#30: How Healing Happens Between Us – An IFS Healing Circles Audio Diary

Send us Fan MailWhat happens when a psychedelic experience meant to be healing becomes frightening, destabilizing, or even traumatic? In this episode, I speak with naturopathic physician Dr. Erica Zelfand about the promise and risks of psychedelic medicine, informed consent, preparation and integration, and what can happen when psychedelic experiences go wrong.But our conversation ranges much further—from Erica’s family experience with chronic illness and her path into naturopathic medicine to her own experience being drawn into a cult and what she learned about autonomy, trust, and healing. We explore the importance of community, the sometimes-blurry boundaries between healing and harm, and how Erica’s personal and professional experiences have shaped her understanding of medicine, psychedelics, and meaning.In this episode:• What naturopathic doctors actually do—and how Erica found her way into the field• Psychedelic access, safety, and the “right to heal”• PARQ and the importance of meaningful informed consent• Why preparation matters in ketamine and other psychedelic experiences• Trust, safety, and the role of community in retreats and integration• Erica’s family experience with chronic illness and how it shaped her understanding of healing• Her experience being drawn into a cult—and helping cult survivors rebuild a sense of self• Coming “out of the psychedelic closet” as a medical professional• Practical therapeutic tools for psychedelic preparation and integration• How psychedelic experiences themselves can become traumatic• Meaning, parenthood, autonomy, and allowing other people to find their own pathsTimestamps0:00 — Welcome & the Search for Meaning3:55 — What Naturopathic Doctors Actually Do7:01 — When an Itch Signals a Life16:20 — The Right to Heal & Safe Psychedelic Access20:57 — Informed Consent with PARQ22:48 — Ketamine Done with Preparation24:26 — Retreats Built on Trust30:09 — Integration & Why Community Matters36:08 — Family Roots & Chronic Illness40:53 — Getting Pulled Into a Cult49:22 — Helping Cult Survivors Rebuild Self51:16 — From Literature to Naturopathic Medicine55:47 — Coming Out of the Psychedelic Closet59:29 — Therapy Tools for Preparation & Integration1:03:49 — Traumatic Psychedelic Experiences Explained1:14:26 — Meaning, Parenthood & Autonomy1:19:54 — Resources, Substack & FarewellSubscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack for new episodes and reflections on healing, trauma, connection, and meaning:https://developingmeaning.substack.com/subscribeDeveloping Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz.Developing Meaning is produced by Sophie Chen, Anya Kleinlein, and Dirk Winter, and is a production of Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan MailThis episode is a companion to my conversation with Chris Burris, creator of Healing Circles. After learning about his approach to bringing Internal Family Systems into group therapy, I traveled to Asheville, North Carolina, to experience it for myself.Over five days, I recorded an audio diary as the experience unfolded — reflecting on what was happening inside me, what was happening within the group, and what I was learning about the power of intentional community. You’ll hear about parts work, group “sculpting,” vulnerability, connection, and the surprising ways a group of strangers can begin to become a healing community.These are not reflections reconstructed months later. They are my thoughts recorded in the midst of the experience — an attempt to take you with me as I explore a question I’ve become increasingly curious about:How much of healing happens not just within us, but between us?Timestamps0:00 — Why This Audio Diary Exists2:07 — The Drive To Asheville3:43 — First Day Norms And Intentions5:41 — Day Four Fatigue And Doubt12:22 — Woo Woo Meets Neuroscience16:35 — My Sculpt And What ChangedLearn more about Chris BurrisWebsite: www.burriscounseling.com — trainings, workshops, and resourcesBook: Creating Healing Circles: Using the Internal Family Systems Model in Facilitating GroupsSubscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter for updates and behind-the-scenes reflections.Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.Developing Meaning is produced by Sophie Chen, Anya Kleinlein and Dirk Winter and is a production of Consilient Mind LLC. Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. 

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I sit down with Chris Burris — senior lead IFS trainer, trauma therapist, and creator of Healing Circles — after spending five days at his home in Asheville, North Carolina participating in one of his experiential trainings. We explore how Chris brought Internal Family Systems into group therapy and how community can become not simply a source of support, but an active part of the healing process. We dig into intention setting, commitment, group “sculpting,” unburdening, and how an intentional community can help us revisit deeply held beliefs about ourselves and other people.This interview is followed by an audio diary taking you inside my own Healing Circles experience.In this episode:• Chris Burris’s path from family systems work to long-term trauma therapy• A near-death experience and early experiences that shaped his spiritual curiosity• Why IFS understands the mind as a system of parts, protectors, and exiles• Moving from “integration” toward becoming a happier inner family• What unburdening looks like — and how the body can let go• How a childhood wound around dyslexia can create a lifelong belief• What “intentional community” means — and why it matters for healing• How Healing Circles begin with intentions, commitment, and desired outcomes• The sacred-item commitment and the importance of staying with the group• “Sculpting” as a live, experiential map of our internal system• Reworking the belief that other people are dangerous and unpredictable• Meaning as fully experiencing life while connecting with other people and natureTimestamps00:00 — Welcome: Why Groups Can Heal05:36 — Introducing Chris Burris & Healing Circles07:35 — Chris’s Career in Trauma Therapy15:09 — His Mother’s Illness, Near-Death Experience & Spiritual Curiosity21:16 — How Different Perceptions Shaped His Path as a Healer24:49 — The Consultation With Richard Schwartz That Changed His Work27:56 — IFS: Parts, Protectors & Exiles36:03 — Dyslexia & Unburdening the “I’m Not Smart” Belief40:28 — Men’s Circles, Mentors & Intentional Community44:45 — How Healing Circles Begin: Intentions & Commitment51:25 — Sacred Objects & Committing to the Group55:04 — “Sculpting” the Internal System With Other People59:38 — Healing Relational Trauma: Reworking the Belief That People Are Dangerous1:03:00 — Meaning & Compassionate Presence1:09:04 — Chris’s Billboard Advice: Make Time for NatureLearn more about Chris BurrisWebsite: www.burriscounseling.com — trainings, workshops, and resourcesBook: Creating Healing Circles: Using the Internal Family Systems Model in Facilitating GroupsSubscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter for updates and behind-the-scenes reflections.Developing Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.Developing Meaning is produced by Sophie Chen, Anya Kleinlein and Dirk Winter and is a production of Consilient Mind LLC. Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. 

Send us Fan MailThis episode is a companion audio diary to my interview with Ted Riskin, recorded while participating in one of his five-day Internal Family Systems (IFS) ketamine-assisted group retreats in Asheville, North Carolina. Over the course of the retreat, I recorded stream-of-consciousness reflections into my iPhone each day as I moved through group process, ketamine journeys, hikes in the mountains, and conversations about healing, anger, meaning, and inner balance.This episode is more personal and less structured than my usual interviews. Part field journal, part psychological exploration, it captures what it feels like to enter one of these increasingly popular healing environments.Timestamps0:00 - Audio Diary Retreat Setup1:55 - Meeting The Group And The Method4:19 - Setting Intentions For Inner Balance5:16 - First Ketamine Journey And Comeback10:32 - Integration Plus Hikes And Workday13:14 - Anger Work And Nature Reset15:14 - Lower Dose Insights And Next StepsSubscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter: Developing Meaning SubstackDeveloping Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, I sit down with Ted Riskin — social worker, IFS expert, and pioneer of group ketamine retreats — after spending a week at his beautiful home in Asheville, North Carolina participating in one of his experiences. From his unusual path as a computer programmer living in an Ashram to becoming one of the leading voices in ketamine-assisted IFS group therapy, we explore how to work with protectors, why anger deserves more respect than our culture gives it, and how group healing unlocks something individual therapy often can't reach. Plus: why meaning isn't something you find — it's something you create.In this episodeWhat exiles and protectors are and how they shape our inner worldWhy healing means becoming whole — and how IFS gets you thereFrom computer programming to debugging the psycheHow breathwork and non-ordinary states bypass the thinking brainAnger as a healthy boundary-setting force — and why suppressing it breeds judgmentThe three ways to work with a protector: push, invite, or pick up the catWhy ketamine works like holotropic breathwork — and why Ted combined it with groupsHow group healing reaches wounds that one-on-one therapy often missesOutcomes data: what actually changes after a group ketamine IFS retreatMeaning as something you generate — not something you findTimestamps3:42 - Meeting Ted And His Setting5:35 - Self Energy And Finding Balance8:20 - Exiles Protectors And Healing Wholeness14:00 - From Programmer To Therapist19:35 - Breathwork And Non Ordinary States27:43 - Core Energetics And Working With Anger36:18 - Discovering IFS Through Hypnosis42:26 - Ketamine As A Path Past Protectors47:15 - Building The Group Ketamine Model52:31 - Outcomes Data And What Changes Last53:49 - Meaning Connection And Modern Life57:00 - Creating Meaning From A Blank Slate59:52 - Rapid Fire Questions And Art1:03:58 - A Depolarizing Message And Where To Find Ted1:07:06 - What Comes Next On The PodcastSubscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter: https://developingmeaning.substack.com/subscribeDeveloping Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan MailNote: This conversation with Dr. Patricia Gerbarg was recorded in August 2025.In this episode, we explore how breathing patterns reshape the emotional brain, restore a sense of safety, and allow meaning to return to daily life with Dr. Patricia Gerbarg, co-creator of the Breath-Body-Mind program.From her personal development as a healer to co-creating a global healing community active in trauma hotspots like Ukraine and Rwanda, we explore the science, stories, and practical tools that help people regulate their nervous systems and reconnect with meaning.In this episode• Meaning as state-dependent and grounded in safety • What Breath Body Mind is and why safety comes first • How vagus nerve signaling links breathing to emotion • Why talk therapy alone often cannot reach stored trauma • The sequence: focus → movement → muscle softening → coherent breathing • Evidence from 9/11 survivors, veterans, schools, and IBD patients • Programs in Ukraine supporting clinicians, children, and communities • Rwanda’s community model blending breath, ritual, and narrative • Restoring connection, agency, and love through breath practices • How to start with short, safe practices and build consistencyTimestamps0:14 – Opening Teaser: Breath and Meaning 1:42 – Host’s Mission and Series Kickoff 2:39 – Introducing Dr. Patricia Gerbarg 3:48 – Why Breath Body Mind Exists 7:31 – Global Growth and Going Online 12:18 – Scope, Impact, and Ukraine Programs 16:24 – From Psychoanalysis to Mass Healing 20:31 – A Child’s Panic to Schoolwide Resilience 24:20 – Gerbarg’s Public Speaking Breakthrough 28:18 – Early Life and Path to Psychiatry 36:58 – Discovering Breath After Illness 41:04 – How Breathing Shapes Emotion 47:14 – Publishing the Vagal Theory 52:59 – Using Breath Clinically for Trauma 59:22 – Building a Safe, Effective Sequence 1:03:24 – Focus, Agency, and the Ha Breath 1:06:07 – Coherent Breathing as the Foundation 1:11:47 – Evidence From 9/11 to Schools 1:16:47 – Inflammatory Bowel Disease Trial 1:22:00 – Why Breakthroughs Lack Headlines 1:27:04 – Real-World Results in Irish Schools 1:30:48 – Rwanda’s Community Healing Model 1:37:18 – Perpetrators, Forgiveness, Reintegration 1:42:49 – Meaning as Connectedness 1:47:44 – Rapid-Fire: Love, Art, and AdviceSubscribe to the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter:https://developingmeaning.substack.com/subscribeDeveloping Meaning is NOT MEDICAL ADVICE and is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS.Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan MailIn this New Year’s episode, I explore the very real consequences of last year’s Past Year Review. Most notably, I decided to retire from a beloved community mental health clinic and launch Park West Integrative Psychiatry — sparked by a desire for creativity, continued learning, and a growing belief in integrative trauma-informed approaches such as EMDR, Internal Family Systems, ketamine-assisted therapy, hypnosis, and breath-based practices.This episode reflects on how intentionally examining meaning and purpose can lead to significant life changes — changes that invite both opportunity and risk, excitement and fear.To close the episode, I share a recording of my retirement speech from the clinic, which turns into an unexpected sing-along and a fitting ritual for marking the end of one chapter and the beginning of another.Chapters0:13 — Nerves and a Big Career Pivot 0:52 — Last Year’s Review and 2025 Intentions 1:46 — Leaving a Beloved Community Clinic 2:46 — Why Change Now, and What’s Next 3:09 — New Directions in Trauma Treatment and Psychiatry 4:05 — Building Park West Integrative Psychiatry 5:02 — Fear, Complexity, and Finding Balance 6:00 — A Cautious Note on Year-End Reviews 6:20 — Reflections on Podcast Growth 7:06 — Upcoming Group Therapies and Retreats 7:54 — Yellowstone Lessons and Old Friends 8:40 — Gratitude, Global Listeners, and What’s Next 9:11 — Retirement Speech and Sing-AlongSign up for the Developing Meaning Substack newsletter for updates and behind-the-scenes reflections.Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz. Developing Meaning is produced by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan MailHappy New Year!  It's time to do a meaning inventory in order to set intentions for 2026.  Toward that end I am re-posting my meaning inventory from last year.  Our next episode will delve into how these unfolded and are leading to major career changes.This episode invites listeners to engage in a meaningful past year review, turning away from traditional resolutions toward a more insightful approach to personal growth. By exploring the themes of beginner's mind, questioning assumptions, and the importance of consilience, Dr. Dirk Winter provides a framework for navigating mental health and self-discoveryWe cover:.• Dissecting the concept of a past year review • Sharing personal peaks and lows from 2024 • Introducing guiding themes for 2025: beginner's mind, questioning assumptions, and consilience • Exploring the significance of various healing modalities • Challenging traditional mental health assumptions • Encouraging listeners to conduct their own past year review and set meaningful intentions Go ahead, do your past year review, get yourself maybe into some beginner's mind question patterns, look for areas of consilience, or come up with your own ideas or mantras for the coming year.Them Music by The Thrashing SkumzProduced by Dirk Winter

Send us Fan MailMike Mandel is a world-leading hypnotist with over 50 years of professional experience. He's performed nearly 5,000 stage shows, trained over 10,000 students at his Toronto hypnosis academy, and co-hosts the Brain Software podcast.Our conversation bridges hypnosis, Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, pain management, and meaning-making—showing how different healing traditions can discover the same truths about how minds heal.Whether you're a therapist curious about hypnosis, an IFS practitioner, or simply fascinated by how minds work and heal, this conversation will expand your understanding.You'll hear:The "bungalow model" of ego states and stunning parallels with IFS therapyHow hypnosis stopped a severe burn from forming (tiny firemen with liquid nitrogen!)The history of hypnosis from ancient Egypt to Milton EricksonWhy you need at least three models of reality (not just one)How Mike reframed chronic pain from suffering into a reminder he's aliveKitchen surgery stories that will blow your mindRapid-fire questions about meaning, legacy, and what matters most⚠️ WARNING: Mike starts with a brief hypnotic demonstration. Pay attention—the more you focus, the more you'll experience it. We unpack how he did it at the end."Everything is an ego state issue without exception." — Mike MandelKey Timestamps05:50 - The Forgetting Demonstration07:28 - Ego States & The Bungalow Model15:23 - IFS & Hypnosis: Stunning Parallels21:50 - The Frozen Baby: A Profound Healing Story35:25 - Pain vs. Suffering40:52 - The Burn Treatment Story45:55 - What IS Trance?56:26 - History of Hypnosis: Mesmer to Erickson1:07:44 - How the Forgetting Demo Worked1:18:18 - Rapid-Fire Meaning QuestionsResourcesMikeMandelHypnosis.comBrain Software PodcastDeveloping Meaning is NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY INSTITUTIONS and is NOT INTENDED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.Theme Music by The Thrashing Skumz.Produced by Dirk Winter and Caroline HintonBrought to you by Consilient Mind LLC.

Send us Fan MailJoanne Twombly, LCSW and author of Trauma Informed Internal Family Systems, has been treating complex trauma and dissociative disorders for over 30 years. In this conversation, she explores how right-brain modalities such as EMDR, hypnosis, and Internal Family Systems (IFS) can sometimes heal what words cannot. We also discuss the evolution of dissociative disorder diagnoses, the book Sybil and false memory controversies, the limits of traditional talk therapy, and the deeper role of meaning in recovery.Timestamps 0:00 Welcome to Trauma-Informed Healing 2:57 Understanding IFS and Parts Work 8:40 From MPD to Hypnosis: Joanne's Journey 15:19 Why Traditional Therapy Falls Short 21:07 Dissociative Disorders Explained 29:05 Deep Brain Reorienting and Body-Based Approaches 36:39 Working with Transference and Meaning 48:29 Final Wisdom: Purpose in Healing Work 1:15:54 Episode Closing and Next Month PreviewProduced by Dirk Winter.Theme music by The Thrashing Skumz.Developing Meaning is NOT medical advice and is not affiliated with any institution.