AI, Surveillance, and the Fight for Digital Sovereignty | Near's Illia Polosukhin

Markets are bleeding as Bitcoin breaks below $60K and Strategy faces its biggest test yet. Ryan and David unpack Saylor’s three-way squeeze, ETH Labs vs. the EF reset, quantum timelines moving up, and Illinois’ new crypto tax. --- 🧭OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0 https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro 3:35 Bitcoin Below $60K and Strategy’s 3 Body Problem https://www.tradingview.com/chart/KZYJV3ef/ https://www.strategy.com/ https://x.com/saylor/status/2069028571880845340 https://x.com/saylor/status/2069682624956612731 https://x.com/Pentosh1/status/2069797143917855024 https://x.com/jdorman81/status/2067616073479078386 https://x.com/jdorman81/status/2069857950202835258 https://x.com/ki_young_ju/status/2069646523668033833 https://x.com/PeterSchiff/status/2070146847692185798 https://polymarket.com/event/what-price-will-bitcoin-hit-before-2027 17:59 ETH, Stocks, South Korea Selloff, and the AI Trade 20:59 Why Crypto Is Down: AI Attention, Debasement Pause, and the 4-Year Cycle 27:06 Mover of the Week: $CARDS and Pokemon Cards as RWAs https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/collector-crypt 31:32 Ethereum’s Center of Gravity Shifts: EF Cuts and ETH Labs https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/2069431500035023121 https://blog.ethereum.org/2026/06/23/ef-structure https://x.com/aerugoettinea/status/2069017140846330107 https://x.com/tkstanczak/status/2069454499509596582 https://x.com/bobbyong/status/2069965817882755342 https://x.com/ethlabs_org/status/2069104073245159573 https://ethlabs.org/thesis.html https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2069110440903196810 https://x.com/trent_vanepps/status/2067593124398989551 51:50 White House Quantum EO: Are Crypto Timelines Moving Up? https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2069154174818754759 https://x.com/projecteleven/status/2069151681015627881 https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/2061793725299224676 57:25 Illinois Passes a 0.2% Crypto Transaction Tax https://x.com/0xBeaconLayer/status/2069120528238121154 https://x.com/manwithadogg/status/2069158605664756205 https://x.com/DarrenBaileyIL/status/2070149517102469527 59:50 Portfolio Check and Crypto Bottom Watch --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

What happens when powerful AI requires an ID, governments can restrict access by country, and your most private data flows through centralized systems? NEAR co-founder Illia Polosukhin joins David to explain why AI export controls could fracture the internet, how nationalized AI could become a surveillance layer, and why decentralized, user-owned AI may be the only real alternative. They also unpack Ironclaw, confidential inference, private agents, and NEAR’s push to make AI and assets fully sovereign. --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0 https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro 3:47 Pandora’s Box Opens 6:03 AI Meets Government 7:16 Decentralizing the Stack 8:51 Why Ban Fable? 11:18 Internet Balkanization 13:57 KYC for AI? 18:43 Nationalized Models 21:07 Building Private AI 26:30 Agent Marketplace 30:26 User-Owned Alignment 35:28 Winning Against Giants 40:19 Regulation Fuels Crypto 42:24 Global AI Adoption 45:05 Compute Is the Bottleneck 49:00 Enterprise Use Cases 51:39 Confidential TVL Explained 55:25 Full Sovereign Mode --- RESOURCES Illia Polosukhin https://x.com/ilblackdragon Near Protocol https://www.near.org/ --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Arthur Hayes is back on Bankless, and he’s taking the W off the table. After selling HYPE, NEAR and ZEC, Arthur walks through why the AI trade started to look less asymmetric, why oil and geopolitics may still be the bear case no one wants to price, and why ETH may offer one of the cleaner setups in crypto today. Then the conversation turns bigger: AI capex, circular revenue, China’s cheap models, GPU depreciation, and the moment Arthur thinks the Fed discovers it can’t print Moore’s Law. --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0 https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Why Arthur Sold HYPE, NEAR and ZEC 4:26 The AI Trade Starts to Look Crowded 6:25 How Arthur Is Positioned Now 7:15 Crypto’s Strange Market Dispersion 11:09 Oil, Iran and the Fake-Out Risk 14:16 Why the Iran Deal May Not Be Durable 17:29 Can AI Survive Higher Oil? 21:20 The AI Bubble Thesis 26:11 China’s Cheap AI Threat 30:38 The Credit Event Arthur Is Watching 35:51 The 2028 Perfect Storm 39:45 Why AI Is Draining Crypto’s Bull Market 44:28 Arthur on Inventing Perps 48:11 Why Perps Could Eat Wall Street 51:18 Socialized Loss Explained 53:21 Onshore vs Offshore Perps 55:50 Why Hyperliquid Can Flip Binance 56:30 The Perp Inventor Does Not Use Leverage --- RESOURCES Arthur Hayes https://x.com/CryptoHayes --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Equities are rallying, but Bitcoin is breaking down. David and Tom unpack Saylor’s STRC stress, Warsh’s first FOMC, SpaceX’s mega-IPO, Jito’s breakout, Coinbase’s Everything Exchange, and why perps may be crypto’s next real growth engine. --- 📣OKX | THE NEW MONEY APP https://app.okx.com/en-us/join/usbankless --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 📊BITGET | TOKENIZED STOCKS 2.0 https://bankless.cc/bitget-stocks 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES  0:00 Intro 3:07 Equities Up, Crypto Down: STRC Stress https://x.com/PeterSchiff/status/2067629492214829114 https://x.com/zackvoell/status/2067628541257429213 https://x.com/R89Capital/status/2067608064627491009 https://x.com/jdorman81/status/2067616073479078386 11:21 First FOMC with Kevin Warsh https://www.businessinsider.com/kevin-warsh-first-fomc-fed-meeting-interest-rates-2026-6 16:35 SpaceX Becomes One of the World’s Most Valuable Companies 25:43 Mover of the Month: JTO 31:01 Coinbase System Update https://www.coinbase.com/blog/system-update-take-control-of-your-money-with-coinbase https://x.com/oost_marcel/status/2067268725883981841 https://x.com/coinbase/status/2066890566667796530 https://www.theblock.co/post/405012/coinbase-unveils-system-update-unlocking-an-ai-advisor-global-unified-liquidity-options-trading-and-more 37:42 Anchorage Brings Hyperliquid to Institutions https://x.com/nathanmccauley/status/2066906951464947966 46:23 Blockworks Acquires Messari https://x.com/blockworks/status/2065468327120576863 50:40 UK Moves to Ban Social Media for Children https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/2066458640010158571 57:50 Polymarket World Cup Trade https://polymarket.com/sports/world-cup/bracket https://polymarket.com/event/world-cup-winner 59:50 Closing & Disclaimers --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Re is bringing the $1T reinsurance market onchain. Founder Karn Saroya and Electric Capital’s Avichal Garg join David to unpack how stablecoins can become a new capital source for insurance, why real-world reinsurance may offer crypto’s missing “real yield,” and how Re is using Ethereum, smart contracts, and AI to compete with legacy giants like Lloyd’s of London, Munich Re, and Swiss Re. They also discuss the RE token, the future of onchain capital markets, and why stablecoins could become the backbone of a new financial system. --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS  0:00 Intro 2:13 Blockchain Reinsurance Edge 4:12 Stablecoin Capital Markets 9:17 Efficiency Beats Incumbents 13:02 Rewiring Insurance Plumbing 16:24 Durable Startup Advantage 23:26 Reinsurance Market Size 30:09 How Reinsurance Pays 32:42 Capital Stack Mechanics 35:52 Leverage and Yield 40:02 What $RE Tracks 41:34 Tranche Yields 42:36 Productive Capital Returns 44:47 Looping the Receipts 48:01 $RE Token Governance 51:26 Roadmap to a Billion 52:13 Onchain Adoption Ahead 56:02 The DeFi Mullet Future --- RESOURCES  Re https://re.xyz/home Karn Saroya https://x.com/karnsaroya Avichal Garg https://x.com/avichal --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Pokemon cards are suddenly one of the hottest markets in collectibles. But why now, and what does it have to do with crypto? Andy8052 joins David to break down the rise of digital pack-opening platforms, the nostalgia-driven bull case for Pokémon, why grading companies have a stranglehold on the market, and how millions of dollars of real-world cards are slowly moving onchain. Are tokenized collectibles the next NFT comeback story, or just another frothy mania? --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS  0:00 NFTs to Pokémon Cards 2:59 Why Pokémon Is Hot 8:13 Nostalgia Meets Disposable Income 11:56 Brands, Influencers, and Hype 15:06 Pricing the Cards 16:21 Grading and Market Bottlenecks 22:16 Why Cards Still Aren't On-Chain 30:06 Inside Monster Strategy 34:40 Market Consolidation Ahead 35:42 Vaults, Shipping, and Logistics 38:13 Kids, Parents, and Collecting 40:45 Nostalgia Is the Real Bull Case 43:45 Where to Find Andy 44:35 Tokenized Cards and Stablecoins --- RESOURCES  Andy8052 https://x.com/andy8052 --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Perps are coming onshore. CFTC Chairman Mike Selig joins David to unpack the first U.S.-regulated Bitcoin perpetual futures contract, the end of regulation by enforcement, and what comes next for Coinbase, Kalshi, Kraken, Gemini, Hyperliquid, Lighter, and the broader U.S. perp market. They also discuss which assets could list next, how U.S. leverage will differ from offshore exchanges, and why equity perps, RWAs, and 24/7 trading may be the next frontier of American finance. --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS  0:00 Intro 3:32 Self-Certified Crypto Contracts 7:08 Chasing the U.S. Perps Market 9:00 Bringing Liquidity Onshore 10:18 U.S. Market Guardrails 12:44 Blockchain Transparency Advantage 19:17 Hyperliquid and Onchain Perps 23:09 Real-World Asset Perps 24:38 Equity Perps & SEC 26:35 Incumbents Versus Disruptors 31:28 Derivatives Dominating Crypto 33:16 Perps Are Just Beginning --- RESOURCES  CFTC Chair Mike Selig https://x.com/ChairmanSelig --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Bitcoin is back at Biden-era prices, ETFs are bleeding, and Saylor just did the thing he said never to do: sell. Ryan and David unpack whether crypto has one more drop left, what trillion-dollar IPOs reveal about broken capital markets, and why their ETH debate may be the real fight for Ethereum’s future. --- 📣OKX | THE NEW MONEY APP https://app.okx.com/en-us/join/usbankless  --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro 3:07 Markets https://x.com/aggrnews/status/2063954465678410121 https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2026/06/01/analysts-agree-strategy-s-bitcoin-sale-was-immaterial-differ-on-future-signals https://imgur.com/SDyYiQS https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/2063964293478101014  https://x.com/zoomerfied/status/2062288919853490553 https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitmine-immersion-technologies-announces-pricing-of-upsized-series-a-perpetual-preferred-stock-offering-302792359.html https://thedefiant.io/news/tradfi-and-fintech/bitmine-files-300m-preferred-stock-offering-9-5-yield-eth-treasury https://www.coindesk.com/business/2026/06/03/tom-lee-s-bitmine-to-offer-preferred-stock-with-9-5-dividend-seeking-to-raise-usd300-million https://imgur.com/tvIDofV https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2065049515384582205 https://polymarket.com/event/fed-rate-hike-in-2026 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/ https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jun/11/ecb-eurozone-interest-rates-iran-war-inflation 30:11 IPO Season https://app.lighter.xyz/trade/SPACEX https://app.lighter.xyz/trade/ANTHROPIC https://app.lighter.xyz/trade/OPENAI 36:29 Bankless Guys Are Fighting https://x.com/steweycrypto/status/2062796930326094216 https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2062598415482245528 https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2062599824491372906 https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2062612677466202281 https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2062644365533622705 https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2062669134614466707 https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2062674368195686809 https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2062745848673427471 https://x.com/Tommyb631/status/2062613008304451756 55:39 Morpho Flips Aave https://morpho.org/blog/morpho-association-raises-175m-to-build-the-open-credit-network-for-the-world/ https://x.com/0xLouisT/status/2063963380000407881 58:04 ZEC Vulnerability & Jason Calacanis’ Crypto-to-AI Tweet https://x.com/Jason/status/2064083020257055193 coindesk.com/.../zcash-plummets-30-as-developer-reveals-a-major-bug forum.zcashcommunity.com/.../orchard-counterfeiting-vulnerability 1:02:55 Hester Peirce Almost Out https://x.com/hesterpeirce/status/2064768651488608612 https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/speeches-statements/peirce-remarks-chamber-commerce-capital-markets-summit-060926 1:06:03 World Cup Starts https://polymarket.com/event/world-cup-winner 1:07:26 Closing & Disclaimers --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Hyperliquid has become the breakout perp exchange of crypto. But is the market missing its biggest competitor? Delphi’s Flip and DeFi investor Will Price join David to make the case for Lighter, a ZK-powered Ethereum L2 with zero-fee retail trading, white-glove distribution, real-world asset perps, and a token buying back revenue at a surprising rate. Is LIT just a Hyperliquid beta trade, or is it one of the most underpriced bets in onchain finance? --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro 3:05 Why Lighter Is Different 5:32 ZK Rollup Advantages 6:46 Charging Traders, Not Retail 12:07 Fairness Without MEV 14:50 Why Hyperliquid Can’t Copy 18:03 Distribution Beyond Crypto 22:08 Latency & Flow Quality 26:50 Technical Edge Across the Stack 30:31 RWAs & Pre-IPO Markets 34:07 U.S. Perps Market Play 36:05 Back-End For Big Brokers 38:28 Bootstrapping Liquidity 41:54 Lighter As A Platform 46:34 Token Value & Buybacks 50:11 Market Cap Versus FDV 53:02 Valuing LIT Properly 57:51 Cracked Team & Better Comms 58:13 Joining The Lighter Community 58:51 What Comes Next --- RESOURCES Will Price https://x.com/will__price Trevor Flipper https://x.com/trevor_flipper --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

AI is quickly becoming the interface through which people think, work, and make decisions—but most users have no idea how much personal data they're handing over in the process. Jon and Jesse from Venice join David to make the case for privacy-first AI, explain why Venice is aiming to become a mainstream consumer AI brand, and explore how $VVV and DIEM transform inference into a crypto-economic primitive. --- 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium --- BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 🧭OKX | TRADE, EARN, PAY to OKX | 120M+ USERS WORLDWIDE https://app.okx.com/join/USBANKLESS 🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD https://bankless.cc/brix 🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS https://thedefireport.io/bankless --- TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro 1:12 Why Private AI Matters 3:01 The AI Data Honeypot 6:07 Venice’s Consumer AI Ambition 8:01 Beating the Big AI Labs 10:19 Model Aggregation and Agentic Chat 12:29 Open Source, Closed Source, and Private Grok 17:14 Who Actually Needs Private AI? 21:58 Venice’s User Base 23:53 What Drove Venice’s Recent Growth 27:21 $VVV, DIEM, and Tokenized Inference 29:00 Where Venice Gets Its Compute 32:17 Bonding Curves and DIEM Monetary Policy 39:14 Real Tokenomics, Not Just a Pie Chart 45:46 AI Agents Need Inference to Exist 52:54 ShapeShift DNA Inside Venice 55:53 Regulation, AI, and Individual Rights --- RESOURCES Jon ShapeShift https://x.com/JonShapeShift Jesse Proudman https://x.com/jesseproudman --- Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures