Episode 64 - Following the Bison

In Episode 71, Denise and Jackie catch up after a brief hiatus, with Denise fresh off a four-day company retreat in New Orleans. Denise shares her experiences hosting an in-person 12-step meeting at the retreat, providing a safe, grounding space for people to navigate social anxiety and temptation in a town built for indulgence. She also opens up about a touching new tradition initiated by Compass leadership, where personalized, deeply moving letters were distributed to all attendees.Jackie shares her recent week balancing grad school life, Halloween festivities, and practicing social boundaries. From skipping elaborate costume-making to inventing a portable "girl dinner" charcuterie setup in a metal tackle box, Jackie highlights the importance of managing personal energy. The episode wraps up with a nostalgic look back at Denise's wild Halloween memories from the mid-1980s that ultimately led to her sobriety journey, closing with their signature gratitude practice and a reminder to drink water.Key Times:00:00:52 Welcome back and Denise's return from the New Orleans company retreat00:02:29 Hosting an in-person 12-step meeting in New Orleans to support sobriety00:08:12 A powerful new tradition: Personal letters of gratitude and recognition at the retreat00:11:30 Navigating social events, drag queen parties, and finding community safety00:17:00 Jackie's grad school life, Halloween costumes, and portable "girl dinner"00:23:49 Managing burnout, fall melancholy, and upcoming time changes00:25:05 Stepping into leadership and feeling secure in your place at the table00:31:00 A wild 1980s Halloween flashback and Denise's path to sobrietyTopics Covered:Navigating sobriety and social anxiety during corporate retreats in high-temptation citiesCompass company culture, management appreciation letters, and feeling seenBalancing grad school, social obligations, and protecting personal energyCreative and low-stress costume solutions (the portable "girl dinner" tackle box)Stepping out of impostor syndrome and feeling confident in leadershipFall time changes, seasonal melancholy, and self-compassionDenise's 1980s Halloween bottom-out story and her journey to recoveryClosing gratitude and 5-4-3-2-1 grounding practiceFollow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In Episode 70, Denise and Jackie reach a major milestone by welcoming their very first guest to the show: creative collaborator, publisher, and strategist Kim Agnew! The trio opens up about their origin story, tracing back to a chance encounter in a "Boss Ladies" networking circle and a memorable window-roll-down greeting in Santa Monica that sparked years of deep friendship and creative partnership.Kim shares her journey from working at the height of New York magazine and advertising publishing, including high-profile roles at Ralph Lauren and Martha Stewart, to seeking freedom and fresh air in Santa Monica following the paradigm shift of 9/11. She reflects on what drew her to Denise's initial vision for reimagining the 12 steps, offering a behind-the-scenes look at how she intuitively guides the creative process by listening to where the energy lights up. The conversation touches on the power of "unconditional positive regard" in community spaces, parenting lessons from raising boys, and the strength found in non-traditional support systems. Denise caps off the episode with a powerful reading of a piece written during one of Kim’s writing containers, closing with a call to action to move beyond silence and embrace courage. Key Times:00:00:46 Welcoming our first guest: Creative collaborator Kim Agnew 00:02:11 The "Boss Ladies" origin story and rolling down windows in Santa Monica 00:05:15 How a book draft evolved into a multi-generational dialogue 00:11:08 Kim’s story: From 30 years in NY advertising & publishing to moving West 00:17:47 9/11 as a turning point and discovering freedom in California 00:24:04 Intuitive creative direction: Listening to the energy in the room 00:32:00 Parenting, letting go, and learning from your kids 00:42:04 Reinterpreting traditional 12-step language for everyone 00:46:42 "Unconditional positive regard" and creating safe community containers 00:54:45 Denise reads her "Witches" writing piece: Courage over silence 01:00:08 The closing gratitude practice and 5-4-3-2-1 deep breathingTopics Covered:Welcoming the show’s first guest, Kim Agnew Female friendship, networking, and organic community building Career shifts, NYC publishing history, and starting over in California Intuitive creative coaching and finding the edge in projects Parenting multi-generational dynamics and trusting your adult children Reframing and modernizing 12-step language for broader accessibility Cultivating "unconditional positive regard" and safe writing containers The Serenity Prayer, female empowerment, and taking courage over silence Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In Episode 69, Denise and Jackie open with a funny moment trying to navigate technical frustration and an elusive eyelash before diving into a real conversation about recognizing your personal capacity. After feeling running on empty from caretaking for her dad following his back surgery, Denise shares why she decided to give herself a "mouse-a-cookie" long weekend to visit her favorite bookstore, Godmothers, in Summerland to hear author Mark Nepo.The mother-daughter duo explores the unexpected viral moment when a memorial photo of Denise's late brother blew up on Instagram, leading to a discussion on managing online energy and social media literacy. They dive into takeaways from Rick Rubin's book The Creative Act: A Way of Being, discussing how shifting our intentions can transform our creative output, how to capture inspirations without pressure, and the importance of creating space for daily practice.They also break down how to build habits without shame, the importance of visual tools to protect your bandwidth, and the grounding power of the Serenity Prayer (and its ACA variation) when navigating world events and climate anxiety. They close with their signature gratitude practice, a golf clap for drinking water, and a reminder to honor your rest!Key Times:00:00:55 Technical frustration and finding step principles in tech issues 00:02:45 Taking a "mouse-a-cookie" long weekend reset to visit Godmothers bookstore 00:06:14 When a tribute to Denise's brother unexpectedly goes viral on Instagram 00:10:40 Managing your output and using a visual calendar to protect fuel tanks 00:16:20 Rick Rubin’s The Creative Act and shifting intention in creative work 00:25:35 Removing shame from habit-building and allowing tasks to be partially done 00:30:30 The Serenity Prayer, environmental action, and knowing what you can change 00:38:48 The closing gratitude practice and deep breathing Topics Covered:Technical frustrations and recognizing your body's burnout limits Taking intentional reset time and setting workplace boundaries Unexpected social media virality and managing online energy Rick Rubin's The Creative Act: A Way of Being and capturing creative magic Shame-free habit building and flexible daily routines The Serenity Prayer and the ACA variation ("courage to change the one I can") Balancing civic responsibility with personal capacity Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In this episode, Denise and Jackie catch up on a week of heavy emotions, tech snafus, and running on vapors. The mother-daughter duo opens up about somatic grief and how the body holds onto trauma, reflecting on the anniversary of a family loss and the lingering sadness that surfaces even when we don't consciously expect it. They share honest experiences with "sandwich generation" stress, from navigating aging parents' hospital visits to managing daily household overwhelm.The conversation shifts into reimagining the world we want to live in, exploring everything from Scandinavian park cabins and accessible "third spaces" to day raves, women's sports energy, and Housing First policies. They discuss the importance of gentleness when mental health makes simple tasks like laundry or brushing your teeth feel monumental, and how early recovery routines helped shape healthier boundaries around daily life.Ultimately, they encourage listeners to move beyond passive observation and show up for the causes they care about, closing with their signature gratitude practice and a grounding reminder to honor what your body and soul need this week.Key Times:00:02:15 Somatic grief: How the body remembers trauma and loss00:06:02 The "sandwich generation" week: Hospital visits, broken AC, and running on vapors 00:08:12 Community, Ginger's ice cream runs, and the healing power of water 00:15:04 World-building: Scandinavian park cabins and humanizing public spaces 00:22:44 Day raves, third spaces, and the shift in women's sports energy 00:27:40 Housing First policies, systemic trauma, and daily bandwidth 00:30:08 Early recovery routines: How sponsors, schedules, and laundry shape habits 00:34:53 Self-compassion for imperfect days: "At least I folded three shirts" 00:38:28 Action over "thoughts and prayers": Showing up for community change Topics Covered:Re-recording tech mishaps and navigating user error Somatic memory, anniversary grief, and The Body Keeps the Score Navigating "sandwich generation" burnout and practicing self-kindness Reimagining public spaces, third spaces, and community connections Women's sports vs. traditional sports energy (Angel City FC & Daisy Chain Festival) Housing First policies, trauma, and mental health bandwidth for daily chores Early recovery routines, sponsor accountability, and decluttering habits Examining privilege, systemic support, and taking direct civic action Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In this episode, Jackie and Denise embrace the core principle of "living life on life's terms" after a week of technical glitches, broken air conditioning during a record Los Angeles heatwave, and family hospital visits. Denise shares her experience dealing with exorbitant home repair quotes and finding an unexpected, serene retreat at a boutique Hollywood hotel.The conversation expands into broader societal topics as Jackie and Denise unpack the definition of privilege, the "assets and benefits cliff" affecting lower- and middle-class families, and the concept of Universal Basic Needs. They compare US taxation and social safety nets with Scandinavian systems, discussing the steep costs of housing, aging in place, and elder care. The episode wraps up on an uplifting note as Denise recounts a serendipitous moment at a Santa Monica sound bath, where she randomly pulled her own written intuition message from a box on her way out.Key Times:00:02:08 "Living life on life's terms" during an extreme Los Angeles heatwave00:04:28 Finding unexpected silver linings and practicing acceptance over fear00:09:32 Defining privilege, wealth inequality, and Universal Basic Needs00:13:05 Resource accessibility, search fatigue, and systemic barriers to support00:17:10 The "benefits cliff" and the financial squeeze on middle-class families00:25:50 Comparing US social infrastructure with Scandinavian systems and Japan00:27:29 The realities of housing affordability, aging in place, and elder care costs00:30:17 Beverly Hills luxury real estate, extreme wealth, and strategic philanthropy00:39:09 A Santa Monica sound bath experience at MUD\WTR and pulling her own intuition messageTopics Covered:Acceptance and emotional regulation during home and life disruptionsPrivilege, wealth disparities, and the concept of Universal Basic NeedsThe "assets and benefits cliff" in social welfare programsAffordable housing, urban planning, and support for aging in placeComparative societal perspectives on taxes and community welfare (Scandinavia, Japan)Lived experience and 40 years of 12-step practice as valid expertiseIntuition, mindfulness, and serendipitous spiritual momentsFollow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In this episode, Jackie and Denise dive into Step 12, discussing what it means to awaken to our higher selves and carry the message to others. Denise reflects on her early days in recovery, organizing sober outings, and the profound impact of doing intensive step work around her sponsor Claire’s diverse dining room table. She also shares a serendipitous, "woo-woo" moment from a recent sound bath in Santa Monica where she accidentally pulled her own note.Jackie connects the principles of Step 12 to social work ethics, exploring the importance of self-determination, not gatekeeping resources, and overcoming a scarcity mindset. Together, they discuss the Los Angeles fires as an example of how the rush to help can sometimes be overwhelming, highlighting the need for accessible, intentional service and curated directories. The episode wraps up with a conversation on the difference between self-care and self-soothing, a heartwarming story about a neighborhood pool date for grandma's birthday, and an exciting tease about welcoming guests to the show in the future.Key Times:00:01:01 Diving into Step 12 and applying our experience, strength, and hope with others00:03:58 Denise's experience doing intensive, eight-month group step work with her sponsor, Claire00:08:35 A serendipitous sound bath experience at Mud Wtr in Santa Monica00:11:46 How Step 12 aligns with social work ethics, anti-gatekeeping, and overcoming scarcity mindsets00:15:53 The LA fires and the challenge of organizing overwhelming resources to prevent decision fatigue00:20:45 Why the rush to help must be matched with intentionality to be truly of service00:24:53 Breaking down the critical difference between self-care and self-soothing (and when ice cream is the answer)00:28:13 Teasing a new format: bringing friends and guests onto the podcastTopics Covered:Step 12: Awakening to our higher selves and sharing experience, strength, and hopeThe power of group step work and having diverse perspectives in recoverySocial work ethics, self-determination, and openly sharing community resourcesThe importance of curating resources to prevent fatigue for those experiencing traumaDistinguishing between self-care and self-soothing behaviors to end the dayFollow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In Episode 65, Jackie and Denise dive into Step 11, which focuses on welcoming mindfulness, grace, and gratitude into our thoughts and behaviors. Denise recounts her recent experience hosting the 25th annual retreat for sober women, where attendees worked through Steps 4, 6, and 7 to confront and process their fears in small groups. From walking the labyrinth and offering up her "awareness" rock, to throwing a silent disco featuring a choir version of Eminem's "Lose Yourself," Denise highlights the immense power of shared connection and intentional gathering.Jackie shares takeaways from her week-long summer intensive class on Management and Leadership of Organizations. She discusses the importance of unwritten workplace norms (like the culture surrounding lunch breaks), the value of building unstructured downtime into group events, and what it really means to create a safe and meaningful environment. The episode concludes with a heartwarming discussion about a fast-paced class exercise involving writing affirmations to peers, followed by a closing grounding breathwork practice.Key Times: 00:01:33 Step 11: Welcoming mindfulness, grace, and gratitude 00:02:18 Denise's experience hosting the 25th annual sober women's retreat 00:04:47 Focusing the retreat workshop on fear and working through Steps 4, 6, and 7 00:08:20 The silent disco and grandpa's choir version of Eminem's "Lose Yourself" 00:10:31 Walking the labyrinth at the retreat and leaving the "awareness" rock 00:14:24 Jackie's unexpected insights from a Management and Leadership summer intensive 00:17:11 The impact of subtle workplace norms, including lunch culture 00:22:20 The value of non-productive time and pacing oneself during a busy week of events 00:29:57 The 30-second affirmation paper rotation exercise 00:34:11 A closing grounding exercise focused on deep breathing and gratitudeTopics Covered:Step 11: Integrating mindfulness, grace, and gratitude into daily behaviorsOrganizing a sober women's retreat and confronting fear through Steps 4, 6, and 7The power of vulnerability, shared communion, and giving people space to processLessons on management, leadership styles, and creating safe workplace environmentsThe importance of unstructured downtime and taking breaks to rechargeExpressing gratitude and the emotional impact of writing affirmations for peersTopics mentioned: The Wild and Sacred Feminine DeckSelected Of God Choir - Lose Yourself (Official Music Video)Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

In Episode 64, Denise and Jackie return from their summer break to officially welcome listeners to the podcast's new name: 12 Steps for Everyone! The mother-daughter duo catches up on their summer, diving straight into Denise’s recent dental surgery and her vulnerable experience with nitrous oxide. Denise reflects on how the feeling of numbness brought back memories of her days before sobriety, reminding her that she prefers feeling the pain over losing control.They transition into a powerful discussion on Step 10, exploring the concepts of daily reflection, self-forgiveness, and making amends to our past selves. From evaluating the wisdom of the book "Die With Nothing" to finding the courage of a bison facing a storm, they highlight the importance of maximizing life's experiences while we have the capacity to enjoy them.The episode rounds out with a thoughtful conversation on the power of community, inspired by the Women's World Cup and Denise's upcoming hosting events, reminding us that true joy is found in gathering together. They close with their classic grounding exercise and a reminder to drink some water!Key Times: 00:03:53 Denise's dental surgery and the nitrous oxide experience 00:09:00 The bison approach: going through the storm instead of running away 00:11:47 Step 10: Maintaining a daily practice of reflection, amends, and forgiveness 00:18:01 "Die With Nothing" and maximizing life experiences at the right age 00:25:51 Doing 10 minutes of workbook daily to move things forward 00:34:49 The importance of in-person community and gathering 00:37:21 Reflections on the Women's World Cup and shared humanity Topics Covered:Transitioning the podcast name to 12 Steps for EveryoneDental surgery, nitrous oxide, and choosing to feel discomfort over numbing outStep 10: Daily reflection, amends, and forgivenessMaking amends to our past selves by showing up in the presentLessons from "Die With Nothing" on living life fullyThe power of gathering and in-person community in an AI worldClosing gratitude and breathing practiceBook mentioned: https://miabirdsong.com/how-we-show-uphttps://www.amazon.com/Die-Zero-Getting-Your-Money/dp/0358567092Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

Jackie and Denise tackle Step 9, exploring the nuances of making, and receiving amends. They discuss the importance of setting boundaries when an apology isn't genuine, the relief that comes from cleaning up your side of the street, and how "living amends" can rewrite your legacy over time.Denise shares a powerful story about a Christmas Eve relapse and the amends that followed, while Jackie reflects on navigating uncomfortable friendship dynamics and learning to read the room. Plus, the hosts pitch an exciting new community "third space" and share their weekly self-care practices.Ultimately, making a full repair in a relationship requires both extending and receiving grace. It’s crucial to recognize when an apology is actually just someone "taking your inventory," reminding listeners of the value of the restraint of pen and tongue.Key Times: 00:02:15 Friendship dynamics: Jackie discusses the challenges of receiving amends and repairing relationships 00:08:00 Manipulative apologies: Denise shares a story about rejecting an insincere apology from her dad's ex-wife 00:12:38 The Big Book: Reading "The Promises" to ground the step work 00:16:20 A living amends: Denise's Christmas Eve relapse story and the lasting power of changed behavior 00:19:47 The restraint of pen and tongue: Avoiding reactions so you don't have to apologize later 00:21:41 Taking inventory: Defining what it actually means to "take someone's inventory" under the guise of an amends 00:34:48 Community building: Pitching a weekly Zoom "third space" for the podcast community to connect00:40:09 Looking ahead: Teaser for Step 10, mindfulness, and the exhausting pressure of wellness culture 00:43:00 Weekly check-ins: Self-care practices and gratitude wrap-upTopics Covered:Navigating the complexities and nuances of making and receiving amends in Step 9Setting boundaries against manipulative apologies and recognizing when someone is "taking your inventory"The power of "living amends" and proving apologies through consistent, changed behaviorPracticing the restraint of pen and tongue to avoid creating new harmsPitching a new weekly virtual container and "third space" for the podcast communityWeekly self-care check-ins and reading "The Promises" from the Big BookJoin our upcoming meetings:https://forms.gle/4VxnNUnev1RoRJMCA (Zoom meeting on Saturday at 10am PST, the meeting is password-protected so please fill out the form to receive the link and password!)Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone

Denise and Jackie dive into Step 8 of their recovery and mental health journey, exploring what it means to list the harms we’ve caused and how to navigate making amends. Denise shares personal reflections on her 40 years of sobriety, questioning when "living amends" are enough and noticing her tendency to overcompensate by overworking herself, even at a relative's recent funeral. Jackie contrasts this by sharing her experiences with presence and reliability during her social work practicum, which leads into a larger family discussion about community trust, vulnerability, and the systemic barriers that prevent people from asking for help.From the shifting cultural landscape of the "double sandwich generation" to the corporate challenges faced by women in leadership, the duo highlights how deeply connected our responsibilities are to our personal well-being. Ultimately, they turn the mirror inward, challenging listeners to place themselves on their own Step 8 list and recognize the self-harm caused by negative self-talk, ignoring physical cues, and rejecting necessary support.Key Times:00:01:25 Processing grief: Showing up for family after their aunt’s passing00:02:14 Introduction to Step 8 and the concept of "living amends" over 40 years of sobriety00:03:37 Overcompensating with service: The "Porthos booth" realization at the funeral00:05:30 Owning shortcomings: Trying to right a forgotten phone call from a past meeting00:09:25 Lessons in presence: Tornado relief, community reliability, and showing up in a practicum00:11:49 Reimagining virtual vs. in-person container spaces for their busy community00:14:26 Navigating the fatigue of the modern world and the "double sandwich generation" crunch00:15:30 Body nourishment: Unlearning competitive performance expectations to embrace slower movement00:18:20 Armadillo armor: The discomfort of receiving help and asking for what you actually need00:21:49 Self-amends: Reconnecting with physical hunger cues and emotional releases (the beauty of a good cry)00:25:39 Cultural recommendations: The Book of Delights, Theo of Golden, and being kind to service workers00:29:48 The isolation baseline: From New York bodegas to the scary reality of turning to AI for connection00:32:00 Leadership dynamics: Full-time expectations, systemic barriers, and women exiting the workforce00:34:57 Real estate reality: Systemic racism, redlining, covenants, and the generational loss of wealth00:38:54 Celebrating corporate diversity: Token infrastructure investments vs. genuine inclusive leadership00:40:02 Turning Step 8 inward: Facing fear, shame, resentments, and putting yourself on the harm listTopics Covered:Redefining the podcast boundaries from "Emergency Protocol" to "12 Steps for Everyone"Evaluating when living amends transition from healing to overcompensationThe infrastructure of consistency: Building a reliable community container, whether governmental or localThe H.A.L.T. H. (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired, Horny) wellness check-in frameworkDouble sandwich generation dynamics: Simultaneously managing aging parents, grandchildren, and careersEmbracing emotional fluidity: Allowing unexpected tears to serve as a necessary chemical releaseSystemic oppression and redlining in corporate real estate history, and the long path to modern reparationsShifting the Step 8 framework to include self-amends, body attunement, and radical self-forgivenessJoin our upcoming meetings:https://forms.gle/4VxnNUnev1RoRJMCA (Zoom meeting on Saturday at 10am PST, the meeting is password-protected so please fill out the form to receive the link and password!)Follow Us:Follow Jackie: jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on Tik Tok: @12stepsforeveryone