From Passion Project to Corporate Casualty: The TNC Saga

Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss tell the whole story of Traffic and Conversion Summit: a marketing event that started in 2009 with 289 people and no profit, grew to thousands of attendees, and sold to Clarion Events in 2018 at the highest multiple the buyer had ever paid for an event. Then they walk through what happened after the sale: the 80 percent rollover deal, the earn out, the put and call option that paid out zero after the pandemic, and why the corporate owners could not keep the soul of an event built by marketers for marketers. Real deal structure lessons from their own exit, including how to carve off the one asset a buyer actually wants and keep everything else. 0:00 Cold open: the vision behind the best event people ever attended 0:30 Welcome, a fire alarm night, and why Traffic and Conversion Summit is officially over 3:52 2009: 289 people, no profit, and a rule against pitch fests 6:24 Year three: the event becomes a business and launches DigitalMarketer 7:54 Sponsors, production value, and no more selling from stage 12:02 Clarion Events comes calling with a global vision 14:58 The event was a product line, not a company: thin slicing the deal 17:01 Air rights and bundles of sticks: sell only what the buyer wants 19:53 Deal structure: 80 percent sold, cash plus an earn out, the goose and eggs, the put and call 24:45 Having your cake: programming control, free booth space, the only offer from stage 26:34 How it all went wrong: the pandemic, a multiple of zero, bought out for nothing 34:52 Why TNC failed: the business model changed hands Listen to Business Lunch: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZ Follow Roland Frasier: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasier Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/ Everything else: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/ Follow Ryan Deiss: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/ X: https://x.com/ryandeiss Visit: https://www.scalable.co

In This Episode Of Business Lunch: We open our consulting for equity playbook right after wrapping a real $50,000 half day consult. They walk through the exact process step by step: getting the leadership team aligned on the problem to be solved, the 1 3 1 framework, the report of findings, and how to get buy in without losing the room. If you consult, this is a process you can run tomorrow. If you own a company, it works just as well as a self consult.Chapters:0:00 A real consult opens the playbook1:00 Consulting for equity and the half day consult model2:24 The client and the four times sales goal5:21 Step one is alignment on the problem to be solved6:25 Keep doing, stop doing, start doing10:22 Value drivers and the theory of constraints17:22 The 1 3 1 framework and the report of findings22:26 Send recommendations before the meeting24:52 Leads, conversion, and the ICP trap34:18 The awareness scale and where the ads were aimed38:36 Handling pushback without attacking the person44:15 Agree, disagree and commit, or recuseListen to Business Lunch:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZFollow Roland Frasier:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasierFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/Everything else: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/Follow Ryan Deiss:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/X: https://x.com/ryandeissVisit: https://www.scalable.coMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard

In This Episode Of Business Lunch: We tackle a question every founder faces: do you build your business for cash flow now or for a big exit later, and can one company really do both? They dig into why bootstrapped owners have far more options than funded ones, how cash left sitting in a company quietly turns into bloat, and how to pay yourself regular distributions without hurting a future sale.Chapters:0:00 Cold open0:36 Welcome and where this question came from0:55 Can one business deliver both cash flow and a big exit1:57 The path VC funding locks you into3:45 Why bootstrapped owners have more flexibility9:19 How cash left in the company creates bloat11:35 The cash flow waterfall and budgeting for distributions12:34 How VC backing changes the exit itself14:06 Building reserves for refunds and emergencies16:20 Regular distributions or waiting for the big exit18:54 Wrap upListen to Business Lunch:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZConnect with Roland Frasier:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasierFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/Everything else: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/Connect with Ryan Deiss:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/X: https://x.com/ryandeissSite: https://www.scalable.co

In This Episode Of Business Lunch: A Hartford Financial study found that 75% of business owners regret selling their company. Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss have both lived it, and they get personal about what the wire does not fix: the identity you give up with the business, the buyer promises that rarely survive the close, and why more than half of sellers wind up swooping back in. Then the way out: fulfillment continuity, the threads you build before the exit so you are not adrift after it.If you have exited a business, share in the comments what surprised you most about life on the other side.Chapters:0:00 The telescope and why founders exit unhappy1:57 The Hartford study: 75% of owners regret selling4:22 Roland's identity shift after leaving law6:02 Ryan on exiting Traffic and Conversion Summit9:10 What buyers promise vs the post exit reality13:52 Why due diligence pulls the two sides apart19:46 Business partnerships are marriages: extending grace23:45 The threads that save you from being adrift27:02 Fulfillment continuity: Roland's framework32:14 Find the part of the business that fulfills you40:47 Reallocating your time as seasons change48:20 The miserable rich person trap49:04 Fire and rehire yourself every yearListen to Business Lunch: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZRoland Frasier: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasier Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/ More: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/Ryan Deiss: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/ X: https://x.com/ryandeissScalable: https://www.scalable.coMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard

Not every problem in your business is yours to fix. Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss break down how to tell a seasonal slump from a fire you actually started, why the easy and obvious moves matter most when the numbers dip, and how AI written resumes are quietly breaking hiring for small businesses. Plus the internal recruiter role they think every growing company is about to need. 0:00 Welcome back from a 30 day vacation 1:46 Why rest is actually productive work 3:20 When do you let the dumpster fire burn? 4:52 Internal vs external: what you can and cannot fix 6:00 Control what you control: lead flow and double booking 6:51 Do the easy and obvious things well 10:07 Red vs yellow metrics on the scorecard 15:46 Theory of constraints: which fire to fight first 17:47 Why small businesses aren't hiring: the AI resume problem 20:01 How to interview when AI writes every resume 25:20 The pre interview email that filters out a third of applicants 26:53 The rise of the internal recruiter Listen to Business Lunch: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/business-lunch/id1442654104 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0iWSA89TaD263zhXETdSvZ Roland Frasier: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rolandfrasier/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rolandfrasier/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rolandfrasier Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolandFrasierPage/ More: https://msha.ke/rolandfrasier/ Ryan Deiss: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryandeiss/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandeiss/ X: https://x.com/ryandeiss Scalable: https://www.scalable.co

In This Episode of Business Lunch: We explore the evolving landscape of search engine optimization (SEO) versus answer engine optimization (AEO), and how businesses can adapt their strategies to stay ahead in AI-driven search environments. They discuss practical tactics, the importance of evidence and authority, and how to leverage paid and organic channels effectively.Chapters:00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview00:17 Challenges with Technology and Setup00:30 Introduction to ChatGPT Ads and Platform Insights00:58 SEO vs AEO: What's the Difference?01:26 Understanding Search Engine Optimization and Answer Engine Optimization02:02 Should You Invest in SEO Now?02:30 Clarifying SEO, GEO, and Generative Engine Optimization03:06 How Answer Engines Are Replacing Search Engines03:42 The Shift from Rankings to Recommendations04:15 Using Search Engines for Direct Source Verification04:56 The Changing Role of Search in Customer Awareness Levels05:36 Branded Search and Its Importance06:01 The Evolving Nature of Search Optimization06:19 Optimizing for Recommendations, Not Rankings07:15 Bidding Strategies on Competitors and Trademark Terms08:40 Cost-Effective Strategies for Competing in Answer Engines10:00 Practical Approach for Business Owners11:00 From Rankings to Recommendations: New Optimization Goals12:08 The Role of Evidence and Proof in AI Recommendations13:15 Creating Credibility and Authority for Search Engines14:06 Content Strategy for AEO Success15:29 Schema and Technical SEO for AI16:29 Building the Neural Network: Assets and Relationships17:32 Practical Steps to Optimize for AI and Answer Engines18:36 Focusing on Questions, Not Keywords19:10 Gathering Evidence to Prove Authority20:39 Distribution, Freshness, and Uniqueness in Content21:26 The Importance of Original and Contrarian Content22:29 Using the Skyscraper Strategy for AI Optimization23:46 Reverse Engineering Top Sources and Cited Content25:38 Prioritizing Strategies Based on Business Needs26:09 Shifting Budgets from SEO to AEO27:05 Content and Embedded Influencers for Organic Growth28:14 Paid Search and Branded Terms for Immediate Impact29:41 Balancing Organic and Paid Strategies33:02 The Role of Authority and Evidence in AI Rankings36:34 Starting with Paid Search and Organic Content37:49 The Future of Search and Business Strategy40:13 Encouragement to Experiment and Share Results42:22 Final Thoughts and Wrap-upConnect with me on social:TikTok: Check out my TikTok HereInstagram: Check out my Instagram HereFacebook: Check out my Facebook HereLinkedIn: Check out my LinkedIn HereSubscribe to my YouTube 👉 HereResources:• 7 Steps to Scalable workbook• Get my book, Zero Down, FREEMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard

In This Episode of Business Lunch: We explore the concept of founder identity and how legacy identity debt can hinder business growth. They discuss practical strategies for recognizing and overcoming identity lag to scale effectively.Chapters:00:00 Introduction to founder identity and role evolution00:30 The five stages of role evolution in business00:58 Understanding identity lag and its effects01:28 The concept of identity debt in business02:24 Sleep debt analogy and identity debt02:51 Impact of legacy identity debt on scaling03:22 Recognizing when you're in the wrong role04:05 The importance of role clarity and job descriptions08:06 How to get consciously competent and fix identity debt09:44 Defining your current role and responsibilities10:14 Using time studies to identify role mismatches11:52 Addressing comfort work and role reversion12:24 Resetting roles and accountability with team members13:19 The importance of honest communication and ownership14:38 Handling time constraints and delegation16:29 Hiring the right roles and using AI tools17:12 Recognizing and overcoming identity debt in business17:43 Summary: Overcoming insidious identity debtConnect with me on social:TikTok: Check out my TikTok HereInstagram: Check out my Instagram HereFacebook: Check out my Facebook HereLinkedIn: Check out my LinkedIn HereSubscribe to my YouTube 👉 HereResources:• 7 Steps to Scalable workbook• Get my book, Zero Down, FREEMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard

In This Episode of Business Lunch: This episode explores the myth of hiring A players, the concept of micro CEOs, and how to structure teams for maximum agility and profitability in the AI era. Ryan Deiss and Roland Frasier discuss the pitfalls of traditional hiring and the advantages of outcome-based roles.Chapters:00:00 The A-Player Debate02:52 Hiring Owners vs. A-Players05:57 Understanding Micro CEOs08:51 The Role of Metrics in Hiring11:58 Compensation Structures for Micro Owners14:55 The Future of Leadership in BusinessConnect with me on social:TikTok: Check out my TikTok HereInstagram: Check out my Instagram HereFacebook: Check out my Facebook HereLinkedIn: Check out my LinkedIn HereSubscribe to my YouTube 👉 HereResources:• 7 Steps to Scalable workbook• Get my book, Zero Down, FREEMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard

In This Episode of Business Lunch: We explore the latest in AI tools, how they're using them for content creation, research, and business automation, and share practical tips for integrating AI into your workflow.Chapters:00:00 Navigating Parenthood and Business Challenges02:59 Leveraging AI for Content Creation05:57 Exploring AI Tools and Their Applications08:51 Choosing the Right AI Tools for Your Needs11:54 Integrating AI with Personal Knowledge Management14:53 The Role of Obsidian in AI Workflows21:30 The Role of AI in Coding and Management22:52 Understanding Client Needs and AI Utilization24:41 Navigating AI Tools: Productivity vs. Complexity26:35 Exploring AI Platforms and Their Unique Features28:30 Researching with AI: Tools and Preferences30:53 The Future of AI Content Creation32:45 Personalizing AI Interactions for Better Outcomes39:14 The Importance of Human Touch in AI-Driven Content42:20 AI as an Essential Tool for Business LeadersConnect with me on social:TikTok: Check out my TikTok HereInstagram: Check out my Instagram HereFacebook: Check out my Facebook HereLinkedIn: Check out my LinkedIn HereSubscribe to my YouTube 👉 HereResources:• 7 Steps to Scalable workbook• Get my book, Zero Down, FREEMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard

In This Episode of Business Lunch: We explore how business owners can maximize their exit multiples by focusing on clarity, positioning, and structure in the final months before a sale. It challenges the instinct to chase new revenue at the last minute and emphasizes the importance of risk management, revenue segmentation, and deal structuring.Chapters:00:00 Introduction to Maximizing Exit Multiples00:28 Common instinct: Grow Sales Before Exit01:01 The Counterintuitive Reality of Final Months01:16 Value Creation vs. Value Realization02:12 Why Bigger Is Not Always Better02:39 Stage Your Business Like a House Sale03:07 Revenue Growth Can Hurt Valuation04:13 Buyers Pay for Risk, Not Just Revenue05:07 Profitability Over Vanity Metrics06:03 Segmenting Revenue Streams07:02 Risk and Multiple Application08:07 Proving Cash Flow and Profitability09:28 Bridging EBITDA to Cash Flow10:37 The Importance of Clean Financials11:05 The Dangers of Adbacks12:35 Building Trust and Eliminating Risk13:09 Working Capital and Its Hidden Dangers14:39 Defending Against Working Capital Manipulation15:40 Deal Leverage and Competitive Tension17:09 Staging Data and Buyer Competition18:37 Optimizing Deal Structure and Tax Planning20:20 Key Takeaways: Clarity, Proof, and Structure21:30 Applying These Principles to Your Career22:16 Conclusion: Fix the House, Not Just Build ItConnect with me on social:TikTok: Check out my TikTok HereInstagram: Check out my Instagram HereFacebook: Check out my Facebook HereLinkedIn: Check out my LinkedIn HereSubscribe to my YouTube 👉 HereResources:• 7 Steps to Scalable workbook• Get my book, Zero Down, FREEMentioned in this episode:Build Your CEO DashboardGet one report every week of the key metrics you need to know with the CEO Dashboard!CEO Dashboard