Listener Tales 107: You've got probed!

In today’s March Bonus Episode, Ash & Alaina sit down to unpack Reality Check: Inside America’s Next Top Model, the new documentary that takes a long, hard look at ANTM, the world of reality TV, and the price paid by young contestants chasing swift fame. This isn’t a criminal case  but it is Morbid: power dynamics, exploitation, public scrutiny, looking back with adult hindsight… so, yeah, we had to discuss it!  Join in the conversation on socials by clicking the episode post on MORBID Instagram! What parts of this documentary left your jaw on the floor? Get ready for next month's Book Club Bonus Episode by reading Postmortem by Patricia Cornwell wherever books are sold! We are THRILLED to have Chef Reilly joining us on the day his book A Little Bit Extra comes out (3/31/26) to discuss all things Scarpetta! Preorder his book! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Weirdos! Get ready to get abducted by this month's batch of listener tales brought to you By you FOR  you and ALL ABOUT YOU! This month Listeners are giving the deets of encounters from visitors from other planets, with a few ghostly and all-out-jumpscare stories! Because of  the MASSIVE blizzard, we're kicking it OG style, with audio only and sans Nicholas, but fret not!! Both will be coming back in March!  If you’ve got a listener tale please send it to DEB by emailing us at  [email protected] with “Listener Tales” somewhere in the subject line- and if you share pictures- please let us know if we can share them with fellow weirdos! :) Mentions: Follow Sarah James on TikTok! Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the news cycle, an elderly woman attempting to poison her husband would have garnered a pretty small amount of attention from the press, then faded away when a larger story came along. But it didn’t take long for the press to learn that the poisoning of Melissa Ann Shepard's new husband wasn't  the first time she had been suspected or convicted of attempted murder. In fact, Melissa Ann Shepard had a criminal history in two countries that went back decades, including many crimes that were very similar to the one she had just perpetrated only with a much worse outcome. Recommendations Follow @itsmartymiller on TikTok   References As It Happens. 2016. Victim questions release of notorious Internet Black Widow. March 16. Accessed May 14, 2024. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-tuesday-edition-1.3492260/victim-questions-release-of-notorious-internet-black-widow-she-ll-never-change-1.3492579. Associated Press. 2005. "'Black Widow' pleads guilty." Kingston Whig-Standard, March 15: 2005. Canadian Press. 2013. "'Black Widow' pleads guilty to drugging husband's coffee days after wedding." Globe and Mail, June 11. —. 2016. "Internet black widow off the hook." Hamilton Spectator, December 23: 10. —. 2013. "'Black Widow' gets 3 1/2 years for drugging husband." Toronto Star, June 12. —. 2013. "Alleged victim of 'Black Widow' holds no ill will as trial set to start." Windsor Star, June 7: 35. 2012. The Fifth Estate: The Widow's Web. Television. Directed by CBC News. Performed by CBC News. Elash, Anita. 2012. Police were asked to warn husband of 'Internet Black Widow'. October 5. Accessed May 15, 2024. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/police-were-asked-to-warn-husband-of-internet-black-widow-1.1163836. L'Heureux, Catie. 2016. "The real-life Gone Girl is 80, and terrifying." The Cut, April 13. McMahon, Tamsin. 2005. "Robert Friedrich was alive and well, then he met this woman." Kingston Whig-Standard, April 9: 1. O'Connor, Joe. 2012. "Romancing the 'Black Widow' ." National Post, October 3: 1. Sherren, Reg. 2013. "Internet Black Widow 'will do it again,' says former husband." CBC News, September 16. Starnes, Richard. 2005. "'Black widow' arrested in Florida." Ottawa Citizen, January 13: 7. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Since the late nineteenth century, amusement parks have been providing countless hours of enjoyment for people all around the world. Often driven by the latest technology and advances in mechanical engineering, the thrill rides at parks like Disney Land, Great America, and other independent parks offer a controlled environment to experience terror and excitement. While these rides, and the parks in general, are very safe and held to strict safety standards, there are times when the unthinkable happens—a cable snaps, a safety harness breaks—and the once safe ride becomes a nightmare for passengers. Far more often than not, tragic amusement park accidents are the result of human foolishness or, far less often, operator error. But other times, they are a bizarre fluke; a one in a million mechanical problem no one saw coming. Either way, the results can be shocking, horrifying, and even deadly.Recommendations:Jawsh on tikTok ReferencesAdler, Eric, and Katy Bergen. 2016. "Questions swirl as grief befalls family of boy killed on slide." Wichita Eagle, August 9: 1.Associated Press. 2016. "Slide complaints surface." Iola Register (Iola, KS), August 10: 2.Bella, Timothy. 2019. "How a freak accident happens." Esquire, January 29.Boston Globe. 1923. "Couple injured on Derby Racer." Boston Globe, May 31: 14.Brennan v. Ocean View Amusement Company. 1935. Unknown (Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, January 16).Daily Item. 1911. "Fatal accident on Revere Beach roller coaster." Daily Item (Lynn, MA), June 9: 19.—. 1911. "Fatally hurt on roller coaster." Daily Item (Lynn, MA), May 22: 9.Merrill, Jamie. 2015. "The funfair disaster that Britain forgot." The Independent on Sunday, June 7.Omaha Evening Bee-News. 1930. "Ban coaster after plunge kills four." Omaha Evening Bee-News, July 25: 1.—. 1930. "Survivor tells story of tragedy." Omaha Evening Bee-News, July 25: 2.O'Neil, Elise. 2023. Benson's almost forgotten amusement park. July 27. Accessed February 4, 2026. https://douglascohistory.org/9743-2/.Pound, Cath. 2022. The scandalous roots of the amusement park. August 21. Accessed February 3, 2026. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220818-the-surprisingly-scandalous-origins-of-disneyland.Saner, Emine. 2024. "The rollercoaster I was on hurtled backwards and crashed." The Guardian, September 23.Standard-Times. 1922. "New Bedford man, thrown from roller coaster, on danger list." Standard-Times (New Bedford, MA), September 12: 1.The Times. 1973. "Big dipper a death trap, Crown says." The Times, November 6.—. 1973. "Engineer says many parts of big dipper were unsafe." The Times, March 2.—. 1972. "Two teenage boys and a girl killed in Battersea big dipper crash." The Times, May 5.Vockrodt, Steve. 2018. "The making of Schlitterbahn’s Verrückt water slide: Too much, too fast? ." Kansas City Star, April 3.Yesterday's America. n.d. The early history of theme parks in America. Accessed February 4, 2026. https://yesterdaysamerica.com/the-early-history-of-theme-parks-in-america/.  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the summer of 1998, eighty-two-year-old New York socialite Irene Silverman disappeared from her Manhattan townhouse without a trace. Silverman’s friends were immediately concerned, as it was completely out of character for Irene to leave town without telling anyone. Coincidentally, on the same day Irene Silverman disappeared, authorities in New York arrested Sante Kimes and her son, Kenny, on a charge of check fraud. Unbeknownst to investigators, these two events were directly linked.In the wake of the arrest of Kimes and her son, investigators discovered a number of links between the mother and son con artists and Irene Silverman that would not only lead to the discovery of Silverman’s body, but also to a years’ long crime spree that included everything from check fraud and impersonation to arson and murder. In the annals of American crime, it’s rare to find a series of violent crimes committed by a woman. And among those women, it is rarer still to find one so brutal, cunning, and manipulative as Sante Kimes.ReferencesAssociated Press. 1985. "Couple charged with slavery." The Union (Grass Valley, CA), August 6: 4.Bashinsky, Ruth, and Larry Sutton. 1998. "She lived in the present, belebrated ballet past." Daily News (New York, NY), July 8: 2.Finkelstein, Katherine. 2000. "Mother and son are given life sentences." New York Times, June 28.Kirsta, Alix. 1999. "The lady vanishes." The Guardian, November 20.Kocieniewski, David. 1998. "Deed ceding widow's house to suspects is found, police say." New York Times, July 25.NBC News. 2025. "The devil wore white." Dateline, January 1.Rohde, David. 1998. "2 now face murder charge in widow's disappearance." New York Times, December 17.—. 2000. "Jury hears a murder defendant's outburst; a woman screams for fairness." New York Times, April 29.Rohde, David, and Julian Barnes. 2000. "Without a body, murder case of widow relies on circumstantial evidence." New York Times, May 16.Sante Kimes v. United States. 1989. 86-1267 (District of Columbia Court of Appeals, October 31).Walker, Kent. 2001. Son of a Grifter: The Twisted Tale of Sante and Kenny Kimes, the Most Notorious Con Artists in America. New York, NY: William Morrow.  Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

(Part 3 of 3) On the morning of February 8, 1983, a plumber working in London’s Muswell Hill neighbor opened a drainage cover behind a Cranley Gardens apartment building and made a horrific discovery—the drain was blocked by pieces of bone and human tissue. Upon investigation, detectives traced the blockage back to one apartment in the building, where additional evidence suggested things were far worse than they’d initially thought.When the occupant of the apartment, Dennis Nilsen, was confronted with the human remains, he began telling investigators a shocking story and when he was finished, Nilsen had confessed to murdering and dismembering at fifteen men over the course of five years. In the annals of British crime, Dennis Nilsen ranks among the worst serial killers the country has ever seen, not only because of the number of people he killed, but also the method of disposal and the motive.  Mentioned in the EpisodeRead Jay Manuel’s Fictional book inspired by ANTM The Wig, The Bitch & The Meltdown ReferencesBarlass, Tim, and Robert Mendick. 2006. "Killer: This was my first victim." Evening Standard (London, UK), November 9: 1.Davies, Nick. 1983. "A nice person, says the man who escaped." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'claimed to have no tears for victims, bereaved, or himself'." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'enjoyed power of his victims'." The Guardian, November 1: 4.—. 1983. "Nilsen tells of horror and shame at killings." The Guardian, October 28: 2.Henry, Ian. 1983. "'My fury if visitors didn't listen to me'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 27: 3.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'has admitted 15 or 16 killings'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 25: 3.Liverpool Echo. 1983. "London body: Man in court." Liverpool Echo, February 12: 1.Masters, Brian. 1985. Killing for Company: The Case of Dennis Nilsen. London, UK: J. Cape.McMillan, Greg. 1980. "Family scours Britain for missing son." Hamilton Spectator (Hamilton, ON), January 31: 10.Murphy, Fin. 2021. "I struck up a friendship with serial killer Dennis Nilsen. Then I edited his memoirs." Vice, January 29.Nicholson-Lord, David. 1983. "Doctor tells jury of Nlsen's false-self." The Times, October 28: 1.—. 1983. "Nilsen given 25-year sentence." The Times, November 5: 1.Tatchell, Peter. 2022. Police failed Dennis Nilsen’s victims. Decades later, little has changed. January 24. Accessed September 15, 2025. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/police-dennis-nilsen-victims-homophobic-murders.The Guardian. 1983. "State of mind issue put to Nilsen jury." The Guardian, November 3: 3.The Times. 1983. "Nilsen strangled, cut up and burnt men he met in pubs, jury told." The Times, October 25: 1.—. 1984. "Prisoners live in fear of Nilsen." The Times, June 21: 3. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Part 2 of 3) On the morning of February 8, 1983, a plumber working in London’s Muswell Hill neighbor opened a drainage cover behind a Cranley Gardens apartment building and made a horrific discovery—the drain was blocked by pieces of bone and human tissue. Upon investigation, detectives traced the blockage back to one apartment in the building, where additional evidence suggested things were far worse than they’d initially thought.When the occupant of the apartment, Dennis Nilsen, was confronted with the human remains, he began telling investigators a shocking story and when he was finished, Nilsen had confessed to murdering and dismembering at fifteen men over the course of five years. In the annals of British crime, Dennis Nilsen ranks among the worst serial killers the country has ever seen, not only because of the number of people he killed, but also the method of disposal and the motive.  Mentioned in the episode: Book Counter DecorReferencesBarlass, Tim, and Robert Mendick. 2006. "Killer: This was my first victim." Evening Standard (London, UK), November 9: 1.Davies, Nick. 1983. "A nice person, says the man who escaped." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'claimed to have no tears for victims, bereaved, or himself'." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'enjoyed power of his victims'." The Guardian, November 1: 4.—. 1983. "Nilsen tells of horror and shame at killings." The Guardian, October 28: 2.Henry, Ian. 1983. "'My fury if visitors didn't listen to me'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 27: 3.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'has admitted 15 or 16 killings'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 25: 3.Liverpool Echo. 1983. "London body: Man in court." Liverpool Echo, February 12: 1.Masters, Brian. 1985. Killing for Company: The Case of Dennis Nilsen. London, UK: J. Cape.McMillan, Greg. 1980. "Family scours Britain for missing son." Hamilton Spectator (Hamilton, ON), January 31: 10.Murphy, Fin. 2021. "I struck up a friendship with serial killer Dennis Nilsen. Then I edited his memoirs." Vice, January 29.Nicholson-Lord, David. 1983. "Doctor tells jury of Nlsen's false-self." The Times, October 28: 1.—. 1983. "Nilsen given 25-year sentence." The Times, November 5: 1.Tatchell, Peter. 2022. Police failed Dennis Nilsen’s victims. Decades later, little has changed. January 24. Accessed September 15, 2025. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/police-dennis-nilsen-victims-homophobic-murders.The Guardian. 1983. "State of mind issue put to Nilsen jury." The Guardian, November 3: 3.The Times. 1983. "Nilsen strangled, cut up and burnt men he met in pubs, jury told." The Times, October 25: 1.—. 1984. "Prisoners live in fear of Nilsen." The Times, June 21: 3. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On the morning of February 8, 1983, a plumber working in London’s Muswell Hill neighbor opened a drainage cover behind a Cranley Gardens apartment building and made a horrific discovery—the drain was blocked by pieces of bone and human tissue. Upon investigation, detectives traced the blockage back to one apartment in the building, where additional evidence suggested things were far worse than they’d initially thought.When the occupant of the apartment, Dennis Nilsen, was confronted with the human remains, he began telling investigators a shocking story and when he was finished, Nilsen had confessed to murdering and dismembering at fifteen men over the course of five years. In the annals of British crime, Dennis Nilsen ranks among the worst serial killers the country has ever seen, not only because of the number of people he killed, but also the method of disposal and the motive.  Want to help out the people of Minneapolis? Click here to help small business owners impacted by current events!ReferencesBarlass, Tim, and Robert Mendick. 2006. "Killer: This was my first victim." Evening Standard (London, UK), November 9: 1.Davies, Nick. 1983. "A nice person, says the man who escaped." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'claimed to have no tears for victims, bereaved, or himself'." The Guardian, October 26: 5.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'enjoyed power of his victims'." The Guardian, November 1: 4.—. 1983. "Nilsen tells of horror and shame at killings." The Guardian, October 28: 2.Henry, Ian. 1983. "'My fury if visitors didn't listen to me'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 27: 3.—. 1983. "Nilsen 'has admitted 15 or 16 killings'." Daily Telegraph (London, UK), October 25: 3.Liverpool Echo. 1983. "London body: Man in court." Liverpool Echo, February 12: 1.Masters, Brian. 1985. Killing for Company: The Case of Dennis Nilsen. London, UK: J. Cape.McMillan, Greg. 1980. "Family scours Britain for missing son." Hamilton Spectator (Hamilton, ON), January 31: 10.Murphy, Fin. 2021. "I struck up a friendship with serial killer Dennis Nilsen. Then I edited his memoirs." Vice, January 29.Nicholson-Lord, David. 1983. "Doctor tells jury of Nlsen's false-self." The Times, October 28: 1.—. 1983. "Nilsen given 25-year sentence." The Times, November 5: 1.Tatchell, Peter. 2022. Police failed Dennis Nilsen’s victims. Decades later, little has changed. January 24. Accessed September 15, 2025. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/police-dennis-nilsen-victims-homophobic-murders.The Guardian. 1983. "State of mind issue put to Nilsen jury." The Guardian, November 3: 3.The Times. 1983. "Nilsen strangled, cut up and burnt men he met in pubs, jury told." The Times, October 25: 1.—. 1984. "Prisoners live in fear of Nilsen." The Times, June 21: 3. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the early hours of March 3, 1993, someone snuck into the Maryland home of Millie Horn, where she lived with her disabled eight-year-old son, Trevor, and his nurse, Janice Saunders. After shooting both women in the head multiple times, the intruder smothered Trevor Horn to death, then quietly left the house. Hours later, the bodies of all three were discovered by Millie’s sister, who stepped by to check on them.Almost immediately, suspicion fell on Millie Horn’s ex-husband, Lawrence, who lived thousands of miles away in California, but with whom she’d spoken just hours before the murders occurred. In time, investigators were able to establish a financial motive, linking Lawrence Horn to the murders, yet they were unable to place Horn in Maryland when the murders occurred. Ultimately, Lawrence Horn would be tried and convicted for all three murders, but by that time, he wasn’t sole perpetrator of the crime. And when prosecutors were finally able to pin down the men responsible for the deaths, it turned out the killers received guidance from a very surprising source.Recommendations:Phantasma By Kaylie SmithHappy Place By Emily HenryReferencesAssociated Press. 1993. "Man says he wasn't involved in slaying of ex-wife and son." Star-Democrat (Easton, MD), March 10: 5.Baltimore Sun. 1993. "Murder suspect denies threatening former wife." Baltimore Sun, April 9: 27.Brooke, James. 1996. "Lawsuit tests lethal power of words." New York Times, February 14.Hermann, Peter. 1994. "Father arrested in 3 murders." Baltimore Sun, July 21: 21.James Edward Perry v. State of Maryland. 2002. 0667, Sept. Term, 2001 (Court of Special Appeals of Maryland, November 7).James Edward Perry v. State of Maryland. 1996. 119, Sept. Term, 1995 (Court of Appeals of Maryland, December 16).Smolla, Rodney. 1999. Deliberate Intent: A Lawyer Tells the True Story of Murder by the Book. New York, NY: Crown.Sullivan, Kevin. 1994. "Accused went from glamour of Motown to a life of modest means." Washington Post, July 20.Vick, Karl. 1996. "Horn convicted for three murders." Washingotn Post, May 4: 1. Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Weirdos!! It's here! the second deep dive into the twisted world of the Twilight Saga! Grab your brown-tinted filters and emotional support glitter, because Ash and Alaina are back in Forks for a full-throttle deep dive into New Moon. For this month’s BONUS EPISODE we’re unpacking Edward’s dramatic exit, Bella’s months-long depression montage (hello, spinning seasons), and the introduction of a jort-wearing werewolf jamborees: Jacob Black. We debate whether ghost Edward is helpful or wildly unhinged, and try to make sense of the Volturi’s whole vibe!  There’s chaos, hot takes, and Bella imitations that will make you howl!  Light a candle, stare moodily out a window, and join us, because the angst is real, the wolves are howling, and we’re all #TeamMessy! 🖤 Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022)Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023)Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash KelleyListener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra LallyListener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.