273: Paula Cole

Guitarist, bassist, composer Phil Upchurch died on November 23, and with his passing the music world lost one of its true "musician's musicians." Upchurch played on more than a thousand recordings  — from Michael Jackson, Donny Hathaway, Chaka Khan, Curtis Mayfield, and George Benson to Jimmy Reed, the Staples Singers, and countless jazz, blues, and soul sessions. He belonged to the generation that didn't just shape popular music; they invented it. For my dad, Ben Sidran, Phil was also a friend for over 50 years. They recorded and toured together, shared studios, homes, families, and a deep creative kinship. Some of my earliest gigs as a drummer were with Phil, and those moments helped define my own musical path. When we heard that Phil had passed, I called my dad so we could remember him together — the sessions, the stories, the laughter, the generosity, and the unmistakable sound that made him both an insider's secret and a foundational figure in American music. This episode is a tribute — a conversation about a life lived fully in music, about reputation and legacy, and about the musicians who shaped the landscape from behind the scenes. Visit Third-Story.com for the full archive, and sign up for writing and updates at leosidran.substack.com. The Third Story is made in partnership with WBGO Studios. https://www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story

Madison Cunningham's new album Ace marks a striking and vulnerable chapter in the young songwriter's evolution. Not yet 30, Cunningham has already lived through a period of profound personal transformation. She married young, divorced young, and found herself rebuilding her identity in the wake of major change. Instead of retreating, she turned the experience into a meditation on the difference between happiness and contentment. Raised in a large religious family in Orange County, Cunningham began performing in her father's church band at twelve and was experimenting with alternate tunings before she fully understood them. Her breakthrough albums Who Are You Now (Grammy-nominated) and Revealer (Grammy winner for Best Folk Album) established her as one of the most distinctive voices of her generation. Here she reflects on her early musical formation, artistic growth, and the deeply personal experiences that shaped Ace—a record about honesty, resilience, and learning to stay present. www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story This episode is sponsored by Musication, offering in-home music lessons in Brooklyn and Manhattan for kids ages three and up. Visit https://musication.nyc and mention the podcast to receive two free trial lessons.

Singer and composer Theo Bleckmann has spent his career between categories - jazz and avant-garde, improvisation and composition, structure and discovery. Born in Germany, he began as a boy soprano and figure skater before discovering jazz and moving to New York to study with Sheila Jordan. Since then, he's built a singular life in music, collaborating with artists like Meredith Monk, Laurie Anderson, and Ben Monder. Here he talks about community, teaching, queerness, and the meaning of "a life in music" rather than "a career in jazz." He also talks about his new album Love & Anger, produced by Ulysses Owens Jr., which bridges Kate Bush and the Beatles, Frank Ocean and original compositions - all infused with curiosity, empathy, and mystery. This episode is supported by Musication, providing in-home music lessons in Brooklyn and Manhattan to children ages 3yrs old and up. Email [email protected] and mention "The Third Story" to receive two free trial lessons.  www.third-story.com https://leosidran.substack.com/ https://www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story

British singer-songwriter dodie has spent half her life in public. Long before algorithms and engagement metrics ruled the day, she began posting homemade songs and videos on YouTube as a teenager from Essex. Her soft voice, self-effacing humor, and unfiltered honesty drew millions of viewers who watched her grow up online—sharing heartbreaks, mental-health struggles, and moments of joy in real time. Fifteen years later, that same authenticity anchors her second album, Not For Lack of Trying (Decca / Verve), a project that finds her looking inward with more clarity and balance than ever. Produced with Joe Rubel, the record feels both intimate and expansive, blending hushed guitars, clarinets, and a subtle electronic pulse beneath lyrics about healing, boundaries, and learning to feel okay. Here she talks about what it means to grow up online, how she learned to protect her private life, and the long road to emotional equilibrium. She opens up about the strange feedback loop of being praised for her pain, the decision to step back from constant posting, and the discovery that medication, therapy, and time have finally helped her feel "a bit better." She discusses the making of Not For Lack of Trying, her collaboration with friends like Greta Isaac and producer Joe Rubel, and the sonic choices that define her sound - the low rumble of drop-tuned guitars and the warmth of analog synths supporting a voice that seems to hover just above the mix. "When I'm writing," she says, "I'm not aiming for how it sounds. I'm aiming for how it feels—I just want to get goosebumps." Along the way, dodie reflects on the evolution from being a "special girl" with a ukulele and a webcam to becoming a full-fledged artist with more than a billion streams, seven million followers, and a place on Forbes' 30 Under 30 list. Through it all, she's still trying, still curious, still kind, still chasing that feeling. www.third-story.com www.substack.leosidran.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story

The Köln Concert by Keith Jarrett is one of the most iconic recordings in jazz history — a completely improvised solo piano performance, recorded in 1975, that became both the best-selling solo album and the best-selling piano album of all time. And yet, the concert almost didn't happen. The new film Köln 75, directed by Brooklyn-based filmmaker Ido Fluk, tells the remarkable true story behind that night through the eyes of Vera Brandes, the 18-year-old German concert promoter whose persistence and intuition made it possible. Against all odds - and with only a broken, nearly unplayable piano to work with - Brandes helped turn what could have been a disaster into a historic moment that continues to resonate fifty years later. Here Vera Brandes shares her memories of that night and her reflections on the making of Köln 75, which captures not only a pivotal event in jazz but also a coming-of-age story set in a post-war Germany rebuilding its identity. The conversation explores how art, community, and chance intersect, how the myths, friendships, and behind-the-scenes stories give life to the music itself. Narrative films about jazz are notoriously difficult to make, but Köln 75 manages to do the almost unthinkable: it's funny, urgent, and even sexy — a movie about a concert promoter trying to put on a show that somehow feels thrilling and alive. www.third-story.com  leosidran.substack.com  wbgo.org/studios  

Pianist, songwriter, and performer Jacob Jeffries the morning after he played Madison Square Garden with Vulfpeck, reflecting on the surreal thrill of performing in the legendary arena with his close friends, while also grounding the experience in the everyday reality of being a working musician. The conversation traces his journey from South Florida (where his childhood was shaped by Beatles records, summer theater programs like Lovewell, and the absence of a bar mitzvah he later regretted) to his early career with the Jacob Jeffries Band and formative studio experiences with Grammy-winning producer Sebastian Krys and guitarist-producer Dan Warner. He describes being taken under their wing, signed to Warner Chappell at 18, and even meeting Rick Rubin as a teenager—moments that felt like he was "six inches from Madison Square Garden," only to discover it would take another 20 years of steady work to get there. Along the way, Jeffries talks about grief (losing both parents by his mid-20s), his bond with fellow Vulfpeck member Theo Katzman, the power of collaborative creativity, and the balance between sincerity and playfulness in his own music. He reflects on the intimacy of his new record You Got the Right Idea, the surreal humor of songs like This Is Not the Song I Wrote, and how he embodies a kind of singer, storyteller, and surrealist performer all at once. Jacob is on tour this month opening for the band Lawrence. www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story  

Born and raised in Madrid, Leonor Watling grew up between cultures, the daughter of a Spanish academic father and a British mother who had been raised in Africa. From an early age she was aware of both the fragility and the richness of life: her father was sick for much of her childhood and passed away when she a teenager, just as she began working steadily as an actress. That combination of otherness and awareness shaped her perspective, both on stage and in song. Best known internationally for her starring role in Pedro Almodóvar's Talk to Her, she is one of the most recognizable faces in Spanish cinema, constantly at work in new films and series. Watling has also built a parallel career as a musician. For nearly two decades she fronted the band Marlango, releasing seven albums and touring the world, first singing in English and later in Spanish. In this conversation, recorded in Madrid, Leonor reflects on her journey from early television fame to international cinema, from intimate songwriting to major-label tours, and from the demands of motherhood to the challenges of sustaining a creative life.  We also unpack our own collaboration, Leo & Leo, a new project that reimagines songs from the Leo Sidran song catalog alongside new originals, featuring guests Jorge Drexler, Kevin Johansen, Sol Sidran, Javi Peña, and the Paris based Groovy French Band. At its heart, this is both a portrait of an artist who has spent decades walking the line between acting and music, fame and privacy, English and Spanish—and a rare, intimate conversation between two close collaborators who are still discovering new ways to ask questions of each other. www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com

Stella Cole went from nearly giving up singing in college to becoming one of the breakout stars of the pandemic era, thanks to her viral performances of American Songbook standards on TikTok. Now signed to Decca and releasing her second full length album It's Magic, she talks about following her instincts, finding her voice, and turning childhood obsessions into a career. www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story  

Every year on his birthday, my dad and I sit down for a conversation. It started when he turned 76, and with a few exceptions, we've done it ever since - capturing an ongoing record of where his head and heart are at that particular moment. Over the years we've talked about music, memory, politics, travel, the craft of performing, and the art of living. These annual conversations have become a kind of time-lapse portrait: the same two people returning to the mic, but always a little changed. This year, as Ben turns 82, the theme that emerges is that he is "still auditioning for the role of myself."  We talk about what it means to keep creating, to stay curious, and to hold on to your sense of fun as the outside world speeds up and your personal world contracts.  Ben is, as always, the consummate jazz philosopher. "History is what we make of it and what we live every day," he tells me. "We're all feeling pain, and you can't deny it. [...] But the response to pain is something separate from the pain itself. And in that distance between the pain and the response to pain is where our work is." He shares stories from his days hosting NPR's Jazz Alive and later Sidran on Record, explains how he came to be the first person to record Billy Joel's "New York State Of Mind," reflects on maintaining the outsider's perspective, and weighs in on the latest curveball: AI-generated music.  If you've been following this series of birthday talks, then this is a great addition to the canon. If this is your first one, welcome - you're dropping into the middle of a conversation that's been going on for years, and will, I hope, keep going for many more. Ben's most recent album Are We There Yet (Live at the Sunside) was released earlier this summer.   www.leosidran.substack.com www.third-story.com www.wbgo.org/studios www.bensidran.com

In 2018, film editor, producer, writer, and director Mary Sweeney sat down for a wide-ranging conversation about her career — from growing up in Madison, Wisconsin, to collaborating with one of the most visionary directors of our time, David Lynch. That conversation traced her evolution as an artist, her pivotal role in shaping films like Lost Highway, The Straight Story, and Mulholland Drive, and the intimate creative and personal relationship she shared with Lynch. Seven years later, in the wake of Lynch's death in early 2025, Sweeney returns for a follow-up conversation, recorded in a Paris hotel room nearly to the day of the original talk. While she has grown and evolved in the intervening years, she is also, unmistakably, in the process of mourning. This new conversation captures a deeply human moment: a woman navigating the complexities of grief, memory, and creative identity after the loss of a longtime collaborator and partner. Sweeney reflects not only on the legacy of her work with Lynch, but also on her ongoing life as an artist, mentor, and teacher. She speaks candidly about the challenge of being defined by a past she helped create, even as she seeks to shape new stories. There's a tension between wanting to move forward and being drawn back to moments that shaped her — and a palpable vulnerability in her willingness to explore that contradiction publicly. Paris itself plays a quiet role in the conversation — a place of reflection and ritual that has become part of Sweeney's life in recent years. The setting adds to the emotional texture of the interview: past and present gently overlapping in a city known for memory and reinvention. If the first conversation served as a kind of time capsule — a snapshot of a creative life at a particular moment — this follow-up serves as both an epilogue and a revision. It expands the story, complicates it, and deepens it. In the language of film, it might be called a director's cut: longer, more revealing, more personal. Ultimately, this episode is about how stories are shaped, reshaped, and sometimes reclaimed. About how we carry our experiences forward. And about how, even in the face of loss, we find ways to keep creating — and keep becoming. www.third-story.com www.leosidran.substack.com www.wbgo.org/podcast/the-third-story