Better Future with Michael Mezz

My guest today is Dr. Isabella Weber – German economist and author of the new book Anti-Fascist Economics: In Defense of Affordability, Dignity, and Democracy. Isabella is an associate professor of economics at UMass Amherst and the founding director of Essential Economics. Her first book, How China Escaped Shock Therapy, won the Joan Robinson and Keynes prizes. In 2021, she argued that targeted price controls could help bring inflation down – and much of her profession dismissed her for it. She went on to serve on the German government’s gas price commission, and she’s a TIME100 Next honoree.In this episode, we discuss how neoliberalism paved the way for a global fascist takeover: governments beat the drum of democracy right up until it challenges corporate power, then tell us nothing can be done about the fact that we work full-time and still can’t afford the basics. We debunk the myth that markets are neutral and natural, and look at how fascists offer an alternative to neoliberalism: market intervention, but only for the ingroup. Then Isabella lays out the rebuttal: anti-fascist economics, or “an economy for the dignity of all” – a floor under everyone’s livelihood, a ceiling on extreme wealth, a job guarantee, and public options like Mamdani’s grocery stores. We end with affordability as a matter of international peace, and the case for universal basic services so that no one is treated as collateral damage.Better Future is an independent, listener-supported podcast; if you enjoyed this episode, please support us by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack, where we also publish frequent articles: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Check out her new book, Anti-Fascist Economics: https://bookshop.org/p/books/anti-fascist-economics-isabella-weber/9fcaca74a06122f5Here are links to resources mentioned in our conversation:Isabella's 2021 Guardian piece arguing for strategic price controls, the one that set off the backlash: https://www.theguardian.com/business/commentisfree/2021/dec/29/inflation-price-controls-time-we-use-itSellers' Inflation, Profits and Conflict, her paper with Evan Wasner on why large firms can hike prices in an emergency: https://peri.umass.edu/wp-content/uploads/joomla/images/publication/WP571.pdfHow China Escaped Shock Therapy, Isabella's first book, on the history of price control debates: https://bookshop.org/p/books/how-china-escaped-shock-therapy-the-market-reform-debate-isabella-m-weber/16090472Mayor Mamdani's city-owned grocery stores in New York: https://www.npr.org/2026/07/28/g-s1-135938/mamdani-nyc-grocery-storesFollow Dr. Isabella Weber: Substack: https://isabellamweber.substack.com/Instagram: https://instagram.com/isabella_m_weber X: https://x.com/IsabellaMWeberSubscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfvHost/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Dr. Isabella Weber Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Thanks for watching episode 021. Stay tuned for more. #isabellaweber #economics #affordability #antifascisteconomics

My guest today is Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson – marine biologist and author of What If We Get It Right?: Visions of Climate Futures. She’s the co-founder of the ocean policy think tank Urban Ocean Lab, co-editor of the bestselling anthology All We Can Save, and the host of the podcast, What If We Get It Right?.In this episode, we discuss why we have all the climate solutions we need, how tech bros are trying to co-opt the mainstream climate discourse with anti-human solutions, and why we can’t wait to dismantle capitalism before we charge ahead with the solutions we already have. We take a sober look at the problems we face and the ways to remedy them, and why techno-futuristic solutions aren’t going to cut it. We end our conversation with a look at the “big spectrum of possible futures” that we can shape – even incrementally – if we can imagine what getting it right looks like. Better Future is an independent, listener-supported podcast; if you enjoyed this episode, please support us by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack, where we also publish frequent articles: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Learn more about Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson and her work: https://www.ayanaelizabeth.com/Check out her book, What If We Get It Right?: Visions of Climate Futures: https://bookshop.org/p/books/what-if-we-get-it-right-visions-of-climate-futurism-ayana-elizabeth-johnson/19507444Thanks to Dear Crisis for hosting this live conversation during NY Climate Week at Caravan of Dreams. Learn more about Dear Crisis, an NYC-based community dedicated to turning crisis into connection and connection into action: https://dearcrisis.com/Here are links to resources mentioned in our conversation:Ayana’s podcast What if We Get it Right?: https://www.getitright.earth/podcastThe Planetary Health Check from Planetary Guardians: https://planetaryhealthcheck.org/Banking on Climate Chaos, the report tracking fossil fuel financing by the world's biggest banks: https://bankingonclimatechaos.org/The Environmental Voter Project’s findings on the environmentalists who don't vote: https://www.environmentalvoter.org/updates/how-big-oil-convinced-11-million-climate-voters-stay-homeMedia Matters on how little climate coverage corporate TV news aired in 2024: https://www.mediamatters.org/broadcast-networks/how-broadcast-tv-networks-covered-climate-change-2024Follow Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ayanaeliza/ Substack: https://ayanaelizabeth.substack.