11. Unknown Unknowns: Risk and Uncertainty

The phrase “using data to tell stories” is so commonly used nowadays that it runs the risk of becoming a cliche, if it hasn’t become one already. This episode’s guest flips this logic around - instead of using data to tell stories, he uses stories to teach data science! Arvind Venkatadri is a faculty member at Srishti Manipal School of Art, Design and Technology. His research/teaching interests include TRIZ, Computation in R, Design using Open Source Electronics Hardware, and Complexity Science. He is part of the School of Foundation Studies at SMI. This is a very wide ranging conversation. We talk about, among other things, The Three Musketeers, Lawrence of Arabia and Legally Blonde. We talk about how Arvind leverages all of these to teach his students data science and logic and game theory. At a time when the field of data science is rife with “pile stirring”, where a large section of practitioners treat it as an extension of software engineering, Arvind’s approach, centred on stories and the human experience, is really refreshing. His approach also gives a pointer on how to widen the base in terms of attracting people into data science.  I must apologise for one thing - this conversation was recorded during Deepavali in November 2021, so you can occasionally hear the sound of firecrackers in the background. I really hope you can get past that and listen to Arvind’s stories. Show Notes 00:03:00: Arvind’s journey into teaching Data Science in an art school 00:05:45: Teaching data science to art students 00:15:45: Teaching statistics through art and stories. Wassily Kandinsky 00:23:00: Teaching coding through art 00:31:00: Shapes and colours and emotions 00:44:00: Lawrence of Arabia (can’t say more here in the description!) 00:50:00: Data science and the human experience Links: Arvind’s homepage Arvind on Twitter Arvind’s course on R for artists and designers An intro to Wassily Kandinsky's work Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies. You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com

There is a conception, or misconception, that journalists are not good at maths. It is rather common to see newspaper headlines and graphics that make basic mathematical and logical errors. On the other hand, in the last decade or so, we have seen a massive rise in “data journalism”. With more and more data being available, journalists are able to write stories exclusively based on data. How do these two square off? To answer this, we have Sukumar Ranganathan, editor in chief of the Hindustan Times. He was previously editor of Mint, of which he was one of the founding editors. It was while he was at Mint that he gave a big push to the then nascent field of “data journalism”, inviting writers such as HowIndiaLives, Rukmini S and myself to write data-backed pieces for Mint. He has previously worked in editorial leadership roles at The Hindu Businessline and Business Today. Sukumar has degrees in chemical engineering, maths, and business administration, and is interested in mathematics, science and technology, the history of business, new media, and data-based political journalism. He reads and collects comic books and is an amateur birder. He tweets under the ID @HT_ed Show Notes: 00:03:15: Are journalists really bad at maths? 00:16:30: Impact of bad data on public policy, and information theory 00:21:00: How data in journalism has changed in the last 20-25 years 00:23:00: The data journalism story 00:31:15: Judging a data story 00:45:30: Advice to budding data journalists Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies. You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com

There are two dominant programming languages used for data science nowadays - R and Python, each having its own set of loyal users. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. In this episode, we look at what each langauge is good and bad at, what kind of people are more likely to use each, and how being able to program in both and switch seamlessly can indeed be a superpower. Today’s guest is Abdul Majed Raja RS, a Data Scientist at Atlassian. Abdul Majed likes to call himself an Analytics Consultant with over a decade of experience helping organisations solve their business problems. He's also a Content Creator trying to help newcomers navigate the Data Science space easily and learn continuously. You can find him on Twitter and on Youtube at 1littlecoder.  Show Notes:  00:03:00: How Abdul got into analytics 00:05:30: MS Excel in data science 00:07:45: When to use R and when to use Python 00:17:00: What data scientists can learn from software engineers 00:24:30: Graphics and visualisations in R and Python 00:26:45: Machine learning in R and Python 00:29:15: Why the Indian market in Data Science leans towards Python 00:34:45: Working with databases 00:37:30: Building dashboards in R and Python 00:47:00: Working with R *and* Python at the same time 00:51:30: What about Excel and Julia? Links I don't like Notebooks - Joel Grus  -  Interface between R and Python - reticulate. Julia Silge Youtube Channel for latest Tidymodels tutorials Advantages of Using R Notebooks For Data Analysis Instead of Jupyter Notebooks - Max Woolf Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies. You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com

Over the last decade, we have seen tremendous advances in big data, data science, artificial intelligence and machine learning. Every compnay wants to be a tech-first comapny now, and wants to “do data science". Companies can probably double their valuation by just adding a  “.ai" to their names. Companies that actually use artificial intelligence and machine learning maybe have an even higher premium on their valuations. However, is Data Science worth the hype? Is AI going to take over the world?  And why is data science being eaten by computer science? What happned to classical analytics, operations resarch and statistics? This week’s guest is someone who did data science even before the phrase had b een invented. Amaresh Tripathy is SVP and Analytics Business Leader at Genpact. Till recently he was a Partner with PWC, leading the firm’s Data & Analytics Consulting, and helped build a $500mm business. Previously, Amaresh founded and co-led the Information and Analytics Practice for Diamond Management & Technology Consultants, and also serves as Adjunct Professor of Data Science and Business Analytics at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte. Amaresh has helped Fortune 500 companies in multiple industries (healthcare, retail & consumer, communications) to help define and implement their analytics and AI strategies and institutionalize data enabled decision making.  He has led organizations to help embed analytics in their front, middle and back office functions and manage the change process. Show Notes: 00:03:00: Definitions - data science, artificial intelligence, machine learning, etc. 00:04:15: The rise of computer science and machine learning 00:10:15: The probelm with Kaggle, and the “race for accuracy” 00:11:30: How to scale analytics without doing bad data analysis 00:18:00: How selling data science has changed over the last decade 00:23:00: The interaction between business and Data Science 00:26:30: “Creating bilinguals at scale” 00:30:30: Machine learning trying to eat data science 00:39:00: Comparing data science practices across countries Links: Thomas Davenport and DJ Patil on Data Science as the “sexiest job of the 21st century” (2012 article) Hal Varian on statistics as a “sexy job” Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog

In this edition of data chatter, we will talk about maps. Maps are excellent devices for telling stories. Think of the maps you see around election times that show which parties won seats where. in fact, the first ever scatter plot - Dr. John Snow’s figure of cholera cases in London, was essentially a map. Or think of the famous map of Napoleon’s invasion of Russia. And telling stories through maps is an exercise in data science. Data overlaid on maps can help tell really powerful stories. And as we learn in today’s conversation, the process of mapping is no diferent from the process of data science. Our guest is Raj Bhagat Palanichamy, or as he calls himself “mapper for life”. Raj works for the World Resources Insitute India, where he leads projects on urban development, water resources and transport. In this conversation, Raj talks about his journey into mapping, how he makes his maps, and how WWE influences the way he tells his stories. Highlights: 00:03:00: Raj's journey into the world of maps and mapmaking 00:06:15: The process of creating maps to tell stories 00:12:30: Choosing colours 00:17:00: The importance of annotations in storytelling 00:23:15: Data, digitisation and tools 00:35:45: Taking inspiration from WWE to construct "stories" with maps 00:42:13: Mapping cities versus mapping landscapes 00:44:30: Where is mapping underrated and overrated? Raj's 30 day map challenge in 2020 Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog

The fundamental principle underlying all analytics and data science is Probability. And probability was first invented, or should I say discovered, to assess risk. So what is risk? Can we quantify and measure it? How do we handle risk in life? Is risk always bad? Today’s guest on Data Chatter is Bala Vamsi Tatavarthy, who is co-founder and investment advisor at Aravali Asset Management, a global arbitrage fund. Vamsi was my classmate at IIT Madras, where he studied computer science but spent most of his time gaming. He then went to IIM Ahmedabad, where he continued to game heavily and graduated with a gold medal. He now runs a hedge fund, and spends a lot of time gaming.  Moreover, he was one of the last traders to trade on behalf of Lehman Brothers, on 15th September 2008.  Risk, as you can imagine, is a vast subject, and so this is a long podcast. We talk about measuring risk, problems with too much measurement of risk, how risk can be managed, and all that. We also talk about movies, games, the differneces between poker and bridge and physics envy. Show Notes 00:03:45: Defining Risk, and Lehman Brothers’ collapse 00:09:00: Can risk be created or destoryed? Is it conserved? 00:15:00: Risk, probability distributions and long tails 00:20:45: Uncertainty, volatility and risk 00:28:30: Hedging 00:35:00: Utility functions 00:42:30: Games and risk 00:54:00: Bridge and poker, and finite and infinite games 01:04:15: Ergodicity 01:07:30: VaR, Risk-metrics and Goodhart’s Law 01:14:30: Correlation Links: Finite and Infinite Games “Risk once created cannot be destroyed” The Wired article about Gaussian Copula, used to estimate correlations Too Big To Fail, by Andrew Ross Sorkin Ergodicity Economics  Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog

When I was graduating college in the mid 2000s, the word in job descriptions that most commonly appeared alongside “data” was “analytics”. However, around 2010, the phrase “data science” (HBR link) got coined, and took over the world in the next five years. Nowadays it seems everyone wants to be a “data scientist” However, where is the science in data science? And why are so many people with PhDs in pure science moving to data science? To understand this better, I bring back one of the old guests of Data Chatter. Dhanya P is an aerospace engineer turned neuroscientiest turned data scientist. She is co-founder of Messy Fractals and Kabaddi Adda, and a Senior Scientist at Sapien Labs. Dhanya talks about her journey from neuroscience to data science, why a PhD is good training for data science, and what the “science” in data science is all about.  You can follow Dhanya on Twitter at d2a2d Show Notes: 00:02:30: Dhanya’s journey from Aerospace Engineering to Neuroscience to Data Science 00:07:00: Why data science and not academia after PhD 00:11:45: Defining data science, and how she approaches a problem 00:16:00: How a PhD prepares you for a career in data science 00:20:00: Challenges in industry due to academic background 00:23:00: Learning to code 00:26:50: The challenges of working with someone else’s data, and proxies 00:37:30: Communicating results 00:42:45: Are ex-academics better at certain kind of Data Science roles? 00:46:00: “Entropy” in the brain 00:51:30: Revisiting the biomechanics of Kabaddi players, and communicating data to sportspersons Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog

Everyone wants to do “data science”. Companies want to introduce “machine learning” in their products. Most fund raises by startups nowadays are accompanied by a statement of intent to invest in data, and data science. Back in 2006, mathematician Clive Humby, who was working for Tesco, made the statement that “data is the new oil” (to give context, we were in the middle of a massive bull run in oil prices then). And so companies are investing in data. However, just investing in data capture and hiring data scientists is not enough for a company to get value. It is important to structure the relationship between data and business, and how the data team is managed, in the right way for the data team to be effective. Today’s guest is Anuj Krishna. Over the last 14 years, Anuj has worked with multiple enterprises on both, the translation side as well as the execution side of analytics. He has helped create standard processes for analytical problem solving that are in use in multiple enterprises. Anuj was an early employee of MuSigma, and then went on to co-found TheMathCompany. In his current role, Anuj is Head of Assets at TheMathCompany, and is also responsible for operations related to TheMathCompany. Show Notes: 00:03:00: How business and data science currrently interact 00:06:30: Translating from analytics to business 00:13:00: Structuring a data science team 00:22:00: Data science versus business intelligence 00:29:00: How can a business person get best value out of a data team? 00:32:00: Why data science projects fail 00:38:30: Evolution of the data science industry over the last decade Links: Anuj Krishna TheMathCompany (LinkedIn) Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog

There is an ongoing debate on when children should be taught to code. There is one group of people which insists that computer programming is a lifelong skill, and is best taught early. The opposing argument is that coding is possibly a fad, and that children will learn it when they have to. But what about data science? The field itself is less than 15 years old. Does it make sense to introduce it to children at an early age? According to Rahul Raghavan, the guest on this episode, the answer is an overwhelming “yes”. Rahul is a Montessori educator and founder of pep School v2, a Montessori school in Bangalore. Before getting into education, he was in the corporate world, working in impact investing (with VentureEast) and then with Amazon. You can follow him on Twitter at @rahulrg Show Notes: 00:02:55 - Introduction to the Montessori method 00:11:00 - How maths is taught differently in montessori? 00:21:45 - Introducing data science to chlldren 00:29:45 - Tossing coins, and playing cards 00:37:30 - Prerequisites to learning probability and data science 00:40:00 - Discrete maths and graph theory, going into random geekery 00:44:00 - Data visualisation for children 00:51:20 - How parents can introduce “data science” to children Links: Rahul on Twitter Commentary on the viral video on “why should I learn maths?” Florence Nightingale’s chart on causes of death in the Crimean War Geometric intuition on how sqrt(2) + sqrt(3) is approximately equal to pi Edward Tufte's books Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog

One of the first industries to extensively use advanced maths to do better was financial services. Ever since Fischer Black and Myron Scholes published their seminal paper on option pricing in 1973, Wall Street firms hired mathematicians and scientists by the droves, getting them to model asset prices in order to get an edge in the market. Even today, top hedge funds such as Renaissance, Citadel and Two Sigma prefer to hire scientists rather than finance professionals to manage their portfolios. However, in the last decade or so, as Data Science and Artificial Intelligence have taken over the rest of the world, Wall Street has not maintained its leadership position in the use of maths to make money. How and why did this happen? In order to understand this, we talk to Hari Balaji, co-founder of Romulus, an award winning unstructured data automation platform for Financial Services firms. Prior to founding Romulus, Hari spent a decade in quant & data roles at Goldman Sachs across Hong Kong and Singapore. Hari is an alumnus of IIT Madras & IIM Ahmedabad. Show Notes 00:03:15 - What is data science and what is artificial intelligence? 00:10:40 - What Hari’s company does 00:14:00 - Toolbox versus hammer-nail approaches 00:15:00 - This history of math in the financial services industry 00:28:45 - Wall Street is never a first mover but a great follower 00:33:30 - How Wall Street uses data science nowadays 00:41:00 - Why most innovations have happened at smaller firms 00:44:00 - Why the financial industry doesn’t behave like the Tech world Romulus on Twitter Romulus on LinkedIn Data Chatter is a podcast on all things data. It is a series of conversations with experts and industry leaders in data, and each week we aim to unpack a different compartment of the "data suitcase". The podcast is hosted by Karthik Shashidhar. He is a blogger, newspaper columnist, book author and a former data and strategy consultant. Karthik currently heads Analytics and Business Intelligence for Delhivery, one of India’s largest logistics companies.  You can follow him on twitter at @karthiks, and read his blog at noenthuda.com/blog