In Conversation With...Ella Wiles and Andres Roberts

In this episode, Katie continues last week’s conversation with Tamu Thomas a renowned transformational life coach, dedicated to guiding women towards achieving work-life harmony by embracing holistic well-being practices that align with their nervous system. Katie & Tamu explore:The term ‘high-functioning freeze’Defiant hope & rage Activism v Martyrdom And of course, the final quick fire round of season 4!You can connect with Tamu hereWebsite: https://www.livethreesixty.com/ and https://www.womenwhoworktoomuch.co/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamu.thomas/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/livethreesixty/Learn more about Tamu’s membership here: https://live-three-sixty.mykajabi.com/membership Here are some highlights:I learned that it was unsafe for me to express rage “Rage is part of the human experience, rage, emotion, energy in motion, rage is energy in motion that says you've got to make a change, whether it's externally or internally, but instead, we hold on to it, and have a lot of like, bitterness and resentment inside. And we get sidetracked with that. So we avoid the real issue. And we make it all about the anger or the rage.”Empowerment to build momentum"My life is mine, square with a life of service means that your life has to be of service to you too. Because if your life is not a service to you too, if you are giving away all of your lifeforce energy, you're not actually doing activism, you're doing martyrdom. Our planet doesn't need any more martyrs. Social justice causes for human beings, animals around the world doesn't need any more martyrs what they need, or what these things we believe in need, is for us to be and this word, sometimes it gets on my nerves, but it is for us to be empowered. Because when we are empowered, rather than doing things in fits and spurts, we can actually build momentum and have a compounding effect. And I say this to my clients. And I say to myself all the time. Social justice is not just if it's not just for you too, we don't need any more martyrs. "Books & Podcasts mentioned:10x Is Easier Than 2x, Benjamin HardyUpstream Podcast Broken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world.Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us! Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie talks to Tamu Thomas a renowned transformational life coach and the author of "Women Who Work Too Much: Break Free from Toxic Productivity and Find Your Joy." She is dedicated to guiding women towards achieving work-life harmony by embracing holistic well-being practices that align with their nervous system. Tamu's groundbreaking book sheds light on the systemic pressures that force women into a cycle of over-functioning, often leading to significant workplace stress and an imbalanced share of emotional and domestic responsibilities. Drawing on her extensive background in social work, she has a profound understanding of the systemic roots of these issues, particularly the disproportionate impact they have on women. Tamu's unique coaching methodology is deeply influenced by somatic practices and Polyvagal theory, focusing on helping women rebuild a connection with their core selves, establish healthy boundaries, and forming a strong sense of self-trust. She is especially attuned to the nuanced challenges faced by Black women and women of the global majority, navigating what she terms ‘the trinity of oppression’: patriarchy, white supremacy, and capitalism. In her own words, Tamu asserts, "We don’t need more self-improvement; we need systemic change.” Her approach is not just about personal transformation but about sparking wider societal shifts. Her insights and guidance are invaluable for those seeking a life filled with fulfillment, deep connections, and genuine joy, amidst the demands of our fast-paced world.Linked with the “nurture” pillar of the Making Design Circular framework, Katie & Tamu discuss:The new book Women Who Work Too Much – Break Free from Toxic Productivity and Find Your Joy!Toxic ProductivityOur connection with nature and why it’s soWhy it’s so important that we reconnect mind and bodySimple ways we should be honouring our basic needsWhy we shouldn’t be adopting a belief that we’re brokenYou can connect with Tamu here:Website: https://www.livethreesixty.com/ and https://www.womenwhoworktoomuch.co/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamu.thomas/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/livethreesixty/Learn more about Tamu’s membership here: https://live-three-sixty.mykajabi.com/membership Here are some episode highlights:Recognise we’re not designed to go it alone“The beauty is as human beings we're not designed to go it alone. So it can feel really daunting when we feel like oh my goodness, the system is rigged, for most of us to be at fault, for most of us to fail, when we recognise that we can start to embody the genius of our species, which is connection, and compassion, and all of that stuff. And we can start to work together to create systems and structures that care for us and our planet.” The Idea of Toxic Productivity“We don't just breathe in, we need to breathe in, we need to exhale. And in fact, something I say all the time is, the rest is quite often more important than the race. The rest is what sets us up. And we often talk about being part of nature. Actually, no, we are nature. We are all children of this earth. Whilst we were born of our mother's wombs, we are all children of this earth, there is nothing on this earth that is productive, that is producing all the time. Even our evergreen trees have times of rest and dormancy. We're not supposed to be doing that all the time. It is unnatural. So as we stepped into the industrial revolution, we started making all of these machines to make our life easier. But once we identified that we could create mass, and people could consume more. And that mass would result into profit it was profit and growth above everything else. So it shifted how we experience ourselves. And generally speaking, we started to compare ourselves to the machines we created to make our lives easier. And that's when we started talking more about consistency.” Capitalist Conditioning“let's be real, there are many times in life where we do have to go beyond our bandwidth sometimes. But it's about recognising the difference, so that we can make choices and we can do that for finite periods of time. We have a sympathetic nervous system for a reason, we go into states of fight or flight for a reason, they're not all bad, but it's a finite period of time. What happens in our culture is that the rules of capitalism say, actually, you should always be beyond your capacity, that's a good work ethic, that's being efficient, that is being somebody who is reliable. And it just conditions us, if you think of us like a piece of elastic, it conditions us to always be overstressed over stretched elastic. And so we have situations where people use anxiety as a motivational tool. None of this stuff will happen overnight, but over time, we can start being motivated by what feels good, what's in service of our long term good, as opposed to constantly being motivated by anxiety, which is our body's warning signal for terror.”Books & Podcasts mentioned:10x Is Easier Than 2x, Benjamin HardyUpstream PodcastBroken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world.Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us! Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie talks to Lucy Hawthorne. Lucy is a campaigner at heart and Founder of Climate Play. Through play-based training and facilitation for adults, she helps make it safe, light and fun for people to face climate change. Combining a lot of LEGO with climate psychology, she creates conversation on the topic that teams actually want to have, rather than only feel like they should. Her serious play approach helps people to engage more honestly, deeply and creatively, identifying ways to build alignment and shared action within their organisations, whether they are getting started or have gotten stuck on their sustainability journey. Climate Play was born after Lucy spent a good while in the charity and NGO-world and became concerned the heaviness of the conversation was affecting energy to act. So now she challenges the norm of serious seriousness as always the best way to get things done. She is a qualified coach and LEGO® Serious Play® facilitator. During this Katie & Lucy discuss:How Climate Play came aboutUnderstanding what Play is and how its definedWhere Play comes in to a topic such as the climate crisisHow to use her safe, light, fun form of engagement with environmentalismintrinsic versus extrinsic motivation. The overlap between choice, wonder and delight as well…Play archetypes and how they help us engage with environmentalismYou can connect with Lucy here:www.climateplay.orghttps://www.linkedin.com/in/lucyhawthorne/https://www.linkedin.com/company/[email protected] Climate Play Meetup (first Thurs of the month 1300 – 1400 GMT) https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/o/lucy-hawthorne-founderfacilitator-climate-play-29888274577 Here are some highlights:Origin of Climate Play“Climate play is in essence, trying to find different ways of really tapping into people's motivations and really trying to create spaces where people can engage in subjects that they don't really want to and that feels very different to a very hard hitting strategic approach that I spent many years, many years doing.”Become the best version of yourself“How many people actually fulfil their own moral compass? Very few, even people who are very dedicated, we're not perfect beings. And therefore, there's something about what will you always want to do. I'm not saying that if everyone suddenly untapped their playfulness, then climate change is going to disappear into a puff of smoke. But I think there is just something about reframing the way we engage with things. Whether that is thinking about and understanding (your audiences) motivations? What are they doing? If you're thinking about how you run initiatives in your company, or you're trying to think about how your family considers sustainability, there is just something about finding a combination of the things that you love doing, the things that you're good at doing, and the things that the world needs some support on. It's not a magic silver bullet, but I think there's something about understanding your sense of playfulness, you are highly likely to be more engaged. And when you are engaged, you're likely to be a better version of yourself.” Books, Podcasts & Articles we mentioned:The Art of Peace by John Paul LederachInternational School of BillundGood Bones by Maggie SmithPlay by Stuart BrownThe Dangers of Smoking in Bed by Mariana EnriquezYou’re Dead to Me, BBC Radio 4 PodcastUsing Play to Rewire & Improve Your Brain, Huberman Labs PodcastBroken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world.Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us!Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie talks to Ella Wiles and Andres Roberts from The Bio-Leadership Project. The Bio-Leadership Project’s mission is to change the story of leadership by working with nature. A movement of people and organisations, changing human systems to be more resilient, regenerative, and designed to protect our planet.Bio-Leadership is about challenging an outdated story of progress, about building organisations and communities that protect and replenish our world. Most importantly, it is about reconnecting human progress back into our planet’s web of life. Working at this deep paradigm level, growing a culture of interconnection, is where we support the greatest change. During this episode, Katie, Ella & Andres discuss:How the Bio-Leadership Project can to existenceThe importance of nature connectionHow environmentalism isn’t about sacrifice and punishment and how we can actually be more helpful as environmentalists if we're well resourced and taking care of ourselvesThe three circle model: Self, our community and our workThe idea of ecosophy – deep experiences, deep questioning, deep commitment You can connect with Ella & Andres herehttps://www.bio-leadership.org/IG: @bioleadershipproject Here are some highlights:Collectively shifting what the story of human progress can be“The Bio Leadership Project effectively says there are there are different stories of what human progress looks like, and they can work with nature, and they can be inspired by nature. And even more than that, they can place people or humans back into being part of nature. Its about validating as many different stories as possible and needed. What we’ve seen is that there are just hundreds, if not 1000s, of amazing, inspired, courageous people saying, Yeah, we can change the story, we're going to do it. And it's just that they're all still swimming against the tide, you know, including ourselves, and nobody can do it alone. So the bio Leadership Project and the bio leadership fellowship are ways of helping these people and projects to connect, to share learning, hope and encouragement, and hopefully helping collectively to shift what the story of human progress can be, to care for life. A change is needed in how we measure leadership“We as individuals, but collectively, and then sort of as human society probably need a different set of qualities around how we navigate this moment in time and how we bring a positive change to the world. And you could argue that we're all a little bit conditioned by a way of acting, a way of being, a way of behaving that's about pushing, it's about driving, it's about achieving outcomes. And so if we were to just continuously repeat those behaviours, we might just end up with the same outcomes, even if the intention is to do good things in the world. What if, as humans, we had a different dashboard, what if we measure our progress in a different way? What qualities would that require? We need more resilience, we need more connection, we need more systemic awareness, the capacity to understand how things work as whole systems and flow as whole system. We need to be able to navigate and adapt better. What if leadership was measured by those things? Books, Podcasts & Articles we mentioned:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Nhất_HạnhEcology of Wisdom by Arne NaessThere is no point of no return by Arne NaessStrangers: Essays on the Human and Nonhuman by Rebecca TamasJust Kids by Patti SmithGood to Great by Jim CollinsSky Above, Earth Below: Spiritual practice in nature buy John P MiltonThe Spaceship Earth Podcast with Dan BurgessBBC Radio 3, UnclassifiedBroken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world.Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us! Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_ About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie digs into one part of her Making Design Circular framework, the methodology that underpins everything she does. She talks about walk, and walk is short for walk, don't run. It is this idea that you don't have to do everything all at once you can take things step by step. And to support you doing that she has developed a path to sustainability, taking of all the things you could possibly do and put them into an order. By the end of this episode, you will be able to work out whether you are an acorn, seedling, sapling, tree or a forest, and take away at least one action you can do this week to help you move towards the next stage. Here are some highlights:One step at a time“There's 100 different ways to become more sustainable. But what I've done is interviewed hundreds of designers and makers and craftspeople at different stages of their journey and tried to understand what they did when, so that I can put all of the stuff into some sort of order for you. And I think that just takes some of the overwhelm out of it. Because it enables you to take this one step at a time, it enables you to walk not to run.”Replicate what we celebrate“…recognise and celebrate how far you've come. In fact, for anybody make a list of 10 things you're already doing really well. And I think it's so important. Positive psychology shows that our brains seek to replicate what we celebrate. So yes, it's important for your well being and your just general sense of joy, but also, celebrating your success and giving yourself credit where it's due actually means you're more likely to achieve more of those things”Books mentioned:Profit First by Mike MichalowiczBroken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world.Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us!Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie talks to Tom Curran, a World Leading Expert on Perfectionism. With an eye on politics, economics, and society, he takes a cultural lens to the study of perfectionism. His work is groundbreaking and has uncovered a frightening trend of young people breaking under the strain of perfectionistic pressures. Tom brings perfectionism to life and makes it relevant and understandable to the widest audiences. He is a TED speaker and Thought Leader, a regular contributor to high-profile podcasts and has been featured in the national and international mainstream media. With the objective to put perfectionism on the map as a public health concern, Curran draws on his unique sense of wit and self-depreciation when he travels the globe speaking on the topic. During this episode, Katie and Tom discuss:How he came into the field of social and personality psychology and what that actually isHis findings from the first systems-level cohort study showing that perfectionism is on the rise in American, Canadian, and British college studentsThe damaging impacts of perfectionismThe difference between perfectionism and the pursuit of excellenceHow to navigate perfectionismHow we can tap into failure as a strengthHow can craftspeople, makers, artists, and designers contribute to a culture of imperfect progressYou can connect with Tom hereLI: @thom_curranhttps://www.thomcurran.com/Here are some highlights:Seeking approval and validation“Perfectionists are really concerned about how other people appraise them, whether they're valued and approved and loved by other people. This is a huge part of perfectionistic psychology because deep down, they believe that they're flawed, they're imperfect, that they're deficient. And in order to feel a sense of self-worth, they go about the world trying to hide those deficiencies from other people and seeking their approval and validation all times. Well, that's okay, but what tends to happen is that perfectionistic people are so scared of rejection, so scared of criticism that they can move themselves away from people and away from situations where they feel like they might be judged. That can create some social disconnection which can lead into things like loneliness and there's a lot of data to suggest that perfectionistic people experience quite a lot of loneliness and social disconnection. That's the first reason why it has an impact on mental health” Pushing past human fallibilities“Perfectionism has quite an aggressive, aggravated vulnerability built into it, and perfectionist people push themselves to the max and then some, it's this idea of, well, what doesn't kill me makes me stronger, I've got to keep pushing through the pain, I've got to keep grinding, I've got to keep going, I've got to keep my head up and keep moving forward, and that that's an unsustainable way to live. You just don't let yourself rest. You just don't let yourself recuperate. You don't give yourself permission to accept that life sometimes defeats us and that's okay, that's a part of parcel of being human being. Perfectionism is really pushing past those very human fallibilities and vulnerabilities to try and project at all times a perfect persona. But of course, that's not, that's not possible and left untreated, left unchecked, that can be quite, quite different. Exposing ourselves to failure“You just got to get comfortable with it. You know, failure is such an intimately, human experience. Look, we're going to fail way, way more than we're going to succeed. That's the first thing to remember. We're fallible, we're exhaustible creatures. I think it's such an important way to go through life acknowledging that failures of this beautiful thing that we shouldn't be afraid of, it's very humanizing. The more we put ourselves out there and the more we can expose ourselves to failure, the more comfortable we get with it. Like taking a sledgehammer to perfectionism. Just putting yourself out there and feeling the fear of doing it anyway.” Books, Podcasts and articles we mentioned:The Perfection Trap by Thom CurranOur Dangerous Obsession with Perfectionism is Getting Worse, Ted Talk with Thom CurranNassim TalebThe Infinite Game by Simon SinekDoughnut Economics by Kate RaworthListen, Liberal by Thomas FrankChatabix with comedians Joe Wilkinson and David Earl Resources for Mental Health SupportWhatever you're going through, a Samaritan will face it with you. We're here 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Visit https://www.samaritans.org/ or call 116 123 for free.Mind provides supportive and reliable information to empower you to understand your mental health and the choices available to you – take a look at https://www.mind.org.uk/ Broken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world.Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us! Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_ About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast. 

This week Katie is doing something a little different.As you may have heard her mentioned in the previous episode, her latest book, Broken: Mending and repair in a throwaway world came out in April of this year, and she will be reading you the wonderfully. Thought-provoking  introduction to give you a flavour of the book. Here are some highlights:Making a statement“Although any form of mending or repair could be seen as a form of activism in today's single use culture, many of today's artists, menders and remakers are choosing to make a statement with their work. A broken object delivers frustration because it doesn't achieve its functionality says Paulo Goldstein, on page 122. But the same principle applies to a broken system that people profiled in repair as activism are deliberately using repair to point a finger at what is broken.”Broken World Thinking“If we want new and better stories, and world orders, ones that are better for all of us, not just a tiny minority, we can't look away any longer. We need to hold the stare with what is broken, with what can be repaired or remade, and what needs to be cleaned up and let go. The act of noticing, of paying attention and asking questions enables us to hold space for two radically different realities. Realities that Jackson describes as a fractal world, a centrifugal world an almost always falling apart world on the one hand, and a world in a constant process of fixing and reinvention, reconfiguring and reassembling into new combinations and new possibilities on the other. He describes our broken world as a world of pain and possibility, creativity and destruction, innovation and the worst excesses of leftover habits and power, and suggests that the fulcrum of those two worlds is repair. The subtle acts of care by which order and meaning and complex socio technical systems are maintained and transformed. Human value is preserved and extended, and the complicated work of fitting to the varied circumstances of organisations, systems and lives is accomplished.” Broken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world. Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action. Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us! Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_ About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie talks to Minnie Moll, Chief Executive at the Design Council. Minnie spent years in innovation, design, advertising and brand consultancy. She was Managing Partner of HHCL, the ‘Advertising Agency of the decade’ and then Global Marketing Director of Innovation company? What If!, which won Great Place to Work Institute’s ‘Best Place to Work in the UK’ two years running.  Minnie was voted Vistage UK Business Leader of the Year in 2020. Always a purpose driven business leader, she has proved you can do well and do good. While Joint Chief Executive of the East of England Co-op, they won Alzheimer’s Society ‘Large Business of the Year’ in 2016. That year she was appointed by HRH Prince Charles as his Ambassador for Responsible Business in the East of England. She has passion for place making and has been a board member of two Business Improvement Districts and a Town Deals Board.  Minnie has a First-Class Degree in Creative Arts. She is also a qualified Transformational Coach. When she’s not working, Minnie can be found animal wrangling and driving her 1952 little grey Fergie tractor.  During this episode, Katie speaks to Minnie about how she came to join the Desing Council in 2021 and her involvement with their rebrand and new vision, mission and values which now fully align with ensuring environmental issues are at the heart of everything. We find out more about the 2023 Design for Planet Festival, now in its 3rd year. To find out more about the upcoming Design for Planet Festival, at which Katie with be in conversation with TOAST communications manages Madeleine Mitchell, head here: https://www.designcouncil.org.uk/our-events/design-for-planet-festival/ You can connect with Minnie and The Design Council here:The Design Council website: designcouncil.org.ukThe Design Council Twitter: https://twitter.com/designcouncilThe Design Council Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/designcouncil/The Design Council LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/design-council/Minnie Moll Twitter: https://twitter.com/minniethemollMinnie Moll LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/minnie-moll/ Here are some episode highlights:Why Design for Planet?“I think the biggest area that we've worked in (over the past 2 years) has been what I'd call, curating and convening. So a big, big focus on designers and commissioners of design. We knew that, following research, that of the 1.97 million people working in design in this country, a massive majority said, I really want to design for planet and I don't really know that I have all the right skills and tools to do so. So a lot of our focus in the last two years has been on galvanising and supporting designers. The key thing that we've done has been our Design for Planet festival, we did the first one in the in support of COP, that was held in Glasgow in 2021. And then we held the second one last year with Northumbria University. And that's been about bringing together thought leaders, really inspiring people working in design, some of them at the very cutting edge of thinking, some of them that are actually really making a difference in the organisations that they're in. So that sense of bringing in evidence, inspiration for designers, you know, we can do this.”Intelligent Collision“And I think there's also a sense of one of the one of the values of making design circular is collaboration over competition. And I think there's a sense isn't there, that the sort of apprentice style of doing business, it's all about winning because someone else is losing, whereas I think to solve this problem, we have to work together. We need scientists and techie people and strategists, but we also need designers and we need to plug design into those spaces that perhaps it hasn't always had a voice in…. And one of my favourite phrases is intelligent collision. So it’s almost, the more unlikely the partnership, probably the more dynamic it will be. And the sense of intelligent collision between architects, fashion designers, engineers, scientists, boy if there was ever a time for us to come together, and work in a collaborative way it's now.”Design can be regenerative“We are acutely aware that a regenerative world for all is a quite out there, far reaching vision, you know, that's not a five-year vision, that's it, I probably won't be here, kind of vision. But we feel so passionately that that is what we have to be shooting for. Because if you take the meaning of sustainability, sort of literally the sense of sustaining, we do not want to sustain floods, drought, catastrophic, biodiversity loss, you know, so you don't sustain that. And so this point that acknowledging that we have so depleted and so broken, some of the really important systems, we have to be looking for every opportunity where design can be regenerative” Books, podcasts and articles we mentioned:The Infinite Game by Simon SinekMaterial Matters Podcast by Grant GibsonThe Light We Carry by Michelle ObamaDolly Parton’s America PodcastTiny data centre used to heat public swimming poolBroken: Mending and repair in a throwaway worldKatie’s sixth book celebrates 25 artists, curators, menders and re-makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world. Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Making Design Circular membership: An international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople – join us! Spread the Word:Please share Making Design Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show us some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. All that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?Sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ - just click here.And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – and if you’re a designer, maker, artist or craftsperson, join me on IG @making_design_circular_ About Katie:Katie Treggiden is the founder and director of Making Design Circular – an international membership community and online learning platform for environmentally conscious designers, makers artists and craftspeople. She is also an author, journalist and podcaster championing a hopeful approach to environmentalism. With more than 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Observer, Crafts Magazine and Dezeen. She is currently exploring the question ‘Can craft save the world?’ through her sixth book, Broken: Mending & Repair in a Throwaway World (Ludion, 2023), this very podcast.

In this episode, Katie is joined by Laura Eigel PhD, the founder of The Catch Group, a leadership coaching firm accelerating women into the C-suite, and the host of the You Belong in the C-Suite podcast. Known for her direct feedback and her passion for living a life guided by her values, she has been an HR executive at Fortune 50 companies, joined the C-suite as a Chief Learning Officer, and now coaches high-achieving women to build fulfilling lives inside and outside of the boardroom. She's also a mom, wife, and true-crime podcast fan who loves indoor rowing.You can connect with Laura below:www.thecatchgroup.com (you will find her free Values worksheet in the footer of this site)LinkedIn: @lauraeigelInsta: @thecatchgroupKatie and Laura discuss,How being aligned to our values can make us be more successful in businessLaura’s six-part Values First frameworkHow to get clarity around what your values areWhy your values shouldn’t just sit on your pinboard!What a boundary is, how we set them, how we enforce them, and how they help to create businesses that are in alignment with your values when it comes to sustainability and environmentalismThe importance of uplifting others by modelling behaviours and getting the support of your communityThe red flags that might suggest the situation is not in alignment and what are some of the traps we can fall into that move us out of alignment and into conflictHow we can navigate conflict of valuesHow we can run values aligned creative practices for the long haul Here are some highlights:The six-part Values First framework“So it spells out values, and the V for Values is all about identifying your values, the A stands for Audit Time so just identifying like, what, how am I spending my time, is it aligned with my values or not? The L is for Life Boundaries and that's a really important, I think we should dig into a bit in our conversation today. And it's all about how you create, you know, systems and routines that align with your values in any way, and the U is for Uplifting Others and that's the idea of modelling it other for others, right to create those cultures. And E is for Experiencing Conflict, so it's not going to be, you know, if it's when we experience conflict, and I find that it's a lot of internal conflict, not just external conflict. And so how do you navigate through your values, and there's some ways to do that. And then S is for Sustaining Values and this idea that it's an ongoing journey, and you're never really done, it's always about what and how to dig in to what matters most to you now, and that next time in your life.”  