The 10 FTE Wall: How to Scale Your Agency Past 10 Team Members

"Don't lead with the solution. This is my number one tip for agency operators. And it's my number one tip for traditional sellers, SaaS sellers—anybody who is trying to get someone to work with them."Are your sales suffering? Are you finding it harder to get calls and close deals? Are you looking for ways to run cold outreach or follow-up after an event that actually gets responses?If so, this episode of Agency Journey is for you.Jen Allen-Knuth is the founder of DemandJen, where she helps B2B sales and marketing teams build more pipeline when it might seem harder than ever before. With over 18 years of experience in sales, Jen now works with mid-market and enterprise organizations to help train their sales teams.In this episode of Agency Journey, Jen shares her insights on effective sales strategies, particularly in challenging economic times. She emphasizes the importance of focusing on the problem rather than the solution, slowing down the sales process to build trust, and using data-driven analysis to improve your approach.Whether you're looking to refine your agency's sales process, improve your cold outreach, or build stronger relationships with prospects, this episode is packed with actionable advice and real-world examples.Episode Insights:💡 Focus on the problem your solution solves, not just the features of your offering. Help prospects understand why they need to change before pitching your solution.💡 Use signal-based prospecting to identify potential clients who might have the problem you solve. Look for cues like new leadership, product launches, or industry shifts.💡 Slow down your sales process when things get tough. Analyze your wins and losses to identify patterns and areas for improvement.💡 Use "unsure tonality" in your outreach to demonstrate thoughtfulness and respect for the prospect's expertise.💡 When following up after events or webinars, provide additional value rather than immediately pushing for a sales call.💡 Consider reaching out to lower-level employees to test your problem hypothesis before approaching top decision-makers.💡 Use the "five whys" technique in discovery calls to uncover deeper motivations and needs of clients.Resources Mentioned:🌐 Jen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/demandjen1/🏢 DemandGen website: https://www.demandjen.com?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-312-jen-allen-knuth🛠️ Lavender (email writing tool)📚 The Challenger Sale (sales methodology)----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-312-jen-allen-knuth👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

Are you struggling to differentiate yourself in a saturated market? Are you finding it hard to win enterprise clients and manage complex relationships with them?On the other hand, perhaps you’re looking for ways to create high-quality content at scale, or demonstrate the long-term value of SEO to your stakeholders and clients?If any of those resonate, the latest episode of Agency Journey will be useful for you.Alex Birkett is the co-founder of Omniscient Digital, an organic growth agency that partners with B2B brands to build SEO programs. With a background in scaling agencies and working with enterprise clients like SAP, Adobe, and Loom, Alex shares his expertise on agency differentiation, content operations, and winning big clients.In this episode of Agency Journey, Alex dives into the strategies behind building a successful SEO agency, from differentiating your services to managing enterprise client relationships. He emphasizes the importance of developing a clear point of view and consistently delivering value to your target audience.Whether you're looking to scale your agency, improve your content operations, or land more enterprise clients, this episode is packed with actionable advice and insights from Alex's experience.Episode Insights:💡 Differentiate your agency by understanding how decision-making processes work in purchasing your services, and compete on edges beyond just price.💡 Use podcasts and newsletters to showcase your agency's personality and give potential clients a sense of what it's like to work with you.💡 When working with enterprise clients, focus on managing multiple stakeholders and understanding the complex approval processes.💡 Build a strong freelance writer network with subject matter experts who can contribute unique insights to your content.💡 Leverage original research and data to create thought leadership content that's difficult for competitors to replicate.💡 Focus on being the best version of yourself rather than obsessing over competition in the saturated agency space.Resources Mentioned:🌐 Alex's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamalexbirkett/🌐 Omniscient Digital website: https://beomniscient.com/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-311-alex-birkett📰 Alex's newsletter, Field Notes: https://beomniscient.com/newsletter/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-311-alex-birkett🎙️ The Long Game podcast: https://beomniscient.com/podcast/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-311-alex-birkett----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-311-alex-birkett👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

Tired of working harder for the same (or less) money? Frustrated by clients who don't value your expertise? Or perhaps you’re dealing with:– Razor-thin profit margins;– Clients who nickel and dime you;– Difficulty scaling without burning out;– Sales processes that feel like pulling teeth?If so, this episode of Agency Journey is for you.Raul Hernandez Ochoa is the founder of Do Good Work, a growth consultancy helping agencies scale and increase profitability. With experience building multiple agencies and leading teams to significant revenue growth, Raul brings a wealth of knowledge on pricing strategies, sales processes, and delivering high-value outcomes to clients.In this episode of Agency Journey, Raul shares his framework for increasing revenue per client without increasing workload. He tackles the mindset shifts you need to make, shows you how to ditch "selling services" for good, and reveals his value-based pricing approach that'll have clients eager to pay premium rates.Whether you're looking to boost your agency's profitability, improve your sales process, or deliver more impactful results for clients, this episode will be well worth your listen.Episode Insights:💡 Focus on selling outcomes and transformations rather than specific services or deliverables.💡 Develop a deep understanding of your ideal client's pain points and desired outcomes.💡 Use discovery calls to mirror the client's language and demonstrate a true understanding of their challenges.💡 Create a "methodology" or unique mechanism that delivers your outcomes, rather than selling individual tasks.💡 Offer different tiers of service, but ensure all options are profitable based on your ideal profit numbers.💡 Productize your services on the backend for efficient delivery, while presenting custom solutions to clients.💡 Continuously reinvest in yourself and bet on your own capabilities to drive agency growth.💡 Build patience with yourself, the process, and others as you implement new strategies.Resources Mentioned:🌐 Do Good Work website: https://dogoodwork.io/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-310-raul-hernandez-ochoa🌐 Raul's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dogoodwork/📚 "The Magic of Thinking Big" by David J. Schwartz----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-310-raul-hernandez-ochoa👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

"The value of an hour of your time as an agency owner, if you're growing, is never going backwards."In this episode of Agency Journey, Gray “The Martian” MacKenzie joins Kuba to discuss the challenges and strategies for agency owners scaling their businesses beyond 10 full-time employees (FTEs). Gray shares valuable insights on both the psychological and operational aspects of this critical growth phase.If your agency is past the 10 FTE threshold—or close to it—this is a must-listen to prepare you for the obstacles that you’re about to navigate.Episode Insights:💡 The "messy middle" for agencies is typically between 10-30 employees💡 There are specific skills owners need to develop at this stage: prioritization, forecasting, decision-making, and clear communication💡 Creating the next layer of leadership is crucial to reduce direct reports and manage growth💡 Move out of delivery roles first, and focus on the growth side of the business💡 Building robust systems and processes is key to supporting consistent delivery and hiring💡 Implementing capacity and workload tracking becomes critical at this stage💡 Leaning into your agency's unfair advantage is crucial for sustainable growthResources Mentioned:🌐 Gray’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/graymackenzie/🛠️ ClickUp: https://www.clickup.com/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-309-gray-10-fte-wall🛠️ EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System)----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-309-gray-10-fte-wall👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

“If a handful of 20 year olds can service millions of dollars a year in revenue—your agency can, with very little stress and very little complications. And your newsletter can, too.”Marketing Max is a serial entrepreneur and growth marketer with a seven-figure agency exit under his belt. He's the man behind the Growth Daily marketing newsletter, read by over 50,000 world-class CEOs, founders, and marketers every day.In this episode of Agency Journey, Max shares his journey from Wall Street to agency owner to media mogul. He discusses the pivotal moment when he niched down his agency services, leading to explosive growth and eventual exit. Max also dives deep into his current ventures, including his portfolio of marketing software, media, and service businesses built on the back of a massive audience.Whether you're looking to scale your agency, grow a newsletter, or build a media empire, this episode will help you get there.Episode Insights:💡 Read "Built to Sell" by John Warrillow - it can be a game-changer for agency owners looking to scale and eventually exit.💡 Niching down to one or two core services can lead to exponential growth and profitability for agencies.💡 Growing a newsletter through strategic ads can be a powerful way to generate leads and revenue for your agency.💡 Consider building a portfolio of businesses on the back of a large audience, using unsold ad inventory to promote your own products and services.💡 Create a "coloring book" template for your newsletter content to streamline production and maintain consistency.💡 Don't underestimate the power of systems and processes in scaling both agencies and media businesses.Resources Mentioned:📚 "Built to Sell" by John Warrillow🌐 Marketing Max on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxbidna/🐦 Marketing Max on X (Twitter): https://x.com/MarketingMax🌐 Growth Daily website: https://growthdaily.com/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-308-marketing-max🏢 The Newsletter Team: https://thenewsletterteam.com/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-308-marketing-max📺 Mad Men (TV show)👤 Russell Brunson----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-308-marketing-max👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

"Clarity is not the natural state of things. It is a discipline that we have to build into ourselves and into our organizations to create clarity for the team. The outcome is well worth it."In this episode of Agency Journey, Kuba talks with Gray about the importance of clarity in agency leadership and operations. Gray emphasizes that clarity is a form of kindness—it reduces anxiety, builds trust, and allows team members to make better decisions aligned with the company's vision.If you're struggling with unclear processes, misunderstandings in your team, or a lack of focus in your agency's direction, this episode will arm you with practical advice on how to bring more clarity to your organization.Episode Insights:💡 Clarity in vision allows team members to make decisions aligned with the company's goals💡 Documenting and communicating clear processes is crucial for consistent client experiences💡 Be more direct in communication than you think you need to be - most people appreciate candor💡 Build "relational equity" to balance direct feedback with personal care for team members💡 Use tools like the EOS Accountability Chart to clarify roles and responsibilities💡 Shadow top performers to document their processes, but be aware they may not be fully conscious of all they do💡 Regularly question if your actions align with your stated goals and vision for the business💡 Getting clear on who you serve (and who you don't) is often the biggest catalyst for agency growthResources Mentioned:🌐 Gray’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/graymackenzie/📚 "Extreme Ownership" by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin📚 "Turn the Ship Around!" by L. David Marquet🛠️ ClickUp: https://www.clickup.com/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-307-gray-clarity-kindness🛠️ EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System)👥 INBOUND Conference----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-307-gray-clarity-kindness👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

“We have to optimize the business just like a hotel optimizes their business—because you can only sell your time once, and we're in the business of selling time."Tycho Luijten is the CEO and co-founder of Dapper, a B2B marketing agency focused on helping scale-ups set up marketing engines that deliver inbound leads. With offices in Rotterdam and Lisbon, Dapper has grown to a team of 30 experts and has ambitious plans to become a key global player in the next 8 years.In this episode of Agency Journey, Tycho shares invaluable insights on niching down, creating effective video content for LinkedIn, and the importance of proper time tracking for agency growth. He emphasizes the power of focusing on a specific market segment and consistently delivering value through content marketing.Whether you're looking to refine your agency's focus, improve your content strategy, or optimize your operations, this episode is packed with actionable advice from a rapidly growing agency.Episode Insights:💡 Niche down to grow faster: Focusing on B2B scale-ups allowed Dapper to create targeted content and marketing strategies.💡 Balance specialists and generalists: Having a strong generalist who can oversee the entire marketing funnel is crucial in B2B marketing.💡 Create in-platform content for LinkedIn: Short video clips (1-3 minutes) that provide value and address prospect problems perform best.💡 Focus on building problem awareness, solution awareness, and authority in your content.💡 Aim for high visibility frequency: Post 4-5 times a week, including 1-2 videos, to stay top-of-mind with your target audience.💡 Use paid promotion to ensure your content reaches your ideal customer profile (ICP).💡 Start videos with strong statements or results to immediately capture viewer interest.💡 Implement proper time tracking to optimize business operations and profitability.💡 Leverage your existing team for sales support: Involve consultants in the sales process to handle tasks outside of client meetings, freeing up the founder's time for strategic thinking and key client interactions.Resources Mentioned:🌐 Tycho's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tycholuijten/🌐 Dapper website: https://www.dapper.agency/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-306-tycho-luijten🎙️ Agency Journey episode on time tracking with Gray MacKenzie: https://share.transistor.fm/s/b1232eb1📱 Rode microphone for video content creation🛠️ ClickUp for project management and time tracking📊 ZenPilot Profitability Reports: https://www.zenpilot.com/agency-profitability-and-utilization-reporting/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-306-tycho-luijten----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-306-tycho-luijten👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

"I can't grow if I'm doing the same stuff that I was doing last year. So for me to grow, I need to give my leaders space to grow in so that they're doing the stuff that I was doing last year—and then I'm doing something different. That's my yardstick for a good year."Damian Papworth is the founder and managing director of Globital, a white label digital marketing agency serving over 250 agencies across 6-8 countries. With a team of around 300 staff distributed globally, Damian has built a scalable agency model focused on consistent, high-quality fulfillment.In this episode of Agency Journey, Damian shares insights on building an agency for enterprise value, leading a distributed team, and navigating uncertain times in the industry. He emphasizes the importance of strategy over tactics and building strong relationships to weather economic challenges.Whether you're looking to scale your agency, improve your leadership skills, or prepare your business for a potential exit, this episode is packed with valuable advice from Damian's years of experience in the industry.🎁 Get $1,000 credit to try Globital's white label services for your agency: https://globitalmarketing.com/lp/white-label-digital-marketing/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-305-damian-papworthEpisode Insights:💡 Focus on profit, not revenue, when setting goals and measuring success. Your agency will be valued based on profit multiples, not revenue.💡 Be aware of the tension between operational value and enterprise value when making business decisions. Sometimes what works best day-to-day may not be ideal for selling your agency.💡 Build and maintain strong relationships with clients, especially during uncertain times. Agencies with deeper relationships have weathered recent challenges better than those relying on high-churn sales tactics.💡 Implement Net Promoter Score and make your operational teams responsible for customer satisfaction. This builds trust and drives continuous improvement.💡 Develop strong leaders within your organization to create a business that can run without you. Invest in executive coaching and give your leaders space to grow.💡 Create consistent, documented processes to deliver reliable results at scale. Focus on being consistently good rather than occasionally brilliant.💡 When meeting with your leadership team, ask "How can I help you?" to support their growth and development.Resources Mentioned:🌐 Damian's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/damianpapworth/🌐 Damian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/damianpapworth/🌐 Globital website: https://www.globitalmarketing.com/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-305-damian-papworth📚 "Who: The A Method for Hiring" by Geoff Smart and Randy Street🛠️ Net Promoter Score for measuring customer satisfaction----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-305-damian-papworth👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

Ben Catley-Richardson is the "Accountability Viking" for agencies, helping owners of 3-5 year old agencies grow beyond their own capabilities. With a background in video game journalism and a passion for Norse mythology, Ben brings a unique perspective to agency growth and accountability.In this episode of Agency Journey, Ben shares insights on the importance of rest and reflection in the growth cycle, the power of creating personas, and how to prioritize effectively in an overstimulated world. He emphasizes the value of disconnecting and the science behind why rest is crucial for sustainable business growth.Whether you're looking to scale your agency, improve your work-life balance, or foster a culture of intentional growth, this episode is packed with actionable advice and fascinating perspectives on Viking culture and modern business practices.Episode Insights:💡 Rest and reflection are crucial parts of the growth cycle. Taking time off isn't "doing nothing"—it's driving you forward and making sustainable business growth possible.💡 Creating a persona (like Ben's Viking persona) can give you permission to stand out and motivate you to live up to that image.💡 Digital agency owners are often overstimulated. Constantly being "plugged in" can hinder growth and learning.💡 Sleep is crucial for health and growth. Most people need more than 6 hours of sleep per night.💡 Focus on having a single priority rather than multiple "priorities." This makes decision-making easier and reduces procrastination.💡 To find your priority, identify the main blocker preventing you from achieving your goals. Your priority should be removing that blocker.💡 Create an environment that supports your priority (e.g. removing distractions).💡 Make the right sacrifices by prioritizing what truly matters. Don't sacrifice your life enjoyment for unnecessary work.💡 Aim to finish each week satisfied with your progress towards your priority. This makes it easier to truly unplug and enjoy life outside of work.💡 Celebrate your wins, no matter how small. Ben uses a handbell to mark achievements.💡 Ben's 5-gate system for growth and learning:🏛️ Awareness: Recognize the problem or opportunity🏛️ Agitation: Find motivation to take action🏛️ Attention: Focus without distractions🏛️ Reward: Reflect on progress and build momentum🏛️ Process: Rest and "bank" your gainsResources Mentioned:🌐 Ben’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/accountabilityviking/(☝️ check it out to sign up for Ben’s weekly “Thor’s Day” accountability emails + get a free 20-minute accountability MOT session!)🌐 Ben’s website: https://getshitdone.fun/?utm_source=youtube.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-304-ben-catley📚 "The Alter Ego Effect" by Todd Herman📚 "Why We Sleep" by Dr. Matt Walker📚 "Atomic Habits" by James Clear📚 "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman🏛️ The Norwegian Rune Poem⚒️ Mjolnir (Thor's hammer) as a symbol of accountability----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-304-ben-catley👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot

"Going from a company of know-it-alls to a company of test-it-alls—that's really powerful at the organizational level. And it makes people's work so much more meaningful."David Arnoux is the co-founder and CEO of Growth Tribe, one of Europe's leading EdTech providers focused on bridging digital skills gaps within organizations. With a background in growth marketing and consulting, David has built Growth Tribe into a powerhouse that has trained over 35,000 alumni from 1,000+ companies.In this episode of Agency Journey, David shares insights on the importance of experimentation, data-informed decision making, and continuous learning in today's fast-paced digital landscape. He emphasizes the value of upskilling teams to drive long-term impact and ROI for organizations.Whether you're looking to scale your agency, improve your team's capabilities, or foster a culture of experimentation, this episode is packed with actionable advice and fascinating perspectives.Episode Insights:💡 Focus on delivering measurable results for clients, considering both quantitative and qualitative/emotional impact.💡 Use the "five whys" technique in discovery calls to uncover deeper motivations and needs of clients.💡 Consider offering training as an add-on service to help clients better understand and implement your agency's work.💡 Adopt an experimentation mindset across your organization using the GROWS framework (Gather ideas, Rank ideas, Outline experiment, Work work work, Study results).💡 Aim to increase your experimentation velocity by 2-5x to drive faster learning and innovation.💡 When improving processes or systems, focus on removing complexity rather than always adding new tools or steps.💡 Surround yourself with "completer finishers" if you tend to be more of an idea generator and fire starter.Resources Mentioned:🌐 David’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidarnoux/🌐 Growth Tribe website: https://www.growthtribe.io/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-303-david-arnoux📚 "Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World" by David Epstein📚 "Managing the Professional Service Firm" by David Maister📚 "Thinking in Bets" by Annie Duke🧠 GROWS framework for experimentation👥 Winning By Design (sales methodology)----------------------------------Brought to you by ZenPilot, ClickUp’s #1 Solutions Partner with 3,000+ agency ops makeovers under our belt.📕 Read our in-depth, 8000-word How to Use ClickUp Guide: https://www.zenpilot.com/blog/how-to-use-clickup/?utm_campaign=agency-journey-ep-303-david-arnoux👉 Don’t forget to follow and rate us on your preferred podcast platforms. We’re also on YouTube: @ZenPilot