RTFM 242 BONUS: Author Connor Hutchinson talks about his book, Dead Lucky

We kick off with some kind of intro or other, Jon and Fintan talking about something probably [0:00 – 8:56], before meeting the latest author with a book up for the inaugural Gambling Book Awards.We meet the lovely Connor Hutchinson, a writer whose first novel, Dead Lucky, has won many plaudits. It’s about a young man who works as a professional embalmer, and is also a gambling addict. Yes, you read that right and yes, it’s a very dark comedy. But Connor did his homework on addiction before starting the book, and that’s part of what makes it so interesting and so perfect for the Gambling Book Awards. So while it may be a very funny book, it also contains many raw elements and realities.Our conversation also gets into grief and funerals, because well, embalming [8:57 – 1:01:13]. Connor Hutchinson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/connor-hutchinson-347528167/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are the Santa Claus to our humble reindeer selves.In no particular order they are: the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. No nosebags for these guys!Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to keep creating content for an industry that probably thinks we disappeared years ago. If Optimove were a reindeer, you know they’d be Rudolph. Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. There is simply nobody better at what they do. And that’s why they’re Santa, and the industry is the grateful recipient of their mighty gifts.The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/ Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/ Follow the podcast on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-gambling-files-podcast/ Sponsorship enquiries: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/contact/ Get...

We kick off with some fluff, nonsense and frippery from Fintan and Jon [0:00 – 10:42] before meeting our exalted guest. Now, apologies for a couple of things on this episode. Fintan’s mic goes weird (most noticeable on the intro), and our guest is a tiny bit quiet.We discuss the evolving landscape of gambling compliance with James Killsby from Vixio Gambling Compliance, getting into the recent tax changes in the UK gambling industry, the implications for horse racing, the rise of the black market, and the challenges faced by suppliers in obtaining licenses. The conversation also touches on the fragmented nature of the US gambling market and the potential need for federal oversight to create a more cohesive regulatory environment. Finally, they explore the declining popularity of horse racing and the political dynamics that influence its future.Choice quotes:"It's a dark day for the UK industry.""Horse racing is declining worldwide.""Horse racing is the sport of kings."James Kilsby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-kilsby/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are the Santa Claus to our humble reindeer selves.In no particular order they are: the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. No nosebags for these guys!Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to keep creating content for an industry that probably thinks we disappeared years ago. If Optimove were a reindeer, you know they’d be Rudolph. Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. There is simply nobody better at what they do. And that’s why they’re Santa, and the industry is the grateful recipient of their mighty gifts.The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/ Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

You can consider this episode an early Christmas present from us. Seriously, it’s that good. I’m not kidding, listen to the whole thing, then you’ll know what Jon and Fintan are eulogising about in the intro [0:00 – 26:44]. And wait til you get to the DHL story! Mindblowing. This episode’s guest is Keith O'Loughlin, a veteran of the gambling industry and author of a new book Eddie Jordan: Full Throttle. They explore the life lessons learned from Eddie Jordan's experiences, the impact of Keith's book and its charitable contributions, and insights into business and sponsorships. The conversation emphasises the importance of empathy, motivation, and the belief that one person can make a difference in the world.Keith also explains the huge role Eddie played in former F1 world champion and all-round legend Michael Schumacher’s career, and regales us with some frankly wonderful stories from their friendship and business dealings – including the time they almost bought Playtech… [26:45 – 1:29:34]Choice quotes:"What would Eddie Jordan do?""It's a three-step plan.""He was a talent scout.""We cycled all over the world.""We were fucking doing it.""Eddie was the first person to give Michael Schumacher a drive."Keith O’Loughlin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keitholoughlin/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Eddie Jordan to our Michael Schumacher. No, hang on, that can’t be right.In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to keep creating content for an industry that probably thinks we disappeared years ago. Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. There is simply nobody better at what they do.The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/&nbsp;Follow the...

We kick off with Fintan and Jon talking about some things, then some other things; Fintan and Jon reflect on the year, discuss news highlights, and delve into the implications of privatisation in the UK. We also get into the importance of player retention in the industry and may even mention support from sponsors that make the podcast possible [0:00 – 25:08].Then we’re joined by author Rob Furber, to discuss his memoir 'The Gambler,' which intertwines his unique experiences in betting on unconventional events like Eurovision and reality TV with a personal love story. The discussion delves into the intricacies of TV betting, the influence of politics on Eurovision, and the challenges faced by new authors in the publishing world. Rob shares insights into his betting strategies, the impact of reviews on book success, and the potential for future projects, including a sequel and adaptation of his memoir [25:09 – 1:05:18].Rob Furber on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-furber-b2717916/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Terry Wogan to our Lordi.In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to keep creating content for an industry that probably thinks we disappeared years ago. Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. There is simply nobody better at what they do.The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/&nbsp;Follow the podcast on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-gambling-files-podcast/&nbsp;Sponsorship enquiries: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/contact/&nbsp;&nbsp;Get our newsletter: <a...

This week’s episode proper sees Jon and returning interim stand-in temporary co-host Melanie Ellis – of Northridge Law fame – get right into it. Well, Jon does as he has a rant about the new tax regime coming to the UK and the sheer arrogance of politicians in suggesting the gambling industry should be helping children out of poverty. Yes, poverty that was created by these very same politicians over decades, some of them directly. He’s angry. They probably talk about other stuff as well… [0:00 – 39:18]In the main conversation, Fintan and guest Steve Ruddock explore the distinctions between betting and gambling, emphasizing the legal implications of these terms as defined by the Commodities Exchange Act. Steve discusses how betting on predetermined events differs from creating games solely for gambling purposes, highlighting the nuances in legal definitions and their impact on the gaming industry. And Jon tells them both who Quentin Tarantino’s favourite crime writer is [39:19 – 1:21:55].Choice quotes: "There's no reason to roll dice other than to gamble on it, right?""The Packers are gonna play the Lions no matter what.""Those are different things."Steve Ruddock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-ruddock-23148138/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Debra Winger to our Bette Midler.In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. They’re the wind beneath the wings of some of the industry’s biggest names. &nbsp;Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to keep creating hit singles/karaoke favourites like ‘Wind Beneath My Wings’, and to support friends in need in lifelong relationships. And if you haven’t seen the movie Beaches, why haven’t you???Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. You know ICE, it’s the show where Bette Midler shows up at the end and realises her quiet friend has been everything in her life all along; and Debra Winger realises how much she really is valued. But I warn you, bring tissues. Not to ICE, to a screening of Beaches.The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/" rel="noopener...

Yep, it’s a special bonus episode, and it kicks off with Jon chatting with special interim stand-in temporary co-host Melanie Ellis of Northridge Law fame, and they somehow manage to not talk about tax in the UK [0:00 – 18:45]. No, they saved that for 238…Then Jon and Fintan meet Jonathan D Cohen, whose book Losing Big: America’s reckless bet on sports gambling is an incisive look at how things progressed post-PASPA – and how the US got crucial aspects really, really wrong. It’s not an anti-gambling book by any stretch, it’s a realistic look at how things could have been done, and the human cost of how they were actually done. We get into the issues caused by insufficient or poorly thought-out regulations, a lack of accountability for regulators, the adversarial relationship that is often there between businesses and regulators, and much more. It’s a good, bonus listen. Hey, it’s Christmas soon and we are just thinking of you [18:46 – 1:13:15]. Jonathan Cohen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cohen-6219b989/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Debra Winger to our Bette Midler.In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. They’re the wind beneath the wings of some of the industry’s biggest names. &nbsp;Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to keep creating hit singles/karaoke favourites like ‘Wind Beneath My Wings’, and to support friends in need in lifelong relationships. And if you haven’t seen the movie Beaches, why haven’t you???Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. You know ICE, it’s the show where Bette Midler shows up at the end and realises her quiet friend has been everything in her life all along; and Debra Winger realises how much she really is valued. But I warn you, bring tissues. Not to ICE, the a screening of Beaches.&nbsp;The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

We kick off with Jon and Fintan discussing a bit of everything, with some exasperation reserved for past events in Vegas where there were zero arrests despite money laundering and lax AML on a grand scale, allegedly; Fintan also reminisces about his time on a building site, when he actually worked for a living [0:00 – 19:13].Then we meet star guest John Caldwell of i3Soft, a company building casino software and games that they say will change the way people play for money. Unfortunately for John, he also worked for Atlantic Records at a key point in Jon’s life, managing a band Jon likes very much, so you know that also gets into the conversation. We discuss playing Pop-A-Shot against Living Colour, and John’s crazy origin story of his path to the gambling industry. It’s well worth a listen, and a reminder of how many fantastic personalities we have in this industry [19:14 – 1:10:09].&nbsp;Choice quotes: "I was actually killing members of Living Colour at Pop-A-Shot.""I was destroying, destroying Will Calhoun."John Caldwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-caldwell-5909791/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Rocky IV to our No Retreat, No Surrender.In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. If I were in a beatdown in some back alley bar, you bet your sweet tush I’d want EveryMatrix watching my back. Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us to punch baddies in the face repeatedly, then make a pithy one-liner while looking very cool indeed.Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. You know ICE, it’s the show where everybody is there and we all have a big rumble at the end. I’m kidding, I’m kidding…The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/&nbsp;Follow the podcast on LinkedIn: <a...

We kick off with one of those ‘allsorts’ conversations between Fintan and Jon, and this one comes with a warning – nothing graphic is covered, but a cyst being lanced is discussed. Or should that be disgust? Either-or. [0:00 – 24:56]Then, we welcome another author on to the podcast, with a book submitted to the Gambling Book Awards. Alex Duff is our guest, to discuss his terrific book 'Smart Money: The Fall and Rise of Brentford FC'. The conversation explores Brentford's unique journey in football, the impact of data analytics and gambling on the club's success, and the rivalry between key figures Matthew Benham and Tony Bloom. The hosts delve into the Moneyball approach in football, emphasizing the importance of finding value in players and maximizing their potential. The episode concludes with reflections on the future of Brentford FC and the broader implications of their story in the world of sports [24:57 – 1:09:18].Choice quotes:"Brentford's success is down to being smart.""It's a tribute to that sort of thinking.""I think it basically comes down to money."Alex Duff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-duff-35489133/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Top Gun to our Iron Eagle.&nbsp;In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. If I had to choose my wingman, and it was between an ageing Lou Gossett Jr and EveryMatrix’s Val Kilmer/Iceman, I’m choosing Val every time. No disrespect to Lou, but he really phoned Iron Eagle in.&nbsp;Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us make things that are like pulling serious Gs to lose enemy bogies. Yeah, you heard me.Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. Yeah, the show where we will all smother ourselves in baby oil before we play beach volleyball. WHOO!The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/&nbsp;Follow the...

Jon and Fintan get into the recent appearance by the BGC’s Grainne Hurst in front of British Parliament, and Jon is unusually full of praise and has an idea that the casino industry should be uniting to change the narrative… Among other things, of course, including Fintan’s executive slouch, being a supple panther and much much more, including of course our delicious sponsors, the always-sexy EveryMatrix; the permanently virile Optimove; and the expo tyrannosaurs Clarion Gaming [0:00 – 24:01]. Then we get into it (I say we, but it’s just Jon) with SBRnet President Neil Schwartz, a first-time guest. We dive deep into the world of sports fandom data, discussing everything from the US sports gambling landscape to the massive economic ripples created by major global events.We discuss: Why “sports fandom” is a better growth lever than chasing promosThe US sports betting picture through a fan-data lensHow mega-events (hello, World Cup) ripple into betting and team strategyWhat an annual national survey of fans actually measures — and how operators/teams use itPractical ways to turn fan insights into better product, CRM and media planning.And much more, of course. [24:02 – 1:23:49] Neil Schwartz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-schwartz-96a4816/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Top Gun to our Iron Eagle.In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. If I had to choose my wingman, and it was between an ageing Lou Gossett Jr and EveryMatrix’s Val Kilmer/Iceman, I’m choosing Val every time. No disrespect to Lou, but he really phoned Iron Eagle in.Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us make things that are like pulling serious Gs to lose enemy bogies. Yeah, you heard me.Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. Yeah, the show where we will all smother ourselves in baby oil before we play beach volleyball. WHOO!The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: <a...

We kick off with the usual shenanigans from Fintan and Jon, mostly Fintan though as Jon is generally the voice of reason here [0:00 – 19:00]. Then we come to our second guest of the Gambling Book Awards era (www.gamblingbookawards.com). The magnificent Peter Venison shares his experiences working with the legendary Sol Kerzner, a titan in the hospitality and gambling industries. Peter’s experiences led to him writing the book Sol: My Friend and Adversary, which came out in early 2025. The discussion covers Kerzner's visionary approach to building resorts, the evolution of the gambling landscape in South Africa, and the cultural and social changes during that era.Venison reflects on the challenges and successes of creating Sun City, the marketing strategies employed, and the impact of Nelson Mandela on the industry. The conversation concludes with insights into Venison's excellent memoir about Kerzner and the book's reception, and possibly the greatest tax wheeze we have ever heard of [19:01 – 1:18:43].&nbsp;Choice quote: "We were agents of change."Peter Venison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-venison-b4849630/As ever, we thank all of our sponsors for their vibrant and excellent support. They are truly the Mad Max: Fury Road, to our Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. In no particular order they are:&nbsp; the mighty EveryMatrix – the industry go-to for sportsbook platforms and data feeds. EveryMatrix’s coverage is so damn good, they’re gaining tier-1 operators all the time. If I had to fight to the death in a weird, muddy amphitheatre in a dystopian future, I’d want these guys with me.Optimove, who turn customer data into something special, with tools that make businesses just plain work better. Optimove, your support helps us make things that are like the sacred gasoline –&nbsp;of DATA!!! Then of course there is Clarion Gaming, providers of the magnificent ICE expo (January ’26 in Barcelona) and iGB Live! in London. Yeah, the show where there is that guy shooting all fire out the end of his guitar which he’s playing on the roof of a truck. We love you guys infinity plus one. The Gambling Files podcast delves into the business side of the betting world. Each week, join Jon Bruford and Fintan Costello as they discuss current hot topics with world-leading gambling experts.Website: https://www.thegamblingfiles.com/Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3A57jkRSubscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4cs6ReF&nbsp;Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGamblingFilesPodcast&nbsp;Fintan Costello on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fintancostello/&nbsp;Jon Bruford on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-bruford-84346636/&nbsp;Follow the podcast on LinkedIn: <a...