INTERVIEW | Make Money by Rethinking Leadership, Turning Rejection Into Results, and Building Better Teams with Larry Coval

In this episode of the Travis Makes Money Podcast, Travis and producer Eric break down Crumbl Cookies’ reported sales decline and what entrepreneurs can learn from a brand that once rode the post-pandemic boom. They discuss the company’s oversized, indulgent products, controversial marketing decisions, and the influence of health-focused creators calling out popular food brands. Along the way, Travis and Eric debate where criticism crosses the line into unfairly targeting business owners, why companies need to listen to customers, and how product quality and value ultimately shape a brand’s future. On this episode we talk about: Crumbl Cookies’ reported sales decline, store closures, leadership changes, and attempts to revive the business with new products. How oversized cookies, high-calorie milkshakes, and sugar-heavy drinks can create backlash when customers question whether the indulgence is worth it. The influencer offering people money not to buy Crumbl Cookies and the debate over whether this kind of content holds brands accountable or unfairly targets businesses. Why entrepreneurs should distinguish between legitimate criticism of their products and online attention designed primarily to generate views. How brands can respond to changing consumer expectations by improving their products instead of relying solely on marketing and social media presence. Top 3 Takeaways A strong brand cannot compensate for a product customers don't love. Travis argues that Crumbl’s challenges may have more to do with the product itself than any single influencer. If customers don't enjoy the experience enough to come back, a massive online presence won't necessarily save the business. Pay attention to what customers are telling you. When sales fall and negative feedback grows, entrepreneurs need to evaluate their products honestly. That might mean reconsidering portion sizes, ingredients, pricing, or the overall customer experience rather than simply launching another trendy offering. Consider the long-term impact of how you compete. Travis and Eric debate whether publicly discouraging customers from supporting a business is fair criticism or excessive targeting. Their conversation highlights the tension between consumer advocacy, content creation, and the hard work required to build a company. Notable Quotes “You want something if you're gonna eat something bad for you, it better be something you love.” “I feel for business owners who are trying to build businesses and do cool stuff.” “If the product is not doing well, that's what I'm not—” (Travis's thought is interrupted in the conversation; the central point is that businesses should examine the product itself.) Connect with Travis Chappell: Instagram: @travischappell  Other: travischappell.com A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Larry Coval is a veteran technology and telecommunications executive who spent nearly four decades leading sales organizations, business units, and billion-dollar operations at companies including AT&T, Telligent Telecom, Epoch Internet, Global Crossing, and Cox Business. Throughout his career, he turned around underperforming teams, drove business growth, and helped develop future executives. Now, he's sharing the lessons he learned from both his successes and failures in his book, Misled: Why Almost Everything You Learn About Leadership Is Wrong and How to Fix It. In this episode, Larry explains why effective leadership requires more than emotional intelligence, how door-to-door sales shaped his approach to business, and why developing practical skills, embracing feedback, and helping employees succeed are essential to becoming a great leader. On this episode we talk about: How Larry went from an uncertain college graduate to a nearly 40-year career in technology and telecommunications leadership. Why combining complementary skills, understanding your strengths, and being honest about your weaknesses can help you stand out professionally. How door-to-door sales taught Larry to handle rejection, improve through repetition, and help teams push through challenges. Why Larry believes leadership development has focused too heavily on emotional traits instead of the practical skills employees need from their managers. How employee-centered leadership, accountability, and actionable feedback can build stronger teams and create a lasting organizational legacy. Top 3 Takeaways Treat rejection as practice, not failure. Every “no” is an opportunity to learn, refine your approach, and get closer to a “yes.” Larry even rewarded salespeople for the number of rejections they worked through, turning a frustrating part of the job into a motivating challenge. Great leaders need competence, not just good intentions. Empathy and vulnerability matter, but employees also need managers who can teach them, solve problems, provide direction, and help them perform better. Leadership is a set of skills that can be developed with deliberate effort. Build a legacy by developing people. Business results matter, but Larry believes one of the most meaningful measures of leadership is the people you help grow. Investing in employees' careers and modeling effective leadership can create a lasting impact on an organization's culture. Notable Quotes “I'm going to take no as not yet or not now.” “And reps help you get better at stuff.” “If you ask me about the people that I was able to help grow, I can list them, you know, chapter and verse.” Connect with Larry Coval: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larry-coval/ Website: https://arcaneleadership.com/ Other: Look for Larry's book, Misled: Why Almost Everything You Learn About Leadership Is Wrong and How to Fix It. A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final segment of this three-part episode, Travis and producer Eric explore the changing ways people socialize, build relationships, and spend their free time. From the decline in alcohol consumption among younger generations to the growing appeal of in-person gatherings, they discuss how the pandemic, remote work, and