Grown Up Politics: A Chance for Change - Round Table with Neal Lawson of Compass and Rupert Read of the Climate Majority Project

We're at a pivotal moment in world geopolitics. Increasingly the masks and the gloves are both off - but it's not a binary choice any more between two sets of suits in slightly different coloured ties: now we have the right showing its true colours  - and a chance for the progressive majority in this country to find its feet and lead us towards a genuinely thoughtful, emotionally literate, high-bandwidth politics that ditches the toxic tribalism and instead lays the ground for a future that could actually work. We're joined this week by Neal Lawson, co-founder and Executive Director of the progressive pressure group, Compass; and Rupert Read, Co-Director of the Climate Majority Project. Neal is a member of the Labour Party, and Rupert of the Green party and we came together to discuss the forthcoming by-election in Makerfield, where Andy Burnham, Mayor of Greater Manchester is standing as a candidate, with a view to standing for leadership of the Labour Party if he wins.  His main challenger is the Reform party led by Nigel Farage.  The Greens are newly invigorated after their recent win in the Gorton and Denton by-election in Manchester, so there has been a lot of conversation in progressive circles as to whether the Greens should step away to give Burnham a clear run. This seemed a good moment to have a vigorous conversation - to explore the possibilities and potential and the routes forward should Burnham win. CompassThe Climate Majority ProjectAndy Burnham in the Observer committing to PR Jamie Driscoll's post in The Canary - There's Nothing Pragmatic About Centrism The Fraud by Paul Holden —About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'WALKING THE PATH OF THE INNER WARRIOR' which will run on Sunday 28th June 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods to come along - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

Good podcasts are part of an ecosystem of ideas that have the potential to change the world - to shift us into the new system we so badly need.  For a long time, Farmerama Radio has been at the leading, radical edge where food, farming and activism meet. In the early days, it was all about fostering the voices of grassroots, small-scale farming with monthly episodes featuring stories from the field. Then, in 2019, the co-founders, Abby Rose and Jo Barratt worked with Katie Revell to produce their first in-depth series Cereal, which looked at the process of creating bread, from seed to loaf. It was a huge hit, and building off the success of Cereal – which won two Guild of Food Writers Awards – they went on to produce several more series, including their most downloaded, Landed, a powerful exploration of land ownership and colonial legacy in Scotland. In April of this year, Farmerama launched a new project Cereal Revisited, looking at the real-world impact of their podcast, and how Farmerama's stories helped listeners take action, both big and small.  This is a story of Thrutopia in action and we are really delighted to welcome one of the co-founders, Abby Rose to this podcast. Abby continues to lead the podcast today (the team is all women) and is both a farmer and soil health advocate. She was named one of 50 New Radicals by The Guardian and Nesta in 2018 for her work developing simple apps that help build ecology, profitability and beauty on farms around the world, and then in 2020, she was named in Code Hospitality’s Top 100 Influential Women in Hospitality.  Farmerama Radio itself was named Best Investigative Work and Best Food Podcast at the Guild of Food Writers Awards 2020 and won Best Environment and Natural World podcast at the Independent Podcast Awards 2024.  So for a story that really gets to the heart of the power of story, please do listen and enjoy.LinksFarmerama website Farmerama Radio podcast on Apple Podcasts Wakelyns Farm in Suffolk Nottingham Mill Co-opHodmedod's YQ Grain at Hodmedod'sUK Grain Lab —About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'WALKING THE PATH OF THE INNER WARRIOR' which will run on Sunday 28th June 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods to come along - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