Boundaries are not about other people, they are about you! “When I ask people, “What do you think a boundary is?” generally people say, it's kind of a wall or restriction or a guideline or a hard line. I really like to think of it in a different way. And so if you think about your values, you have that in the centre. And then I think about like holding my values in my hand, and your boundaries are your hands. And it kind of creates care for your values. And that's really what I want you to do with boundaries, I want you to create care for yourself, for what's important. And so that can look like a lot of different things. That could look like who you work with, it could look like how you make decisions, it could be how you spend your time, right. And so as a business owner, it could be all of those things, it could be none of those things, it could be a mindset, it could be the story that you tell yourself.“ A decision doesn't have to be a lifetime one, it's okay to do things in a different way“I used to like to do this, but I don't like do it anymore. We don't have to, once we do something, once we make a decision, we do not have to say it and do it forever. And so that's another kind of knowing, sometimes it's your body, sometimes it's just like procrastination, sometimes it's something else. But I think we do a lot of things for lots of different causes that might mean giving time or money or both, or whatever it is. And a decision doesn't have to be a lifetime one. And it's okay to do things in a different way. And so I think one of the things that we can do is to think about, if we feel like I'm not super excited about this thing I used to be really excited about, like, why is that? And to kind of dig into that. I think that's a big thing for business too. Right? So just because you did it this way in the past, do you have to do it in the future?” Books & Podcasts we mentioned:Values First by Laura EigelThe Waymakers by Tara Jaye FrankCrime Junkie Spread the Word:Please share Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show me some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. I’ll be honest, I don’t really understand how it works, but apparently, all that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?And finally, sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ landing gently in inboxes most Fridays - just click here. And find me on the Interwebs: @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram), @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube). If you’re a designer-maker, DM me a ♻️ to be added to my close friends group especially for sustainable craftspeople and check out Making Design Circular at www.katietreggiden.com/membership About Katie:Katie Treggiden is a purpose-driven journalist, author, podcaster and keynote speaker championing a circular approach to design – because Planet Earth needs better stories. With 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, Crafts Magazine, Design Milk and Monocle24. She is currently exploring the question ‘can craft save the world?’ through an emerging body of work that includes her fifth book, Wasted: When Trash Becomes Treasure (Ludion, 2020), and this podcast. About our partners:Inhabit hotels, located in the Bayswater area of London, offer restorative environmentally and socially conscious places to stay in the city. Wellness and well-being also play a major part in the brand's ethos Mindfully designed for the modern traveller, everything at this new hotel has been considered with a genuine commitment to environmental initiatives and meaningful community partnerships. To find out more please check out our Instagram @inhabit_hotels.Surfers Against Sewage is a grassroots environmental charity that campaigns to protect the ocean and everything that the ocean makes possible. They campaign against everything that threatens the ocean; plastic pollution, the climate emergency, industrial exploitation, and water quality, by taking action on the ground, that triggers change from the top. If like me, you'd like to support surfers against sewage, head over to https://www.sas.org.uk/

In this episode, Katie talks about Define, another element of the Making Design Circular framework, this is all about working out your niche, your unique contribution to environmentalism, and letting go of the idea that you have to save the planet single-handedly.  Here are some highlights:The Starfish Story“…this particular story is about a little girl who is walking on the beach, and there's been a big storm. And lots and lots of starfish have been thrown up onto the beach after this storm, and they're starting to dry out in the sun. So there is a danger that these 1000s and 1000s of starfish are all going to die. And the little girl is picking up the starfish one by one and throwing them into the ocean. And an old man asked the little girl what she's doing and says, ‘Well, you know, you can't possibly make a difference, look at all these starfish, there's no way you can throw all these starfish back into the ocean, what you're doing is pointless.’ And the little girl picks up another starfish and throws it back into the sea and says ‘well, it made a difference to that one.’ And I think that is the point, right? We don't have to save the planet but if we pick a tiny area of focus, if we find our starfish, we can make a huge impact.” Doing less will have a bigger impact“The idea that by offering less, you'll actually have more business success is counterintuitive, and yet absolutely correct. If you tried to be all things to all people, you're much less likely to attract a loyal band of customers. Whereas if you really focus on a very niche product, you'll have much more success, because those customers that are right for you will really be attracted to what you're doing. And that requires bravery because it's counterintuitive, because it requires you to turn down business. But I think when you when you apply that to sustainability requires even more bravery. Because not only have you got to believe that this approach is going to make for a successful business, you've also got to believe that the people around you are going to pick up all the other stuff” The Sweet Spot“…this idea of finding the sweet spot between the things you love the things you're good at, the things the planet needs, and the things you can make money from doing, that you can support yourself and your creative business from doing. And I think that's really powerful, and really important, because this is going to be the work of your lifetime, I hope. And so it's really important that it fills your cup, and that it nurtures and nourishes you, it's really important that it plays to your strengths, so that you can have a sort of disproportional impactby doing this thing because it's stuff you're better at than other people might be. And stuff that you're better at than other stuff you might try to do. It's something that will enable you to have a financially sustainable business as well as an environmentally sustainable business. And it's also stuff that world needs, right that that is important to the environmental movement.” Books Katie mentioned:The Star Thrower by Loren EiseleyValues First by Laura Eigel Cultivating Hope, 3 part mini course: Are you ready to cultivate hope in the face of the climate crisis? Sign up to Katie’s three-part free mini course that will help you move through feelings of helplessness, reconnect with nature and take aligned action.Find out more about The Seed, Katie’s online course to help you Identify your unique contribution to environmentalism – either as a self-paced course or live digital course running in May 2023.Broken: Mending and repair in a throwaway world, This new book celebrates 25 artists, curators, designers and makers who have rejected the allure of the fast, disposable and easy in favour of the patina of use, the stories of age and the longevity of care and repair. Accompanying these profiles, six in-depth essays explore the societal, cultural and environmental roles of mending in a throwaway world. Spread the Word:Please share Circular with Katie Treggiden with wild abandon — with your friends, family, and fellow designer-makers or wherever interesting conversations about creativity happen in your world! If you love what you’re listening to, show me some love by following Circular with Katie Treggiden in this app and leaving a review. I’ll be honest, I don’t really understand how it works, but apparently, all that good stuff tells the ‘algorithm Gods’ to show the podcast to more people, and that can only be a good thing, right?And finally, sign up for our my e-newsletter ‘Weekly(ish) Musings for Curious, Imperfect and Stubbornly Optimistic Environmentalists’ landing gently in inboxes most Fridays - just click here. And find me on the Interwebs:  @katietreggiden (Twitter, TikTok), & @katietreggiden3908 (YouTube) & @katietreggiden.1 (Instagram) – if you’re a designer-maker, DM me a♻️ to be added to my close friends group especially for sustainable craftspeople and check out Making Design Circular at www.katietreggiden.com/membership About Katie:Katie Treggiden is a purpose-driven journalist, author, podcaster and keynote speaker championing a circular approach to design – because Planet Earth needs better stories. With 20 years' experience in the creative industries, she regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, Crafts Magazine, Design Milk and Monocle24. She is currently exploring the question ‘can craft save the world?’ through an emerging body of work that includes her fifth book, Wasted: When Trash Becomes Treasure (Ludion, 2020), and this podcast. About our partners:Inhabit hotels, located in the Bayswater area of London, offer restorative environmentally and socially conscious places to stay in the city. Wellness and well-being also play a major part in the brand's ethos Mindfully designed for the modern traveller, everything at this new hotel has been considered with a genuine commitment to environmental initiatives and meaningful community partnerships. To find out more please check out our Instagram @inhabit_hotels.Surfers Against Sewage is a grassroots environmental charity that campaigns to protect the ocean and everything that the ocean makes possible. They campaign against everything that threatens the ocean; plastic pollution, the climate emergency, industrial exploitation, and water quality, by taking action on the ground, that triggers change from the top. If like me, you'd like to support surfers against sewage, head over to https://www.sas.org.uk/