Janice says, we couldn't define the risk. The only thing we could do immediately was respond to the situation. She was thinking more with her Jones Lang LaSalle hat than with her RIMS hat. The entire leadership and spouses were on the West Coast doing strategic planning. [16:20] Janice says most of them operated in the Midwest and the East Coast. They had to get back, but there were no planes, no trains, and no transportation. They tried to get rental cars. So did everyone else in the world. [16:50] When they couldn't get more rental cars, they went to a used car lot and bought vans, station wagons, and whatever they could find where couples could travel together to similar places. When they got to where they were going, they sold the cars. That's how they got back. [17:15] Janice says, meanwhile, our technology folks were setting up hotlines: one hotline to figure out where people were. We had people traveling or on vacation. We didn't know where they were, and there was very limited communication. Phone lines and internet were down. [17:45] We set up a hotline. Every employee was required to call in every day for a couple of weeks, identifying where they were, whether they needed help getting back to their home, and what other resources they might need. The hotline helped them to get those resources. [18:06] The second hotline was for families. Families called that line if they were unable to reach their loved one. If the employee had called the hotline, JLL could tell the family where the employee was, how things were going, when they might get home, and take note of needs. [18:26] Janice says that's what was happening on the home front, away from the immediate needs in each of these 9/11 sites. It was only after that that you could settle back and think strategically about what it meant on a broader basis, and that's when she put her RIMS hat on. [18:49] Justin guesses that at the time, Jones Lang LaSalle had thousands of properties across the U.S., with millions of square feet. So there is the security risk at those buildings, as well. Janice agrees, absolutely. [19:04] Janice says people focus on New York and D.C., but in Kansas, Nebraska, and all around the country, everyone was in shock and preparing for the worst. [19:26] Janice says she remembers sitting on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, once they let everyone in, after a few days. There were windows all around, and her window looked out onto Lake Michigan, where all the military patrols were, over the lake. [19:52] Janice clearly remembers many times over the next several weeks sitting there and suddenly seeing a black helicopter rise into view. She could see the pilot's face, and she waved. Then it would descend. She says it was reassuring but also scary. [20:30] Justin asks about the hotlines. Janice says Jones Lang LaSalle did things collaboratively. If Technology was working on something, they brought in Risk, Legal, and HR, and they all sat down and figured it out. They were all a part of whatever strategy was needed. [20:55] Janice was involved. She was an important member of the Security Team and the Safety Team, and was involved even in the aftermath, coming up with ways in which to strengthen and protect their buildings. [21:08] People were worried about chemicals being thrown into the ventilation. So they came up with ways to protect that while still letting air into the buildings. What to do to allow people back in. All of those things had to be considered, for safety and for the practical effect on operations. [21:33] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information. [21:46] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [22:02] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [22:24] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month. [22:32] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [22:46] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Registration is open to organizational, individual, and associate RIMS members. [23:04] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [23:17] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski! [23:41] Janice says she needed to wear her RIMS hat almost immediately. She says everyone realized that there was "innocuous" language in all policies that said terrorist acts were covered. [23:57] There were no limits, sublimits, or deductibles. It was standard coverage because no one expected it to be a real issue. Then it was. There was an immediate concern as they looked at what their total exposure was. [24:14] There was the concern about what to do for new policies. There was a moratorium on policies, as there always is after a particular crisis. When they were reissued, that language was removed. That might not seem like a problem for organizations with no real risk. [24:35] Janice says, in the risk management area, there were covenants in our client contracts, from language pulled from insurance policies, that now we couldn't satisfy that requirement. We were in violation of our contract. [24:54] Janice says the more critical issues were loan agreements and mortgages. Lenders required terrorism insurance. They weren't going to take that out after 9/11. We were faced with a terrible conundrum. We were in violation of our loan agreements. [25:16] Janice says nobody moved quickly to foreclose on any of those things, but it was hanging over our heads. Unsuccessful efforts to renegotiate were going on, all across the country. Congress was absolutely unwilling to become the Federal program for terrorism. [25:39] Janice says Congress refused to consider it being another flood insurance program because that wasn't going too well. Insurers started trying to figure things out and made some limited amounts of coverage available. [25:55] At one point, globally, there was $10 million of terrorism coverage available. $10 million didn't satisfy anybody's loan requirement. Ultimately, it went up to $25 million, but it was still a problem. [26:24] Organizations like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups formed coalitions. Jim McIntyre was very helpful. He had contacts in all those groups. He inserted RIMS wherever he could. [26:49] JLL saw the basic need for what Janice was doing at RIMS, so she had carte blanche to go to Washington whenever she needed to work on these matters. These groups were able to explain to Congressional aides and the business press what things meant, in plain English. [27:33] Januce says, you tell them, this building goes into foreclosure, and the guy running the coffee shop doesn't have a job anymore. Development and construction totally stop. Nothing was being built. That impacts all the trades and unions, so they joined the coalition. [27:57] Unions became activists because their members, who thought they had jobs starting over the next several months, were now sitting on their hands with nothing to do. Small businesses set up around the potential sites had nothing happening. [28:18] Janice says there was a financial impact from that decision by insurers. It wasn't a faulty decision; they had shareholders. [28:33] Ultimately, after long discussions and negotiations, Janice testified before the President's Working Group on Terrorism, and before Congress, and met with Congressional Aides who were working on various bills, and was able to assist in passing TRIA. [28:58] TRIA wasn't perfect, but what it did was bring together the three major parties who had the most skin in that game and gave each of them a relative amount of financial responsibility in what happened. [29:12] These parties were the policyholders, with huge deductibles; insurance companies, with caps and reasonable premium allocations for risks, and the Federal Government, which came in after tens of millions of dollars had been paid out and criteria were met. [29:45] The Federal Government wasn't being capricious, or taking first-dollar risk, but was a backstop, so that there wouldn't be financial ruin and we wouldn't have a lot of bankruptcies. Imperfect as TRIA was, it solved a problem. [30:06] Janice says there have been several reauthorizations, and it has been tweaked each time to meet the issues and criteria that had to be met. Justin asks about cyber and forms of terrorism that may not be physical acts of terrorism. [30:31] Janice mentions the NBCR, for Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, and Radiological threats. It raised the issue, and there were risk management processes that were able to minimize those risks. [30:49] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [31:09] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [31:23] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [31:42] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [31:51] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski. [32:12] Janice says meeting with Congressional Aides and Policymakers on Capitol Hill was intimidating the first hundred times she did it. You're walking into these buildings that you've only seen photographs of. You're going into the offices. [32:24] Jim McIntyre had explained to her that Congressional aides have a lot of power over the bills and the language in the bills. The Congresspeople they work for look to these aides to be their technical resource. [32:42] While some people were angry that they couldn't meet with the principal; they were only going to meet with the staff, but you want to meet with the staff. [32:57] The staff will take the time to sit down with language and work with you on it, and you'll have a better chance of impacting things by developing relationships with them. It worked very well. Some of the work Janice did with Jim before 9/11 really helped. [33:22] There was some insurance legislation that was going on. Aides did not understand what it meant. Janice ran a lunch program for the aides and taught them the basics of insurance. She bought pizzas for them. Now, you can't do that because you can't buy them lunch. [33:44] Janice says they were coming to learn. Many of them were thankful because it gave them an understanding of what people were talking about and why certain things mattered. We had built some groundwork before TRIA. It helped because I already knew some of the aides. [34:00] There were already relationships. They were willing to sit down and talk with us. We were the voice of the insurance buyer. Previously, when insurance matters were discussed on the Hill, insurance companies and brokers were lobbying. This time, it was the voice of the buyer. [34:29] Janice says, We were constituents. We represented industries and organizations that were in their respective districts. Our voice became an important voice, distinct from the insurance industry. It reinforced RIMS's importance and raised our visibility on the Hill. [34:58] In 2004, Janice testified before a Senate Government Affairs Subcommittee on Insurance Brokerage Regulation regarding TRIA. Janice says, walking in, she was overcome with a sense of history. The panel was people she had seen on C-SPAN. [35:26] Janice says she was terrified she would say something wrong, that it would come out backwards, and that she would embarrass RIMS, JLL, and herself. She was used to speaking in public, but this was just different. It all went well in the end. [35:55] Janice says she had a prepared statement. Then there were five-minute questions and answers. Janice says there is a clock counting down, and when it gets to one minute, it starts flashing. She says it was a little unnerving and she stuttered a few times. [36:33] Janice says they interrupt your five minutes with questions, so your time is less. You're supposed to summarize what your position is and what you're testifying for. When you're on a panel, it's not the same as when they're conducting a hearing, accusing you of wrongdoing. [37:02] Janice says the Congress Members are trying to get information and a few sound bites to send home. It's not antagonistic. They're not trying to trip you up on anything. Once you become accustomed to it, the next time is a little easier, because you're relaxed. [37:29] In 2006, Janice appeared before the House Subcommittee on Financial Services about Insurance Modernization. Janice says it was a topic that she had a lot of comfort in speaking about. She wasn't quite as nervous about getting the facts mixed up or totally blanking. [38:05] Janice says she was part of a panel of five or six people. It's for an hour or so. They might pause if somebody has to take a call. [38:36] Janice became RIMS President soon after. [38:52] In 2012, Janice returned to Capitol Hill for a hearing before the Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing, and Community Opportunity of the Committee on Financial Services in the U.S. House of Representatives. [39:08] Janice says she always spoke in RIMS's capacity. JLL did not do any lobbying. JLL joins groups, like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups that represent their interests. [39:36] Janice says that for the 2012 visit she had a greater comfort level. It was on an issue she was comfortable with: broker compensation. It was easier to discuss. She still had the same anxieties about being in Congress, in that room, with all the history, speaking to icons. [40:23] Justin says that TRIA was eventually passed. It's been reauthorized a couple of times. It has made a difference for companies and for society, at large. Janice says it raised RIMS's profile in the eyes of the others who were participating and testifying. [40:46] Janice says RIMS got a lot of press. The Wall Street Journal and the business press, in addition to insurance publications, presented information about RIMS. On a corporate level, when Janice's name was printed in association with JLL, clients asked about it. [41:18] Janice says, with things like TRIA, or general insurance questions, clients would go to their risk managers and ask them to contact me to get information. This delighted JLL because it was a closer client relationship. JLL had an initiative to provide specialist experts for clients. [42:23] Janice says if you go before Congress, the most important thing is to do your homework. Even if you're comfortable with public speaking, don't expect you can ad-lib to a Committee. Prepare, prepare, prepare, and understand the pros and cons. Practice with potential questions. [43:06] Janice practices loudly to learn what word combinations she stumbles over. Then she removes them from her presentation. She says when you're more prepared, you're more self-confident. That makes you a better presenter. Justin says, also, rehearse in different places. [44:29] Janice takes a somewhat formal draft and then "Janicizes" it. She writes it in a way that's more conversational, as she would speak, rather than reading something formally. That makes you more comfortable, so you're a better presenter. [45:22] Janice says it seems that everybody knows when it's time to pass the baton to the next generation. She loved what she did, and she did it well; she was open to new ideas, but she was standing in the way of the next generation of leaders moving forward. She didn't want to do that. [45:55] Janice says that people with new ideas, generational ideas, who could relate to what's coming up, need to be allowed to move forward. [46:12] Janice says, think about what's happening in Washington. People need to move aside to let a new generation of leaders come in. Otherwise, you're missing that energy and enthusiasm of a new group of leaders. That's life. You move away and let the new guy in. [47:05] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience." [47:16] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." [47:26] On October 8th, Global Risk Consultants will present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now." [47:35] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight." [47:44] On October 22nd, Zurich will present "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders." [47:53] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon. [47:58] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [48:05] RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. All three webinars are complimentary for all and are available through the Webinars Page on RIMS.org/Webinars. [48:21] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski! [48:34] Justin says Janice became RIMS President during the housing and mortgage crisis of 2007-2008. Janice says it's something risk managers need to think about. When there is a crisis, you don't step away from it; you step into it. You show leadership.  [49:17] Janice says she was able to help resolve something that was one of the most critical issues at that time. At the beginning, the financial crisis focused on AIG and its vulnerability to bankruptcy, and what that meant to the entire insurance industry. [49:47] Janice says it was really difficult because AIG was a major insurer for almost every large corporation in the U.S. and globally. Suddenly, senior board members were wondering if their claims in process would be paid. Will AIG go bankrupt, and what will happen to those claims? [50:15] They wondered if they should cancel their policies mid-term and underwrite with someone else, and if so, who? What will the financial impact of that be? Boards were coming to risk managers with those questions. Janice had those questions herself. [50:35] Janice says we were totally unprepared to answer them. We didn't have any more information than you were reading in The Wall Street Journal. Janice and the phenomenal RIMS staff put together a series of podcasts, the first of which was in three weeks. [50:59] Janice says they got sponsors and speakers. They contacted experts in various areas and senior executives at the major insurers, including AIG, and insurance brokerages. They were willing to sit and talk to their clients and to be shown as thought leaders in the area. [51:20] Janice says at the time there were 1,000 talking heads saying what should be done, but there were very few facts. You can't form a good risk management response to anything until you have facts; until you have data you can rely on and move forward with. [51:50] Janice says RIMS strove to provide facts. When they did the podcasts, they did not only invite RIMS members. They sent invitations to the C-Suites of major corporations. They told The Wall Street Journal and other business publications they were running these podcasts. [52:06] There was a series of podcasts. People tuned in. They were interested. RIMS established credibility with the information they provided. RIMS gave them tools and told them what to think about and consider, and what the ramifications could be, and let them decide for themselves. [52:55] Janice says that it seemed to be a popular series, and it raised RIMS's profile within the general business community and the C-Suite, even in areas that didn't have dedicated risk managers who reported to the C-Suite. It was one of the most important things RIMS did. [53:25] Janice says, then they went to Congress and talked to them about solvency and more. Also, Janice says they kept in touch with Congressional staff between meetings. The key to relationships on the Hill is meeting with aides. Many move from one Congressperson to another. [53:49] You keep up the relationships, and that gives your organization credibility. You're there consistently. Once an aide called and asked her to help define risk management for a piece of legislation. They had no real idea. She helped them craft something reasonable but not onerous. [55:14] Justin brings up the RIMS Annual Legislative Summit. They have a presence on Capitol Hill every year. It's a two-day or two-and-a-half-day event, so members who attend can get onboarded, know their talking points, and know the issues. Janice elaborates on preparation. [56:15] Janice says the Legislative Summit brought a lot of people from local RIMS chapters into the External Affairs Committee. That was a good pipeline. [56:31] Justin says his experience in 2018, for the reauthorization of the National Flood Insurance Program, was everything Janice mentioned. There was a small card with talking points, there was a rehearsal, coaching from professional lobbyists, and industry leadership. [57:10] Justin says it was a great experience. They met with aides, brought maps, and showed flood zones. They had the talking points down, and it was effective. It was one of the best experiences he could have had as a new RIMS staff member. It was excellent. [57:59] Justin remarks that Janice was the right person for the job. Her experience at Jones Lang LaSalle was terrific. Janice was a lifer. She retired in 2018, after 38 years. [58:46] Janice says risk management has certain basic things, but you have to evolve with the times. You can't resist change; you have to look at change as an opportunity. [59:00] If you're a smart risk manager, you're going to lean your company into that opportunity. Janice says, when people were working in her generation of RIMS, it wasn't unusual to spend a career at one or two companies. There was stability. You didn't need to leave to be promoted. [59:26] Janice became a Partner. When they were incorporated, she became an officer. When she ended her career, she was an Executive Vice President and part of the Global Operating Team, which set strategies for all JLL businesses. They reported directly to the Board. [59:51] Janice says risk management had a fairly high profile. New risk officers may not have that opportunity because the business world is demanding that you move every three to five years to get promoted. [1:00:23] Janice says whatever works for you and your organization and helps you move forward is what your personal strategy needs to be. Janice says, not only those who died in the towers, in the Pentagon, and in the field, but those who walked away with scars, visible and invisible. [1:00:40] Justin takes a moment to address and honor everyone who lost their lives during the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks, on its 25th anniversary. [1:01:04] Janice speaks of the first responders and volunteers who rushed in to help and walked away with lifelong consequences from the materials that they inhaled. [1:01:19] Janice says, We just need to spend a few minutes on 9/12 remembering them and making sure that the relevance and their sacrifices are noted. [1:01:36] Janice, you've given us so much inspiration, and told us what it took for you to be an effective RIMS President. To anyone thinking about pursuing a leadership role at RIMS, starting out now, what advantages do they have to position them for success as a RIMS leader? [1:02:06] Janice says, the most important benefit that exists today, that didn't when I was starting, is technology. Today we do Zoom calls. Getting together and communicating was much more onerous. [1:02:23] It wasn't as easy to get people from across the country together and work collaboratively. We can do that easily now. People are taking advantage of that. They're using social media to spread ideas. [1:02:41] Janice says her generation struggled with social media. She did it because that's what she had to do. You can't stagnate. You've got to move with the changes as they come and figure out how to use those changes to move yourself forward. [1:02:58] What will technology and AI mean to risk management? What will they mean to RIMS? How is RIMS going to use AI? How is RIMS leadership going to use AI to promote what the important basics of risk management are and can be? Those are things you have to consider. [1:03:18] In order to be an effective leader at RIMS, you have to get the absolute support of your organization. You've got to connect those dots. You've got to show how and why your leadership at RIMS is going to benefit your company. [1:03:42] Telling your leadership you're going to a conference is not going to convince them that there's anything important going on. [1:03:56] The way to convince them is to tell them there's a conference. These are the sessions that they're going to have. This is the speaker they will have. That speaker is someone I think will tell me information about how to address this issue. [1:04:13] This session is about an issue that we faced last year. I want to go and see how others are doing with it. The next step is to come back and write a note telling leaders what you learned in that session. Ask, Can I meet with you to talk about these things I think we can implement? [1:04:42] You're showing that you're taking the information you're learning and using it to improve risk management in your company, and more importantly, the business of the business you are working in. [1:05:00] When Janice was President, she would visit a chapter and ask everybody who's in the insurance industry to raise their hands. They would raise their hands. Then she told them, no, you use the products of the insurance industry, but you are your company's representative. [1:05:51] Janice Ochenkowski, thank you so much for all your time and your insight today. It's such a pleasure to meet you face-to-face, and I hope we get to do that in person at a future RIMS event. [1:06:06] Special thanks again to former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski for joining us here on RIMScast! This was a lot of fun, and there are plenty of great takeaways about TRIA, RIMS, public speaking, and honoring the victims of the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks. [1:05:26] It was a real pleasure to meet Janice Ochenkowski, one of our most revered leaders. [1:06:30] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [1:06:48] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [1:07:04] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [1:07:17] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [1:07:29] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026 ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. 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RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026 "RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24" | Complimentary for All "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau" "When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower" "RIMS Advocacy in 2026 with Mark Prysock"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) "AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company "Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL "Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL "The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant "Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent "Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant "The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL "Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs | Sponsored by Zurich "Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich "What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor "How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog "Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Janice Ochenkowski, Former RIMS President   Special introduction by RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.