How trauma became a status symbol

Is wanting to be rich selfish? Does making money require exploiting other people? Or can the pursuit of wealth actually benefit society? In this episode guest host Sally Herships speaks with philosopher Jason Brennan about his book, Why It's OK to Want to Be Rich. Jason makes the case that both wanting money and earning money are signs that we’re creating value for society. In this conversation, they explore why society believes money corrupts relationships, what wealthy individuals owe to society, and the cultural differences around money and wealth. This episode was produced in partnership with Vox's Future Perfect. Host: Sally Herships, journalist and director of the audio program at Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism. (Find Sally’s work here). Guest: Jason Brennan, professor of philosophy and public affairs at Georgetown University’s McDonough School of Business. We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/member Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Gray Area is taking a break today — but we’ve got something special for you. We’re dropping an episode from one of our favorite podcasts, Unexplainable from Vox. In it, host Sally Helm considers whether or not it’s ethical to kill lantern flies, an invasive species that has gained a foothold on the East Coast of the US.In the episode Sally explores what we owe other living creatures, how squishing bugs changes us, and what we should do when there is not a single clear moral path. We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We were told that airing our personal trauma in public would set us free. Instead, we got “the trauma script,” celebrity branding, and performative empathy. In today's episode, guest host Christine Emba talks with cultural theorist and professor Catherine Liu, author of Traumatized: The New Politics of Public Suffering. In this scathing book, Catherine argues that our modern obsession with the "trauma script" isn't a radical act of liberation, but rather a distraction from widening economic inequality. They discuss why identity pluralism has eclipsed class struggle, how public therapy speak undermines democratic debate, and why we must move away from commodified self-absorption to focus on collective political and economic change. Guest Host Christine Emba, columnist and author Guest: Catherine Liu, author of Traumatized: The New Politics of Public Suffering We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today's episode, Vox senior reporter and producer Miles Bryan talks with writer Daniel Kolitz about his piece for The Baffler, "Paid Phones." Kolitz explains what it felt like to be among the first wave of workers displaced by generative AI. The two of them talked about how fintech payday loan apps use hidden fees and subscriptions to profit off of desperate borrowers, and how an online community on Reddit is organizing a quiet resistance against predatory lenders.  Guest Host: Miles Bryan, Vox Senior Producer and Reporter Guest: Daniel Kolitz, author of Paid Phones . We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What should a college teach? How to think? How to find a career? How to be a good citizen? What about how to acquire money, influence, and power? In today’s episode, guest host Bryan Walsh speaks to journalist and writer Theo Baker about his investigation into Stanford University, where Baker was an undergrad student at the time. He entered the school as a bright-eye freshman, eager to build a career in tech. He left disillusioned by the school’s culture. His book reveals an insidious relationship between Silicon Valley and Stanford, where power, money, and success are prized higher than ethics, education, and the wellbeing of students. Guest Host: Bryan Walsh, Senior writer, Coefficient Giving Guest: Theo Baker, author of How to Rule the World: An Education in Power at Stanford University We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why does it feel so hard to start a family today? How much of that is truly a personal choice? In this episode of The Gray Area, guest host Christine Emba sits down with journalist Anna Louie Sussman to discuss her new book, Inconceivable: The Impossibility of Family in an Age of Uncertainty. Together, they look past the surface-level "cost of living" arguments to explore how economic volatility, climate anxiety, and the commodification of reproduction are reshaping the way millennials and Gen Z think about parenthood. Guest Host Christine Emba, columnist and author Guest: Anna Luise Sussman, author Inconceivable: The Impossibility of Family in an Age of Uncertainty We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is "adulthood" a moving target? For millennials, hitting the milestones of the past — homeownership, secure careers, and financial independence — feels tougher than ever. We aren't just having our individual midlife crises; we are simultaneously navigating economic, cultural, and existential crises too. Guest host Jonquilyn Hill sits down with Amil Niazi, columnist at The Cut, to explore why this stage of life feels so precarious. From the domino effect of the 2008 financial crisis and the collapse of the traditional career path, to the pressures of the "sandwich generation" — caretaking for both children and aging parents — we break down why the millennial experience is fundamentally different from generations past. Host: Jonquilyn Hill, host of Explain It To Me Guest: Amil Niazi, columnist The Cut We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you could change anything about your personality, anything at all, what would it be? And why would you want to change it? Writer Olga Khazan spent a year trying to answer those questions, and documented the experience in her new book Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change. In this episode, which originally aired in March of 2025, Sean speaks with Olga about the science of personality change, the work it takes to change yourself, and what makes up a personality, anyway. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Olga Khazan, author of Me, But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change. We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’ve all heard that "sitting is the new smoking," but the research behind that phrase goes much deeper. How bad is sitting for you really? In this episode guest host Bryan Walsh is joined by Manoush Zomorodi — host of NPR’s TED Radio Hour and author of Body Electric — to explore how our sedentary, screen-filled lives are reshaping our physical health from the neck down. Manoush shares findings from her own clinical trial, where she partnered with scientists to determine the minimum amount of movement the human body actually needs to function. Whether you're a desk jockey or a parent concerned about screen time, this conversation offers a practical, science-backed approach to reclaiming your physical health in a digital world. Guest Host: Bryan Walsh, Senior writer, Coefficient Giving Guest: Manoush Zomorodi, Host, TED Radio Hour and author of Body Electric. We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are we truly alone in the universe? Despite the lack of hard evidence, belief in aliens and UFOs, officially known as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), has shifted from the fringes to the center of mainstream culture. In this episode of The Gray Area, host Jonquilyn Hill is joined by Adam Kirsch, senior editor at The Atlantic and author of the new book We Want to Believe: How Aliens Went Mainstream and Why It Matters. They explore why our fascination with extraterrestrial life persists and what that need to believe tells us about our current relationship with authority, scientific expertise, and even spirituality. The search for aliens has become the ultimate self-portrait of humanity. Host: Jonquilyn Hill, host of Explain It To Me Guest: Adam Kirsch, Senior editor, The Atlantic and author of We Want to Believe We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices