Ep 409 No One Wins Alone: Lessons in Partnership from Escape Room Experts David and Lisa Spira

Zach sits down with David and Lisa, long-time partners and leaders in the escape room world, to explore what thousands of hours of collaborative problem-solving have taught them about communication, conflict, and teamwork. They talk about why escape rooms reward kindness over brilliance, why “being right” is a losing strategy, and how the habits that help teams escape under pressure are the same ones that help couples thrive in real life. From debriefing mistakes without blame to celebrating small wins—even when you lose—this conversation offers a surprisingly practical framework for building resilient, collaborative relationships. Key Takeaways Escape rooms reward communication and kindness, not intelligence or dominance The fastest way to lose—both in games and relationships—is trying to win alone Healthy teams normalize double-checking, feedback, and shared responsibility Conflict works best when it happens after the pressure, not during it Strong partnerships focus on learning from mistakes, not litigating them Celebrating small wins matters—even when the overall outcome isn’t perfect Mutual respect and curiosity are foundational to long-term collaboration Guest Info David & LisaPartners in life and business, David and Lisa are leading voices in the escape room community. They have played more than 1,300 escape rooms worldwide, built a global community of players, and help people experience collaborative play through reviews, tours, and industry leadership. They are the team behind Room Escape Artist, a trusted resource for discovering high-quality escape rooms around the world, and they also run curated escape room tours that bring players together across cities and countries. Website: https://roomescapeartist.com Email: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Courtney and Nathan Boyer, a couple married for over twenty years, parenting three kids, and living overseas on a U.S. military base in Germany. Courtney and Nathan share the story of a major turning point in their marriage—when Courtney asked to open the relationship after years of suppressing her needs, identity, and desire. Raised in a strict religious culture, Courtney explains how she spent much of her marriage prioritizing her husband’s career and her role as a mother, slowly becoming resentful and disconnected from herself. Nathan, a military physician, reflects on how his drive for achievement and constant “next step” mindset left him unaware of how much was being lost along the way. The couple walks through the six-month conversation that followed Courtney’s request—marked by resistance, fear, patience, and an honest willingness to walk away if they couldn’t find a way forward together. Nathan shares what it was like to realize he is deeply monogamous at his core, while Courtney names polyamory as an essential part of her identity rather than a lifestyle choice. They also talk candidly about shame, public backlash, parenting through non-traditional choices, and the surprising ways opening the relationship strengthened their emotional and sexual connection. Throughout the conversation, Zach highlights the importance of long-form conversations, adult responsibility, and the courage it takes to renegotiate a marriage rather than quietly disappear inside it. This episode is a nuanced, human look at love, consent, identity, and what it means to grow without abandoning one another. Key Takeaways Long-term marriages go through distinct cycles tied to life stages, not just emotions Suppressing needs often leads to resentment, not stability Identity shifts don’t happen overnight—they require long conversations Consent includes the real option to walk away Monogamy and polyamory can coexist in one marriage with clarity and care Erotic energy and trust can grow through expansion, not just exclusivity Adult relationships require ongoing renegotiation, not silent endurance Guest Info Courtney Boyer Relationship coach, author, and creator behind The Monopoly Couple. Courtney writes and speaks about identity, desire, religious conditioning, and non-traditional relationships. Website: https://www.courtneyboyercoaching.com/ Book: Opened (launching February 17)https://www.courtneyboyercoaching.com/store/p/opened Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themonopolycouple/ Nathan Boyer Military physician and longtime partner to Courtney.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Glenn and Jodie, a married couple whose relationship has been shaped by cancer, caregiving, entrepreneurship, and a shared commitment to facing life side-by-side. Their story includes an early breast cancer diagnosis shortly after getting engaged, multiple recurrences over the years, and a present-day reality of living with cancer as a chronic condition. Through it all, Glenn and Jodie describe how the illness became something external to their marriage—an adversary they face together rather than a wedge between them. They talk openly about caregiving, helplessness, perspective, and how repeated medical crises stripped away the impulse to sweat small things. Glenn reflects on learning how to show up when he couldn’t “fix” anything, while Jodie shares how being cared for reshaped her understanding of partnership and trust. The conversation also explores the everyday friction of working together—different wiring, different priorities, and Glenn’s self-identified ADD—along with Zach’s reframing of conditions like cancer and ADHD as things couples must externalize rather than personalize. They close by sharing the work they now do together through their businesses and podcast, Couples, Inc., where they help couples who run businesses navigate boundaries, roles, and relationship health. This episode is a grounded, hopeful look at what it means to fight the right thing—and to stay on the same team over the long haul. Key Takeaways Externalize the problem – Cancer, ADHD, and other conditions aren’t your partner; they’re what you face together. Caregiving is connection – Showing up consistently matters more than having solutions. Perspective changes priorities – Repeated health crises reduced conflict around “small stuff.” Different wiring isn’t disrespect – Productivity styles and attention differences require collaboration, not blame. Mindset precedes tactics – Tools only work when used without resentment or superiority. Play the long game – Healthy relationships focus on reducing the same pain points year over year. Being on the same team is intentional – Unity doesn’t happen automatically; it’s practiced. Guest Info Glenn & Jodie Glenn and Jodie are married partners in life and business. They co-own Living Pink Communications, a marketing firm inspired by Jodie’s ongoing experience with breast cancer, and host the Couples, Inc. podcast, which supports couples who run businesses together. Website: https://livingpinkcommunications.com/ Podcast: https://couplesincpodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with couples therapist and author Colette Jane Fehr and her husband Steve Fehr for a candid conversation about second marriage, difference, repair, and what therapy really does—and doesn’t—solve. Colette and Steve met later in life after very different first marriages and divorces. She’s an emotionally expressive, extroverted therapist from New York; he’s a reserved, analytical CPA from Kentucky. On paper, they couldn’t be more different—but from their first night talking for hours at a diner, something clicked. They talk openly about blending families with four teenage daughters, the strain that season put on their marriage, and how therapy became not a last resort but an ongoing resource. Steve reflects on learning—slowly—to speak up before resentment builds, while Colette names her own pattern of over-explaining and chasing understanding when she feels disconnected. The conversation explores how repair actually works in real marriages: who apologizes first, why pauses matter, how shame gets in the way, and why growth is measured in years—not moments. They also share what they’re navigating now: demanding careers, a major book launch, and the need to reinvest in their relationship after a season of borrowing against it. This episode is an honest look at what long-term partnership looks like when both people stay willing to learn, practice, and keep showing up—imperfectly. Key Takeaways Therapy isn’t a referee – Real change happens when each person does their own work, not when someone “wins.” Quiet creates distance – Avoiding small conversations leads to resentment and emotional shutdown. Pausing prevents damage – Taking space can be protective when emotions run hot. Repair matters more than perfection – Apologies don’t require total agreement—just ownership. Different nervous systems need different timing – One partner may need space while the other seeks immediate connection. Growth is gradual – Being better than five years ago counts—and so does staying open to future growth. Relationships require reinvestment – Work seasons drain connection unless time and intention are restored. Guest Info Colette Jane Fehr Couples therapist, speaker, podcast host, and author of The Cost of Quiet, releasing February 2026 https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book. Colette specializes in helping individuals and couples break patterns of avoidance and learn self-connected communication. Website: https://www.colettejanefehr.com Steve Fehr CPA and finance professional with over 30 years of experience. Steve brings a grounded, analytical perspective to conversations about communication, emotional labor, and long-term partnership. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach looks back on a standout year of conversations by revisiting some of the most meaningful, memorable, and instructive moments from past episodes.  Zach introduces each segment, offering context and reflection on why these moments matter and how they connect to the bigger picture of relational health. Across these clips, you’ll hear stories of intimacy rebuilt, grief held with humor, trust repaired, creativity sustained, and partnerships strengthened through intentional work. Whether you’re catching up, revisiting favorites, or discovering episodes you missed, this episode offers a thoughtful snapshot of what the show has been exploring all year: how real people do the real work of staying connected. Couples featured in this episode include: Susan & Tim Bratton — Episode 394https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-394 Kimberly Crossman & Tom Walsh — Episode 396https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-396 Karen Whitehouse & Helen McLaughlin — Episode 401https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-401 Tarah & EJ Kerwin — Episode 368https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-368 Baya Voce & Emmy Bush — Episode 374https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-374 Additional episodes mentioned by Zach: Victoria Shalet & Adam James — Episode 379https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-379 Brian & Toby — Episode 392https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-392 Billy & Melissa Hokacker — Episode 384https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-384 Jennifer & Andres — Episode 391https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-391 Zach’s Mom & Stepdad — Episode 383https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-383 Ira & Andrea — Multi-Episode Arc (Episodes 307–399)https://marriagetherapyradio.com/ep-397 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Dana and Sean, a couple whose nearly 30-year relationship includes teenage pregnancy, early marriage, deep faith, repeated infidelity, and an extraordinary rebuilding process that reshaped their marriage from the ground up. Dana and Sean met as children at church, reconnected in high school, and married young after an unplanned pregnancy—long before either of them knew who they were or how marriage actually worked. Pressured by religious expectations and carrying unresolved childhood trauma, they entered marriage already fractured. What followed were years of struggle: emotional immaturity, financial stress, multiple affairs, and seasons where staying together felt impossible. Instead of walking away, they chose the slow, painful work of rebuilding. Sean entered therapy to understand himself before trying to understand his wife. Dana learned to confront her own patterns, pride, and expectations—anchoring herself in faith, presence, and radical honesty. Together, they rejected shallow answers and chose accountability, counseling, and humility. Now parents of four children (ages 26–16), Dana and Sean reflect on how faith became not a rulebook but a living presence—the “third strand” that sustained them when their marriage felt dead. They talk candidly about selfishness, stubborn hope, and why staying isn’t about endurance but about vision: building a marriage their children would actually want to emulate. This conversation is raw, grounded, and deeply hopeful—a reminder that resurrection is possible, even after years of damage. Key Takeaways Early marriage magnifies unhealed trauma – Getting married young without self-knowledge set them up for struggle from the start. Staying isn’t passive – Rebuilding required therapy, in-home separation, humility, and consistent effort from both partners. Self-work precedes relationship work – Sean learned that understanding himself was essential before he could truly love Dana. Faith as presence, not pressure – Their spirituality evolved from rigid rules to lived connection and daily surrender. Infidelity doesn’t have to be the end – While not prescribing staying, they show what repair can look like when both partners commit to real change. Love languages come from childhood – Sean gives gifts; Dana craves quality time—both rooted in how they were raised. Resurrection is real – A marriage can be “dead dead” and still come back stronger the second time around. Vision sustains commitment – They stayed not just for the kids, but to model a marriage worth choosing. Guest Info Dana is a marriage coach, speaker, and host of the podcast Rebuilding Us, where she shares honest conversations about infidelity, faith, and marriage repair. She is known for her commitment to authenticity and refusal to offer shallow advice. Website: https://danache.com/ Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/mrsdanache/?hl=en⁠ Sean is a firefighter who prefers life behind the scenes. His willingness to engage in therapy, self-reflection, and accountability played a central role in their rebuilding process. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Justin and Kylie Coulson, parents of six daughters and co-creators of the Happy Families movement. What unfolds is a deeply honest conversation about failure, repair, intention, and the long road toward building a family culture that actually feels good to live in. Justin shares a pivotal early-parenting moment that became the turning point of his life: a loss of control with one of their young children that forced him to confront who he was becoming as a father and husband. Kylie describes the clarity she felt in that moment—her love for Justin alongside her unwavering commitment to her children’s safety—and how that line in the sand changed everything. From there, the conversation traces Justin’s radical career pivot from radio to psychology, the years of study and sacrifice that followed, and the birth of the Happy Families philosophy. Together, Justin and Kylie unpack what “happy” actually means—not the absence of hardship, but the presence of connection, safety, and shared joy, especially around the family table. They share the simple but powerful structures they use to stay aligned: weekly check-ins, quarterly retreats, and a three-question framework that replaces blame with collaboration. Through stories of totalled cars, hard choices, and repaired moments, Justin and Kylie show how families are built—not through perfection, but through practised responses, accountability, and love that stays bigger than the mess. Key Takeaways We always get to choose our response – Circumstances don’t dictate behavior; intention does. People matter, things don’t – Safety, connection, and relationship always come before stuff. Happy families are built, not inherited – Skills like communication, repair, and emotional regulation are learnable. Hardship doesn’t cancel happiness – Joy is found in meaning, not ease. Repair builds trust – Conflict isn’t the enemy; unresolved conflict is. Structure creates safety – Regular check-ins and retreats help families stay aligned. Blame kills collaboration – Asking “How can we support each other?” changes everything. The table is the vision – A family that wants to be together is the real measure of success. Guest Info Justin & Kylie Coulson Justin Coulson is a parenting expert, author, psychologist, and founder of Happy Families (https://happyfamilies.com.au/). He hosts Australia’s most-downloaded parenting podcast, The Happy Families Podcast, and appears on national television. Kylie Coulson is his partner in parenting and purpose, bringing clarity, steadiness, and lived wisdom to their work together. They are parents of six daughters, grandparents to one (and counting), and passionate advocates for intentional family culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Kristan and Brook Seaford, a couple whose marriage was transformed overnight when Kristan contracted a rare and catastrophic infection in 2013. What began as strep throat and the flu quickly escalated into pneumonia, sepsis, organ failure, septic shock, and ultimately the loss of both hands, one foot, and part of the other—a 108-day medical ordeal across six hospitals that changed her life and their family forever. But what unfolds in this interview is not just a medical story—it’s a relationship story. Kristan describes the grief of returning home to a toddler who no longer recognized her, the ache of losing the physical abilities that once defined her identity, and the spiritual shift from fierce independence to complete dependence on God. Brook shares his own transformation as the family’s roles flipped overnight—learning to parent five children, run a home he once took for granted, and support a partner rebuilding her life. Together, Kristan and Brook talk about humor as survival, forgiveness as practice, community as a lifeline, and the unexpected gifts that emerged from unimaginable loss. They explore how their affection, partnership, and independence have evolved, how they’ve adapted to enjoy life together in new ways, and how their children have grown stronger, more empathetic, and more capable because of what their family lived through. Kristan now speaks publicly about resilience, faith, and healing—and this conversation demonstrates the courage and compassion at the heart of her work. Key Takeaways A medical miracle and a marital transformation – Kristan survived sepsis and organ failure, losing limbs but gaining a deeper sense of gratitude, faith, and purpose. Roles reversed overnight – Brook shifted from traditional breadwinner to full-time caregiver and household manager, discovering new respect for the invisible labor of parenting and home life. Anger and grief show up differently – She grieved deeply but rarely felt anger; he felt anger for her, mourning all that had been taken from someone he loved. Rebuilding attachment takes intention – Their 13-month-old daughter was terrified when Kristan came home—so Kristan slept on the nursery floor for months to rebuild their bond. Humor is holy – Dark humor and playful banter became a coping mechanism for both the trauma and the awkward social moments that followed. The story shaped their kids – Their five children grew more independent, responsible, and compassionate as they adapted to new family rhythms. Partnership evolves – Though physical limitations changed what activities they can share, they now intentionally seek “new fun” together—breweries, museums, comedy clubs, creative classes, and cruises instead of scuba diving. Her disability makes her a better counselor – Kristan says she isn’t a good mom, wife, or therapist despite what happened—but in many ways because of it. Guest Info Kristan Seaford Speaker, therapist, author, and survivor. Kristan shares her story of catastrophic illness, limb loss, resilience, and faith through her counseling practice and speaking engagements. Learn more at https://www.kristanseaford.com/. Brook Seaford Pastor, father, and caregiver whose perspective brings honesty, steadiness, and depth to the conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Karen Whitehouse and Helen McLaughlin, the married duo behind the cult-hit podcast Who Shat on the Floor at My Wedding? https://www.whoshatontheflooratmywedding.com/ What began as a deeply confusing—and slightly sinister—incident on their wedding boat (“the matrimonial turd,” as Karen lovingly calls it) became a three-year dinner-party story that neither of them could stop telling. Their friends couldn’t stop talking about it either. Eventually, with Helen’s wholehearted encouragement (and financial backing), the couple turned their whodunnit into a comedy podcast—one that later went viral, beat Joe Rogan for a week, and now brings joy to listeners around the world. Karen and Helen share how the project grew from a joke into a mission: spreading joy, escapism, and silliness during some of the hardest seasons of their lives. They talk candidly about infertility, grief, bad therapy, moving from Amsterdam to a tiny English village, and the emotional evolution that shifted them from distraction to genuine self-work. Their chemistry is undeniable: they tease each other, interrupt each other, apologize quickly, and know exactly how to hold space when things get tough. Together, they explore how detective work mirrors relationship work—don’t make assumptions, stay curious, pause your biases—and how “learning each other’s love languages” helped them survive both big heartbreak and small bickers. It’s a conversation full of heart, humor, British slang, and surprisingly profound insights about partnership. Key Takeaways Comedy and curiosity can transmute pain – Turning their wedding mystery into a podcast helped them process, connect, and bring comfort to listeners going through dark times. Don’t make assumptions – Their detective work taught them that bias blinds you… in crime-solving and in conflict with your partner. Joy is a choice – Both see “spreading joy” as part of their life purpose, especially after Helen’s grief and Karen’s infertility journey. Learn each other’s triggers – Helen’s fear of abandonment and Karen’s need for praise once clashed; learning their love languages changed everything. Apology is a superpower – A small bicker resolved quickly after Karen simply said: “I have to apologize.” Big life transitions shift emotional bandwidth – Moving from Amsterdam’s buzz to the English countryside forced them to slow down and actually feel their feelings. Avoid two bottles of white wine – Their worst arguments were fueled by it. (“Anything else is fine!”) Support > solutions – During IVF heartbreak, grief, and major transitions, what mattered most was showing up for each other with compassion. Guest Info Karen Whitehouse & Helen McLaughlin Karen and Helen are the creators and voices behind the global hit podcast Who Shat on the Floor at My Wedding?, a comedic documentary series investigating a very real crime from their own wedding day. Season 3 continues their legacy of solving listener-submitted “comedy crimes” with their signature unqualified-detective charm. They live in the English countryside, where Helen works in cybersecurity and studies forex trading for fun (yes—really), and Karen is on the cusp of becoming a full-time comedy-podcast producer. Their shared mission: spread joy, silliness, and a lot of laughter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marking the 400th episode of Marriage Therapy Radio, Zach takes the mic solo to reflect on eight years of podcasting, lessons from working with couples, and what it really means to be a grownup in your relationship. He shares behind-the-scenes insights from the recent three-part series with the husband and the wife (Ira and Andrea), explaining how their courage and vulnerability helped listeners see that change starts with small, consistent choices. Using their story as a lens, Zach revisits his two-part framework for relationship success: Be a grownup – Show up as your wise, mature self who can manage disappointment, own mistakes, and stay grounded. Do more of what your partner likes (and less of what they don’t). From there, Zach explores the miracle question, a therapeutic exercise that helps couples (and families) imagine what success looks like before it happens, and offers practical advice for navigating Thanksgiving, holidays, and the everyday moments that define marriage. He also reflects on his own reparenting journey through five years of sobriety, the lessons of risk-taking (inspired by watching football and realizing you don’t always have to “punt”), and the idea that “nothing changes if nothing changes.” This heartfelt solo episode blends gratitude, humor, and practical wisdom—a reminder that progress in love and life doesn’t require perfection, just a willingness to keep making your relationship a little better today than it was yesterday. Key Takeaways The two secrets to healthy relationships: Be a grownup. Do more of what your partner likes and less of what they don’t. The “miracle question” – Ask what it would look like if the next season (or even this weekend) went exactly right; use that as your roadmap. Nothing changes if nothing changes – Progress requires choosing differently, again and again. Be intentional with holidays – Set expectations, manage alcohol and boundaries, and choose gratitude. Reparenting is ongoing work – Healing old patterns is part of growing up emotionally and relationally. Change your relationship with risk – Sometimes you don’t need to punt; you can go for it. Better is the goal – Therapy, marriage, and life don’t have to be “all better.” Just better than before. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices