CDO Matters Podcast

Context is at the top of the hype cycle, and every vendor claims a piece of it. Malcolm Hawker, former Gartner analyst, argues trust needs two equal parts. Meaning: the system knows what you're asking, like what counts as an active customer. Truth: the answer is right, including whether Acme Inc and Acme Co are one customer or two. He shows how Anthropic, building Claude into its own analytics, learned more context doesn't fix truth. Investing in semantic layers but not in accurate data? This one's for you.

Agents are about to hit data systems and governance frameworks at a volume, velocity, and variety they were never designed for. Bolting AI onto the old model may turn out to be the riskier bet.📌 In this episode:Why agents bring back the three Vs of big data, and why even Google-scale systems weren't built for that much concurrencyWinfried's first-principles view of governance: negotiation, direction, and accountabilityWhy longer guardrail lists make agents worse at following rules, and why "human in the loop" is too passive a roleWhy data governance belongs inside corporate governance, not beside separate AI, IT, and risk frameworks💬 The takeaway: "So much of what we've built over the last thirty years has become so monolithic and so big and so inflexible... I think we may be better off just starting from scratch." — Malcolm HawkerAbout the host + guests Malcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Guest: Joe Reis is [Owner, Data Engineer + Architect ] at ThinkQuick, LLC. Author of Mixed Model Arts, which rebuilds data modeling from first principles for both humans and AI agents. Guest: Winfried Etzel is [Sr Specialist Data Management and Podcast Host with DAMA Norway] at Equinor. Author of Data Governance in the Wild, which rethinks governance from first principles.Subscribe to CDO Matters Monthly → https://profisee.com/cdo-matters-community/#join-community Follow Malcolm on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/malhawker/ Guest → https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephreis/ Guest → https://www.linkedin.com/in/winfried-adalbert-etzel/

Companies are handing agents real decision-making authority. Almost none of them have figured out who's accountable when the agent gets it wrong.📌 In this episode:Why "the business owns the data" was never a real governance strategy and why AI autonomy makes that obviousThe case for formalizing data decision frameworks into agentic decision frameworks, RACI matrix and allWhy every automated decision still needs a human name in the "accountable" column, and what regulators are already demandingWhat "governance as code" really means: front-loading human judgment into system design, then codifying it to move at machine speed💬 The takeaway: "It should be that someone ends up uncomfortable and they start asking questions — because the more questions you ask, the more thought goes into what possibly could go badly." — Kelle O'NealAbout the host + guest: Malcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Guest: Kelle O'Neal is CEO and founder of First San Francisco Partners.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelleoneal/

Most data teams think they're too busy to slow down. The real problem is they're too busy taking orders to ever be seen as anything but a cost center.📌 In this episode:The real difference between a "product owner" and a "product manager" and why most data teams are stuck playing the formerWhy Nick Zervoudis argues data democratization isn't automatically good, using a peanut-butter-aisle analogy for customer segmentationThe vendor-funded origin story behind the entire "data literacy" movement traced back to a Qlik-commissioned reportNick's "shift left, shift right" framework for product thinking, and why you need both to serve human and AI-agent customers alike💬 The takeaway: "If you run your organization as a service desk and an order taker, then you are a tax on the business." — Malcolm HawkerAbout the host + guest: Malcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Guest: Nick Zervoudis is a data product management consultant, trainer, and founder of Value from Data and AI.https://www.linkedin.com/in/nzervoudis/

Executives at the World Economic Forum in Davos are asking for data governance but the data profession wasn't in the room to answer. The gap isn't the business's understanding. It's ours.📌 In this episode:Why Donna Burbank found business leaders, not data teams, driving governance conversations at Davos this yearThe flip from "data literacy" to "business literacy" and why the old term is judgmentalDonna's "Semantic Pedanticism Feedback Loop" and how jargon fights kill credibility in front of executivesWhy "assume positive intent" isn't enough on its own. You have to assume positive intelligence too💬 The takeaway: "We tend to sit in our own little silo and say, how come the business isn't hearing us? Because we're talking to ourselves about others." — Donna BurbankAbout the host + guest: Malcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Guest: Donna Burbank is founder and managing director of Global Data Strategy, a firm focused on data strategy and hands-on implementation.

Every CDO is being told to make their data AI-ready. What that actually requires is a harder conversation — and this episode gets into it.📌 In this episode:Why vector embeddings alone aren't enough for enterprise AI — and what knowledge graphs provide that vectors fundamentally can'tHow the Semantic Web's original vision for open metadata standards maps directly to what CDOs are being asked to build for AI todayWhy knowledge graphs aren't as technically heavy a lift as most CDOs assume — and what a practical starting point looks likeHow MDM and knowledge graphs can work together to get CDOs beyond the 360-degree view they've been chasing for decades💬 The takeaway: "The knowledge graph is kind of a translator between natural language and the data and by that, far more people can make use of the data and ask questions across different data silos." — Andreas BlumauerAbout the host and guestMalcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Andreas Blumauer is SVP Growth & Marketing at Graphwise and founder of the Semantic Web Company.🔗 Watch + full transcript: [profisee.com/podcast/making-data-ai-ready-with-knowledge-graphs-summer-replay]Subscribe to CDO Matters Monthly → https://profisee.com/cdo-matters-community/#join-communityFollow Malcolm on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/malhawker/Guest → https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreasblumauer/

Most CDOs talk about data products. Very few approach them the way a product manager would starting with customer need, validating demand, and building only what people will actually use.📌 In this episode:Why scalability without proven demand is a bridge to nowhere and how CDOs fall into that trap constantlyWhat "outside-in" product management looks like in a data function and why it changes everything about how you prioritizeHow Jonathan Reeve's team at BetaNext links financial data assets to create insights clients didn't know they neededWhy influence and storytelling aren't soft skills for data leaders they're the job💬 The takeaway: "You hold the keys to the kingdom. If you're managing data better, you've got the power to influence innovation, product direction, and where investment goes." — Jonathan ReeveAbout the host and guestMalcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Jonathan Reeve is Chief Product Officer at BetaNext, a financial services data company.🔗 Watch + full transcript: profisee.com/podcast/data-as-a-product-summer-replaySubscribe to CDO Matters Monthly → https://profisee.com/cdo-matters-community/#join-communityFollow Malcolm on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/malhawker/Guest → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-reeve-5a62271/

A Delaware state court ruling rewrote the rules on corporate liability and CDOs are directly in the crosshairs. This is our most-played episode ever, and if you haven't heard it, now's your moment.📌 In this episode:What the Delaware Chancery Court ruling means for data leaders and why fiduciary duty now extends to every corporate officer, not just the board and CEOWhy bad data quality is no longer just an operational problem it's a legal and reputational one, with real personal liability attachedWhy AI is rapidly eliminating the "zone of ambiguity" that data leaders have operated in for decadesWhy aligning your data function closer to the CFO might be the smartest career move a CDO can make right now💬 The takeaway: "Compliance and audit and regulatory risk drives a lot of investment in business. It always has. Don't be afraid of using this as a lever." — Malcolm HawkerAbout the host and guestMalcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. Mark Stouse is CEO of Proof Analytics and a former Fortune 500 CMO with extensive experience as an expert witness in data-related litigation.🔗 Watch + full transcript: [profisee.com/podcast/a-state-court-ruling-just-changed-the-game-are-cdos-ready-summer-replay]Subscribe to CDO Matters Monthly → https://profisee.com/cdo-matters-community/#join-communityFollow Malcolm on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/malhawker/Guest → https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstouse/

Most CDOs are still measuring AI readiness with a BI-readiness checklist and it's costing them. 80 to 90 percent of enterprise data is unstructured, sitting outside every governance program built over the last three decades.📌 In this episode:The split Malcolm calls "the world of measurement vs. the world of meaning" and why Gen AI lives entirely in the latterWhy only 25% of the data feeding AI models today is actually governed (per Dresner Research)Why a product manager and a value engineer might matter more right now than any new governance policyWhy the 30-year-old model of data ownership breaks down in an AI-driven world and what it needs to become instead💬 The takeaway: "You get budgets of millions of dollars to solve this problem but every day we disempower ourselves by saying 'garbage in, garbage out.'"About the host: Malcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast. This keynote was recorded live at the CDO Magazine CDO/CAO Summit.If you liked this episode: Check out "Beyond Data Catalogs: Building Context for AI and Data Products (Ep. 87)"Subscribe to CDO Matters Monthly → https://profisee.com/cdo-matters-community/#join-communityFollow Malcolm on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/malhawker/

Most organizations are committing serious capital to AI and can't answer a basic question: how much are we actually spending, and on what? That accountability gap is about to close, whether data leaders are ready or not.📌 In this episode:Why fewer than 5% of large companies can accurately track AI spend as a distinct category — and what happens when the CFO gets involvedThe Vane Loop framework: a quadrant-based approach to scoring data and AI investments on feasibility and impact across 70+ factorsWhy AI architecture decisions are now financial variables — and why most product managers aren't equipped to make themThe strategic case for decommissioning: why building a library of reusable skills beats running 200 half-finished use cases💬 The takeaway: "If you don't manage your costs, your costs will be managed for you." — Malcolm Hawker, Episode 104About the host + guest: Malcolm Hawker is a former Gartner analyst, Chief Data Officer at Profisee, Editor-in-Chief of CDO Matters on Substack, and host of the CDO Matters Podcast.Karl Ivo Sokolov is Managing Director at Specific Group Austria and co-author of Finance, Grade Data and AI Products. He sits on the US Institute of Management Accountants board and is the creator of the Vane Loop framework for AI portfolio steering.