Make Money by Mastering the Right Skills: Sales, Marketing, or Operations?

MichaelAaron Flicker is founder and CEO of XenoPsi Ventures, a brand incubator that generates millions in annual revenue and celebrates four-time Inc. 5000 honors. Launching his business at 14, MichaelAaron has expanded XenoPsi into nine thriving companies—including DTC success story Wellow ($20 million in revenue, self-funded)—while also consulting for Fortune 500 clients and co-authoring Hacking the Human Mind. Flicker's work centers on applying behavioral science to marketing, growth, and brand strategy, making him a go-to advisor for high-growth businesses and political campaigns alike. On this episode we talk about:   Starting and scaling a brand incubator from a teenage side hustle to a portfolio of top-performing businesses   How behavioral science transforms marketing, product, and political campaign strategy (from “Chilean Sea Bass” to iPods)   Critical psychological biases every marketer should know (naming, concreteness, social proof)   The art/science of making products memorable and believable—why one clear message beats a laundry list of features   Applying behavioral insights ethically (and knowing when to simplify so your message lands with real customers) Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Understanding and leveraging behavioral science is key to building memorable brands and driving growth in any industry.2.  One clear, concrete message about your product will outperform complicated “lists”—clarity is persuasive and sticky.3.  Ethical marketing means matching your product’s strengths to people’s real needs, using behavioral tools to open minds rather than manipulate. Notable Quotes   “The simple words we use make a big difference—the way you describe and brand your offer is as important as the product itself.”   “If people can't picture a result, they won't remember or believe it—concreteness is four times more effective than abstraction.”   “Every business is in the persuasion business—behavioral science is the best way to understand what truly influences people.” Connect with MichaelAaron Flicker:   LinkedIn: MichaelAaron Flicker   Website: XenoPsi Ventures   Book: Hacking the Human Mind   Podcast: Behavioral Science for Brands ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jordan Harbinger is the host of The Jordan Harbinger Show, and someone I've been listening to for almost a decade now. Jordan dives into insightful conversations with world-class experts and thought leaders. Listen in for actionable advice on personal development, relationships, entrepreneurship and more. Hope you check it out and enjoy it as much as I do.

In this skills-focused episode, Travis and co-host Eric Kruczynski debate which core competency—sales, marketing, or operations—would make the biggest difference for young professionals and future entrepreneurs. With humorous banter and personal anecdotes, they lay out the case for each skill, reflect on their own career pivots, and highlight why both product-first thinking and communication are more critical than ever for making money in today’s economy. On this episode we talk about:   The pros and cons of going deep in sales, marketing, or operations as a foundational skillset   Why Travis wishes he’d doubled down on marketing after cutting his teeth in sales   The hidden importance of learning to communicate and interact with adults from a young age   Why product-led growth beats everything (Naval’s hierarchy: Product > Marketing > Sales)   Real examples: Savannah Bananas’ ESPN deal, Manscaped, CarMax, and how big brands use these skillsets to win Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Sales is indispensable for young professionals to learn communication, persuasion, and how to speak “adult”—but marketing has the highest earning upside in most modern businesses.2.  Product is king: the greatest companies invest first in world-class product, then marketing, with sales as a fallback if needed.3.  Differentiation is critical—even brands with average products (like early Manscaped) can win if marketing is exceptional, but nothing replaces a truly great offering. Notable Quotes   “Sales is learning to speak the language of adults and persuasion; marketing is sales at scale.”   “Sales is what you do when you’ve failed at marketing; marketing is what you do when you’ve failed at product. Product is king.” (paraphrasing Naval)   “Build something so good that people can’t help talking about it—organic always beats paid.” Connect with Travis Chappell:   LinkedIn: Travis Chappell on LinkedIn   Twitter/X: @travischappell   Instagram: @travischappell   Website: travischappell.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Shannah Game is not your typical money person—she's a certified financial planner, financial trauma specialist, podcast host, and author of Unraveling Your Relationship With Money. With a unique blend of creative and financial expertise, Shannah has built a career helping women (and men!) reframe their beliefs about money, midlife, and reinvention. Eschewing the stiff suits and tired advice, Shannah is known for her real talk: tackling financial trauma, midlife pivots, and the emotions underlying all our money decisions. On this episode we talk about:   Shannah’s journey from lemonade stands and arts management to financial planning, media, and bestseller lists   How financial beliefs, not just numbers, keep people stuck (and why budgets alone don’t work)   Overcoming scarcity thinking in today’s economy, especially for millennials, Gen Z, and women   Learning to prioritize spending on what really matters—without shame, guilt, or comparison   The actual emotional and behavioral tools to heal money trauma and finally build wealth on your own terms Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Money is never just math—it’s a mix of early beliefs, emotions, and behaviors we can rewrite at any stage in life.2.  Focusing on what you control (mindset, habits, priorities), not what’s out of reach, is key to overcoming financial frustration in an uncertain economy.3.  Your path to financial peace starts by becoming unapologetic about what really matters to you and letting go of status games and outside expectations. Notable Quotes   “Money isn’t just about money—real change means understanding your emotional relationship with it, not just the math.”   “If you can get self-aware in your twenties and say no to what doesn’t matter, you’ll thank yourself for decades to come.”   “What we present on the outside is never the full story—many people with the coolest cars and nicest watches are a financial mess underneath.” Connect with Shannah Game: Instagram: @shannahgame Website: heyshannah.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Travis and producer Eric dive into the uncomfortable but crucial world of pricing your services and mastering sales. They discuss real strategies, share personal struggles, and break down Alex Hormozi’s now-famous “closed rate pricing gauge cheat sheet.” Whether you’re a freelancer, agency owner, or business leader, you’ll learn how to stop undercharging for your work, confidently sell your value, and turn price conversations from awkward to awesome. On this episode we talk about:   How to use close rates to determine if your prices are too low (or too high)   Overcoming anxiety around sales and setting prices for friends, family, and clients   Writing scripts and using prep tools (like ChatGPT) to gain confidence before making offers   Sales conversation frameworks—discovery, demo, value-building, and closing   Actionable advice for firing low-value clients, upselling, and navigating new price points Top 3 Takeaways 1.  If your close rate is above 60–80%, you’re probably undercharging; double or triple your prices and focus on building real value for the right clients.2.  Good sales is about diagnosing problems and becoming a trusted advisor—not just pitching; scripts, discovery, and prep are your friends.3.  Retention is easier than acquisition, but honesty and transparency are key when raising prices or letting legacy clients go. Notable Quotes   “If you can describe the problem better than they can, people will assume you have the solution.”   “Most people aren’t paying for a deal—they’re paying for results from someone they trust to deliver.”   “You’re either selling stuff or building stuff. Everything else is noise.” Connect with Travis Chappell:   LinkedIn: Travis Chappell on LinkedIn   Twitter/X: @travischappell   Instagram: @travischappell   Website: travischappell.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Guttman is a serial entrepreneur, three-time Inc. 500 executive, and business strategist with more than 30 years’ experience building, scaling, and exiting multiple eight- and nine-figure companies. He’s bought and sold 15 businesses, raised over $25 million, and holds degrees from Brown and Wharton—but as he reveals in this episode, Guttman's most powerful business lessons have all come from hands-on experience, not classrooms. Joined by Anna, a first-time founder going through his new "Anti-MBA" program, David shows how anyone can launch, scale, and exit a real business—no fancy degree or pedigree required. On this episode we talk about:   The difference between academic knowledge and real-world business competence (and why David tore up his Wharton MBA diploma)   How Guttman’s new “Anti-MBA” course powers hands-on learning for first-time founders—including an 18-year-old launching a tech-savvy poster company   The secrets of buying, scaling, and selling businesses across 40+ industries, including key lessons from epic failures and wins   How to build winning businesses: bottoms-up budgeting, asking the right questions, and synthesizing knowledge from every team member   Networking, mentorship, and why podcasting is still the “single best tool for building relationships” in the modern era Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Building and scaling companies is about learning by doing, asking questions, testing assumptions, and embracing mistakes—not degrees or credentials.2.  All business victories (and most big lessons) come from execution, pattern recognition, honesty, and the ability to synthesize data and team insights.3.  Owners should treat employees as true owners—make everyone a shareholder, drive open-book management, and prioritize real relationships for long-term wins. Notable Quotes   "I didn't learn anything particularly useful in the classroom. I learned by doing."   "If you wouldn't do the deal on a handshake, don't do the deal—even if contracts look great."   "Podcasting is hands down the single best networking tool ever invented—by galaxies." Connect with David Guttman: https://www.guttmanmedia.com/ ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this Q&A episode, Travis and producer Eric break down the true value—and actual dollar ROI—of spending big on conferences, masterminds, and in-person networking events. Travis pulls back the curtain on years of personal investment, revealing why choosing the right room can shortcut years of growth for entrepreneurs and creators. The episode answers tough listener questions about wasted money, picking events, and how to “level up” your network strategically instead of just collecting business cards. On this episode we talk about:   Why Travis has spent six figures annually to get access to high-caliber business rooms   The difference between ROI in cheap conferences vs. elite mastermind groups   How and why real business growth happens outside of structured sessions—often at after-hours meetups   The “ping pong effect”—why you need to challenge yourself by surrounding yourself with people at much higher levels   The most common mistake (and how to avoid wasting your investment by focusing solely on content over relationships) Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Face-to-face conferences and masterminds often provide the best ROI—companies report a 4:1 to 5:1 return according to 2025 industry data, and new business from events still outpaces digital alone.2.  Growth happens fastest when you pay to be uncomfortable and seek out rooms where you’re not the expert—proximity to big thinkers shortcuts years of solo effort.3.  The best value comes when you prioritize genuine relationships over just knowledge—one high-value contact can outweigh years’ worth of conference notes. Notable Quotes   "When you pay, you pay attention. Money is an amazing accountability partner—if you stretch to get in the right room, you make the most of it."   "All the best business happens after hours, in the relationships and informal meetups that develop outside the official event schedule."   "If you can't find a conference that fits, be the host—creating the community gives you leverage and attracts the best connections." Connect with Travis Chappell:   LinkedIn: Travis Chappell on LinkedIn   Twitter/X: @travischappell   Instagram: @travischappell   Website: travischappell.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Srividya Jandhyala is a renowned professor of management at ESSEC Business School specializing in global strategy, international business, and geopolitics. The author of "The Great Disruption: How Geopolitics is Changing Companies, Managers, and Work" (Cambridge University Press, 2025), Srividya’s research has garnered multiple awards and appears in top-tier journals. She is recognized for her ability to distill complex geopolitical shifts into clear, actionable insights for executives and entrepreneurs navigating today’s volatile economic landscape. On this episode we talk about:   How global strategy and international business fundamentals are shifting in response to renewed geopolitical volatility   The business risks—and unexpected opportunities—arising from trade wars, sanctions, and national security regulations   Real-world case studies showing how leading companies are adapting to geopolitical shocks in 2025   Why managers and entrepreneurs need to understand geopolitics to make smarter investment, partnership, and growth decisions   How to cultivate resilience and agility amid unpredictable global business trends Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Geopolitical change is now a primary factor in business risk and opportunity—understanding new rules is crucial for survival and growth.2.  Companies must actively adapt strategy, supply chains, and partnerships as nations prioritize security and sovereignty over open markets.3.  Leaders who stay informed and agile—using data, networks, and scenario planning—can turn global disruptions into competitive advantage. Notable Quotes   "A great disruption is underway. Geopolitics is reshaping international business, and managers must navigate a new and changing world."   "There’s no going back to the pre-2020 ‘rules’—today, structural shifts call for new levels of creativity and resilience."   "Firms that understand both market and non-market forces will seize the best opportunities amidst uncertainty." Connect with Srividya Jandhyala:   Personal Website: s-jandhyala.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode features Travis and producer Eric tackling one of the biggest, most uncomfortable truths about financial success: most people will never build real wealth—and the core reason isn’t luck or the White House, but mindset. Drawing on decades of interviews with self-made success stories, Travis explains why belief in possibility—coupled with intentional action and environment—unlocks opportunities that most people never realize exist. The episode offers a wake-up call for anyone stuck in the “doom loop” of financial frustration and outlines specific, practical steps to break free and design a new future. On this episode we talk about:   Why most Americans will never build wealth (and what the data says about the top 10% vs. everyone else)   The single biggest mental barrier keeping people stuck in financial ruts—belief in what's possible for themselves   How environment, relationships, and content shape financial results (and how to intentionally re-engineer them)   Actionable frameworks for moving beyond circumstances, including the “inputs and outputs” model Travis uses with top performers   Practical advice for dealing with setbacks, self-doubt, and excuses in the wealth-building journey Top 3 Takeaways 1.  Wealth building starts with changing belief—if you don’t believe it’s possible, you’ll never take the sustained action required to succeed.2.  Intentional shifts in environment, daily influences, and relationships are critical for breaking generational or circumstantial cycles of financial struggle.3.  Personal responsibility, not circumstances or politics, is the lever that brings change—everyone has the power to design an environment that shapes who they become. Notable Quotes   "You are now 100% a result of your choices, not a result of the environment that you grew up in."   "Nobody is going to come save you. You have the agency and responsibility to put things in motion to change your life."   "It’s easier to take the action you need if everyone around you is doing the same thing—your environment is your secret weapon." Connect with Travis Chappell:   LinkedIn: Travis Chappell on LinkedIn   Twitter/X: @travischappell   Instagram: @travischappell   Website: travischappell.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Josh Pais, actor and founder of Committed Impulse, has starred in 150+ movies and shows (Ray Donovan, Joker, TMNT) but is just as known for his game-changing work teaching creativity, presence, and resilience. Drawing from the worlds of acting, science, and entrepreneurship, Josh helps professionals harness anxiety and fear—not fight it—unlocking deeper authenticity, energy, and real business results. His new book, Lose Your Mind, reveals the step-by-step process for transforming internal resistance into creative fuel in both art and enterprise. Josh’s unique upbringing: a mother who was a painter-poet, a father who was a physicist who worked with Einstein—blending creativity and science into his philosophy and approach. The Committed Impulse method: Presence-based, body-centric acting technique that has empowered Oscar-winning actors, Navy SEALs, Fortune 100 execs, entrepreneurs, and professionals to break free of “tyranny of overthinking” and use anxiety as a source of power. Core lesson: Emotions like anxiety, nervousness, fear are neither good nor bad—they are energetic phenomena, and feeling them fully (rather than suppressing) creates truth, spontaneity, and engagement. Why authenticity is business’s secret weapon: When professionals (lawyers, doctors, salespeople) connect from genuine experience—rather than perform from a “safe” autopilot—audiences respond, and careers flourish. “Lose Your Mind”: New book offering practical tools and meditations to shift internal energy, supporting creative invincibility for anyone with high-stakes communication needs. Experiencing—not avoiding—fear and anxiety is how world-class creatives, executives, and entrepreneurs achieve breakthrough results. Suppressing emotions is energetically and physically costly; creativity, health, and business engagement all flourish when energy is allowed to flow. The most compelling entrepreneurs, speakers, and leaders show up with their real physical and emotional truth—being present, not perfect, books deals and drives success in today’s market. “What people perceive as nervousness is just creative fuel—once I learned to feel every feeling fully, booking jobs and success became effortless”. “The best presenters and actors allow the charge in their bodies—authenticity is speaking from your truth and letting energy move”. “Committed Impulse gives you access to your creative ‘atomic’ truth—it’s how you build trust, connect, and sell in business as well as art”. Committed Impulse: committedimpulse.com ✖️✖️✖️✖️ 🚀 Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency. 🚀 Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform. 🎁 Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices