Deviate

“That's part of the fun of travel. Methodically crossing items off a Bucket List is less exciting than reimagining things as you go. It makes your life's journey part of an ongoing conversation rather than just a static list of things to be crossed off.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jamin talk about how Rolf travels differently now that he's married to Kiki, and how his relationship to home has transformed as well (2:00); how travel changes at different phases of one's life, how travel shouldn't be a competitive pursuit, and where Rolf has yet to travel (8:30); how The Vagabond's Way has an older sensibility than Vagabonding, and what travel teaches you about fear and boredom (18:00); the travel metaphors embedded in The Odyssey, places Rolf might not return to, and what travel teaches you about faith traditions (27:00); good international places to begin journeys, and what a lifetime of travel can teach you about home (36:00). Jamin Coller hosts the If I'm Really Honest podcast. Notable Links: The Odyssey (2026 film) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (book) Hero's journey (ancient narrative template) José Ortega y Gasset (Spanish philosopher) Richard Rohr (priest and spiritual writer) Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) The Vagabond's Way, by Rolf Potts (book) Desert Fathers (early Christian hermits and ascetics) The Entertainment System Is Down (upcoming moive) The Geography of Mourning, by Rolf Potts (essay) Syncretism (merged belief systems) Siberut (island near Sumatra) Trojan Horse (mythological war strategy) Nolan's Odyssey Softens the Original Epic (article) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's annual writing classes) Chiang Mai (city in Thailand) Arctic Circle Trail (hiking trail in Greenland) Zacatecas (region in Mexico) Adventurers' Club of Los Angeles (private social club) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to he...

“Las Vegas is hard to capture in art without leaning on cliche. The movie Casino doesn't lean on cliche because it created the cliche. The Hangover created the cliche for this next generation. Culture is is causing people to act a certain way when they get to Las Vegas.” – Tod Goldberg In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tod talk about how movies can "totalize" places like Las Vegas, depicting "The Strip" at the expense of other parts of the city (3:00); the way that the real Las Vegas is full of deeply weird places and people, while still being an amalgamation of American culture in general (8:00); bygone hotels and attractions and the "lack institutional memory" in Las Vegas, as well as what social classes of people are attracted to the city (16:00); the kinds of movies that have been made about Las Vegas, the cliches they entail, and what they imply about how (and where) the city should be experienced (25:00); what Las Vegas is like outside of (and in tandem with) the narrative cliches that have come to define it (39:00); how major league sports teams and Formula One racing have changed Las Vegas, and what movies about the city might look like in the future (46:00). Novelist Tod Goldberg is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, most notably the Gangsterland series of crime novels. He is also the producer, along with Martin Scorsese and Brian Koppelman, for The Roman, an upcoming Las Vegas casino drama series at Netflix. Notable Links: Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) The joys of Jane’s Addiction (Deviate episode) Las Vegas Strip (tourist gambling area) The Last Showgirl (2024 movie) Leaving Las Vegas (1995 movie) The Godfather Part II (1974 movie) Casino (1995 movie) About Sunny (2011 movie) Dave Hickey (art critic) The Hangover (2009 movie) Las Vegas Chinatown (district) What Happens Here, Stays Here (2003 Las Vegas ad campaign) Swingers (1996 movie) Star Trek: The Experience (former attraction in Las Vegas) SEMA auto show (annual car accessory show in Las Vegas) Odyssey: Driving Around the World (auto expedition Rolf wrote about)

“That first day in Mumbai, there was the slum to the side of us, there were sports cars that would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars next to people walking with no feet next to 200 people crammed into a bus. Separating those layers in a nuanced way lifts the writing that shows that you've gone there and been respectful of the people who live here.” – Luke Richardson In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Luke talk about Rolf's earliest travel adventures, why going slowly and spontaneously is the best way to travel, and what it's like to travel during times of natural disaster (2:00); how to write travel stories that are both interesting to the home audience and respectful of local communities, and how some of the best travel narratives are quest narratives (9:00); the tension between truth and possibility in storytelling, Rolf's "stranger than fiction" moments on the road, and narratives that inspired Rolf's early travels (17:30); Luke's adventure novels, and the travels that informed them (28:30); how Luke takes notes and records his adventures on the road, and how he writes about places he's never been (35:00); and Luke's advice for people wanting to write fictional adventure novels (41:00). Luke Richardson is a traveler, author, and DJ based in England. His adventure novels include The Ark Files, The Atlantis Agenda, and The Giza Protocol. He hosts the Adventure Story Podcast. Notable Links: Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf's annual creative writing classes) Jumping freight trains in the Pacific NW (Deviate episode) Alexander Supertramp (Into the Wild protagonist Chris McCandless) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Vagabonding, by Rolf Potts (2003 book) The WEIRDest People in the World, by Joseph Henrich (2020 book) Toura Incognita, by Rolf Potts (2001 article that mentions spirit possession in Laos) Brentwood, Los Angeles (wealthy suburb in California) Marco Polo Didn't Go There, Rolf Potts (2008 book) Martin and Osa Johnson (1920s adventurers and filmmakers) Lake Paradise (wilderness area in northern Kenta) On the Trans-Siberian Express, by Rolf Potts (1999 essay) No Baggage Challenge (Rolf's 2010 round the world journey) Apocalypse Not: One Month on the Mekong, by Rolf Potts (1999 essay) In medias res (literary device) Malekula (island in V...

"All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you're writing about -- the figure in the landscape -- is actually the ideal." —Paul Theroux Paul Theroux's highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux's book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the "human architecture of a place" (5:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (20:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (25:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (32:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (40:15); and where Paul is traveling next (46:00). Media mentioned in the 2026 intro Deviate Mini-Essays: Creative Free-Writes for Life's Journey (Substack newsletter) 6 Travel Podcasts to Inspire Your Next Trip (New York Times article) Kansas Never Plays Itself (non-travel Deviate episode) 2024 Deviate Super Bowl Special (non-travel Deviate episode) A mixtape (of sorts) about mixtapes (non-travel Deviate episode) The most 1980s underdog story of the 1980s (non-travel Deviate episode) A personal history of my grunge-bandwagon band (non-travel Deviate episode) Nine lessons from my failed van-life memoir (non-travel Deviate episode) Books, articles, and films mentioned "Paul Theroux on Blogging, Travel Writing, and 'Three Cups of Tea'" (2011 Atlantic interview) The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux The Mosquito Coast, by Paul Theroux The Tao of Travel, by Paul Theroux Deep South, by Paul Theroux American Notes, by Charles Dickens Barbary Shore, by Norman Mailer Journey Without Maps, by Graham Greene Sea and Sardinia, by D.H. Lawrence Travels, by Ibn Battuta Travels, by Marco Polo Lafcadio Hearn's Japan: An Ant...

“"When I was in the third grade my teacher announced to our class that Ronald Reagan had been shot. When she asked if we had questions, I raised my hand and asked her if the Indiana - North Carolina basketball game was still going to happen that night.” – Chuck Klosterman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Chuck, and Michael hypothesize about where in Texas the town of "Dillon" is in the TV show Friday Night Lights (2:30); the role of sports and sports movies in how people perceive Indiana, and which sports fandoms are independent of geography (17:00); sports movies (and hypothetical sports movies) set in Michael's hometown of State College, PA, or Chuck's home-state of North Dakota, or Rolf's hometown of Wichita (27:00); working-class sports cities with bad reputations, and how geography determines the sports stories that are told there (40:00); the inherent placelessness of the NFL Scouting Combine and the Super Bowl, how sports are the last media events where the outcome is truly unknown, and what the best hypothetical scenario is for diehard fans watching a big game (50:00). Chuck Klosterman is a cultural critic known for analyzing pop culture, sports, and philosophy. He is the author of 13 books, including Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs, The Nineties, and, most recently, Football. Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Bigger Than the Game and  Season of Saturdays. His Substack newsletter is called Throwbacks: A Newsletter About Sports History and Culture. Notable Links: Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay) The Rewatchables (Ringer Network podcast) Friday Night Lights (TV show) Pflugerville, Texas (shooting Location of Friday Night Lights) Odessa, Texas (setting of the book Friday Night Lights) Friday Night Lights: A Town, a Team, and a Dream (book) Friday Night Lights (2004 film) Perfect Strangers (TV series) Jesse Plemons (actor in Friday Night Lights) Hoosiers (1986 movie) Bob Knight (Indiana basketball coach from 1971–2000) Season on the Brink, by John Feinstein (book) Gene Hackman (actor in Hoosiers) Woody Hayes (football coach)