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayanaelizabeth/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ayanaeliza.bsky.socialX: https://twitter.com/ayanaelizaSubscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfvFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/00:00 Let’s use the climate solutions we already have 00:30 Introducing Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson 01:45 The climate stakes of this moment 04:59 Stop funding Big Oil: move your money08:01 We can’t wait for technology to save us10:07 What if we got it right with our oceans?12:57 Tradeoffs and purity tests in the climate movement16:39 Tech billionaires and their anti-human vision for the future 19:19 We can't wait for a new economy before acting on climate 25:27 Why we need more environmentalists to vote34:43 A political opening for the climate movement?43:50 Expanding the clean energy movement46:39 Imagining possible futures53:40 Finding hope amidst political chaos58:50 ConclusionHost/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado 

My guest today is Maurice Mitchell, National Director of the Working Families Party – one of the leading progressive institutions in U.S. politics today. Their platform includes universal health care, “a home you can afford,” paid family leave, and a unionized national jobs program – all paid for by taxing the rich. In this episode, we start by discussing the tech billionaire takeover of our political system, the technofascist ideology underpinning the AI race, and the techbros’ radically anti-human vision for the future. Then we get into why now is the time to build a movement that takes advantage of the widest populist opening we’ve seen in decades. We delve into the failure of the two-party system, the need for another option, and how “fusion voting” can give us more nuanced voting power. Then we end with what it’ll actually take to build – and wield – political power, getting real about the work it will take.Better Future is an independent, listener-supported podcast; if you enjoyed this episode, please support us by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack, where we also publish frequent articles: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Learn more about the Working Families Party: https://workingfamilies.org/Learn more about their 2026 candidates, including Randy Villegas, Mai Vang, Jane Kim and Chris Rabb: https://workingfamilies.org/candidates/Here are links to resources mentioned in our conversation:The Working Families Guarantee, the WFP's platform: https://workingfamilies.org/guarantee/Building Resilient Organizations, Maurice's 2022 essay on maximalism and what weakens progressive organizations: https://forgeorganizing.org/article/building-resilient-organizations/The TESCREAL Bundle by Timnit Gebru and Émile P. Torres, the paper mapping the ideologies behind the AI race: https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/13636The Movement for Black Lives: https://m4bl.org/Our episode with Dr. Butch Ware on the failures of the two-party system: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/p/can-the-us-empire-be-dismantled-fromOur episode with Gabriel Zucman on why we must tax billionaires: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/p/billionaire-tax-gabriel-zucmanFollow Maurice on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mauricewfp/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maurice-mitchell-3071b06/X: https://x.com/mauricewfpFollow the Working Families Party: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workingfamilies/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/workingfamilies.org X: https://x.com/workingfamiliesSubscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfvFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/00:00 Building political power for a pro-humanity future00:34 Introducing Maurice Mitchell and the Working Families Party 06:44 Why this moment is ripe for political transformation11:29 The anti-human ideology of the AI oligarchs18:22 The radicalization of tech billionaires 26:25 How AI is harming working Americans today29:42 How to build power in this populist window35:20 Building an on-ramp for regretful Trump voters39:09 Unpacking the Working Families Guarantee 48:47 Why winning in November isn't enough to stop authoritarianism57:32 How fusion voting works 1:03:23 Third party political strategy: what sets WFP apart1:11:51 Maximalism as a trauma response to fascism 1:18:47 How to get involvedHost/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Maurice Mitchell Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea WadsworthThanks for watching episode 019. Stay tuned for more.

My guest today is Dr. Gabriel Zucman, the world's leading expert on wealth taxes. He’s a professor at both the Paris School of Economics and UC Berkeley, and he’s the author of several books, including his most recent: We Need To Tax Billionaires. We recorded this conversation during the lead up to the November 2026 elections in the US, when Californians will vote on Prop 40. If passed, it would be the first-ever tax on the net wealth of ultra-rich people in the history of the US.In this episode, Prof. Zucman explains how the ultra-wealthy in the US and Europe have managed to pay a lower effective tax rate than average citizens, and how their tax avoidance has led to massive inequality and the erosion of democracy around the world. He debunks common myths against a wealth tax, and explains why wealth taxes are necessary for a functioning democracy. We end on what’s currently at stake in California, and how Prop 40 could be the first domino to fall in a global fight to normalize wealth taxes on the ultra-rich.Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack, where we also publish frequent articles: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Learn more about Gabriel Zucman and his work: https://gabriel-zucman.eu/Check out Dr. Zucman’s new book, We Need to Tax Billionaires: https://gabriel-zucman.eu/we-need-to-tax-billionaires/Thanks to Shared Future for sponsoring this episode. #SharedFuturePartnerHere are links to resources mentioned in our conversation:The Hidden Wealth of Nations, Prof. Zucman’s book on tax havens: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/H/bo20159822.htmlHow Much Tax Do Billionaires Pay? Evidence from Administrative Data – NBER: https://www.nber.org/papers/w34170California Billionaires: Wealth, Taxes, and Wealth Tax Revenue Estimates – NBER: https://www.nber.org/papers/w35218ProPublica's 2021 article on the IRS file leak that showed what US billionaires actually pay in taxes: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-taxThe California Proposition 40 Official Voter Information Guide: https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/40/The Yes on 40 campaign: https://yeson40.com/Follow Gabriel Zucman on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gabriel.zucman/Instagram (English): https://www.instagram.com/gabrielzucman.english/LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/gabriel-zucmanSubstack: https://substack.com/@gabrielzucmanX: https://x.com/gabriel_zucman Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833 Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfvFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/00:00 California’s billionaire tax: a matter of democracy vs oligarchy 00:36 Introducing Dr. Gabriel Zucman 04:43 How tax havens hide the wealth of billionaires09:18 Why the billionaire tax is part of an unfinished revolution12:37 Billionaires pay a lower tax rate than we do20:46 How wealth inequality erodes democracy26:04 Debunking common myths against wealth taxes36:06 Ending tax competition between countries41:48 Wealth taxes don’t actually slow innovation46:20 How Gabriel’s global wealth tax would work 54:08 The USA’s history of high income taxes57:56 What’s at stake with California's billionaire tax 1:10:35 ConclusionHost/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Gabriel Zucman Producer: Jade Risser Editor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea WadsworthThanks for watching episode 018. Stay tuned for more!

My guest today is Dr. Timothée Parrique – ecological economist and author of Slow Down or Die: The Economics of Degrowth. Tim is one of the clearest and most-cited academics in the degrowth movement. We recorded this conversation in Paris in the middle of a heat wave – fitting conditions for a conversation about overshooting planetary boundaries.Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack, where we also publish frequent articles about system change: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/ This episode was filmed at the Académie du Climat, Paris's climate-education hub, which generously provided the space – merci! https://www.academieduclimat.paris/ In this episode, we break down the problems with economic growth, and why Tim calls green growth "macroeconomic greenwashing." We explore what degrowth would be like in daily life – working less, sharing more, and reclaiming what sociologists call “time wealth.” Then Tim lays out how a post-capitalist economy would actually work: democratic businesses, participatory budgeting, Vienna-style nonprofit housing, local currencies, wealth caps, and a monetary system designed to sustainably deliver social and ecological returns. We end with the gift economy, and why the best things in life have never shown up in GDP.Learn more about Timothée Parrique and his work: https://timotheeparrique.com/Check out Tim's mom's choir, Chœur Dédicace :)https://choeurdedicace.fr/Here are links to the resources mentioned in our conversation: Tim's book, Slow Down or Die: The Economics of Degrowth:https://bookshop.org/p/books/slow-down-or-die-the-economics-of-degrowth-timoth-e-parrique/621938db18e607a5Our episode with Johan Rockström on planetary boundaries:hhttps://open.spotify.com/episode/7k0jRrHuX1dgTAdZ9h2rLy?si=KFZh2YHlTpS-VrQZhzHfpwProsperity Without Growth by Tim Jackson:https://timjackson.org.uk/ecological-economics/pwg/Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth, by philosopher Ingrid Robeyns:https://astrapublishinghouse.com/product/limitarianism-9781662601842/Vienna's nonprofit housing model, which keeps median rents at roughly half of Paris levels:https://socialhousing.wien/policy/the-vienna-modelThe Eusko, the Basque Country local currency Tim pays for his baguettes with – currently the largest local currency in France:https://www.euskalmoneta.org/Follow Tim on social media:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timotheeparrique/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothée-parrique-7b593450/Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/timparrique.bsky.social Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezzSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfv Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/00:00 Green growth: Macroeconomic greenwashing00:53 Introducing Timothée Parrique01:45 Ecological issues with economic growth04:39 Does more growth in developed countries improve lives?07:58 Can growth be “green?”15:46 Can capitalism be “green?”20:43 Degrowth vs. recession32:18 What degrowth would be like: work less, live more41:07 Moving away from advertising & consumption50:47 What is post-capitalism? Toward a democratic economy59:16 Liberating resources for development & wellbeing1:03:45 How do we get there? Removing growth imperatives1:10:54 Financing post-capitalism: a new monetary system1:24:04 Decentralizing power via wealth caps1:33:49 Demonetarization, melting currencies & the gift economy1:39:19 Conclusion  Host/Creator: Michael MezzatestaGuest: Timothée ParriqueProducer: Jade RisserEditor: Nuria Salgado Thanks for watching episode 017. Stay tuned for more!

My guest today is Dr. Jason Hickel – professor at the Institute for Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and author of The Divide and Less Is More. This is our second conversation on the podcast, and it comes at a moment of escalating geopolitical violence – in Iran, Lebanon, Cuba, and beyond.In this episode, we get into how these conflicts are symptoms of capitalist imperialism: Western states asserting dominance over sovereign-seeking states to protect their own growth. We dive into ecosocialism as an alternative to capitalism, and what economic democracy actually looks like in practice. We cover China’s rise – how its economy actually works, why the West has turned against it, and what it means for the Global South – and we end with a discussion of how to build the mass movements capable of bringing a better future to life.You can support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack:https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Here are links to the resources mentioned in our conversation:Mondragon Corporation, the worker-owned cooperative federation in Spain that Jason mentions as a real-world model of economic democracy: https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/GKN Factory in Florence, Italy, which workers have converted from an auto parts plant into a solar panel factory: https://jacobin.com/2023/04/italy-gkn-factory-occupation-transform-production-workers-jobs-climate-changeJason’s Substack article on “delinking”: https://jasonhickel.substack.com/p/what-is-delinkingGlobal Inequality Project, a research platform by Jason and team that publishes data on imperialism, unequal exchange, and global inequality: https://globalinequality.org/Learn more about Jason Hickel and his work: https://www.jasonhickel.org/Follow Jason Hickel on social media: Twitter: https://x.com/jasonhickel Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjasonhickel/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jasonhickel.bsky.socialSubscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezzSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfvFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/00:00 What capitalism really is01:09 Introducing Jason Hickel02:20 Capitalist imperialism in action: Venezuela, Iran, Lebanon05:27 Why the US supports Israel08:45 Capitalism, coups & the war on sovereignty22:13 How capitalism creates poverty25:25 Socialism as a solution31:41 Why solving the climate crisis means overcoming capitalism36:09 Economic democracy in practice48:09 Elections vs. revolution: building a mass movement57:01 The immiseration of the Western working class59:28 Socialism is our best alternative to fascism 1:06:31 The limits of identity politics1:13:52 Why the West fears China’s rise1:20:16 How China builds what the West won’t1:32:54 Delinking from the capitalist law of value 1:38:02 Hope for a better future1:46:51 ConclusionHost/Creator: Michael MezzatestaGuest: Jason HickelEditor: Nuria SalgadoDesigner: Amea WadsworthProducer: Jade RisserThanks for watching episode 016. Stay tuned for more!

My guest today is Johan Rockström – one of the world’s leading climate scientists and the co-creator of the ‘planetary boundaries’ framework. His work is the scientific foundation for much of the new economic thinking I've explored on this show.We recorded this conversation at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, and our discussion covers why the climate crisis is no longer a purely environmental or moral issue but a question of security, resilience, and prosperity. We also dive into the nine planetary boundaries – what they are, how many we've breached – and the ecological tipping points we are approaching within the earth system. We end with a discussion of the path forward, including needed transformations across our energy and food systems – and how some countries are starting to lead the way toward a better future.You can support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack:https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/__Johan references the second EAT-Lancet Commission report, which found that the way we produce and consume food is now the single largest cause of breaching planetary boundaries: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)01201-2/abstractHe also references this Nature paper on the combined role of climate change and deforestation in pushing the Amazon rainforest across a potential tipping point: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10456-0At the end of our conversation, we discuss the Second Conference for the Just Transition Away from Fossil Fuels, which is happening next year in Tuvalu: https://transitionawayconference.com/__Follow Johan Rockström:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johan-rockstr%C3%B6m-325551331/X: https://x.com/@jrockstromFollow the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PotsdamInstituteLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pik-potsdam-institute-for-climate-impact-research/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pik_klimaX: https://x.com/PIK_ClimateSubscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezzSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/4mgozhfvFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/__00:00 Ecological overshoot – but there is a path forward00:49 Introducing Johan Rockström01:37 Narrative shift: climate is becoming a security issue06:44 Planetary boundaries, explained10:46 The Great Acceleration & the Anthropocene13:35 7 of 9 boundaries exceeded but it’s not too late22:20 Tipping points explained (with examples)28:12 Debunking climate misinformation34:41 What we need to do: Innovate within constraints37:56 Energy transition & food system transition42:01 The political economy of solving the climate crisis44:44 The path forward: Building coalitions of the willing51:59 Conclusion__Host/Creator: Michael MezzatestaGuest: Johan RockströmProducer: Jade RisserEditor: Nuria SalgadoDesigner: Amea WadsworthThanks for watching episode 015. Stay tuned for more!

My guest today is Kate Raworth – renegade economist, author of Doughnut Economics, and co-founder of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab. We get into why mainstream economics leaves out ecology, inequality, and human wellbeing – and what a 21st century economic framework should look like. Kate introduces doughnut economics: a model for meeting the needs of all people within the planetary boundaries of the planet. We discuss the fictional character at the core of mainstream economics, the entrenched narratives holding us back, and how cities like Amsterdam are adopting doughnut economics to move towards a better future. Learn more about the Doughnut Economics Action Lab: https://doughnuteconomics.org/Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Subscribe to the Better Future podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833Check out Kate’s website to learn more about her work: kateraworth.comFind Kate’s book, Doughnut Economics, on Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/p/books/doughnut-economics-seven-ways-to-think-like-a-21st-century-economist-kate-raworth/c567b77a6aa8a1bfFollow Kate on social media: Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/kateraworth.bsky.socialLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-raworth-188399291/X: ⁠https://x.com/KateRaworthFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/ Follow the Better Future Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/Timestamps:00:00 The myth of human nature01:05 Introducing Kate Raworth02:18 Should we trust economists?09:03 The power of diagrams11:14 Inside the doughnut15:28 Externalities and earth systems19:24 Rational Economic Man28:01 Distributive ownership31:05 Beyond the capitalism vs. socialism paradigm39:29 Our addiction to growth43:53 From growth to thriving46:15 Mapping our lock-ins to growth51:35 Doughnut economics in action01:03:18 Having kids and climate anxiety01:08:13 Kate as a circus ringmaster01:19:52 ConclusionHost/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Kate Raworth Producer: Jade RisserEditor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea WadsworthThanks for watching episode 014. Lots more on the way!

My guest today is Olivier De Schutter – UN Special Rapporteur on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights, and one of the most important voices in the global movement to redesign the economy around human wellbeing rather than endless growth for the ultra-rich.We recorded this conversation at the +Wellbeing Economy Forum in Iceland, and our discussion covers a lot of ground – the myths that prop up capitalism; the winners and losers of globalization; the case for economic democracy; how to direct capital toward care work and the solidarity economy; and what a post-growth transition would actually look like.For a detailed picture of the policies that can guide this transition, you can view the newly-released roadmap “Eradicating Poverty Beyond Growth” here: https://www.neep-poverty.org/roadmap-for-eradicating-poverty-beyond-growth/Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/Learn more about the Wellbeing Economy Forum, an annual conference in Iceland for the wellbeing economy movement: https://www.wellbeingeconomyforum.com/Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833Follow Olivier on social media: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivier-de-schutter-83990552/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/odeschutter/X: https://x.com/DeSchutterOFollow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MICHAEL__MEZZ/Watch our clips on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/00:00 Intro: The economy panders to the rich 00:58 Introducing Olivier De Schutter01:47 Why capitalist efficiency is a myth 07:19 Has capitalism actually defeated poverty? 12:27 The commodification of life and the dismantling of the commons 16:28 The winners and losers of growth and globalization22:21 The progressive alternative to protectionism 30:38 Why we need economic democracy 35:46 The Easterlin paradox: growth without happiness 39:34 Post-growth as a culture shift 43:10 How international debt traps the Global South 50:43 Care work, wages, and the solidarity economy59:00 Recessions are not post-growth 01:02:45 ConclusionHost/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Olivier De Schutter Producer: Jade RisserEditor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea WadsworthThanks for watching episode 013. Stay tuned for more!

My guest today is Rob Hopkins – co-founder of the Transition Network, a global movement supporting communities to reimagine and rebuild their local economies in response to climate and economic crisis. He's the author of several books, including his most recent, How to Fall in Love with the Future, which makes the case that imagination – not fear – is the most powerful force for change we have. We discuss the limits of the climate movement’s fear-based narrative, Afrofuturist and other resistance movements bringing Rob and Michael hope, and what it means to build a mass longing for a better world. We also did a live imagination exercise with the audience – and you'll want to stick around for it.This was the first-ever live interview on the Better Future podcast, recorded at ChangeNOW in Paris.Learn more about Rob and his work: https://www.robhopkins.net/ Find his new book, How to Fall In Love With The Future, on Spotify and Bookshop.Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: Substack:⁠ https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/⁠ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833Follow Rob on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robhopkins5085/X: https://x.com/robintransitionLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-hopkins-09442948/Learn more about ChangeNOW, an annual climate solution conference in Paris: https://www.changenow.world/Timestamps:00:00 Filling our minds with stories of hope00:53 Introducing Rob Hopkins 02:14 Why the future is being canceled (and colonized)03:34 The problem with the climate movement08:02 Afrofuturism, Sun Ra, and filling the future with stories 12:15 What “longing” means - and why it matters 16:43 Filling our minds with better stories21:39 Is climate optimism naive?26:04 Evidence-based dreaming 29:21 Stopping the rise of the far right: the UK Green Party33:10 Why fascism hates creativity 38:33 Afrofuturist history & reimagining the future from the US43:20 Live exercise: Imagining a better future48:27 ConclusionCredits:Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta Guest: Rob Hopkins Producer: Jade RisserEditor: Nuria Salgado Designer: Amea WadsworthThanks for watching, and see you soon!