[Solocast] We Don't Grow Potential. We Release It.

If you lead people, there's probably something you're holding on to right now because handing it over feels risky. Maybe you've handed it over with so many conditions attached that it never really left your hands. And the conversations with the people around you have stayed small, stuck at the level of tasks and updates.In this episode I've handed over my own podcast. Katee Gray, my fractional practice manager for close to three years, takes the host's chair and asks me questions I'd never been asked. What if trust was where you started rather than something people had to earn? What would change if your time away was for generating new thinking rather than escaping? And how do you lead in a way that keeps going once you've moved on?Katee Gray has worked alongside me as a fractional practice manager and thinking partner on the practice for close to three years, and she ran the process that led to hiring my current practice manager, Jemma. She's been on the receiving end of how I hand things over, which is why she knew where to push. In Part One we explore:How starting from trust, rather than asking people to earn it, changes what a working relationship can becomeWhy task-level conversations leave me flat, and what I've noticed about meeting people where they areWhere my habit of assuming the best in people comes from, through my mum and her parentsHow the confidence and wonderance continuum helps you stay clear of arrogance on one side and imposter thinking on the otherWhy I call time away "generative time", and the planning that makes seven weeks away possibleHow burning out at 30 shaped the boundaries I hold todayWhy a leader's boundaries give everyone else permission to have their ownHow Leading Lasting Impact grew from a question I was asking myself, then heard from my clientsConnect with Katee on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kateegrayBook a time to pick Katee's brain on people, profit and process for your business: kateegray.com/#chatFind out more about Leading Lasting Impact and take the free leadership diagnostic: digbyscott.com/leading-lasting-impact

How often do you stop yourself from doing the thing you know is right, because it feels like it isn’t your call? And how many people around you are doing the same?In a recent conversation on Dig Deeper, City of Vincent CEO David MacLennan shared a formula from Tim Gallwey’s The Inner Game of Tennis: performance equals potential minus interference. In this solocast I explore what changes when you see your job as clearing what’s in the way rather than adding more.Key takeaways:Why removing interference matters more than adding capabilityThe three kinds of interference: practical, structural and psychologicalWhy frustrating rules usually start out as sensible onesWhat it means to be a “pain manager”How one staff survey across 25 areas led to decisions that freed things upHow hosting looks different from heroing when it comes to potentialTwo questions to take into your weekTimestamps: (00:00) Introduction (00:10) Permission and “that’s not my lane” (01:15) The Inner Game of Tennis formula (02:02) Potential minus interference (02:32) Three kinds of interference (03:02) Why interference piles up, and the pain manager (03:35) The City of Vincent staff survey (04:01) We don’t grow potential, we release it (05:05) Two questions for your weekListen to the full conversation with David MacLennan: [Interview] Leading a City for Lasting Impact | David MacLennan Others mentioned: The Inner Game of Tennis, W. Timothy GallweyCheck out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/ Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/thoughts#subscribe Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

Have you ever found out that something you were doing to help was actually getting in the way? You had good intent, and knew exactly what you were trying to do for your team. Then someone told you, in much kinder words, to get out of the way.This episode is about the gap between what you intend and what people actually experience (and, what to do when you find one of those gaps in your own leadership). Celena Harry and I get into how to go looking for that feedback without making a production of it, why the best work a leader does is often the work nobody sees, and what it takes to stop telling yourself the worst version of the story.You’ll learn:Why your intent matters far less than your impact, and how to tell the differenceThree questions that close the gap between the impact you want and the impact you are actually havingHow to ask for feedback in a way that gets you something useful backWhy the best work a leader does is often invisible, and how to get comfortable with thatHow perfectionism shows up as an inner critic, and what it costs the people around youHow to work out whose opinion genuinely matters to youCelena Harry is Chief People Officer at Ando Insurance and previously held the same role at Mitre 10. She has spent more than two decades helping organisations grow through great leadership, strong culture, and a healthy dose of pragmatism.Away from work, Celena is a mum of two and stepmum of three talented young adults, and cat mum to a feline who has very clear views on household leadership. Proud to hail from West Auckland, she’s built her career on keeping things practical, people-focused, and refreshingly free of corporate jargon.Whether she’s talking leadership, culture transformation, or what it takes to create a fantastic workplace, Celena believes the best conversations are honest, human and grounded in real life. And if those conversations happen to be accompanied by a 90s rock soundtrack, even better.Timestamps:(00:00) - Introduction(02:22) - The feedback that changed how she leads(03:48) - What getting in the way actually looked like(05:17) - Handing over the stage, and what happened next(07:00) - Wind beneath my wings: the work nobody needs to know you did(09:34) - Why people are led by their leader, not by HR(11:59) - Getting braver, and what changed when she went contracting(15:38) - What Playcentre taught her about the human condition(17:57) - Separation, redundancy and Dare to Lead in 2020(20:37) - How to catch the story you are telling yourself(22:57) - Dual awareness, and finding language for your own state(28:25) - Perfectionism, and who is actually in your arena(33:53) - Leading for impact when your impact is indirect(36:54) - The three questions that close the intent and impact gap(38:48) - A practical way to find out how you are landing(42:13) - Gloriously, beautifully messy humans(45:21) - ReflectionsYou can find Celena at:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/celenaharry/Check out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

When one of your people brings you work that's accurate, well researched and clearly argued, and it still goes nowhere, where do you look for the reason? At the decision maker who ignored the evidence? Or at what your person couldn't see from where they were sitting?In this solocast, I start with a CFO placement I lost early in my career as a recruitment consultant. I had the strongest candidate on the shortlist and still missed, because I'd answered the brief without asking what the client was really trying to solve. From there I look at research from Gerald Ferris and colleagues showing that intelligence and the ability to read a room are separate capabilities. That's why context is something you need to teach your people rather than hope they pick up. You'll come away with three things to keep in front of your people, and a question that might change what you hand over next.You'll learn:Why a strong shortlist still lost the CFO role, and the three questions that would have changed the outcomeWhy clever and savvy are separate capabilities, and what the research says about which one predicts performanceHow most people actually learn context, and why neither route counts as a development planThe three things your people need to weigh up to get an idea across the line: content, circumstances and consequencesHow to walk alongside your people while the work is still taking shape, rather than after it's failedWhy handing over context does more for your people than handing over correctionsThe question to ask yourself about what you know and haven't said out loudTimestamps (00:00) Introduction (00:10) The CFO placement I got wrong (01:52) Answering the brief and missing the real question (02:09) When great work isn't enough (02:52) Clever people and astute people (03:38) Context is taught (04:25) Content, circumstances and consequences (05:22) Giving context rather than the answer (05:46) A question for youCheck out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/ Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/thoughts#subscribe Follow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

What if the most powerful thing you can do to lift your team's performance isn't to add more, but to remove what's getting in the way? And what does a sheep meat trade ban in Mexico have to do with how one CEO is building a high-performing city?In this conversation, David MacLennan and I get into what 15 years of diplomacy teaches you about leading without authority, a trade crisis that became his most formative leadership moment, and a framework he's built his entire organisation around. We land somewhere worth sitting with: the job of a leader might be less about what you add and more about what you remove.David MacLennan is the CEO of the City of Vincent in Perth, Western Australia, named the second most livable city in Australia last year. He is also Chair of the Australian Urban Design Research Centre at the University of Western Australia. He spent 15 years as a diplomat with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, fluent in Spanish, with postings to Papua New Guinea, Mexico City, Lima, and London. During his time in Lima, he was awarded the Order of Merit for Distinguished Services, Commander Grade, by the President of Peru for his contribution to Peru's hosting of the 2008 APEC Leaders Summit. Before joining local government, he was Assistant Director General at the WA Department of Planning, Lands and Heritage. He holds a Bachelor of Arts from UWA and a Master of Management from ANU and has been at the City of Vincent since 2018.We get into:How a trade ban on Australian sheepmeat became the leadership lesson David still draws on todayWhy the CEO's job is best understood as pain management: finding and removing what stops people doing their best workHow the City of Vincent gave a whole community permission to lead their own streets, and what that says about leadership at scaleWhat it looks like to get an entire organisation into flow state, and how David accesses his ownWhy the problems in your work life never go away, and what that actually means for how you growTimestamps:(00:00) - Introduction(01:40) - From small-town WA to diplomat: David's unlikely career arc(06:52) - The Mexico sheep meat crisis, and what no one saw coming(11:55) - The lesson that stayed: step up when no one else will(17:24) - Clever, creative, courageous: running a city with limited resources(21:11) - Town Teams and giving a whole community permission to lead(24:52) - Performance equals potential minus interference(29:41) - Getting an entire organisation into flow state(30:56) - How David accesses his own flow state(32:30) - From individual performance to a culture of high performance(37:44) - Reflections and where to find DavidYou can find David MacLennan at:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-maclennan-35724334/Check out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

Someone comes to you with a problem. What's your first move? For a lot of us, there's a pull to just solve it, hand over the answer, and feel useful. It's a natural instinct. It's also, more often than not, the least helpful thing you can do.This episode walks through a model I've used in workshops for years: five levels of intention, from combatant at the bottom right up to co-creator at the top. Each level sounds different, asks different questions, and leaves the other person with something different. Underneath it all is one idea: intent determines impact. Your technique matters less than what you're actually trying to do underneath the words.In this solocast, you'll get:The five levels of intention, from combatant through to co-creator, and what each one sounds like in a real conversationWhy solving someone's problem for them can quietly teach them nothing but the shape of your answersA second lens, attention in, attention out, and a tension between, that's arguably more useful than the levels themselvesWhy your job gets easier, not harder, once your attention shifts off yourselfA simple fishing metaphor for the difference between catching someone's fish and teaching them to fishOne thing to try this week: picking a single conversation and moving up just one levelTimestamps(00:09) The pull to give someone the answer, and why it's not actually help(02:08) The ladder: level zero, the combatant, and level one, the troubleshooter(04:08) Level two, the advisor, and level three, the enabler(06:27) Level four, co-creator, and the second lens: attention in, out, and between(08:32) Your centre of gravity, and one thing to try this weekI've put the whole model, all five levels, the questions that go with each one, and the fishing language, into a free one-page PDF. Download it here: https://digbyscott.com/five-levels-of-intentionThere's also a longer written version of this model on my website: https://digbyscott.com/thoughts/intent-determines-impactCheck out my services and offerings: https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter: https://www.digbyscott.com/thoughts#subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

How do you know if the way you're showing up as a leader is actually landing the way you mean it to?Francois Barton has spent years learning to host, not control. As chief executive of New Zealand's largest CEO group, his job isn't to have the answers, it's to set the table and get out of the way. In this conversation he talks candidly about the moment a partner pointed out the gap between his intention and his impact, why tenure can sharpen a leader or dull them, and the shift he's now navigating: from curating conversations to challenging what's actually being said in them.Francois Barton is chief executive of the Business Leaders' Health and Safety Forum, New Zealand's largest CEO membership group. More than 440 chief executives, representing over a quarter of the country's workforce, are part of it. Francois helped found the Forum back in 2009 and has led it since 2015. Twenty years working across business and government in policy, strategy and regulation shaped a belief that sits at the centre of his work: progress only comes when leaders confront difficult realities together.You'll hear:Why Francois thinks of himself as a curator, not an expertHow a spare afternoon with one visiting CEO turned into a Forum-wide way of connecting leadersWhat "the sweat's on the right back" taught him about caring less what people thinkWhy tenure can be a strength or a trap, and what decides whichHow his partner's honest feedback exposed his own intention-impact gapWhy he doesn't trust "skinny cooks" in leadershipWhat's pulling him from hosting conversations toward challenging what's said in themTimestamps:(00:00) - Introduction(02:05) - Catching up, turning 53(04:18) - What Francois is still holding onto(06:44) - Curating vs controlling (08:09) - The intention-impact gap (10:35) - Inside the Business Leaders' Health and Safety Forum(15:12) - Does tenure sharpen or dull a leader?(21:41) - What's missing in leaders who've gone stale(24:15) - Why Francois doesn't trust "skinny cooks"(27:37) - How the CEO connection lunches started(30:30) - What Francois deliberately doesn't do as host(33:58) - Where the real value actually lives(38:15) - Risk, relationships, and resourcing(41:21) - From curator to challenger(44:46) - What surfaced in this conversation(47:57) - Where to find Francois(48:34) - Digby's reflection and sign-offYou can find Francois at:Website: https://www.forum.org.nz/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/francois-barton-6a040b11/Check out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

You walk into a room where nobody knows you. No shared history, nobody to vouch for you, and whatever you've built is sitting in a file the person across from you will never open. So what actually earns you credibility in the next ten minutes?I've been living this question. Over the past few months I've been building a practice in Perth, and almost twenty years of trust earned in New Zealand counts for nothing in a room where I've just met someone. So I've been carrying a mantra with me: credibility is in the eye of the beholder. It's granted, not claimed. Which shifts the question from what you've built to what you're doing to earn it right now.In this solocast I share what 25 senior leaders came up with when I asked them what makes someone credible, why our brains judge warmth before they judge anything else, and the three things that have to show up together.You'll get:Why the person across from you is the one deciding whether you're credibleWhat 25 senior leaders put on the flip chart, and the one word that only turned up onceWhy a primal part of your brain asks "friend or foe" before it asks anything elseThe Amy Cuddy and Susan Fiske research on warmth and competenceHow competence, care and character add up to credibilityWhat you look like to others when one of the three is missingWhy leading with care first is what opens the door to a second conversationTimestamps:(00:00) - Introduction(00:40) - The mantra: credibility is in the eye of the beholder(01:21) - Credibility is granted, not claimed(01:44) - What 25 senior leaders said makes someone credible(02:30) - Care: friend or foe, and why warmth comes first(03:09) - Character: showing who you are(03:30) - Competence, care and character together(03:56) - Leading with care first in a new city(04:19) - Three questions to leave you withReferenced in this episode:Susan Fiske, Amy Cuddy and Peter Glick, "Universal Dimensions of Social Cognition: Warmth and Competence", Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 2007Amy Cuddy, Presence: Bringing Your Boldest Self to Your Biggest ChallengesCheck out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

How do you know when your team needs a rebel and when they need a prefect? And what happens when you've only ever learned to lead one of them?In this episode, I sit down with Cat Hall to explore an idea we built together years ago: rebels and prefects, and why both are essential when you're driving change. Cat brings six research-backed traits from her master's in Change and Organisational Resilience that shape how well people adapt, and partway through the conversation, she turns that research back on herself. We land on something worth sitting with: adaptability starts with psychological safety, and with giving people permission to play.Cat Hall is a workforce strategist and change leader who helps people thrive in a rapidly changing world of work. With a background in organisational development and change, she now works at the intersection of future-of-work strategy and practical change, designing future skills frameworks and adaptive ways of working, from her early years pushing against the status quo inside a large government department, through to building a practical adaptability playbook now used by leaders and HR professionals. Her recent master's research went beyond the adaptability buzzword, focusing on what actually enables people to adapt to change and what organisations and leaders can practically do to foster it.We get into:Why rebels and prefects both matter, and how to know which one your team needs right nowHow psychological safety is the real starting point for building adaptabilityWhy self-efficacy and resilience show up differently when change is happening to you rather than being led by youHow small pockets of autonomy give people permission to experiment with change Why a simple mantra helped Cat get through one of the hardest years of her lifeTimestamps:(00:00) - Introduction(01:44) - Rebels vs prefects: what do the words actually mean?(05:38) - From "good girl" to rebel: Cat's story(09:22) - Finding organisational development and a career-defining moment(14:09) - Full rebel mode at Inland Revenue, and learning to bring people with you(20:11) - Back to study: a master's in Change and Organisational Resilience(25:13) - The six traits of adaptability, and turning the research on herself(29:51) - Doing a master's through the hardest year of her life(34:37) - Bringing the playbook to life(37:06) - Where adaptability starts: psychological safety and permission to play(39:48) - Reflections, and where to find Cat HallYou can find Cat Hall at:LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-hall-834220199/ Check out my services and offerings https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter https://www.digbyscott.com/subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/

When everything around your team feels uncertain, what are you actually meant to give them? Not answers you don't have. Not confidence you can't hold onto forever.A few weeks back, working with a group of senior leaders from a New Zealand local government agency, I asked what they found hardest about leading through uncertainty. Almost every answer came back the same: it's hard to give people certainty. This episode is about why I don't think that's actually the job.I reckon most leaders default into one of two modes when things get shaky: heroing, where you perform having the answers and end up carrying it all yourself, or hoping, where there's no answer and nothing gets handed over either. There's a third mode: hosting, where you create real room for people to find their own answers, whether or not you know the way yourself. Certainty is a promise you often can't keep. Agency is a gift you can always give, and there's real research behind why that matters, including a decades-old study where small everyday choices measurably changed how long people lived.In this solocast, you'll get:Why performing certainty under pressure quietly turns you into the bottleneckThe difference between heroing, hoping, and hosting, and why hosting is the one that lasts beyond youWhat a nursing home study from the seventies reveals about the measurable power of small choicesWhy giving away agency is still hard, even after fifteen-plus years of coaching leaders through itThe cultural pressures, boards, media, performance systems, that quietly punish anyone who says "I don't know"Three practical tools you can use this week: a certainty and agency check-in, an agency audit, and a language shiftA simple sailing metaphor for what it looks like to lead without controlling everythingTimestamps(00:00) The question that started this: what leaders find hardest about uncertainty(02:29) Heroing, hoping, and hosting: a sailing metaphor for leading without controlling everything(04:35) Why giving away agency is still hard, even after fifteen-plus years of coaching(06:47) Three practical tools: a certainty and agency check-in, an agency audit, and a language shift(09:11) A close: the one decision you could hand over this weekI've put together a free model and a downloadable toolkit with the practical questions and language shifts from this episode. Grab it here: https://digbyscott.squarespace.com/agencytoolkit Check out my services and offerings: https://www.digbyscott.com/Subscribe to my newsletter: https://www.digbyscott.com/thoughts#subscribeFollow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/digbyscott/