“A joke is kind of like a little life-lesson in addition to being funny. If your joke is really good, there's a little nugget of truth in it.” – Cedar Van Tassel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Cedar discuss why kids want to be paleontologists and astronauts, and the existential "book" Cedar wrote when he was four (2:00); how Cedar got started reading comics, which ones were his favorites, and his own early comics projects (8:00); the golden age of webcomics, and how Appleguy got started (16:00); the world of Appleguy and Beefwood, and its "roadside attraction" and other geographical subplots (24:00); how Cedar went from drawing an Instagram comic to having a book of comics published by a major North American indie comics publisher, and what his creative process looks like (37:30); and Cedar's four pieces of creative advice: 1) Be opportunistic; 2) Give yourself some rules; 3) Don't torture yourself; 4) People will find your interest in something interesting. Cedar Van Tassel (@appleguy_comix) is the author of Appleguy and Beefwood, which was published by the iconic Montreal comics press Drawn & Quarterly in May of 2026. A lifelong plant and prairie lover, he does work on ecological restoration projects throughout the Great Plains. Notable Links: Seinfeld (TV show) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) The Misadventures of Wenamun, by Rolf Potts (comic book) Paleontology (using fossils to study the past) Calvin and Hobbes (daily comic strip) The Complete Calvin and Hobbes (comics anthology) Scott McCloud (cartoonist and comics theorist) The Simpsons (animated TV sitcom) Webcomics (comics published directly online) Garfield (daily comic strip) "The Dark Side of Travel Romance" (Deviate episode) Ents (tree humanoids in Lord of the Rings) S.P. Dinsmoor's Garden of Eden (roadside attraction in Kansas) World's Largest Belt Buckle (roadside attraction in Kansas) World's Largest Czech Egg (roadside attraction in Kansas) World's Largest Collection of the World's Smallest Versions of the World's Largest Things Biggest ball of twine (roadside attraction in Kansas) Marshall McLuhan (media theorist)

“When we don't foster local filmmaking traditions, we end up making movies about what we think life is like in the cities we do see movies about.” – Jason Bailey In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jason talk about how being from Kansas influenced their careers as travel writers and film critics, and the long cultural shadow of The Wizard of Oz (2:30); how Jason's career started by making independent movies in Wichita, what those movies were like, and how he remembers them now (9:00); how many New York movies were shot in Los Angeles in the early part of the 20th century (19:00); how filmmaking moved back to New York during a less-than-glamorous time in the city's history, and how it's important to tell one more story about a place (26:00); and how technology might change the way movies are made and watched in the future (32:00). Jason Bailey (@jasondashbailey) is an author and film critic, whose writing has appeared in such publications as the New York Times and Rolling Stone. He is the author of six books, including Fun City Cinema: New York City and the Movies that Made It, and Pulp Fiction: The Complete Story of Quentin Tarantino’s Masterpiece.  Notable Links: Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay) Celebrating the genius of Pulp Fiction (Deviate episode) Joan Didion (American author and essayist) Lady Bird (2017 film) Fargo (1996 film) The Wizard of Oz at Sphere (4D AI film in Las Vegas) Alissa Wilkinson (American film critic) Richard Brody (American critic) Pauline Kael (American critic) My Day in the Barrel (1998 Jason Bailey movie) Salvage anthropology (method of documenting declining cultures) Los Angeles Plays Itself (2003 essay film) Actuality film (early type of nonfiction motion picture) Martin Scorsese (American filmmaker) The Naked City (1948 film) Fame (1980 film) Jim Jarmusch (American filmmaker) John Cassavetes (American filmmaker) Media 100 (video editing system) Microdrama (serialized short-form online video) Mumblecore (subgenre of independent film) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017...

“I asked everyone if they were lonely. All the guys my age said 'no, I'm too busy; too much going on.' When I answer that quickly I'm either lying or it's something I'm afraid of.” – Andrew McCarthy In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about why Andrew took a USA road trip to reconnect with his friends (2:15); what kinds of friends Andrew sought out, why none of them were public figures, and how loneliness is bad for men's health (8:00); the kinds of men Andrew spoke with in passing on the trip, why Andrew sought out Elvis Presley sites on the road, and how women's friendships differ from men's (17:30); Andrew's takeaways from his road trip, why "showing up" for people is important, and how travel can be the "university of life" (28:00); audience questions about friendships between younger men, the rumored possibility of a St. Elmo's Fire sequel, the task of recording an audiobook, creepy things that happened on the road, and how travel inevitably makes us more open and curious (35:30). Andrew McCarthy (@AndrewTMcCarthy) is an actor, television director and writer of such books as The Longest Way Home, Brat and Walking with Sam. His newest book is Who Needs Friends: An Unscientific Examination of Male Friendship Across America. Notable Links: Tips for telling travel stories, with Andrew McCarthy (Deviate episode) Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes) Travels with Charley in Search of America, by John Steinbeck (book) Brat Pack (group of young 1980s actors) Elvis Presley Birthplace (museum site in Tupelo, Mississippi) Camps Promising to Turn You into an Alpha Male (article) Comstock, Texas (incorporated community) Joshua Speed (close friend of Abraham Lincoln) St. Elmo's Fire (1985 movie) Geoff Dyer (English author and travel writer) Strawberry Hill (neighborhood in Kansas City, Kansas) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at [email protected].

"I think you have to pick your battles when you're collaborating with people." – Kim Krizan Kim Krizan (@kimkrizan) is the Oscar-nominated cowriter of the Before Sunrise movies, and the author of Spy in the House of Anaïs Nin. Notable Links: Kim Krizan on the philosophy of Before Sunrise (YouTube video) Screenwriting in Paris class, with Kim Krizan (creative writing class) Paris Writing Workshops (summer learning-vacation classes) Before Sunrise (1995 movie) Ethan Hawke (American actor and director) Julie Delpy (French actress and director) Richard Linklater (American filmmaker) Slacker (1990 film) Dazed and Confused (1993 film) Anaïs Nin (French-American diarist and novelist) Reality Bites (1994 movie) Robin Wright (American actress) Lili Taylor (American actress) The Prater (public park in Vienna) Waking Life (2001 film) Forrest Mallard editing and marketing services Kansas Never Plays Itself (video essay by Rolf Potts)

“I wish I loved sports, and particularly football, a lot less than I do. It consumes too much of my memory and too much of my time.” – Chuck Klosterman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about why he's talking to Chuck Klosterman's former roommate Michael Weinreb about Chuck's book Football, rather than Chuck himself (2:00); football-themed video games, and the difference between emotional and analytical sports fandom (7:00); Pico Iyer's appearance in the movie Marty Supreme, how podcasting has changed the landscape, and how streaming video has become the standard way to watch even high school football (17:00); why going to football games in person is a "pagan" experience of games that is completely different than watching them on TV, and how there's a travel parallel in experiencing distant places in person (24:00); how important the season and the weather is to the experience of football at both the experiential and metaphorical level (32:00); what might become of football, and why it persists as the object of fandom even by people who've never played it (39:00). Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) is the author of three sports books, including Game of Kings; Bigger Than the Game; and  Season of Saturdays. He has been a contributing writer for ESPN, The New York Times, Grantland, Rolling Stone, The Athletic, and The Ringer. His Substack newsletter is called Throwbacks: A Newsletter About Sports History and Culture. Notable Links: Kicking & Screaming might be the best movie ever (Deviate episode) Back to Penn State (2011 This American Life episode) Chuck Klosterman (author and essayist) Fargo Rock City, by Chuck Klosterman (2001 book) EA Sports College Football (video game) Super Bowl LV (game the Chiefs lost to the Buccaneers) Super Bowl LIX (game the Chiefs lost to the Eagles) A travel writers’ Super Bowl special (Deviate episode) Pico Iyer (travel writer and novelist) Marty Supreme (2025 sports comedy-drama film) Chick Hearn (Los Angeles Lakers announcer) Wesley Morris on Deviate Bill Simmons (American sportswriter and cultural critic) Football History Deep Dive (Bill Simmons Podcast episode) 2025 Kansas 1A football championship (high school game video)