Elevator Systems - Bowen Family Systems Theory

Today’s episode explores how Bowen family systems theory is useful in thinking about and attending to burnout. Margarita Martínez Duarte shares her experiences as a therapist and work with those going through burnout in caregiving. Margarita Martínez Duarte, family therapist, lives in Mexico City where she has her own psychotherapy practice. Margarita is a member of the IberoAmerican Institute which is a part of the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family. She is also a Member and professor at the Instituto Latinoamericano de Estudios sobre la Familia, ILEF. Margarita has published three books of poetry and a novel.Resources:Margarita’s workshopIbero American Bowen Center groupLinda MacKay, Differentiation of Self: Enhancing Therapist Resilience When Working with Relational TraumaTurkish study, Differentiation of Self Predicts Counselor Burnout Through Effective Psychological Counselor CharacteristicsThe Murray Bowen Archives, Erosion lettersLucy Cooke - Bitch: On the Female of the SpeciesDr Kathleen Smith - The Cycle of Overfunctioning and Distancing2027 International Conference, July 7-9, 2027Nov 6-7th Bowen Center 63rd Annual Symposium Living Systems Counselling and TrainingWant to speak with a counsellor? Contact usSeason 5 episodes will be released every two weeks til the International Conference in July of 2027. Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 to 4.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Burnout #Overfunctioning #CaregiverBurnout #Caregiving #MentalLoad #Counselling #MentalHealth #Relationships #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

This episode explores how to hold on to systems thinking in everyday life and relationships. Dr. Kathleen Smith, Katie, and Dixie share practical ways to widen the lens, stay curious, and notice patterns instead of assigning blame. Through examples from family transitions, clinical work, and stories from books and television, they discuss how small practices—like observing emotional process, asking different questions, and focusing on your own choices—can help make systems thinking more accessible.Dr. Kathleen Smith joins us from Washington DC where she’s a licensed therapist and writer. Her two books are Everything Isn't Terrible and True to You, and she also writes the popular online newsletter, The Anxious Overachiever. Kathleen is a faculty member at the Bowen Center.Resources:Dr. Kathleen Smith - The Anxious Overachiever newsletterDr. Kathleen Smith - Everything Isn’t TerribleDr. Kathleen Smith - True to YouAnthony J. Wilgus, “Mom’s Committed Suicide: Now What?” In Titelman & Reed, Ed., Death and Chronic Illness in the Family Roberta M. Gilbert, MD - Extraordinary RelationshipsAnne S. McKnight, EdD - Thinking SystemsOct 23rd Living Systems Conference, Thinking Big About Family Challenges2027 International Conference, July 7-9, 2027Nov 6-7th Bowen Center 63rd Annual Symposium Living Systems Counselling and TrainingWant to speak with a counsellor? Contact usSeason 5 episodes will be released every two weeks from Tuesday October 6th til the International Conference in July of 2027. Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 to 4.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #Patterns #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk

Elevator Systems is back for Season 5. This season’s theme connects with the Bowen Theory International Conference happening in Vancouver, BC (and online) in July 2027. The conference title is Bowen Theory Beyond Borders: Exploring Current Applications and Growing Global Connections. See the link below for more information on that conference. Season 5 welcomes Bowen thinkers and practitioners from around the globe to discuss different areas they are using and expanding the theory. Dixie Vandersluys is a Canadian Certified Counsellor based in Manitoba, Canada. She has undergraduate degrees in history and philosophy and a Master of Arts in Counselling from Providence Theological Seminary.  Dixie enjoys seeing clients across Canada in her private practice and doing workshops with different groups. Dixie is a faculty member at Living Systems and the creator and host of the Elevator Systems podcast.  Katie White is a Marriage and Family Therapist registered in the US and Canada.  She has been working with individuals, couples and families in schools, clinics, and non-profit centres for twenty years in the US, Australia and Canada. In 2010, Katie began focusing her practice using Bowen family systems theory and has attended the Post-Graduate Program at the Bowen Center.  Katie is currently the Executive Director of Living Systems in Vancouver Canada. Katie teaches and supervises interns there, as well as managing a private practice.Season 5 episodes will be released every two weeks from Tuesday October 6th til the International Conference in July of 2027. Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 to 4.Resources:Kerr & Bowen, Family Evaluation2027 International Conference, July 7-9, 2027Oct 23rd Living Systems Conference, Thinking Big About Family ChallengesNov 6-7th Bowen Center 63rd Annual Symposium Living Systems Counselling and TrainingSubscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast

The Season 4 bonus episode is a conversation with Dr. Anne McKnight on beliefs, relationships, and Bowen family systems theory. It looks at how emotional pressures influence how people think, act, and believe, and how slowing down, getting curious, and examining one’s position in a relationship system can help clarify beliefs and how one wants to live out beliefs.Dr. Anne McKnight is a long time student of Bowen theory and has worked as a clinician using the theory in her practice for forty years. She is a Director Emerita of the Bowen Center, which she led from 2010-2020 and the author of Thinking Systems: Applying Bowen Theory in Clinical Practice — which Katie and I both recommend. Anne has presented nationally and internationally on Bowen theory, but most importantly it has been useful in her own life with her family, three children, and nine grandchildren.Resources:Anne S McKnight, Thinking Systems: Applying Bowen Theory in Clinical PracticeMurray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeMichael Kerr & Murray Bowen, Family Evaluation Robert L Williamson, Family Thoughts: Studies of the Function of Beliefs within the Family UnitRobert L Williamson, The Beliefs Chart and Walter Inglis Anderson, Family Systems Forum, Fall, 2008 Vol 10, No.3: https://csnsf.org/family-systems-forum/article-index/Victoria Harrison, “The Belief Paper Assignment” Family Systems Forum, Fall 2022, Vol 24, No.3: https://csnsf.org/family-systems-forum/article-index/Interested in the Submitting an Abstract for the International Conference? Email: [email protected] us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Look for Season 5 coming this fall.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Anxiety #Beliefs #Values #Differences #Conversations #Dialogue #Growth #Maturity #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #Differentiation #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

This episode explores how money is linked to family and relationship processes. Kathy Wiseman shares her personal and professional experience from across the decades in a conversation about how Bowen family systems theory is helpful for individuals, families, and organizations to be more thoughtful about their financial situations, struggles, and goals. Kathy Wiseman trains and coaches people who live, work, and govern in family business, family foundations and family offices. Kathy is a faculty member at the Bowen Center and was adjunct faculty at the George Washington University School of Business and the Center for Entrepreneurial Leadership. She also served as President of the Family Firm Institute and Dean of the Family Office Exchange Learning Academy and founded Working Systems. Kathy has co-authored three books: Understanding Organizations, The Emotional Side of Organizations, and Trustworthy.Resources:Kathy Wiseman: Understanding OrganizationsKathy Wiseman: The Emotional Side of OrganizationsKathy Wiseman & Hartley Goldstone: TrustworthyMariana Martinez & Peter Bloom: Seeing the Blindspot: A Guide for Advisors Working with the Family EnterpriseVictoria Harrison: The Emotional Side of Money, Family Systems Forum No. 4, Winter 2007Victoria Harrison: The Emotional Side of Money Part 2, Family Systems Forum No. 4, Spring 2008Eileen G. Pendegast: Wealth, Inherited or Acquired - A Multi-Generational Family Issue in The Family, Vol 11, No.1Interested in the Submitting an Abstract for the International Conference? Email: [email protected] Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Money #Wealth #Inheritance #FamilyMoney #Anxiety #GenerationalWealth #FinancialDynamics #WealthTransfer #MoneyConversations #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

This episode discusses Bowen family systems theory and sexual diversity. Kent Webb joins to share his personal journey and research on the topic. The conversation explores how curiosity and open dialogue can encourage understanding and growth in relationships as well as in Bowen theory itself.Kent Webb works in both the organizational and mental health worlds with practices in each field. He is an executive coach and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, who has obtained broad experience and education as both a chief executive officer and a mental health coach. Kent trained in the Postgraduate Program at the Bowen Center and became a faculty member there in  2020. His publications include a chapter in Chronic Illness and Death in the Family, two articles in Family Systems Forum on Sexual Diversity and a chapter in The Emotional Side of Organizations: Applications of Bowen Theory.Resources:Kent Webb: Chronic Illness and Death in the Family (Ed. Titleman & Reed)Kent Webb: The Emotional Side of Organizations: Applications of Bowen TheoryKent Webb: Family Systems Forum articlesFrans de Waal: Different: Gender Thru the Eyes of a PrimatologistBowen Center Spring 2025 conference link: Sexual Diversity & the Human FamilyNathan Lents linksInterested in the Submitting an Abstract for the International Conference? Email: [email protected] Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #SexualDiveristy #Gender #GenderDiversity #LGBTQ+ #Curiosity #Conversation #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast

Today’s episode looks at how Bowen family systems theory is useful in the complex area of sexual abuse scandals. Kathleen Cotter-Cauley joins this episode to discuss the many groups involved in scandals and how an eye on the family and relationship systems is a lens that can add clarity and understanding to this complicated and relevant topic.Kathleen Cotter-Cauley is a licensed marriage and family therapist who has a private practice in both Virginia and Florida. She’s been a faculty member of the Bowen Center since 2012, was involved in founding the Florida Family Research Network, and has been on the faculty of Extraordinary Leadership and Systems Leadership seminars. Some of her community service efforts include working with guide dogs and being part of review boards for sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church.Resources:Dr. Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeDr. Walter Smith: Child Abuse in Family Emotional Process, Family Systems Journal 5.2Interested in submitting an abstract for the 2027 International Conference? Email: [email protected] Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Abuse #SexualAbuse #Scandals #Secrets #WomenTalking #SpotlightMovie #Epstein #EpsteinFiles #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

In this episode of Elevator Systems, we explore politics and Bowen family systems theory. Dr. Robert L. Davis is our guest as we zoom out across time and zoom in to the influence on family life, as well as the challenge of maintaining objectivity in politically polarized environments.Dr. Robert L. Davis is founder and Executive Director of Seasoned With Grace UnBoxed, a nonprofit committed to helping develop strong authentic leaders, as well bringing communities together to develop solutions around public safety and policing. Seasoned With Grace UnBoxed leads two community-centered projects: The Task Force to Reimagine Policing and Public Safety and Transforming Our Communities Alliance (TOCA). He has over 20 years of experience as a senior pastor, Family Life Educator, hospice chaplain, bereavement coordinator, and community leader.Resources:Dr. Robert L Davis, Transforming Our Communities Alliance (TOCA) Dr. Bowen, 1970 letter, The Murray Bowen Archives ProjectKatherine Gratwick Baker: Emotional Process in Society, Family Systems Journal, 13.1 W.E.B. Du Bois “Why I Won’t Be Voting in 1956” - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, “Why I Oppose the Vietnam War” Family Matters, “Political Reactivity and Self Regulation”Family Matters “Making Decisions in an Emotionally Aroused Social Environment”Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #Politics #Polarization #Democratic #Republican #History #Leadership #Differences #Curiosity #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Today’s episode looks at religion and relationships. We are diving into a hot topic and seeing how Bowen family systems theory is a resource to thinking about and observing religion and how people function around religion - within and between religious communities. Matt Steele joins us to share his thinking and experience on the topic. Matt Steele is a Bowen theory coach and pastoral supervisor who grew up in Sydney Australia. Matt is also an ordained Anglican minister and worked in a range of church ministry roles before shifting into his current work. Matt is an associate faculty member at the Family Systems Institute in Australia and now works primarily with Christian pastors, leaders and communities through his business changeroom. Last year he delivered the keynote talks at the Family Systems Institute’s Systems In Ministry Symposium titled, The Emotional Ecosystem of Ministry: Navigating The Relationship Jungle Without Becoming a Predator Or Being Eaten Alive.Resources:changeroom: http://changeroom.au/FSI Ministry Symposium recording Dr. Bowen 1966 letter, The Murray Bowen Archives ProjectRabbi Edwin Friedman: Generation to Generation Derek Thompson articleLiving Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Thriving in Ministry conference recording: https://www.thebowencenter.org/conferencesWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Religion #Faith #Belief #Doubt #Questions #SpiritualGrowth #Differences #LifeTogether #Congregations #Church #God #Christianity #FaithCommunity #Community #Friedman #Mindfulness #Values #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk

What does Bowen family systems theory have to say about sports? A surprising amount! Amie Post is on the podcast again to think about the emotional processes of sports and how athletic performance can mirror relationship dynamics. Learn more on how automatic reactions, anxiety, and differentiation of self influence both the game and real-world relationships, offering insights into personal growth and group functioning.Amie Post, MA, LCMFT is a marriage and family therapist with extensive experience in leadership who began studying Bowen theory in 2001. She is the Interim Director of the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family in Washington, DC, as well as the Executive Director of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York. Previously Amie held the role of Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. Amie is also a wife, mother, and grandmother.Resources:Dr. Bowen 1973 letter, The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeKathleen Smith, The Anxious OverachieverFamily Systems Forum The Bowen CenterThe Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New YorkCenter for Family Consultation (Chicago), Midwest Symposium informationWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Sports #Team #Player #Athlete #Teamwork #Game #TedLasso #TomBrady #Football #Basketball #Schoolsports #TeamSports #Workout #Practice #Growth #Coaching #Coach #MentalHealth #AthleticPerformance #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk