Helping a Loved One with Schizophrenia Treating OCD! My Hands Might Be Contaminated! How To Mend an Angry, Broken Heart The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Joel asks: How can we use TEAM CBT to help a patient or loved one struggling with schizophrenia? Jean asks: Since CBT won't work with OCD, should we use exposure or the Hidden Emotion Technique instead? Jim asks: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain?  And here are the answers. Question #1  Dear Dr Burns, I learned from you that the foundational principle of CBT is that our emotions, and ultimately our behaviors, are rooted in thoughts or beliefs. Are there emotional and/or behavioral disorders (perhaps like schizophrenia) that are rooted in abnormal neurobiological brain pathologies, rather than in distorted cognitions or self-defeating beliefs? And if so, is TEAM CBT relevant to helping those suffering from these "psychoses"?  With much gratitude, respect, and affection, Joel Question #2 Dear Dr. Burns: I'm curious if you have thoughts about the problem of talking back to the obsessive thoughts in OCD.  Thank you, Jean Question #3 Dear Dr. Burns: When someone has objectively hurt you, like your partner has had an affair, how do you get over that pain?  I am not having thoughts that I did anything wrong, or there is something the matter with me, I feel sad, hurt and confused and angry. Jim Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the live and unedited follow-up session with Madeleine, a loving mother who became terrified when she realized that her oldest beloved daughter might be in mortal danger during her hear abroad while in college.  Part 3 of 3 We were a bit rushed near the end of M = Methods in Part 2 because of a mistake that I (David) made. I forgot that we had extended this webinar by 30 minutes, so we wouldn't be rushed at the end, so I wrongly concluded we were running out of time when we weren't! In order to complete our work, we scheduled Part 3 several weeks later to do the following critical pieces of the work with Madeleine. Additional work with the Externalization of Voices to make sure she could knock all of her self-critical thoughts out of the park. Cognitive Flooding, using the magazine article she was triggered by to prompt the anxiety. The idea is to make yourself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until the anxiety and panic eventually loses its punch and becomes boring. This will be one of the first times we have illustrated this technique live in a video-recorded session. Any other loose ends that may have emerged since our first session with the wonderful Madeleine! We did some cognitive flooding, urging Madeleine to close her eyes and describe her most terrifying fantasy involving her daughter's abduction by a sociopathy. We encourage her to make herself as anxious as possible, and within minutes she was at 100% and sobbing. Then we did some "memory" rescripting as we had promised her at the start, and part way through there was an unexpected surge of anger, that seemed to come from out of the blue, although the circumstances of the fantasy were clearly more than enough to trigger rage.  Using the technique called "Affect Bridging," I asker her whether the anger she was now feeling might trace back to some earlier traumatic event in her life, perhaps when she was young, and this was confirmed. She described a profoundly troubling indecent involve her mother and dad shortly before they got divorced.  There was a tremendous amount of emotion packed into today's follow-up session, almost non-stop, in fact. We look forward to seeing Madeleine's end-of-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Jill and David assigned follow-up homework for her, including 15 minutes per day reading the terrifying article from People Magazine that had initially triggered her in the beauty salon.  We want to thank you, Madeleine for your courage in being so open and real, and for giving us all a unique opportunity for some incredible learning, and also the chance to get to know you at a deep a genuine level! Thanks for listening to these three podcasts. We hope you enjoyed them and learned something useful and helpful, especially if you've also been struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, or if you're a mental health professional wanting to take a deeper dive in to how TEAM CBT can sometimes produce extremely rapid healing, even from severe feelings of depression, anxiety, and despair.  Madeleine, Jill, Rhonda, and David Following the session, Madeleine sent us the following feedback on the session via email: Hi Jill and David, Completed after session yesterday, but in my state of emotional fatigue, forgot to hit send! Brief Mood Survey after session: Depression: 3 / 20 (minimal) Suicidal urges: 0 / 12 (none) Anxiety: 8 / 20 (mildly elevated) Anger: 9 / 20 (mild/moderately elevated) Happiness: 12 / 20 (low) Relationship Satisfaction: 29 / 30 (nearly perfect) Evaluation of Therapy Session Empathy: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Helpfulness: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Satisfaction: 8 / 8 (perfect score)  Commitment: 8 /8 (perfect score) Neg feelings: 4 (high, range = 0- 4) Difficulties with Q: 2 (medium, range = 0- 4) What did you like the Least: exposure was pain. It feels very heavy and exhausting. And i understand, necessary to healing. What did you like the Most: David's "bridging" my affect states to discover my rage source. Jill's keeping us on track and making connection from my present worry about daughter's safety to past feelings of betrayal, losing trust, and resulting anger in my dad, a trusted figure. You both hit the nail on the head so many times in the session to uncover the deeper, ugly, messy, dark pools that lie within me i choose to keep safely sealed tight and out of the light. Postscript: I just completed day 1 of exposure in re reading the awful article. All the anxiety and fear resurfaced along with new feelings of revenge, determination, appreciation for the authors who are perhaps trying to help the family by publishing this. Ick. Best Regards, Madeleine  Again, a big thanks to you Madeleine, and we will watch closely as you continue your courageous daily exposure work, and look forward to the day when you have won this battle!  Warmly, david

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the exciting conclusion of our work with Madeleine, a loving mother who fears that her eldest daughter might be in mortal danger during her year abroad. Last week, you heard about the T = Testing and E = Empathy phase of the live work with Madeleine, a mother feeling intense panic and helplessness and inadequacy because she fears that her daughter could be in grave danger of abduction and worse. This week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, using the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to see if we can melt away her resistance to change. You can see the Emotions table of the Daily Mood Log Madeleine during the Magic Dial portion of the session if you Click Here As you can see, she wanted to reduce her negative feelings somewhat, but thought she still wanted to keep them fairly elevated, since she still sensed that her daughter might be in real danger, and clearly did not want to abandon her. This is one of the significant refinements in TEAM CBT. First, we want to bring the patient's resistance to full conscious awareness. Second, we want patients to full grasp that their negative thoughts and feelings do NOT result from some "defect" or "mental disorder," but rather from what is most beautiful and awesome about them as human beings. After the Magic Button, David and Jill went on to the final, M = Methods portion of the TEAM session, using tools such as Identify and Explain the Distortions, the Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices, with the Acceptance Paradox, the Self-Defense Paradigm, and the CAT (Counter-Attack Technique). We will, of course, do numerous role reversals to see if we can get Madeleine to a "huge" victory over her many distorted thoughts. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared at the end of the session if you Click Here As you can see, the reductions in negative feelings were dramatic, but in several areas (anxiety, inadequacy, frustration and anger), Madeleine's negative feelings were still minimally elevated. That is one of the reasons we decided to schedule an additional session together several weeks later to see if we could intensify Madeleine's responses to her negative thoughts, and hopefully due some Cognitive Flooding to complete her "treatment." At the end of these show notes, you will find an email from Madeleine after the session that includes her end-of-session scores on the BMS and EOTS. You will also see comments submitted by many participants who attended the webinar live. This email below from Madeleine following the session shows her end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey as well as the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of her session with Jill and David. Hi David, Yes, here are my BMS & ETS score totals after the extended session. Please let me know if you have any questions. A relapse prevention session would be nice; however, I hesitate to accept your offer as you all are so busy. Please know that I am practicing the PTs and keeping the NTs in check for now. Thank you again a million times over😊. Yes, Feel free to use the recording however you like. Like I said, it's the least I can do to contribute to your generous and vitally important work. You are both very inspiring in so many ways. Much gratitude, Madeleine Brief Mood Survey (BMS) Depressed 0 / 20 (complete elimination of depression) Suicidal 0 / 12 Anxious 2 / 20 (near-complete elimination of anxiety) Angry 0 / 20 PF 36 / 40 (dramatic improvement in Positive Feelings) RS 29 / 30 (large improvement in Relationship Satisfaction) Evaluation of Therapy Session (ETS) Empathy 20 / 20 (perfect) Helpfulness 20 / 20 (perfect) Satisfaction 8 / 8 (perfect) Commitment 8 / 8 (perfect) Neg feelings 1 (0 – 4) (uncomfortable at times!) Difficulties w/ answering the questions honestly 0 (0 – 4) (no difficulties) What did you like the least? Crying and blathering in front of all those people. Fortunately, I wasn't able to see any faces except yours😉 What did you like the most? Jill's "smooth as silk" empathy skills, David's laser sharp questions, Jill's rephrasing & untangling of the PT to "unlikely," David's having me write powerful PR stuff down, Jill & David's EOV - so strong, David counterattacking my neg thoughts with "sociopath," Jill's double std delivered in a very gentle way. I never felt rushed! Feedback for Madeleine from the chat during the session Comments for Madeline: Madeline!!! I want you as a therapist. Your ability to show how to feel and describe the feel is courageous and admirable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing Madeline, I can completely relate with you as a mother when we worry and has no control on their actions Definitely relate to Madeleine and appreciate her vulnerability. Thank you for your transparency, Madeleine. We appreciate it and can empathize I totally relate. My children are 30 and 32, I parented in the 90"s;  i was trying to break the abuse cycle, so i missed nurturing their emotions and building their self esteem. My children give me so much grace and say how much they love watching me as a grandparent. I am so proud of the grandmother I am!!!! I am so grateful to be a part of their journey and blessed to have a second chance at creating that safe space for all of them. wow.  this event really open up the deeper pain in your life.  Feel honored that you are opening up to us. I'm so much appreciating Madeleine's being vulnerable and her sweetness and maternal care/nurturance and how David and Jill are working with her.  Helpful learning experience.  Thank you all. Thank you Madeline! It was brave and kind of you to share your story for today's demo!! Shows she is courageous n strong woman I am in awe over how Madeleine's resistance to looking at inadequacy actually brought out the most amazing positives and core values. Beautiful! I also just got the chills She is great mother She is caring person cares for others Madeleine is so incredibly courageous sharing her story here being so vulnerable too I appreciate how real this is and thank you all for the work you do for helping Madeleine through this and for providing  this very inspirational training :) As a mother and also deep empath, much of what she is sharing definitely resonates.  I hope she's able to continue working with her struggles and strengths to heal and feel better sooner than later 💗 Madeleine, it means so much to hear you. I was in trouble with an abusive boyfriend when I was college aged. I would have given anything to have my mother give me support at that time. I felt completely alone navigating the relationship and unable to get out. I needed an "adult in the room". Just hearing and seeing you right now is huge for me. Your daughters are lucky to have you! It's clear that you have their back and I'm sure they know it. I feel like you bring your whole heart to being a mother, truly beautiful and awesome! Thank you so much for volunteering today. Hi Madelyn, I'm also a mother like you. I am a sensitive person like you and worry about how evil the world is. I worry for my daughter's future. My daughter has a beautiful sensitive, innocent soul. The fact that we feel this way shows that we are kind emphatic people. The only way not to suffer about these issues is to be a sociopath, to be part of the satanic community that is responsible for the ugliness in the world. I don't want to be part of this evil community. It is our political systems responsibility to spread the stoic values that make just, reason/logic driven people, brave, kind and educated driven people. As for myself, I'm proud of who I am and find peace and comfort in studying stoicism. I believe that if we all learned about stoicism our world would be a much better place. And there's just as many Creeps and Sociopaths in your hometown as abroad. What's increasing her safety is knowing she has an open line of communication to her mom. That kind of girl is not such a target. Creeps are looking for girls without strong roots, without "backup". Girls with a a major insecurity to fill. Your type of parenting is exactly what's made her safer. Just to add to externalization of voices if we're allowed or supposed to! In case Madeline sees this chat, I feel compelled to share that I studied abroad in the spring semester 1998, in Jerusalem at Hebrew University.  I turned 21 that semester (as did my group of new friends).  Hands down it was the most formative and important experience of my life to build trust in myself, feeling able to navigate the unexpected, land somewhere totally new and make new friends and figure things out.  My worried mother heard all kinds of yucky things in the news that was happening there (things that I never saw).  We navigated our safety, traveled on weekends and breaks.  And since, I have regularly offered the recommendation, both solicited and unsolicited, about the incredible merits of studying abroad,  Of course, our mama-bear hearts will be called to protect our babies.  And, sounds like your girl is gritty and brave, open to new experiences, adventurous, and eager to experience life! Madeline's empathy and compassion and  counterattack stating "I taught her to see the Beauty in the world "is profound and amazing and reverberates for coaching and self empathy! Wonderful Madeline, David and Jill! Thank you Madeleine for being so vulnerable, honest, and open to aid our learning.  SO touching and relatable. M's standard for herself and parents is so very high and unattainable! She is doing way more than most by just caring this much.

Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present one of our favorite podcast topics—live work with a real human being who is suffering. We will be working with Madeleine, a woman who read a disturbing article while at the hairdresser and freaked out, sensing that one of her daughters might be in mortal danger. This live and unedited session was first presented as part of a free webinar on September 11, 2025. There was no preparation or role-playing—everything was absolutely real and spontaneous, exactly as it evolved in real time. We present Part 1 as our final Feeling Good Podcast for our 2025 season. This is our most powerful and popular type of podcast, and we hope you enjoy it. We also give a big thanks to our courageous "patient," Madeleine. My co-therapist will be Dr. Jill Levitt, a clinical psychologist and Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Jill and I greatly enjoy working together as co-therapists when we teach and we typically see our "patient" for an extended, two-hour session. We find that this is the most effective format for teaching, and that way, we can frequently complete a course of therapy in a single session. However, you do not need more than one therapist to do effective TEAM CBT, and you can do it in conventional 50 minute sessions as well. But often, you can do vastly more in a double session. We will not be engaged in an ongoing therapeutic relationship with Madeleine. When we work with therapists, they are doing personal work as a part of their training. We feel that this experience is vital for every therapist who hopes to do world-class TEAM CBT with their own patients / clients. More than 2,000 individuals registered for this workshop. Although the workshop was open to everyone, only 13% of the participants identified as general public, while 87% identified as mental health professionals.  In Part 1, which we present today, we focused on T = Testing and E = Empathy phases of the TEAM session. In Part 2, which you will hear next week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods. We will also show you the changes in her scores on the Daily Mood Log (DML) and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) from the start to the end of the session, as well as Madeleine's scores on the Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) at the end, including what she liked the most and least about the session. That way, we can see clearly how much improvement there was (or wasn't) during the session, and how Jill and I did in terms of empathy, helpfulness, and other scales that evaluate the patient's view of the session. In Part 3, which you will hear in two weeks, we did more Externalization of Voices along with Cognitive Exposure, since we had some loose ends we wanted to tie up before completing our work with Madeleine. This follow-up session occurred many weeks after the initial session at the workshop, and will also serve as a follow-up to see how Madeleine did in the days following the live work. Part 1 of 3 Our "patient," Madeleine, is a courageous woman who experienced sheer panic after being triggered at the hair salon while reading an article about a young woman who was abducted. Since Madeleine's oldest daughter's is away at college, taking a year abroad, Madeleine realized she could not protect her from predators and freaked out, thinking about all the horrible things that could happen to her. In addition, Madeleine had many self-critical thoughts about ways she thought she had failed her daughter when her daughter was growing up, and worried about her daughter's judgement: She hasn't always made the best decisions about guys she's gone out with, and she's shared everything with me. She says, 'Don't worry mom. I've learned from this.'" At the start of the session, we reviewed Madeleine's scores on the Brief Mood Survey (BMS). This indicated only minimal depression (5/20), with no suicidal urges or anger, but her anxiety was still extremely elevated (18/20). In addition, her Positive Feelings score was only 20 out of 40, with 0 meaning no positive feelings at all, and 40 being the highest possible feelings. However, her Relationship Satisfaction score with her husband was 25 out of 30, which indicates strong satisfaction, with just a little room for improvement. We will ask Madeleine to complete the BMS again, along with the EOTS, so we can see precisely what changed, and by how much, during the session. Our goal, of course, with TEAM CBT, is nearly always to cause a near-complete, or complete, elimination of symptoms during a single, extended therapy session. In addition, we want every patient to have a crystal clear understanding of how and why they got upset, along with how to use the tools that were the most helpful to them in the session. That way, they'll be armed to deal with future relapses, which are inevitable for all human beings. And here's the big point. Our goal in sharing this session with you is so you can feel inspired, and see that rapid recovery really IS possible. And if you're a therapist, we hope that you will feel motivated to learn TEAM CBT so you can significantly improve your outcomes with your own patients. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared just prior to the session if you Click Here The upsetting situation was reading the article about the young abducted woman in the hair salon. On the Emotions table  she indicated that she was feeling sad, down, and unhappy (85%), anxious, frightened and panicky (100%), inadequate (100%), frustrated (90%), and angry and upset (100%). These extremely high ratings tells us that Madeleine's negative feelings were about as intense as a human being can experience. Although your life is undoubtedly very different from Madeleine's, perhaps you, too, have felt panic and helplessness when you thought the life of a loved one might be in danger. Madeleine generated several additional negative Thoughts during the empathy phase of the session, including, I'm totally responsible for how she's turned out. 95% I was not present enough for her. 95% She may not trust that I'm there for her. 60% She's anxious and insecure and a people-pleasure, and she's also perfectionistic, and it's all my fault. 75% I should have been more sensitive when she was growing up. I expected too much. 100% Again, if you're a parent, you may have had similar negative thoughts about your own parenting. I know that I have! During the Empathy phase, Madeleine described her horrors when reading the article at the hairdresser's, with thoughts of Natalie Hollaway's brutal murder as well as other women who were abducted and murdered. Madeleine explained that she and her husband both married late, and felt somewhat insecure as parents: "It wasn't easy having children late in life. . . .  When our first baby was born, the milk was not coming down. My daughter would look deep into my eyes, and I had the thought, 'I'm letting my daughter down.'" She said she had a rough time when she was growing up and her parents got divorced: "My heart was broken, and I had to learn to be strong. I had to learn not to let so much emotion through. I had to learn how to keep guys at arm's length. I had to protect myself from getting hurt." She said that wanted her daughters to grow up being strong and independent, but as she reflects back, she thinks she may have failed them and not provided enough warmth and support. Our goal during E = Empathy is not to help or even try change anything, but simply to go with our patients to the gates of hell, so they can vent, cry, and express their deepest and most private feelings. At the end of the Empathy portion of the session, we asked Madeleine to grade us on the three key elements of empathy, using letter grades: How accurately did we understand how you were thinking? How accurately did we understand how you were feeling inside? To what extent did we convey the spirit of trust, warmth, and acceptance? She gave us 3 A's, indicating it was time to move on to A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, which you will hear next week. We will want to find out what Madeleine might want help with. We will also try to melt away her resistance to change using the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial.    Why would we anticipate resistance? After all, Madeleine is asking for help. But remember, the desire for change cannot always be take for granted in anyone. Nearly all of us have mixed feelings about change. After all, a loving and concerned mother might NOT want to stop worrying about a beloved daughter who seems to be in grave danger! But if you deal with this resistance in a compassionate way, you may open the door to the possibility of rapid healing when you come to the M = Methods portion of the session. We can check it out at the exciting conclusion of the work with Madeleine next week!

Past Projection vs. Memory Rescripting Why Can't I Lose Weight? Do Demons Cause Negative Thoughts! Featuring Our Beloved Dr. Matthew May The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Rhonda asks: What's the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons?   And here are the answers! Rhonda asks: What's the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? I would love to learn more about Memory Rescripting, since I really don't see much difference between that and Past Projection, but maybe I am just dense.  So if we could talk about that on the next Ask David, that would be great. Thanks, Rhonda David's reply I use the term, Time Travel, and you can project yourself into the future or the past, hence Future or Past Projection. If you want a patient to travel into the past, there are a great many things you can do that might be helpful. You can do "Forgiveness Training," developed by Jaimie Galindo. Essentially, the patient talks to someone, like a parent, who abused them in some way, telling the parent how hurt they felt, and how they needed the parent's love. Or you can do Cognitive Flooding, simply "watching" some traumatic event to experience the anxiety until it wears out and loses its power to upset you. And there are many more techniques you can use to explore past experiences with a patient. Memory Rescripting is like Cognitive Flooding—you have the patient close their eyes and vividly re-experience something traumatic, like the babysitter abusing them. Then, at the height of the feelings of anxiety, anger, and helplessness, you can tell the patient that they can be like a movie director, and change the scene so there is a different outcome. For example, the patient may want to enter the scene as a powerful adult and punish the perpetrator. This is not some standard procedure, as every patient will be completely different. Often, they will want to do something violent to the perpetrator, so this procedure can be anxiety provoking for the therapist! I have only used it on a couple occasions, but had good results with it both times. I am not a strong believer that patients "must" go into the past to "work through" a prior traumatic experience, so I don't have that much need for it. But it is a good technique to have in your toolbox.   Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Dear Dr. Burns, I recently listened to your podcast episode on Habits and Addictions, and it really resonated with me. I've been going to the gym regularly, but I'm struggling with my eating habits — I tend to eat too much, and my weight hasn't been decreasing. What I've realized is that I may be experiencing what you describe as outcome resistance. A part of me feels that if I lose weight and become thin and attractive, I might still not take action in areas like dating — so then I ask myself, "Why should I even bother with weight reduction?" I'm finding it difficult to overcome this resistance, even though I want to be healthier. Could you please share some guidance or strategies to work through this kind of resistance? Thank you for all the wonderful work you do. Your podcasts have been truly insightful and helpful. Warm regards, Slash   David's reply Thanks, and we will discuss this important question on the podcast. However, in the meantime, if you can search for Triple Paradox you may find your answer. Also, you can download two free unpublished changers on habits and addictions from any page on feeling good.com, and use the Decision -Making, Tool. That, too, will give you the answer! Warmly, david   Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? David and Rhonda, Hello. I am doing some research into "spiritual" causes of depression. I realize that you are both scientists (and BRILLIANT ones), but if you have any sources I could review, I would appreciate suggestions.  It might also make for an interesting Halloween season podcast. Do "demons" cause automatic negative thoughts. And if not demons, what actually causes them?  Please don't dismiss this as "crazy". I am a very religious person and at times I have sincerely asked the question...are depression and anxiety ...at least in part, spiritual maladies.  I have found tremendous help in Feeling Good, but also in prayer and religious practices. I want to research what has been done in terms of crossover studies/experiments (if any).  Marianne   David's reply Thank you. The spiritual underpinnings are not so much something to be researched, but can add a deeper dimension of meaning and understanding to the healing. Current thinking is that Self-Defeating Beliefs, not demons, trigger the negative thoughts. I have written about all of this extensively, so I won't try to say it all again here. But we can exchange some ideas on the podcast. Thanks! d Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David

Am I Helping People Who Are Suicidal? Should I Worry about My Daughter's Anxiety? Disarming Yourself The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself?   George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? Dear David, Please tell me if this is too close to medical or other protected advice, but I had a question about something I tell people who are sometimes struggling with suicidal ideation. Throughout my life, I have had the thought "I don't want to be alive anymore" more times than I can count. But what I have come to realize over time is that this is just something my brain says when I'm upset; it doesn't really mean anything other than that. It's just a reaction to being very upset and that reframing helps me feel better about it, knowing that it's not a conviction but rather just how my brain expresses negative distress. Multiple people have found this helpful, but I wonder if telling certain people this would be dismissive/triggering/etc. In a dangerous way? Do you think I should stop sharing this experience? George David's reply: Hi George, Thanks for asking. I will make this an Ask David question, if okay with you, using your first name or some other name if you prefer. Short answer: to me, this is like giving advice, to my way of thinking, and I have spent the last 40 – 50 years indicating that this is NOT an approach that's ever worked for me. Can say more on the podcast. Thanks! Warmly, david   No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter's anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, I am not very skilled at expressing how much you, Rhonda, the others and your work mean to me. So, I will just ask a question. My daughter, who has a lot of anxiety issues told me that when she has a problem, she will purposely stew over it when trying to fall asleep so that she will wake up with an answer to the problem the next morning. I cringed. Is there any way that this is a safe or helpful paradoxical technique? No name David's reply Thanks, I'll copy Rhonda. We are both grateful for your loving comments! Rhonda, we can make this an ask David if you like for a podcast. But short answer, at least, in my opinion, is that this is a cool way to use your brain. It is a skill. For example, I often get confused by a difficult statistics problem when analyzing data, and go to sleep confused. Nearly all the time, my brain wakes me up in the middle of the night with a brilliant answer. So, if she perceived is in a positive way, and isn't disturbed, you could try nourishing it, as opposed to worrying about it! We'll see what Rhonda thinks. Rhonda, I'll add this great brief question to our list for Tuesday. I am reluctant to postpone the Ask David as when we've done this in the past, we've ended up never answer at least 20 to 30 questions which are now too old to put on a podcast. Those who asked may no longer even be alive it's been so long! Warmly, david Rhonda's reply Thank you for this lovely feedback. It really means a lot to us. Your daughter is going through something so many of us experience. I am excited we can respond to your question on an Ask David podcast. Warmly, Rhonda Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Subject: Question about using disarming technique on oneself, and also it being used against you. Endless gratitude to all of you for the pipeline of clarity and hope. I was wondering if one can use disarming on oneself. Much of the focus in feeling good seems focused on looking for and challenging our distortions, which seems the opposite of disarming. Maybe the reversal of agendas emphasized in feeling great is essentially putting the disarming back into the process in regards to ourselves. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. On a side note, if one is in a legal contention or divorce, I could see how disarming could be effective and pacifying, yet what if those admissions could be used against you. David's reply I would like to include this in an Ask David podcast, with our first name or a fake name. Please advise if okay. Short answer: the ideas and tools to treat individual mood problems, like depression, are the complete opposite of the ideas and tools to treat relationship problems. This is like matter and anti-matter. However, the Disarming Technique and the Acceptance Paradox connect these two opposed and radically different worlds. So, in a sense, you are right. The Acceptance Paradox is a lot like disarming yourself! Best, david Jeffry's reply to david Thank you for the succinct response, and I look forward to hearing it fleshed out in the podcast. I would be honored for you to mention my name: Jeffrey - from the outskirts of Jerusalem in Israel And thank you to the whole team for keeping the best things in life for free (although I do hope everyone receives the funds they need). Yet I feel converse maxim - "there's no free lunch" remains standing, app://resources/notifications.html And that is, because, as you state over and over - anybody serious in improvement must pay the price; whether in completing the daily logs, or Burns assessment quizzes, or facing your fears, challenging your assumptions or fine-tuning one's communication skills, one interaction at a time. The danger of apps, and screens in general, are the inherent passivity and superficiality they engender, so I am looking forward to seeing how this app overcomes that. Lastly, you had sought feedback as to audience preferences for podcasts: I think by now I and most regular listeners are clear in the general approaches of Team CBT, and how it differs from other schools and their adherents, so now I benefit most from the role playing to crystallize and internalize its application. I would also be willing to forego multiple scenarios in each session in order to spend more time reiterating and clarifying individual scenarios - assuming that David, Rhonda, Matt, etc, have the willingness to keep going. Keep on keeping us learning and laughing. Jeffrey David's reply Thanks for the kindly and thoughtful note. We'll certainly try, but as you say, there's no free lunch and no guarantees! We are sometimes just hanging on! I like your recommendation for podcasts: more role playing I think to bring techniques and ideas to life. Warmly, david Thanks, for listening! David and Rhonda

Ask David Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings without oversharing? The answers to today's questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today's podcast. Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? But first, we start today's podcast with a comment from Susan, one of our podcast fans. She extends our discussion of whether friendship is more of a human "need" or a human "want." She describes her work with Dr. Daniel Herman, a Level 4 certified TEAM CBT therapist. Hi Rhonda, Matt, and David, First, I wanted to say I am so glad sweet Rhonda is feeling better. This is wonderful news! I have been a fan of Dr. Burns books for 10+ years and of the podcast for 3 years. I just finished listening to podcast #469 on friendship and felt compelled to share my story as it relates to Team CBT. Three years ago, my 23 year-old son entered a 90 day inpatient rehabilitation center for a marijuana addiction followed by 1 1/2 years in a sober living facility. Six months into his recovery, I reached out to Dr. Daniel Hermann, a Team CBT level 4 therapist. At that time, my son's progress had been steady yet I was still suffering greatly. One of many thoughts that contributed to my suffering was that my friends couldn't understand what I was going through. Although I have been fortunate to have had many wonderful friendships for 30+ years, Although I was open with my friends about my struggles, I generally didn't feel they understood what I was going through and I felt isolated. Fortunately, Dr. Herman did not try to convince me that I "needed" these friendships or to be understood to "get through" this difficult time. Instead, he helped me to look at the situation realistically, without distortions. My positive reframe regarding my friends was "I wish I could have felt closer to my friends during this difficult time. However, there are many ways in which I have supported myself and I have found other outside sources of comfort also." I made a very detailed list of the myriad of ways I had supported myself which brought me great comfort and empowerment. I was able to accept that I wasn't feeling as close to my friends as I would have liked, without blaming them or myself. I also let go of my belief that my friends "should" have been able to empathize better with what I was going through. I learned that although I truly value these friendships, if I expect them to mean everything to me in every situation, I will be setting myself up for a lot of suffering. I am so happy that sweet Rhonda had those strong friendships to help her during such a dark time. She is very fortunate! Since Rhonda had a change of heart during the podcast, the following comments are based on her beliefs at the beginning of the podcast: that the support of her friends is a need and that she could not have "gotten through" her treatments without it. Did Rhonda mean that she would have not sought cancer treatment, the treatments would have been ineffective, or that she would have ended her life without the support of her friends? Would she have told a client of hers in a similar situation that she needed to focus all her time and effort on developing meaningful friendships rather than treating her cancer because friendship was the true need? Obviously, I don't believe she would have and am glad that she had a change of heart regarding this belief. Thank you all for your wonderful podcasts! Susan The point I was trying to make is that Dr. Hermann himself did not appear to believe in these self-defeating beliefs, contrary to public opinion. This was essential to me coming to the same conclusions. (To be clear, he NEVER told me what to believe lol. I was paying him but I did all the work! Frustrating at times but coming to my own conclusions was the only way to internalize these messages.) Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What's causing this? And what can I do? Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and prompt reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me to the additional resources on your website—I have found them and am already finding them very helpful. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding. The beginning of the new semester has kept me quite occupied, and I have only now found a moment to write to you properly. I am writing to you again because I have been struggling with some persistent challenges and was hoping I might ask for your guidance. Lately, I often find myself distracted by vivid, intrusive daydreams—I create elaborate imaginary stories or visualize worst-case scenarios, such as natural disasters. In addition, I have developed what feels like an obsessive need to keep my books in perfect condition. Even minor wear causes me significant anxiety, and I find it difficult to stop thinking about it if I cannot repair the damage. These thoughts and behaviors are beginning to affect my daily life, and I was wondering if you might have any advice or suggested resources that could help me better understand and manage them. Thank you once again for your generosity and support. Your work has already made a profound difference in my life. Warm regards, Zhang  David's response Thanks, Zhang. There are many methods and ideas in When Panic Attacks, my book on anxiety. In particular, the Hidden Emotion Technique might interest you. If you are in the US, there is a class on it in the Feeling Great app, which is free until the end of September, so move fast. Also, I would like to include this as an Ask David, if that's okay. Can use your first name, or a fake name. Best, david   Yevhen asks: How can I use "I Feel" Statements without oversharing? Hello Dr. Burns, Rhonda, and Matt, I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude for the remarkable work you're doing in the field of TEAM-CBT. Your books and your voice of reason have been an immense help to me in some of the most difficult times. Dr Burns, I always feel amazed hearing your wisdom and patience each time you explain the concepts. Even those concepts that were explained before. Additionally, thank you Dr Burns, Rhonda and Matt, for the exceptional Feeling Good podcast you host. Each new episode is a highlight of my week and nearly always offers profound insight and encouragement. On a lighter note, I sometimes play your podcast at night when I have trouble sleeping. It really helps me drift off within 20-30 minutes 😀 Rhonda, I admire your perseverance in the face of your illness. I wish you a smooth and speedy recovery. Matt, I really appreciate all the cool insights you're sharing and contributing to this podcast. I'd love to ask you a couple of questions: 1)    When I meet new people, I tend to guide the conversation by asking relevant, open-ended questions. Something similar to the "TV host persona" you described in Feeling Great. The challenge is that I rarely share much about myself. This often leads my friends or partners to say that they hardly know me or that I keep personal matters private/do not share anything with them. How can I work on sharing more about myself without oversharing? 2)    I usually appear calm and some people even describe me as having a "poker face." This sometimes leaves my partner/friends unsure how to read my reactions or feelings. Is there a way to become more comfortable showing emotions without forcing it? 3)    I'm not naturally confrontational, so in difficult situations or disagreements I usually choose flight over fight. This sometimes leaves me feeling like I missed something or haven't explained my position/point of view. Is there anything I can do to develop a healthier balance in these moments? I would be really grateful if you could answer any of these questions. Thank you again for your inspiring work! Best regards Yevhen M. David's reply Thanks, will add this to the next Ask David list. In the meantime, we did a podcast on "I Feel" statements that you could find on my website, with many practical ideas. You said you want to practice something new and asked: :"How can I work on sharing more about myself without oversharing?" That sounds like you want to practice pitching, in baseball, and want to make sure you throw all perfect pitches. This is not possible! You WILL over or under share at times, it's a rule of the universe. Are you willing to learn by trial and error? And what are you the most afraid of? On question #3, I never answer abstract, hypothetical questions, as you will know if you have followed my work. If you want help with this, write down one thing the other person said, (or might say), and what, exactly, you said next (or might say next.) This will provide a world of specific information that will contain the answer you're looking for. But on a general level, as the Buddha said so many years ago, "don't waste your time in worthless generalizations. Give me something specific and real, please!" Best, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David

Relapse and Relapse Prevention for Overeating Featuring Dr. Angela Krumm On today's podcast, we proudly feature an old friend, Dr. Angela Krumm, on the topic of relapse prevention for habits and addictions. This is certainly a top of incredible importance, since all treatments for all habits and addictions seem to have extremely high relapse rates. Anything we could do to reduce that would be a major contribution. Angela was on our Feeling Good Podcast #270 on Nov 29, 2021 describing some TEAM CBT methods she'd developed to deal with her own weight gain. In podcast #270 she taught listeners how to set process goals, instead of outcome focused goals. She then taught about the Triple Paradox, Habit Addiction Log, Devil's Advocate technique, and the Problem-Solution log. In that first episode she explained that this was a difficult time in her life: her father had died, and she'd also experienced a traumatic fall which caused a concussion. So she fell off being careful about her diet, and one day was shocked that she could not recognize herself—due to weight gain--in a photo, and was on the fast track to Type II Diabetes. As a result, she utilized many of the TEAM CBT techniques and slowly, but surely, lost weight and kept it off for multiple years. She explains that she was "solid for a long time, but have to confess, with shame, that I eventually relapsed because I got over-confident. I'd been tracking what I ate, which was an important key for me, and stopped keeping up with it consistently, thinking I didn't really need to anymore." We reviewed the kinds of tempting thoughts she'd had (and still has, of course, at times), when she feels tempted by her favorites: things like delicious brownies, red wine, and other sweet treats.  She has tempting thoughts such as: I deserve to take a break from tracking what I eat. I deserve a treat—I've had a hard day. It's silly to be so rigid. I deserve to eat whatever I want. Spontaneity is one of my core values! During the podcast, we illustrated the Devil's Advocate Technique (DAT), which is powerful and a lot of fun, but sometimes trickier than it looks. When Angela gave a "good" but not "huge" response to one of these tempting thoughts, I automatically suggested a role-reversal. Rhonda immediately and rightly reminded us that we never do role-reversals when people are stuck during the Devil's Advocate. Instead, we paradox the person and sit with open hands. Rhonda modeled this beautifully and it worked like a charm. Angela had a sudden about face and blew the tempting thought out of the water immediately. We made three teaching points on DAT. Don't give in to the urge to "help." This will have the opposite effect of keeping the patient stuck. Realize that if you're a therapist, and your patient cannot convincingly defeat all the temping thoughts in the office, the likelihood that they can defeat them when they're at home is 0%. So, the DAT is both a powerful technique to boost motivation with tools you can use when tempted, but it is also a powerful test of motivation. Remember to Sit with Open Hands if your patients cannot convincingly defeat their tempting thoughts. Angela shared that she now realizes that the main reason for her relapse was that she had skipped relapse prevention. This is the danger of being your own therapist, sometimes you make the mistake of cutting corners or getting overly confident. She asked to return to the podcast today to talk about that important mistake and help others prevent that mistake in the future. She wants us to emphasize the important of Relapse Prevention for all habits and addictions. When Angela mentioned that she'd relapsed in her eating to a therapist who was just learning TEAM-CBT, the therapist seemed shocked and asked, "Oh, does this mean that the techniques we're learning don't actually work?" This is such a great (but naïve and common) question, because we always emphasize that all patients—in fact all human beings—will relapse after recovery from depression, anxiety, a relationship conflict, or a habit / addiction. That's why it's so important to tell patients about relapse before discharge from therapy, and do a brief but intensive relapse prevention intervention. We reviewed several of the Relapse Prevention techniques, including the Problem Solution List and the Relapse Prevention Daily Mood Log, using and recording the Externalization of Voices. When you do this step with a patient, ask them to imagine the future moment in time when they have relapsed. It's important to capture the thoughts that will lead them to give up and quit using the techniques. Often, these are hopeless thoughts about the usefulness of the techniques or their ability to remain in recovery. If these thoughts are left unchecked, they will spiral the person into a deeper and more lengthy relapse. If they can predict the thoughts ahead of time and generate powerful rebuttals to use in that moment, then their first moment of relapse can be turned around quickly! We listed several of Angela's predicted negative thoughts during her relapse: I should not have let this happen. 100% I'm not strong enough. 60% It's just too hard to start tracking and logging what I eat again. 65% It will be too painful to have to track and see what I've eaten. 60% This isn't fair. It should be so hard to be healthy! 70% Screw it. I should just accept this and give up! 40% Podcast listeners will judge me because I have gained weight again. 10% We practiced challenging those thoughts with the Externalization of Voices, and Rhonda summarize several of the strategies that can be the most helpful: Self-Defense The Acceptance Paradox. The Counter-Attack Technique A combination of two or three Angela summarized three important take home messages from today's podcast. Always prepare a Relapse Daily Mood Log ahead of time, anticipating what you will be telling yourself when you relapse Challenge those thoughts with EOV and record that role-play so you can listen to it in the future when tempted. After you have lost sufficient weight, make a plan to continue your healthier eating after the acute phase. Do NOT make the common mistake of thinking, "Oh, I've achieved my goal of losing 30 pounds (or whatever), so now I'm done, and can go back to my normal eating habits and patterns again." Thank you for listening today! Angela, Rhonda, and David

Most of us think we're great communicators… but the truth is, we often aren't. At the free webinar on Wednesday, December 3 from 11 to 1 PT, you'll learn some tremendous new skills that will blow your mind. They'll also transform your relationships with the people you care about!  Sign up now at FeelingGoodWebinar.com. It's for EVERYBODY! Shrinks and the general public alike are warmly welcomed.  Therapists can purchase two CE credits if you attend the live event. See you there!  

COMING UP IN JANUARY: Fast Track to LEVEL 3 TEAM CBT Certification Howdy! If you're a therapist looking to strengthen your TEAM CBT skills and earn continuing education credit, here's an exceptional opportunity coming up in January 2026. Feeling Good Institute's Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification Starts January 16, 2026 • 25 weeks • 46 CEs Special Offer for Podcast Listeners: Use discount code FRIEND50 for a course price of $595.* Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. This hybrid course combines: • Live weekly practice groups • Self-paced video training featuring Dr. David Burns & Dr. Jill Levitt • Deliberate Practice exercises such as Externalization of Voices and the Double Standard Technique • FREE Therapist Toolkit ($199 value) • Certification exam fees included *Early-Career Clinicians: If you're an Associate or Postdoc in the USA or Canada, use code EarlyCareer2026 and get the course for just $195 plus exam fee. Enroll Now at FastTrackCBT.com. If you want to level up your therapy skills for the rest of your career, this may be the ideal time.