KBIS Confidential | 588 | Manage Client Expectations and Thrive

This episode’s dropping in June—and if you're listening the day, week, or even month it's released, well, you already know that. I’ve been thinking about adding these time stamps to each episode moving forward. It just helps frame the conversation, especially considering how fast things are changing. I just got back from a swing through California—starting up in the Bay Area and making my way down through Pasadena and LA. I met with some brilliant creatives and brand leaders to talk shop about the market, the mood, and where things stand right now. And if there’s one thing we can all count on these days, it’s the unpredictability of... well, everything. Between extreme weather events, climate challenges, and an ever-shifting political landscape—again, not pointing fingers here—just acknowledging how these forces are impacting the shelter space in very real ways. So, moving forward, expect more context in these intros, and more conversations focused on market dynamics—specification, supply chain challenges, and how brands are staying sharp with costs, design, and materials. Today’s guest is Alexander Dornbracht, Vice President and General Manager of Kallista and Robern, both under the Kohler umbrella. Alex literally grew up in this industry—his family business was in the same space—so he knows it inside and out. And he’s here to give us an unfiltered look at what’s really happening out there. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep A big thank you to Alexander Dornbracht—great catching up, and I really appreciate the insight. And, of course, thank you to our amazing partners: TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. These are incredible companies and true friends of the trade. Please keep them in mind for your next project. Thanks to you for listening, subscribing, and sharing the show with your friends and colleagues. If you haven’t subscribed yet, go ahead and hit that button so you get each new episode delivered straight to your feed. I always love hearing from you, so keep those messages coming—email me at convo by design at outlook dot com and follow along on Instagram, @ConvoXDesign (with an "X"). Until next week—thank you for spending this time with me. Be well, stay focused, and now that chaos has really settled in… do your best to rise above it. —CXD

In a thoughtful and far-ranging conversation, architect Mitch Rocheleau sits down with me to discuss the deeper layers of architecture, the critical importance of reflection in design, and the challenges—and opportunities—presented by rebuilding in the face of disaster. Throughout our exchange, Rocheleau consistently returns to one core belief: architecture is not merely about aesthetics or function, but about the human experience. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep “I think architecture, if you study and reflect on it, write about it, think about it deeply, can be in some ways a storybook,” Rocheleau said early in the conversation. “You can read it and gain profound insights into the people that were building it.” Which is such a dynamic idea and one we just don’t often consider. Thank you Mitch, Amazing. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. Thank you for listening, subscribing to the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed.  Please keep those emails coming convo by design at outlook dot com and follow the conversation on Instagram, @ConvoXDesign with an “X”. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. The Power of Writing in Design Rocheleau has become known not just for his architectural practice, but for his written reflections on the field. These writings—available via Rust Architects—provide critical insight often missing from mainstream discussions of architecture. What drives this urge to document and reflect? Rocheleau sees it as an essential part of the creative process. “As I've gone through that process [of creating], I've begun to feel the intuition or this need to reflect,” he explained. “To say, okay, what am I actually doing? Where is this coming from? What is the work I'm putting into the world?” Such purposeful cogitation creates the framework for managing creative ideas for a greater purpose. This emphasis on writing as a reflective tool, rather than simply a vehicle for promotion or analysis, places Rocheleau in a tradition of architectural thinkers who seek deeper meaning in their work. He draws inspiration from historical figures such as John Ruskin, seeing the built environment as both a product and reflection of civilization. Bridging School and Reality A particularly compelling moment in the interview, for me, came when Mitch and I discuss a comment from architect Brian Pinkett: that architecture school doesn’t teach students how to design, but rather how to think critically. Rocheleau agreed, but pointed out a troubling disconnect between that training and the professional world. “It seems to me that there may be in the path of architecture… a primary path, and then along the way, a series of possibly distractions,” he said. These distractions include software, rendering techniques, and other technical tools that—while valuable—can steer young architects away from their original, human-centered purpose. Rocheleau’s concern is that without conscious reflection, the architectural process becomes reactive, not intentional. He views writing, philosophy, and psychology as tools to reconnect with that original path. “At its essence, it all can come back to the idea of the human and what’s going on in the human’s mind as we’re walking through space.” A Lens on the Farnsworth House Mitch and I discuss one of his recent writings on the Farns...

Twenty-twenty-five will definitely go down as a chaotic year. But listen, I am not going to complain because it’s not productive. Productivity, very difficult to achieve in any field without the freedom of creativity. Creativity is suppressed when worry and doubt are present. I read an article in Psychology Today recently called, How Anxiety Harms Creativity (And What to Do About It). You can find a link in the show notes. The article draws a correlation between anxiety and creativity that outlines why and how fear, exhaustion and doubt can hinder creativity. And how creative types can struggle from this. As a creative who speaks to other creatives, and for you, as a creative listening, we are in the same headspace, think about that for a minute. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep We are all alone, together in the pursuit of meaning, creative expression, love and satisfaction. If you are in constant state of chaos and worry, how can you do your best work. We can’t. Think about Convo By Design as a respite from the external chaos and a place to reconnect with others who are likeminded and in pursuit of the same things you are. And in that effort, today, you are going to hear from Dan D’Agostino, founder and principle architect at Plan Architecture. Dan and I talk about creative freedom and we go into the work they are producing at Plan Architecture. We go into it and one of the things I find so interesting about Dan and his firm is that the work is complex and covers multiple styles and influences. From traditional to modern and much in between.  In addition to external factors complicating the creative process, often, creative types will become fixated on signature style and often, it’s not intentional. It just happens. Creative flexibility is a gift and one you will hear Dan and I explore along with a number of other topics. All in an effort to inspire you, spur creative thought and get you out of your head for a little while. So, let’s get to it. Right after this. Thank you, Dan. Enjoyed this immensely. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. Thank you for listening, subscribing to the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed.  Please keep those emails coming convo by design at outlook dot com and follow the conversation on Instagram, @ConvoXDesign with an “X”. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. - CXD

How’s your weeK? If its anything like every week of 2025 so far, you are probably exhausted from all of the chaos in the world and the industry. But for the next hour or so, take a break and listen to someone who I am absolutely sure will calm you and help get you focused for what’s next. This is the Convo By Design Icon Registry for May 2025 featuring a remarkable creative who has appeared on the show not once, but twice.  During her first appearance in February 2019, here is what I had to say about this months inductee, Joan Behnke… “Joan Behnke founded her namesake design studio in 1999. Since then, she has been trailblazing a path studded with interior design gems from LA to DC. Joan views interior design as a fine art and an exercise in self-expression. It’s both intimate and created for the world to see based on the unique personality of its inhabitant. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep I met Joan at her studio and we sat for quite a while. She is in a really good place. The firm has enjoyed international recognition and while that is important, she has built her firm on her own ideas of what makes the work, good and worthy. I enjoyed my time with Joan, she is soft spoken but her words have tremendous impact and she is fierce in her ideas about design and the personal nature by which she connects it to her clients. We talked about exquisite craftsmanship and lasting beauty, both of which are key elements to her design philosophy. This is Joan Behnke.” I vividly remember sitting with Joan in the conference room of her studio. Joan is soft spoken, disarming and intentional. I read a quote from her years prior in an article from Forbes that resonated with me then and has stayed with me some six years after our first meeting. The quote was, “ I don’t want my clients to just own a personalized piece for their home; I want them to experience it.” This could mean a chandelier, work of art, furnishings but it stems form a broader philosophy that the home itself is to be experienced as a part of their lives and not simply a box one lives in regardless of how expensive or lavish that box might be. That quote in Forbes was from 2013, a full 7 years before the pandemic and an instant rush to find experiential fulfillment in spaces. And it’s not meant for just the uber-wealthy. Joan’s philosophical approach to design can be applied to any budget, any style and any locale.  I think to explore her thoughts and ideas puts those in the industry in an interesting place, one that can lead to exploration of client needs and desires, removing the hype and finding the true essence of what the client needs. Then a talent like Joan can ignore the tariffs, the supply chain and use her exceptional skills to work with what she has available to her. I would love to see what Joan could create with nothing more that flea market finds, big box close-outs and garage sale treasures. I might have to put something like that together, but that is for another day. Today, we are celebrating Joan Behnke, our latest addition to the Convo By Design Icon Registry. And were doing it by looking back to my first conversation with Joan from 2019. Right after this from the presenting sponsor of the Convo By Design Icon Registry, Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Congratulations Joan on your enshrinement into the Convo By Design Icon Registry and thank you for your calm reassurance and impeccable application of skill. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me and sharing your story. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors; TimberTech, Design Hardware and to the Convo By Design Icon Registry presenting partner, Pacific Sales for your dedication to making our industry better, faster, stronger!

I imagine you and I are similar in many ways. When creating my editorial calendar, I try to craft a broader narrative of the design and architecture industry. I view this show as a time capsule being both created and consumed in real time. But if you go back and listen to episodes from 2013 when this podcast was started until now, you will discover an illustrative exposition that both narrates in real time and looking forward to demonstrate where the industry is going by examining where we are. It’s a futuristic approach to the built environment. To be transparent with you, that is the part I enjoy most. Every now and then, like the impact of a meteor, something happens to make us all think about the industry as we know it. As we approach the work. These days, it feels like we are experiencing an unending barrage of meteor strikes which is turning our industry upside down. And, believe it or not, I’m not even talking about tariffs, government chaos, wildfires or the supply chain! Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep We will be reviewing all of these, but not today. In 2018, you might have heard a conversation I published from the LA Design Festival on the topic of intellectual property rights, IP law and how it was affecting the industry. In the following episode, I will be introducing you to Andrew McBride, Partner @ Adams & Reese and Carter Pope, Associate @ Adams & Reese. I found Andrew and Carter while on a journey of exploration, there is a case moving it’s way through the legal system called Aaron and Samantha Judge v. Drew Designs, LLC. This is a case about a design relationship gone wrong rife with communication issues, contract issues and a litany of other things that make for a messy professional relationship that winds up in the courts. McBride and Pope authored an article called, “Hidden Ball Trick” - Yankees’ Aaron Judge Case Involving Deception Carries Lessons for Contractors.  I’ve added a link in the show notes and I highly recommend this for contractors, architects and designers. The following conversation covers a number of issues that led to both parties winding up in court and as you are going to hear, much if not all of this could have been avoided. In addition to this case, we also explore, the Judd Foundation v. Clements Design, Inc. in a case that will surely affect the future of dupes as well as another case winding it’s way through the courts like a medieval knight moving through the digestive tract of a money guzzling dragon, Gifford v. Sheil. Perhaps the metaphor is too graphic, I’ll rethink that one. But it fits. The law is a complicated knot of ideas and it seems to me the best way to avoid legal entanglements is to do good business in the first place and when disagreements come up, and they will, you work hard to find common ground and squash it. And this is why. You will hear the whole conversation with Andrew McBride and Carter Pope of Adams & Reese, right after this. Thank you, Andrew and Carter. Enlightening. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. Thank you for listening, subscribing to the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed.  Please keep those emails coming convo by design at outlook dot com and follow the conversation on Instagram, @ConvoXDesign with an “X”. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. - CXD

We have come to a tipping point in the business of design. The point of no return. There has been a debate about form following function since architect Louis Sullivan coined the term. A protege named Frank Lloyd Wright once said, “Form follows function, that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union.” This will most likely not go over well with the most ardent FLW supporters and fans, but I believe Wright misunderstood this as well. Sullivan suggested that form following function meant the design should speak to the intended purpose of a structure and not simply be reflective of historical design, ornamentation or precedents. I won’t speak for anyone but myself when I say that I have toured a number of Wright’s works and I don’t agree with his take on form following function. This will and should be debated, but not today. Today, we are going to focus on how form must follow function, or the project won’t perform. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep Today, you are going to hear from Parini Mehta, AIA LEED AP, Tanner Clapham, AIA and Michael Stebbins, AIA from CO Architects. CO Architects, a firm dedicated to perpetual innovation and continual improvement through collaboration. This is a firm dedicated to creating lasting impact through design and the following conversation is evidence of that. This conversation is about the collaborative nature of an architecture firm that allows their architects to work on different types of projects and share their typology specialty while learning new ones in real time. We are discussing; education architecture, healthcare, medical facilities, laboratory architecture, research and exploring the idea of future-proofing structures from affects of both seen and unseen factors. I’m so appreciative for this opportunity to explore these ides with the incredible creatives. Since 2017, Convo By Design has been featuring peer-to-peer conversations from showrooms across the country. This one was recorded live from Design Hardware in Los Angeles.  There has always been a deep divide between residential and commercial architecture. While I won’t rant about it today. Since the days of Julia Allison focused on the rise to celebrity through internet fame, we as a society have been discussing design and architecture through social value, not performative value. When you see your favorite design publication of website feature the latest celebrity home, you fill find that not much attention, if any has been focused on the performative value of the space. Much of what we see is about materiality, aesthetic, brands and it’s usually focused on a celebrity. And that’s fine. Design porn is not new, but it also doesn’t do much for moving the conversation forward. What conversation? How do top tier architects and the firms that employ them focus on commercial design, and create form that follows function in an environment where the function not only matters, but is critical to the success of the project? That is the conversation we should be having. And we are. You are going to hear it, right after this. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep Thank you Parini, Michael and Tanner for taking the time to visit. Thank you to all of the professionals at CO Architects for your skill and willingness to share. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. Thank you for listening,

This is the final installment of KBIS Confidential Creative Conversations LIVE from KBIS 2025 and for this one, we enter the Business & Trends track from the programming from the NextStge. In this session, we explore strategies for balancing client expectations with tight budgets and turn challenges into opportunities for growth in today’s ever-changing and challenging economy. I moderated this program which was an honor and a joy for a number of reasons and the best part was the incredible group of creatives empaneled for this really important talk; Arianne Bellizaire, Owner & Creative Director, Arianne Bellizaire Interiors LLC, Kim Gordon, Lead Designer, Kim Gordon Designs and Lisa McDennon, Principal, Lisa McDennon Design. Because you are the amazing listeners and friends of the show, you have heard from Lisa and Kim on the show previously and while Arianne is new to the show, it will not be the last time you hear from her. This conversation was extraordinary for so many reasons that you will hear for yourself. If you are a design professional trying to: Navigate the daily changes in levels of consumer confidence Upgrading your clientele Matching the energy of your clients Creating strategic partnerships Putting your face, firm and story into the public to gain notoriety and promotion of your work Prepare for wild price and changes in product availability  Future proof your business Well, the following conversation was created just for you. Enjoy

Things are changing. Can you feel it? I can. The mood in the design, architecture, built space is changing in response to external factors. Those external factors are being felt in numerous ways. I’ll give you an example and we don’t about this much, not nearly enough. Hardening of the enclosure in architecture is leading to new ways architects are approaching the exterior envelope of projects to address the threats brought on by climate change. Remember ‘global warming’? That was a misnomer, it’s climate change. Design has and in large part is still focused on aesthetic, but that too is changing. Are you changing with it? Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep Change is hard. All change is hard. But without change, there is no evolution. Without evolving, we do the same things over and over regardless of the outcome. I have changed, Convo By Design has changed. Seemingly everyone has a podcast now, and it feels like every editorial headline is ‘something’ by design. 12 years ago, neither was that way. I see how my own editorial approach has changed, these conversations we share each week have changed and the industry is changing as well. Not by choice, but because, as the quote from Moneyball goes, “Adapt or die”. Today, you are going to listen in on my conversation with Steph Schlegelmilch, founder and chief creative director of Studio Seva. This Westport, Connecticut based creative blends a holistic approach with technical application. Steph shares her thoughts on a number of ideas affecting the business of design today, and these ideas are not going away any time soon. They include;  An appreciation of and learning form failure Experience and collaboration Exploration of style, techniques and materials Styling and photography Trend translation , modification and the edit process Home styling challenges Lighting design Partnerships All of these ideas should be taught in a formal design education. Sadly, they are not. But you can find them explored here. So, enjoy this episode with Studio Seva’s Steph Schlegelmilch. Thank you, Steph. Enjoyed this. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. Thank you for listening, subscribing to the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed.  Please keep those emails coming convo by design at outlook dot com and follow the conversation on Instagram, @ConvoXDesign with an “X”. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. - CXD

This year, KBIS brought a whole new energy. This new energy and vibe was brought on by a number of issues on the minds of both design creatives, their clients and the brands that hope to be included in future projects. I think it was also fueled by a discomfort. One that many if not most of us are feeling by the political chaos created by this new administration. Now listen, before you get tribal on me, hear me out. Regardless for whom you voted, when a new administration comes in, they get to make the changes they see fit. And it doesn’t really matter if you agree or disagree, it is a fact of life and elections have consequences. That was the topic of discussion that elevated above all others and I believe that this discomfort being felt has motivated many creatives to reengage in their business and recommit to to their craft despite the head winds headed our way. And you are going to hear some of those conversations! KBIS, the Kitchen and Bath Industry Show, in partnership with the National Kitchen and Bath Association is one of the few “must attend” shows. The event itself is 3 days of brands, talks, programming, events and happenings while combined with the International Builders Show in the same footprint of the Las Vegas Convention Center. Every first-time attendee to the show is gobsmacked by the sheer volume of people and product. Even those who are veterans of the event seem annually surprised by the amount of walking, talking and lack of physical preparedness required to fully navigate this show. KBIS is on my list of annual must-attend events for specifiers, designers, architects and design-build firms. Why? There are a few reasons for this and following is a comprehensive, possibly incomplete, but significant nonetheless. Networking - If there is someone in the industry that you are hoping to meet, there is a very good chance that they are at KBIS. Even if they aren’t, you will certainly meet others with whom you can find strategic opportunities. The event itself is optimally conducive to unplanned “run ins”, scheduled meetings and introductions. Surprise and Delight - Finding new products, materials and services are what makes the idea of a trade show so enticing. You don’t know what you don’t know and an event of this size makes the process of discovery fun and effective. The amount of product interaction over 3 days in over 1 million square feet of convention space is certainly an opportunity to find new products to incorporate into your designs. Learning and Education - The amount of programming that takes place over these three days is significant. There are opportunities to learn a great deal about a vast number of topics in a short period of time making this one of those rare opportunities that matches your preparedness and willingness to learn equal to the number of opportunities available. In other words, there are more available to you than you could possibly attend. We  explore what’s cooking at this year’s KBIS. John shares what SKS is most excited about, the can't-miss products from the brand, and even reveals which SKS products he has in his own home. Plus, we dive into the future of SKS, discuss creative design installations, and get John’s take on the latest trends in kitchen innovation. Topics discussed include; The SKS advantage What is a Technicurean Advantages to cooking with modern appliances Product design How SKS supports the design community through opportunity and education Benefits of a national service team Technological approach to cooking

Application and practical application of tools and techniques. These are just a few of the topics discussed in today’s conversation with designer Maggie Griffin, founder of eponymous firm in Gainesville, Georgia. We are discussing more than design today. A lot more, actually. The changing landscape of the industry and staying ahead of the curve. Oh, that pesky curve. Designer Resources Pacific Sales Kitchen and Home. Where excellence meets expertise. Design Hardware - A stunning and vast collection of jewelry for the home!  - Where service meets excellence TimberTech - Real wood beauty without the upkeep The trouble with the curve, and staying ahead of it is that if you don’t actively stay ahead of it, it passes you by before you know it. Like AI for example. Many designers fear it, most don’t really understand it. Those choosing to ignore it, or simply dabble won’t lose their clients because of AI. They will lose their clients to designers who adapt and understand how to best use AI in unimaginable ways that will take costs down, increase specification of better products and materials, shrink the timeline and make the absolute most of every designable opportunity. It’s true. Maggie and I are chopping this up along with a number of other ideas like; Exploring AI tools in practice AI and interior design application Industry trends and challenges Achieving balance of technology and residential design Kitchen design Product specification and client trust Bathroom design concepts Achieving functionality without sacrificing aesthetic  Thank you, Maggie. Enjoyed this. Thank you to my incredible partner sponsors, TimberTech, Pacific Sales, and Design Hardware. Amazing companies and great friends to the trade so please give them an opportunity for your next project. Thank you for listening, subscribing to the show and sharing with your colleagues. If not already subscribing, please consider that so you receive every new episode automatically to your podcast feed. Please keep those emails coming convo by design at outlook dot com and follow the conversation on Instagram, @ConvoXDesign with an “X”. Until next week, thank you for sharing this time together, until the next episode, be well, stay focused and now that it has arrived in earnest, try to rise above the chaos. - CXD