Mike Trigg and Sanjay Ayer – The Discipline of Getting Better at WCM (EP.467)

Mike Trigg and Sanjay Ayer are Portfolio Managers at WCM Investment Management, a $120 billion investor in growth stocks, where Mike also serves as Co-CEO. I've had the opportunity to chronicle the growth of WCM over the years in conversations with Paul Black, Mike, Sanjay, and other members of the team. Paul first joined the show in 2018 when WCM managed $25 billion, and Mike last appeared four years ago with Paul, describing a piece they had just written entitled How to Build a $100 billion Money Manager. That podcast marked a near-term peak in assets for the firm and subsequently offered a great case study in humility, adaptation, and evolution. In this conversation, we unpack how WCM navigated its most difficult stretch of performance in a long time – what they learned from it, and how they came out stronger on the other side. Mike and Sanjay discuss changes to their investment process, like putting the trajectory back in moat trajectory and searching for the cult in culture, retooling the research funnel, integrating AI as a research partner, and expanding into private markets. As always with WCM, a common thread throughout our discussion is doubling down on the firm's core values to think different, get better, and serve others. From our sponsor, Morningstar Embrace the global language of investment data Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

Paul Black and Mike Trigg from WCM Investment Management are both past guests on the show who have taken an investment philosophy focused on culture and moat trajectory to turn a once struggling boutique into a $100 billion powerhouse. Paul came on the show a few years ago when WCM had quietly grown to $25 billion in assets, and Mike joined a year ago to dive into their research process. Their colleague Mike Tian shared another perspective earlier this year when he described applying WCM's moat trajectory discipline to investing in China. In this continued exploration of WCM, we start with the truly unique facts about the firm's rebirth a decade ago and turn to key features of its success, including embracing change, the importance of culture - alongside some characteristics of toxic cultures, hiring practices, telling the truth, integrating new team members, managing turnover, and transitioning leadership to the next generation. Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

Paul Black is Co-CEO and portfolio manager at WCM Investment Management, a $26 billion manager of global equities that he joined when it was a $200 million boutique in 1989.  With so much of the institutional world, including my own training, focused on value investing, I was pleasantly surprised to learn about a large, high performing growth stock manager located in a non-descript building in Laguna Beach, California. Our conversation starts with Paul's trial-by-fire entry into the business and turns to growth stock investing, including defining a great growth company, searching for widening moats, assessing a culture tied to competitive advantage, creating a positive culture, learning from mistakes, identifying tailwinds, and protecting the downside. Paul embodies the principals he preaches and offers some tasty food for thought. Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership     Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

Morgan Housel is a bestselling author, partner at Collaborative Fund, and Board member of Markel. Morgan's work focuses on the intersection of human behavior and financial decision making. His first book, The Psychology of Money, has sold 10 million copies since releasing five years ago and is already one of the best-selling investment books of all time. His second, Same as Ever, explores human behaviors that never change, and is rapidly approaching 1 million copies sold. Our conversation discusses Morgan's latest work, The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life. I wanted to get him back on the show to share his thoughts on a subject that affects us all. But I wasn't expecting to have my mind turning on how Morgan's insights about envy, aspiration, and contentment also apply to the assessment of money managers and corporate executives. His recently released book is another tour de force, and I suspect, once again, will soon hit the best seller list. From our sponsor, Morningstar Embrace the global language of investment data Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

Morgan Housel is a partner at Collaborative Fund, blogger about behavior and money, and author of The Psychology of Money. The book has sold 4.5 million copies since its release three and a half years ago and already ranks in the top five best-selling books about finance. Morgan recently published his second book, Same As Ever: A Guide to What Never Changes. Our conversation starts with what happened since his last appearance on the show just before the release of The Psychology of Money. We then turn to his latest magnum opus and discuss some of its themes and stories across storytelling, expectations, compounding, risk, incentives, and people. Morgan's wisdom, humility, and passion for his work come out in spades. He also happens to be a wonderful person and dear friend. Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

Morgan Housel is a partner at Collaborative Fund and one of my favorite writers about investing. Morgan recently released his first book, The Psychology of Money, and I'll go on record and predict it will be a best-seller in short order. Our conversation starts with Morgan's non-traditional education, his path to writing, and his process for writing each week. We then turn to the book and discuss some anecdotes about luck and risk, greed, compounding, patience, and tail events. We close with two of Morgan's personal stories – one about his own investing and the other, which seems inconceivable as you listen, about his lifelong challenge with stuttering.   Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

John Graham is the President and CEO of Canadian Pension Plan Investment Board, or CPPIB, which oversees $730 billion Canadian ($530 billion USD) making it the 7th largest pension fund in the world. Geoffrey Rubin, Chief Investment Strategist at CPPIB, was a past guest on the show describing the Canadian model and that conversation replayed a few weeks ago as part of our CIO Greatest Hits Summer Series. Our conversation picks up from my conversation with Geoffrey, discussing the evolution of the Canadian model, buzz about Total Portfolio Approach, onset of global competition, and its impact. We discuss John's leadership approach to leverage the benefits of CPPIB's size alongside the challenges of doing so across the internal team, external partnerships, global offices, and governance structure. From our sponsor, Morningstar Embrace the global language of investment data Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

The movement of private wealth allocations to alternatives is one of the biggest questions impacting the future of private markets. Our Private Wealth miniseries shared perspectives from allocators and managers on the space. Since then, an Executive Order opened the door for 401(k) plans to adopt alternatives. I wrote, in a recent Musings for our Premium members, that private market allocations in retirement plans may be a big deal down the road, but there's no need to worry about a flood of capital hitting the private markets any time soon. To understand why, I asked Eric Mogelof to come back on the podcast and explain how capital flows in the retirement markets.  Eric is the head of Global Client Solutions at KKR and joined me on the Private Wealth miniseries. In this hot take, Eric breaks down the retirement market across defined benefit, defined contribution, and IRA plans, the importance of target date funds to 401(k)s, and the decision making process required for these various structures to adopt alternatives. From our sponsor, Morningstar Embrace the global language of investment data Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

My guest on today's show is Matt Spielman, Founder and CEO of Inflection Point Partners, an executive coaching firm that works with leaders primarily in investment organizations. Matt first joined me on the show four years ago, where we discussed his path into executive coaching, inflection points in his career, and his GPS system that aligns an individual's goals and helps execute. Our conversation this time builds on that foundation with what Matt has learned since. We explore the challenges of leadership at the top, the personality dynamics that shape investment organizations, and the essential role of feedback, empathy, and appreciation in managing people. We discuss the evolution of Inflection Point from one-on-one coaching to firmwide leadership systems, and the role artificial intelligence may play in scaling his work going forward. From our sponsor, Morningstar Embrace the global language of investment data Learn More Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe to the mailing list Access Transcript with Premium Membership   Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠)

Matt Spielman is the Founder and CEO of Inflection Point Partners an executive coaching practice he launched after a twenty-year career in the financial and corporate world. Matt partners with high-performing executives and their teams in asset management, media, professional sports, and other industries, and last year was named one of the leading coaches in asset management by Institutional Investor. Our conversation covers Matt's background and path to executive coaching, inflection points in his own career, and his coaching philosophy. We then turn to frameworks for setting goals, executing on them, aligning interests across an organization, and dealing with inevitable setbacks. We close with Matt's thoughts on turnover in an asset management firms and advice for senior leaders. I should note that Matt was a classmate of mine from business school and is also my executive coach. Learn More Subscribe: Apple | Spotify | Google Follow Ted on Twitter at @tseides or LinkedIn Subscribe Monthly Mailing List Read the Transcript