Life has been evolving on our planet for the past 3.8 billion years.  The ecosystems that thrive now have had a lot of practice at getting things right - particularly the complex web of inter-relations that allows us all to flourish. And yet, we're on the edge of the sixth mass extinction largely because we humans have forgotten how to inter-relate and inter-be with the rest of the web of life. At an intellectual level, we know we're integral nodes in the web, but we still behave as if it were other, and out there and not - yet - as if it were a source of wisdom and wonder and wholehearted support: an ancient mentor that has tried and tested enough options to know what works.  So how can we bring the astonishing, creative insights of Biomimicry to the field of human inter-being? How can we shift our sense of self and other, our communities of place, purpose and passion, our businesses, our governance structures…everything that we are and do onto a different trajectory using the web of life as our template?  Biomimicry for Social Innovation asks exactly these questions and in this episode, we're talking to its founder, Toby Herzlich. Toby is a facilitator, trainer, executive coach, and organizational consultant. She is a Certified Biomimicry Specialist and Founder of Biomimicry for Social Innovation, which exists to translate ecosystem intelligence and Life’s Principles into leadership and social change strategies.  As you'll hear, she's part of the team that developed The Nature of Trust, and its 8-principle framework for building and maintaining trust, which is so essential in any network of sovereign individuals whether they're bees, or penguins, elks or geese - or people. Living in northern New Mexico, Toby dedicated 20 years as a Senior Trainer with the Rockwood Leadership Institute and continues to support leaders and organizations through coaching and consulting inspired by nature.  Her clients include Executives at National Geographic Society, The Sierra Club, and The Cultural Conservancy. She is passionate about creating innovative approaches to collaboration, building, and guiding diverse networks including the Biomimicry Professional Certification two-year training cohorts, the Volgeneau Climate Initiative, North Carolina’s statewide progressive voter network, and the Indigenous Mycelium Gathering of 2025 - there's a link in the show notes and you will definitely want to explore that. Toby is the founding co-facilitator of the Living Systems Leadership Retreats for Women and has supported the capacity-building of women leaders in war-torn countries of the Balkans and the Middle East. There are so many richly inspiring pathways that Toby has opened as a result of bringing a social change and leadership development branch into Biomimicry - collaborating deeply with that larger movement and, at heart and core, with the Web of Life.  This was one of those conversations that could have gone on forever.  It didn't, we stopped at a reasonable time and are definitely planning to cycle back with each other. And the cats visited—Toby's and mine—which always makes a podcast flow with extra energy. Enjoy! BSI Website The Nature of Trust toolkit (free and online)Living Systems Leadership Retreat for Women- in NM Aug 31-Sept 5  - open for registration!Intro to Biomimicry for Social Innovation - virtual 4-week workshop, starts in OctoberNature of Trust Co-Lab - virtual 10-week deep dive training, starts in SeptemberToby on LinkedIn  (funny, when I open this, it asks me to join LinkedIn, rather than taking me to the page)What would Nature Do? Toby's Talk at Festival of Faiths (27 min video)  Indigenous Mycelium Gathering 2025  (8 min video)Other BSI resources:Life’s Principles Leadership Cards - a deck of 52 cards for learning and Nature Tarot!Nature Positive Practices - delivering Nature’s genius to your inbox twice a week!—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'WALKING THE PATH OF THE INNER WARRIOR' which will run on Sunday 28th June 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods to come along - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here.  The next Foundation Course is in October and currently has spaces. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

What are Thrutopian stories and why do we need them?  How do they work? And most importantly, how can we craft them to land most effectively with ourselves and each other at scale and in time? In this solo episode, Manda walks us through the middle way between the dystopia of now, towards the utopia of a future in which humanity flourishes as an integral part of a thriving planet.  What could it and would it be like if each of us woke up every morning feeling safe, feeling confident in our ability to meet the challenges of the day in ways that would leave the world a better place?  How would we feel if every moment of life was alive with a sense of meaning and purpose, of connection to all parts of ourselves, each other and the web of life?  We ask these questions regularly of our guests, but once in a  while, it's useful to unpick them in detail, to give ourselves the Motivation, Agency, Direction and Empowerment we need, so we can open doors for others in our communities of place, purpose and passion. Link to the Thrutopia website - what is Thrutopian thinking? —About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'WALKING THE PATH OF THE INNER WARRIOR' which will run on Sunday 28th June 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods to come along - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

If the death cult of predatory capitalism is based on money as the commodification of suffering (which it is) - how do we create a monetary system that encourages people to help each other, to create communities of place, purpose and passion that are genuinely supportive and to invest where trust and hope lead, rather than simply the hoarding of ever-increasing amounts of value? Stef Kuypers is an astonishing individual. He taught himself coding at age 14 and moved into a career in IT -  but he's a complete polymath and, after working the fields of creative thinking, improvisation, and business interventions, he took a deep dive into economics, monetary systems, complexity theory and human behaviour. Today he researches how monetary systems influence both our individual behavior and how it affects the way we organize our society. He's creator of the Sustainable Money Model and works for Happonomy in Belgium. He's also aware that we don't just need a system that will work differently, we need to find ways to help people transcend the inner blocks that tell us the existing system is the only one that can work and anything else is unrealistic. So, as an avid gamer online and on tabletops, he's devised board games that help people to experience what it's like to live in worlds that work differently.  And if you or anyone listening is associated with any kinds of games companies, please let us know - because regenerative gaming that models regenerative ways of living has to be one of the ways forward. That apart, we explored many routes to money and how we might handle it differently - enjoy! LinksStef on LinkedInStef's Tedx Antwerp Talk Stef's Tedx Youth TalkStef on Economy 2.0Papers on ResearchGate.netPaper on the Sustainable Money Model Paper on Computational Analysis of post-keynesian monetary systems Paper on decoupling economic health from growth —About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

When we talk about building community, we often get stuck trying to bridge tribal divides, particularly in a media landscape designed to monetise division, amplify hatred, and draw us into cycles of righteous anger.But what if there was a different approach? One that creates a sense of individual and collective agency, that centres the gifts and strengths of everyone in the room in a way that lets everyone feel heard and so sweeps beneath the tribal divisions to the heart of things, where we all care about a future that feels safe, and open, where we all feel confident and heard and seen, where we can bring our soul's growth to the table and be taken seriously. So how do we achieve this social sculpting?  This week, we're talking to three members of the Generative Journalism Alliance to find out how they bring these very skills to disparate people in disparate places, to bring about real world changes. Tchiyiwe Thandiwe Chihana was born in Bradford to Zambian born parents, and her existence is a tapestry of migration through generations. She is a public-interest broadcaster & moderator, building civic storytelling platforms that connect institutions & communities. Managing Director, African Voices Platform (TV & DAB) and Co-Founder, Generative Journalism AlliancePeter Pula has been exploring the pathways to social evolution since founding the Grassroots Review in Canada in 1992. Since then he has been actively involved in federal politics, led a corporate communications firm and established the practice of Generative Journalism in an international arena. Jack Becher is a systems change facilitator and story weaver with a background shaped by social-ecological movements. They are the Co-Founder and Steward of the Generative Journalism Alliance, Beyond Patriarchy, Sideways, Foundations Earth and the Kinstead.This conversation opens doorways to a future where we have the wide, deep skills to move through the tribal divisions that our current system stokes so effectively, towards a place where we discover what matters to us most, and find ways to give everyone a sense of agency, of meaning and purpose, of being and belonging.  This is how change happens, one conversation at a time and the Generative Journalism Alliance is hosting those conversations with deep integrity.  Tchiyiwe on LinkedInPeter on LinkedIn Jack on LinkedInGJA on LinkedInGJA SubstackGJA Just Transition Field Report pdfUpcoming GJA Workshops (Next series starting 4th June)Axiom News Media Sovereignty Petition —About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

Can we separate politics from democracy? Our political system is wholly corrupt and no longer fit for purpose - if it ever was. What if Citizens' Assemblies could bring agency to the whole of our population, helping people to find empathy with each other, to engage in conversations in good faith and work together to solve the wicked problems of the polycrisis: social inequity, climate chaos, the death cult of predatory capitalism.  These are so interlinked, we won't fix one unless we fix them all. So how do we do it?  This week, I'm talking to someone who spends her life reflecting on, teaching and researching this. Isabella Roberts started off in the Big Four, Private Equity and Investment Banking, then switched from the private markets into politics at the start of 2021 as a candidate for the London Assembly elections. Against the backdrop of the UK's first year out of the EU and in the depths of the COVID pandemic, she was inspired to take a stand and be the change she wanted to see in the governance of the UK's capital. She then took on a Masters in Digital Politics and Sustainable Development.  Her thesis in 2023 focused on How Collective Intelligence Can Enhance Democracy, which resulted in the initiation of SAAFE which stands for: Space for Silent Contemplation and Reflection, Active Listening and Feeling Heard, Ability to Change One's Mind, Feeling Connected as Part of the Whole, Epistemic Growth and Epistemic Humility - and which uses human-centred design principles for empowering participants in tech-enabled deliberation. This is an inquiry into what it means to be human in a digital age, in line with systems change towards a more deliberative democracy, and it has manifested in a multi-stakeholder project supported by the Web Science Institute at the University of Southampton, bringing together democratic practitioners and the developers of deliberative technologies.  Meanwhile, Bella is the independent evaluator of two deliberative processes: the Birmingham Museums Trust Citizens' Jury, and currently the National Gallery's Citizens' Assembly (NG Citizens).  She also completed her first Vipassana course of 10-day silent meditation and is studying for a PhD with the title: Revolutionising deliberative democracy with immersive technology - a comparison between East and West. Bella has explored the depth and breadth of what works, so that together, we can create a democracy that empowers ordinary people to help fix their communities and the wider world. Like previous podcast guests, Matt Golding of Antidote and Dylan McGarry of Empatheatre, Bella understands the sense of meaning and purpose and involvement that is so transformative - which was why this conversation was so rich and so deep.  Enjoy!LinksBella on LinkedInAntipartyDelibtechBreathe With Bella SubstackBella on YouTube Bella on Spotify@Antiparty on YouTubeANTIPARTY on SpotifyPOLISBooksAgainst ElectionsPolitics without Politicians by Helen Landemore Bella's Masters Dissertation - How Can Collective Intelligence Enhance Democracy? An Investigation Towards Human Centred Design Principles For Empowering People Engaging With Deliberative Technologies?—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

Contemplatives down the centuries have expressed a sense of unity with the All That Is, the Heart Mind of the Universe, whatever we want to call it. The words may be different, but the sense of non duality, of immanence, awe and inter-being seem universal. Only in our western world do we resolutely decide that the world is made of atoms and nothing really matters.  Except clearly it does, and if we have one central crisis in our world today, it's one of meaning-making. Even more than our failure to make sense of anything, is our search for a sense of meaning and purpose that must, surely, underlie everything.  Where we fall down is in thinking that what we can see, hear, taste, smell, feel is the sum total of all there is: if we can't sense it - if we can't measure it - then it isn't there - and it doesn't matter.  This is the kind of frame that underlies the entire death cult of predatory capitalism; it's the core of how we have made the world work…and it's falling apart under our feet and in front of our eyes. Which makes it a really good time indeed to talk to someone who spends their entire life contemplating the nature of reality, in finding ways to be fully present and then being this in a way that ripples out to anyone and everyone nearby, human and more than human. Brother Phap Linh, also known as Brother Spirit, is a Buddhist monk from Plum Village, the Zen monastery founded by the late Thich Nhat Hanh near Bergerac in south west France. Brother Phap Linh is someone who radiates presence, that sense of inter-being or inter-becoming that arise when we are fully present.  As you'll hear, he began life as a musician and mathematician and then, in searching for the nature of reality, found Plum Village and his teacher.  He and Thich Nhat Hanh planned a book: Wonder: Where Zen meets Science. It's being published later next year and we'll have another conversation explicitly about the book, but today, we wanted to explore the routes towards a way of being that all of us can follow. This was a wide, deep conversation and felt absolutely right for the chaos of these times.  Please share the calm with us, and the joy of discovery. LinksPlum Village Being Peace (Monastery in the UK) Books by Thich Nhat HanhBooks by Mae-Wan Ho—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

Imagine a world where every one of us finds meaning in living a good life - and where 'good' means conducive to the flourishing of all beings. Imagine that this frames our every thought, sensing and action, allowing us to explore and question our triggered responses to the world we are enmeshed with in a way that is resilient and self-regulating, so that we can bring the best of ourselves to the table, with outcomes as information, ready to engage with what is, for what matters, and not to force how we think things ought to be.  Imagine us working to govern this way of being so our our actions are shaped, moment by moment, day by day, year by year, decade by decade as we turn the bus that is humanity - the entire ecosphere, really - from the edge of the cliff that is mass extinction to collective enduring flourishing. This is the vision of this week's guest, Dr Victoria Hurth.  Victoria was with us back in Episode #308 and I have put a link in the show notes so you can listen as she describes her new book, Beyond Profit; Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy and the ISO 37011 Standard which she is helping lead - and which is framed exactly around these philosophical concepts. Near the end of that podcast, Victoria mentioned that she is a practicing Stoic, and that she finds within its teachings, a moral philosophy compatible with our navigating the pinch point of the poly crisis. And so clearly, we had to have another conversation.  This is it.  As we did last time, we ranged far and wide touching on what it means to be in service to the world; how we might choose to live a purpose-driven life and what that purpose might be; what does it mean, anyway, to live a good life, and can everyone access it?  We explored the difference between religion, spirituality and philosophy and ethics, how we can expand to whole systems, or see ourselves as a system and how we might live a life that is wise, just, courageous and temperate. As a bit of background, Dr Victoria Hurth is an Independent Pracademic who works in service to the world clarifying its consensus on what matters, before we lose it. She firmly believes that we need to dedicate ourselves to the long-term wellbeing of all as the ultimate shared purpose, and then co-create the outer-most governance system to frame the strategies/behaviours/outcomes that will take us there.  We don’t need everyone to sign up, but we do need a critical mass of people at all levels of our organisations from government, to NGOs to industry and beyond.  To this end, Victoria co-led the five-year development of the global ISO standard in Governance of Organizations (ISO37000), was Technical Author for the first national standard in Purpose-Driven Organizations and is currently Project Leader of the development of an equivalent ISO (ISO37011). Victoria is a Fellow of the University of Cambridge Institute of Sustainability Leadership (CISL), Director at the Soil Association Certification Ltd and advises Planet Mark, and UnaTerra Venture Capital. She has over 25 years’ global experience in business transformation and is a full time Associate Professor of Marketing and Sustainable Business.  Alongside all this, she is also a practicing Stoic. LinksEpisode #308 Beyond Profit book Victoria’s website Victoria on LinkedIn Purpose-Driven Organisations– community  BooksStoicism and Emotion by Margaret GraverThe Enchiridion by Epictetus Beyond the Individual: Stoic Philosophy on Community and Connection by  Will Johncock Podcasts Practical Stoicism with Tanner CampbellAI Generated overview of Stoic practice created by Victoria (Claude)—About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.

“I think empathy is a creative act. It’s imaginal, it’s an art-making practice, where even just listening is creating a picture and a lifeworld of the other inside yourself in order to get closer to each other.” - Dylan McGarryEmpathy is a magical thing.  It lets us do more than just step into another's shoes, it opens the doors for us to step into their heart and soul with the vast generosity of spirit we'd like others to bring to us, wide as the sky, deep as the oceans, so that we can see through their eyes as the best of who they are. Obviously, we can do this with other people, but we can do it too, with whales, with elephants, with horses, and red kites and moles and spiders - and mountains and trees and landscapes… empathy is the spark that connects us to the More than Human world.  There are not many people who truly understand this and fewer still who make it their life's work to open the doors in our souls with such subtlety that we only know afterwards that we've stepped beyond the boundaries of who we think we are. Our guest this week, Dr Dylan McGarry, is one of these people. Dyl works across the fields of Education, Sociology, Ecology, and the Arts. An Educational Sociologist, Cultural Ecologist, multimedia artist, artivist, curator, theatre and filmmaker, Dyl's work spans disciplines with many tentacles touching the world. Dyl holds a PhD in Environmental Education and Art, as well as degrees in Marine Science, Environmental Science, and Sustainable Rural Development.As co-founder of Empatheatre, their praxis draws from the power of public storytelling, theatre, film, and animation, as a tool for regenerative community building, proactive justice, active empathy and meaning making.  Their artwork and creative practice are particularly focused on empathy, working with imagination, listening and empathy as actual sculptural materials. They are developing pedagogies for empathy, in the context of ecological citizenship, and exploring the sculptural potential of empathy, attentiveness, intuition and learning. Dyl is an astonishingly prolific, and inspiring pracademic, with a host of published papers in topics that I could easily dive into for years - like hydro-feminism... but it's the work of Empatheatre that we're really looking at today.  This is a theatre-based approach to transgressive social learning, and an extra-legal alternative to democratising policy change. This in itself is mind-blowing - the plays are developed over months or years in collaboration with the communities affected by the concepts - and then when the play tours, the cast and crew facilitate conversations after each event that turn into tribunals or citizen's assemblies and the mere fact of having experienced the deep emotions of the play, had a sense of how things land with other people, can open doors that were previously closed.  I've been searching for longer than this podcast has been live for people who are crafting paradigm shift in ways that are sticky, that will land and last - and this is it.  Dylan says that empathy has three components: Imagination, attentiveness, and intuition. And just hearing this opens whole new ways of being for me, and I hope for you.  This was such a heart-filling, generative conversation and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. People of the podcast, please welcome Dylan McGarry from Empatheatre, and so much more. ​"His sensitivity and integrity regarding valuing the knowledge, perspectives and values of others is amazing – a role model for others."      Professor Charlie Shackleton, Department of Environmental Science, Rhodes UniversityLINKShttps://www.dylanmcgarry.org/https://www.empatheatre.com/Empatheatre on YouTube https://youtu.be/p_W3QBz9cPY?si=mFH4W2V7_AnObM61  Lalela uLwandle (illustrated short film)https://youtu.be/DnuZa7r0vPc?si=RX3Is2k4eN0ROO9e  CWF24 TA1 Empatheatre Dylan McGarryhttps://youtu.be/sfAGXCiki8U?si=fXaqm66WlKCqO2j6 FORGE x MOTH Festival of Ideas 2025 | Dylan McGarry & Elisa Morgerahttps://youtu.be/lNm-Yf8Dt10?si=CkJW0aqePYEQAX3h  Indlela Yokuphila: The Soul's Journey (ZULU)https://youtu.be/e3tUrfUXgsw?si=tQRxPTSLHgkDwckG Isitha Sabantu Teaserhttps://youtu.be/4UBubIpCWuk?si=CyVzPA7suMnmbrrr The Blue Blanket South African Puppet Company: The HerdsThe play: Isitha Sabantu - review —About Accidental Gods—We offer three strands all rooted in the same soil, drawing from the same river: Accidental Gods, Dreaming Awake and the Thrutopia Writing Masterclass Our next Open Gathering offered as part of our Accidental Gods Programme is 'FALLING IN LOVE WITH LIFE' which will run on Sunday 17th May 2026 from 16:00 - 20:00 GMT - details are here. You don't have to be a member of Accidental Gods - but if you are, all Gatherings are half price.If you'd like to join us at Accidental Gods, this is the membership where we endeavour to help you to connect fully with the living web of life. If you'd like to train more deeply in the contemporary shamanic work at Dreaming Awake, you'll find us here. If you'd like to explore the recordings from our last Thrutopia Writing Masterclass, the details are hereManda and Louise both offer one-to-one Mentoring Calls.  Manda is fully booked just now, but if you'd like to contact Louise, details are here.