digital entertainment have reshaped social habits. They also explore business opportunities in creating real-world experiences, from hobby-based communities and social clubs to large recreational spaces, and why meaningful human connection may be more important than ever. On this episode we talk about: How entrepreneurs can build communities around shared interests, hobbies, and experiences, taking inspiration from events like Pokémon card openings and run clubs. Why in-person experiences and gathering spaces could become major business opportunities as people look for reasons to get out of the house. Jon Taffer's perspective on declining alcohol consumption among younger generations and how the pandemic disrupted traditional social habits. How remote work, streaming, food delivery, and at-home entertainment can contribute to social isolation and fewer opportunities to make friends. Why prioritizing human connection and relationships matters, even when some traditional ways of socializing come with health risks. Top 3 Takeaways Build businesses around shared experiences. Communities centered on hobbies, activities, and common interests can bring people together while creating opportunities for events, memberships, and physical gathering spaces. Look beyond the surface of changing consumer habits. Declining alcohol consumption doesn't necessarily mean younger generations are healthier or more socially connected. Understanding the reasons behind a trend can reveal the bigger picture and potential business opportunities. Make meaningful human connection a priority. Digital entertainment and the convenience of staying home can make isolation easy. Intentionally spending time with others, joining communities, and building relationships can improve the quality of your life. Notable Quotes "There's gonna be a big resurgence of trying to do things where people actually get out of their house and talk to people." "Social interaction is so important to us as a species." "Remember to leave every relationship better than you found it." Connect with Travis Chappell: Instagram: @travischappell Other: travischappell.com A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gerry Rich is a veteran Hollywood marketing executive who has helped bring some of the film industry's most memorable movies to audiences. Named one of America's top 100 marketers by Ad Age, Gerry has held marketing leadership roles at Columbia Pictures, Miramax, Paramount Pictures, MGM, and United Artists, and has consulted for Universal. Throughout his decades-long career, he's worked on films including The Crying Game, Reservoir Dogs, GoldenEye, War of the Worlds, and No Time to Die. In his new book, Chasing Hollywood, Gerry shares the lessons he learned building a career from humble beginnings in St. Louis to the top of Hollywood, offering insights on ambition, persistence, networking, and the evolving world of film marketing. On this episode we talk about: How Gerry turned his childhood fascination with movies and advertising into a decades-long Hollywood career. Why internships, focused career goals, and personalized outreach can help you get in the room with successful people. How working at Miramax on The Crying Game became a career-defining experience despite the company's demanding work environment. The marketing strategies behind iconic films like GoldenEye, Showgirls, and No Time to Die, including how to learn from campaigns that don't succeed. How independent filmmakers and digital creators are changing Hollywood by building audiences, testing ideas, and creating original intellectual property without traditional studio budgets. Top 3 Takeaways Be specific about what you want and put in the work. Passion alone isn't enough. Identify the career path that excites you, learn everything you can about it, and develop the skills needed to stand out. Make networking valuable for both sides. When asking successful people for advice, do your homework, personalize your outreach, and arrive with thoughtful questions. Don't expect others to map out your future for you. Treat setbacks as opportunities to learn. Not every campaign, project, or decision will work. Evaluate what happened, identify what you could improve, and make sure you've done everything possible before judging the outcome. Notable Quotes "Find the thing that you are gonna be most passionate about and figure learn everything you can about it." "The more difficult the challenge is, the more tenacious you have to be." "Originality is gonna win the day." Connect with Gerry Rich: Look for Gerry's new book, Chasing Hollywood, for his insights into the evolution of Hollywood, film marketing, and the lessons behind his career. A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Travis and producer Eric continue to dive into the growing push to unplug from screens and reconnect with real-world experiences. They discuss why younger generations may be pushing back against an increasingly digital world, the downside of endless content consumption, the difference between creating meaningful work and chasing views, and the business opportunities emerging around in-person experiences. On this episode we talk about: The growing trend of unplugging from technology and seeking more real-life experiences Why physical businesses and in-person experiences could be making a comeback The difference between creating meaningful content and chasing views through controversy and “slop” How endless digital consumption can become a distraction from the things we actually need to address Business opportunities around experiences like driving ranges, golf simulators, restaurants, and other community-focused activities Top 3 Takeaways Spend more time creating than consuming. Reading, journaling, building businesses, and engaging with people in the real world can leave a much more lasting impression than endlessly scrolling through content. Don’t chase a trend just because it looks profitable. If you want to build a business around the return to in-person experiences, start with something you genuinely care about. Long-term success is more likely when the business is connected to something you actually enjoy. Just because something gets attention doesn't mean it deserves attention. Views, followers, and engagement aren't necessarily indicators that content is useful or valuable. Ask whether what you're creating actually helps the people consuming it. Notable Quotes “If I spend more time creating than consuming, my life will probably look a little bit better.” “Just because you can sell something doesn't mean you should sell something.” “I would really encourage you to look at the things that you enjoy doing.” Connect with Travis: Instagram: @travischappell  Website: travischappell.com A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dub Washington is a funding strategist, credit expert, travel hacker, coach, and mentor who teaches entrepreneurs how to strategically leverage the credit system to build wealth and grow their businesses. After leaving his job as a shipping and receiving warehouse supervisor in 2021, Dub launched a credit-focused ebook and made $10,000 in a single day, kicking off his transition into entrepreneurship. Today, he helps clients build credit, access funding, grow coaching and funding businesses, and use financial leverage more strategically. On this episode we talk about: How Dub made his first $10,000 in a day selling a credit and travel-hacking ebook Why Dub believes credit can be one of the most powerful tools for changing your net worth How to establish financial guardrails before leveraging large amounts of credit Building relationships with banks and starting with secured cards when you have little or damaged credit Why relationships, mentorship, and community can be worth more than money Top 3 Takeaways Know your North Star before you leverage credit. Your financial strategy should be determined by where you're actually trying to go. Someone pursuing a million dollars in available credit needs a very different strategy from someone simply trying to qualify for a mortgage or auto loan. Use credit for leverage, not lifestyle inflation. Dub has seen people receive $150,000–$200,000 in business credit and immediately spend it on luxury trips, designer clothing, and expensive cars. The goal should be to use capital toward something with potential upside rather than a temporary dopamine hit. Relationships are a form of wealth. Dub emphasizes that the communities, mentors, and relationships you build can provide access to resources and opportunities that money alone can't buy. Notable Quotes “Let's leverage the system that's intended to be leveraged.” “Relationships is the new currency.” “Sometimes your blessing is to literally be a blessing into other people's lives.” Connect with Dub Washington: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dubwashington/ Other: YouTube — Dub Washington A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Travis and producer Eric take a closer look at the growing appeal of physical experiences in an increasingly digital world. They discuss the resurgence of bookstores, the value of owning physical books and keeping a journal, and why stepping away from screens can create more meaningful memories and better habits. They also explore the tension between consuming and creating, and how intentionally unplugging can help you become more present. On this episode we talk about: Why physical products and offline experiences are making a comeback The resurgence of bookstores and what the latest reading trends actually show How journaling can help you remember your life and recognize recurring patterns The benefits of using libraries, physical books, and audiobooks Why spending more time creating than consuming can lead to a better life Top 3 Takeaways Give yourself permission to be imperfect. Journaling doesn't need to be organized, aesthetically pleasing, or perfectly consistent to be useful. The value comes from capturing your thoughts and experiences so you can learn from them later. Pay attention to recurring patterns. Looking back through old journals can reveal problems, questions, and areas of your life that you've remained stuck in for years. Those patterns can point you toward what you need to address or learn more about. Create more than you consume. Constant scrolling can leave you consuming huge amounts of content without remembering much of it. Intentionally putting your phone away and prioritizing writing, reading, and real-world experiences can help you become more present and productive. Notable Quotes "The only thing that's consistent is on the top I put pages read." "It's been helpful for me to look through." "If I spend more time creating than consuming, my life will probably look a little bit better." Connect with Travis Chappell: Instagram: @travischappell  Other: travischappell.com A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Abhijit Bhaduri is a talent and learning expert who has spent more than two decades helping organizations develop people and navigate a rapidly changing world of work. As Microsoft's former global head of learning and development, he helped shape talent strategy for 230,000 employees, and he previously served as Wipro's first chief learning officer. A prolific writer and author of books including Dreamers and Unicorns and Career 3.0, Abhijit's latest book, A Identity, explores how AI is changing our work identity and what it takes to build a fulfilling career in an AI-driven world. On this episode we talk about: How Abhijit learned to make money as a teenager through radio, writing, and competitions Why having a personal "board of directors" can be more valuable than relying on a single mentor How to attract great mentors by doing your research and coming prepared with specific questions Abhijit's experience leading learning and development at Microsoft during the rise of AI Why your career needs more than money, including meaning, belonging, mastery, predictability, and status Top 3 Takeaways Build a board of mentors. Instead of relying on one person for every type of advice, develop relationships with several people who bring different expertise and perspectives to your career. Make mentorship valuable for both sides. The best mentees do their research, arrive prepared, and have a specific question or problem they want help solving. A mentor can then help reframe the problem rather than simply telling you what decision to make. Don't treat work like a vending machine. Money matters, but a fulfilling career also provides meaning, belonging, mastery, predictability, and status. Without those elements, financial success alone can still lead to burnout.Notable Quotes "I like to describe it like a board of directors." "Most of the times I look for people who come prepared for it because they get more out of it." "Work is about how you make money. Yes, that's a very important part of it, and nobody's gonna work for free. However, there are five other factors that we think about."Connect with Abhijit Bhaduri: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhijitbhaduri/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abhijitbhaduri/ Other: AIdentity — Abhijit's latest book A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Travis Makes Money Podcast, Travis and producer Eric break down the growing controversy surrounding prediction markets like Polymarket and Kalshi, including New York's lawsuit alleging that Polymarket is operating an unlicensed gambling operation. They discuss whether prediction markets are really different from traditional sports betting, how these platforms could introduce gambling to new demographics, the challenges of enforcing age restrictions, and where the line should be drawn between personal freedom, regulation, and protecting people from addictive behaviors. They also explore the bigger question of how entrepreneurs can ethically market products and businesses built around potentially harmful vices. On this episode we talk about: New York's lawsuit against Polymarket and the ongoing battle over whether prediction markets constitute gambling Why prediction markets may be more susceptible to manipulation than traditional sports betting The challenges of enforcing age restrictions and preventing banned users from accessing gambling platforms Whether prediction markets are introducing gambling to younger people and new demographics The ethical challenges of building and marketing businesses around potentially addictive vices Top 3 Takeaways Labels don't necessarily change the underlying behavior. Whether a platform calls itself a prediction market or something else, putting money on a yes-or-no outcome can function very similarly to gambling. Regulation needs to account for how people actually behave. Simply banning a platform or raising the minimum age may push users toward unregulated alternatives rather than eliminating the behavior entirely. Entrepreneurs have to consider the ethics of what they sell. Travis discusses the tension between building a profitable business around something people enjoy and questioning whether promoting that product encourages an unhealthy behavior. Notable Quotes “They are technically buying futures, but it is gambling.” “There has to be some sort of like at least coming to terms with the idea that it's like, ‘Okay, well, either you can do it at eighteen or you can't do it at eighteen.’” “How do you ethically market a vice?” Connect with Travis Chappell: Instagram: @travischappell  Other: travischappell.com A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rajeev Kapur is a three-time CEO with three exits, the CEO of 1105 Media, a former member of Dell's leadership team, and an AI advisor focused on making artificial intelligence accessible to everyone—not just the tech elite. During his time at Dell, Rajeev helped build a $1 billion-plus U.S. business and led operations across China and South Asia. He's also the bestselling author of AI Made Simple and Chase Greatness, a CNBC contributor, and an advisor to multiple AI companies and boards. In this episode, Rajeev shares lessons from his unconventional path from 100% commission sales to working directly with Michael Dell, along with his perspective on how businesses should actually approach AI. On this episode we talk about: Why taking a 100% commission sales job at 22 taught Rajeev self-discipline, sales, and the importance of betting on yourself How Rajeev went from working in sales at Gateway to becoming one of Michael Dell's early executive assistants and eventually leading major international businesses Why being aggressive and memorable can help you create opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist, including the unconventional strategy that landed Rajeev an interview at Dell The leadership lessons Rajeev learned from Michael Dell, including hiring great people, delegating effectively, and getting out of their way Why companies need to establish a strong data foundation and get their people involved before investing heavily in AI agents and automation Top 3 Takeaways Bet on yourself when you're already at “no.” Rajeev's decision to FedEx his resume directly to Michael Dell came from a simple realization: he had nothing to lose. His advice is to be aggressive when pursuing an opportunity because rejection doesn't make your situation worse if you're already being overlooked. Focus on activity before obsessing over results. Rajeev learned early in sales that revenue is a lag measure while calls, proposals, and other activities are lead measures. Focusing on the actions you can control creates more opportunities for the desired result to follow. Don't automate a broken foundation. Rajeev argues that businesses need strong, secure, properly captured, and accessible data before building sophisticated AI agents. Just as importantly, employees need to understand how AI will help them rather than believing it's simply coming for their jobs. Notable Quotes "You've got to go to the job." "What do you got to lose? You got nothing to lose. What are they gonna say? No. Well you're already at no." "Most companies fail not because they do the wrong thing. They fail because they did the right thing for too long." Connect with Rajeev Kapur: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajeevkapur1/ Website: Rajeev.ai Books: Visit Rajeev's website for information about his upcoming books- Intelligence as a Commodity; Liberated by Limits; Your New Health OS A Word from Our Sponsors: - The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices