How Bitcoin Is Both a Risk Asset and a Hedge Against Debasement

The Chopping Block crew and Wintermute’s Evgeny Gaevoy debate whether Canton is truly permissionless, if Ethereum Foundation should double down on cypherpunk ideals or embrace institutions, and how AI-driven attacks are forcing everyone in crypto and open source to rethink security models. Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week we’ve got Evgeny Gaevoy, Founder of Wintermute, known for sharp takes and sharper trades. First up, the group unpacks the Twitter war over enterprise chain Canton—does it deserve to be called “permissionless”, or is it just TradFi with extra steps? Cue the Solana–Ethereum truce, and a rare moment where every old-school degenerate finds a common enemy. Evgeny makes a strong case for why, despite years of jokes at the Ethereum Foundation’s expense, he thinks they’re finally ahead of the curve by doubling down on cypherpunk roots—even if it makes ETH a little more Linux and a little less Nasdaq. But does decentralization matter if stablecoins and institutions now control the fork-choice? Haseeb and Evgeny spar over whether Ethereum’s “world computer” vision means inviting in the corporate crowd or keeping the punk sanctuary alive. The mood shifts as the hosts dig into crypto’s unfolding security meltdown: AI-written hacks, NPM supply chain fiascos, and what that means for the future of open source in crypto. Plus, a fresh new hack (RIP Drift), and predictions on how defensive tech (or lack thereof) will shape the next cycle. Barstool banter, spicy takes, and zero investment advice as always—let’s get into it. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Show highlights 🔹 The Chopping Block crew and Evgeny Gaevoy debate whether Canton is a permissionless blockchain or just TradFi LARPing as crypto   🔹 Does Ethereum need to double down on cypherpunk “sanctuary” values—or let BlackRock and Circle join the party?   🔹 Haseeb dismantles the idea that all “tokenized RWAs” on “permissioned” blockchains are equivalent to Ethereum   🔹 Solana and Ethereum align—briefly!—with both camps skeptical of enterprise “default no” blockchains   🔹 Circle and Tether’s growing influence: can fork-choice governance still exist if stables dictate the canonical chain?   🔹 Linux, the open internet, and how crypto’s utopian dreams get co-opted by institutions   🔹 Drift’s $270M hack highlights the AI-enabled acceleration of exploits and the mounting risks for open-source software   🔹 AI in security: From North Korean supply chain attacks to open source’s existential crisis   🔹 Is the future of crypto code closed or open? Zero knowledge proofs vs. code visibility in the LLM era   🔹 Are we headed for a world where only org-backed, audit-heavy open source survives? Hosts ⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures ⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly  Guest ⭐️ Evgeny Gaevoy, Founder and CEO at Wintermute Disclosures Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charles Schwab’s chief crypto strategist breaks down why traditional finance valuation frameworks, not narratives, are finally taking hold in digital assets. --- Multichain Advisors is an emerging technology growth firm that has helped create over $50 billion in enterprise value for 80+ clients. Services include TGE support, go-to-market strategy, BD, partnerships, capital markets advisory, PR, media placements, and KOL activations. Visit ⁠https://www.multichainadv.com/⁠ --- Charles Schwab recently hired Jim Ferraioli to build a dedicated crypto research team, a signal that institutions are moving beyond narrative-driven investing and are taking this asset class seriously.  In this episode, Steven Ehrlich sits down with Jim to explore how traditional finance valuation frameworks apply to crypto. They discuss Bitcoin’s role as a hedge against monetary debasement (not a safe haven), Jim’s cost-of-production model for valuing Bitcoin, and why Ethereum’s dominance in tokenization matters far more than short-term price action.  Most compellingly, Jim argues that today’s Bitcoin prices sit at historical support levels used by the most efficient miners, and that Ethereum’s position as the tokenization standard is nearly unshakeable. If you’ve been waiting for crypto analysis grounded in fundamentals rather than hype, this is the conversation to hear. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steven Ehrlich⁠, Head of Research, SharpLink Guest: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jim Ferraioli, Director of Digital Currencies Research and Strategy at Charles Schwab Links: Charles Schwab & Institutional Crypto Research Jim Ferraioli | Charles Schwab CoinDesk:  Liquidity Lifts Bitcoin, but 'Halving Cycle' Fears Could Limit Rally, Says Schwab Nasdaq:  Top 4 Reasons More Americans Are Investing in Crypto, According to Schwab Ethereum Tokenization & Real-World Assets Coindesk:  The Tokenization Boom: Why Ethereum Remains the Rails for RWA Tokenization Quantum Computing Risk CoinDesk:  Bitcoin Isn't Under Quantum Threat Yet, but Upgrading Could Take 5-10 Years How Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana Are Preparing for the Quantum Threat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chaos Labs' Omer Goldberg unpacks the $285 million Drift Protocol exploit. Did the perp DEX fail to implement best practices? Sponsored by ⁠Nexo⁠: A crypto lending and borrowing platform that lets users earn interest on digital assets and access credit against their holdings. Now available in the US with exclusive privileges for new clients. Get started today:⁠ http://nexo.com/unchained⁠ Solana's biggest perp DEX Drift Protocol was exploited for $285 million on April Fool's Day in a compromise observers have described as “methodical” and “chilling.” Chaos Labs founder Omer Goldberg unpacks how the exploit, which is among the 10 largest in DeFi history, went down, including how hackers leveraged a Solana feature to lie in wait without triggering alarms and how the attack bore some resemblance to the Mango DAO and Resolv exploits. He also weighs in on criticism against Circle for its slow response and whether the exploit has the markings of a North Korean state sponsored attack. In Omer's telling, the loss could have been avoided.  Listen to find out more! Guest: ⁠Omer Goldberg, Founder and CEO of Chaos Labs Previous appearances on Unchained: How the Resolv Hack Was a Web2 Exploit, Not a Crypto One - Uneasy Money Links Unchained: Drift Protocol Suffers $285 Million Exploit After Admin Key Compromise and Oracle Manipulation Uneasy Money: How the Resolv Hack Shows an Audit Doesn’t Mean ‘Secure’ The Mango Markets Attacker on Whether His ‘Trade’ Was Ethical or Not North Korean Hackers Are Winning. Is the Crypto Industry Ready to Stop Them? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Former FTX General Counsel Ryne Miller joins the DEX in the City crew to unpack the CFTC's crypto moves. Does the agency have the staffing to achieve its “aggressive” agenda? Thanks to our sponsor, Nexo, the premier digital wealth platform. Receive interest on your digital assets. Borrow against them without selling. Trade a variety of cryptocurrencies. All in one platform. Now available in the U.S. Get started today at nexo.com/unchained. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission under Chair Mike Selig has unveiled an expansive agenda across artificial intelligence, crypto and prediction markets.  Former CFTC staffer and FTX General Counsel Ryne Miller joins DEX in the City hosts Vy Le and Jessi Brooks to unpack the agenda and answer whether the regulator has the resources to fulfill it. According to Miller, the agenda could see the agency return to a schedule similar to the Dodd-Frank era under then-Chair Gary Gensler.  Beyond the CFTC's regulatory moves, Miller also weighs in on the growing bans on the use of prediction markets by certain officials. Find out why he says it is a trend that is likely to continue. Plus, should Canton be segregated from other blockchains? Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TuongVy Le, General Counsel at Veda Guest: ⁠Ryne Miller, Partner at Morrison Foerster & Former FTX General Counsel Links: Unchained: CFTC Clears Path for Phantom to Bridge Crypto Wallets and Derivatives CFTC Moves to Rein In Prediction Markets as Industry Booms SEC and CFTC Move Toward Unified Crypto Rules Crypto Startup Bet on Its Own Fundraise on Polymarket, Then Apologized How Prediction Markets Make Espionage So Much Easier — and Risk National Security Visa Approves Its First Blockchain Governance Proposal, Joining Canton Network as Super Validator Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Google just set a deadline. Quantum computers could break Bitcoin's encryption by 2029. Are blockchains ready? Sponsored by ⁠Nexo⁠ Nexo is the premier digital wealth platform. Receive interest on your crypto, borrow against it without selling, and trade a range of assets. Now available in the U.S with 30 days of exclusive privileges.  Get started at http://nexo.com/unchained Google and Oratomic published quantum computing research on the same day, and together they redraw the timeline for when blockchains need to be post-quantum secure. Google's paper, co-authored by Ethereum Foundation researcher Justin Drake and Stanford cryptographer Dan Boneh, estimates 2029 for breaking the elliptic curve cryptography that protects Bitcoin and Ethereum. Oratomic's findings are sharper: utility-scale quantum computers may need only 10,000 qubits, not the millions previously assumed, and the company already has 6,000 in the lab. With 6.7 million BTC in vulnerable addresses and a newly identified 9-minute attack window on unspent Bitcoin transactions, the question is no longer whether blockchains need to migrate. It's whether they can do it fast enough. Guests: ⁠Alex Pruden, Co-Founder & CEO, Project Eleven ⁠Dolev Bluvstein, CEO of Oratomic Links: Unchained: Q-Day Is Imminent. Can Bitcoin Survive the Quantum Threat? Solana Deploys Post-Quantum Signatures on Testnet Is Nic Carter Exaggerating Bitcoin's Quantum Risk? Yes, Says One Core Dev Research Papers: Google: Securing Elliptic Curve Cryptocurrencies Against Quantum Vulnerabilities Oratomic: Shor's Algorithm with as Few as 10,000 Reconfigurable Atomic Qubits (arXiv) Caltech: Useful Quantum Computers Could Be Built with as Few as 10,000 Qubits Companies & Tools: Project Eleven Project Eleven: Yellow Pages Oratomic BIP 360: Pay-to-Merkle-Root (P2MR) Standards & Infrastructure: NIST Post-Quantum Cryptography Standards Cloudflare: State of the Post-Quantum Internet Google Quantum AI: Willow & Error Correction Algorand: Quantum-Resistant Falcon Signatures Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When do oil prices force a ceasefire? Why is crypto holding firm while equities crack? And does Canton or Ethereum win the institutional race? --- Thank you to our sponsor: ⁠⁠⁠Nexo⁠⁠⁠ — the premier digital wealth platform. Receive interest on your digital assets, borrow against them without selling, and trade a wide range of cryptocurrencies all in one place. Now available in the US with 30 days of exclusive privileges for new clients. Get started at ⁠⁠⁠nexo.com/unchained⁠⁠⁠. ---- Bond market tightening has become the invisible hand constraining every policy decision, from Iran talks to stimulus spending.  With Brent crude at $107 and the 10-year yield climbing, asset prices face a cascade of headwinds: inflationary supply shocks, tightening financial conditions, and no clear off-ramp for a conflict that the IRGC shows no appetite to negotiate.  Yet within crypto, a sharper debate is emerging: does institutional adoption demand Canton’s permissioned structure, or can Ethereum survive with real-world assets on a permissionless layer?  Austin, Ram, and Chris dig into the structural fault lines that the macro backdrop is now exposing, and why market-timing in a conflict where you don’t know who the endgame negotiator is may be the wrong frame entirely. Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠Austin Campbell⁠⁠⁠, Host of Bits + Bips, Zero Knowledge Consulting ⁠⁠⁠Ram Ahluwalia⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of Lumida ⁠⁠⁠Chris Perkins⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, President of CoinFund Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oil above $100, Qatar's LNG infrastructure in ruins, and a 150-year-old grid buckling under AI-era demand: Sean Murray breaks down why energy has an L1 problem and how Fuse is building the crypto-native fix. --- Multichain Advisors is an emerging technology growth firm that has helped create over $50 billion in enterprise value for 80+ clients. Services include TGE support, go-to-market strategy, BD, partnerships, capital markets advisory, PR, media placements, and KOL activations. Visit https://www.multichainadv.com/ --- A $5 billion UK energy company built by Revolut alumni is about to launch a new token, and they already have an SEC no-action letter to back it up.  But the real story starts with the grid itself. European gas prices are running 50-70% above normal. Multi-billion dollar LNG facilities damaged in recent attacks could take years to repair. And a power grid designed 150 years ago is buckling under AI data centers, EVs, and renewables it was never built to handle.  Sean Murray, Fuse Energy's crypto lead, joins Steven Ehrlich to lay out why an estimated $70 billion in clean energy has been wasted because the grid can't move it, why that congestion problem mirrors crypto's own L1 scalability crisis, and how coordinating millions of smart home devices through a token-incentivized network could fix it. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steven Ehrlich, Head of Research, SharpLink Guest: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sean Murray, Head of Special Projects & Crypto Lead, Fuse Energy — Previously part of the Revolut early team; now leading Fuse's crypto strategy and DePIN network launch for a vertically integrated energy company doing ~$500 million in annual revenue across the UK and Europe. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Will AI agents use cards or stablecoins? Here’s how two crypto VCs see the agentic future shaping up. Sponsored by Nexo: A crypto lending and borrowing platform that lets users earn interest on digital assets and access credit against their holdings. Now available in the US with exclusive privileges for new clients. Get started today: http://nexo.com/unchained What happens when merchants are code instead of storefronts? Noah Levine and Robbie Petersen debate whether stablecoins or cards win in an agentic economy, and more importantly, where the profit pools end up. One sees headless merchants driving a new payment stack; the other warns that front ends never fully disappear. Both agree on this: traditional fraud detection will likely fail against AI behavior patterns, and the rails question masks a deeper problem of regulatory and social inertia. The outcome hinges on whether permissionless infrastructure can outcompete existing payment incumbents, and whether agentic commerce actually scales beyond niche use cases. Guest: Noah Levine, Partner at a16z Robbie Petersen, Junior Partner at Dragonfly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chaos Labs’ Omer Goldberg joins the crew to dig into the Resolv Labs exploit. Why was the USR minting function controlled by a single key? And how did audits miss it? Thank you to our sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fuse: The Energy Network ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ – Shift your energy use and earn rewards. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MultiChain Advisors -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Growth & Capital Markets Partner You Need ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Crypto Tax Girl $25 million extracted and millions more in bad debt across lending protocols. Chaos Labs founder Omer Goldberg joins Uneasy Money hosts Kain Warwick, Luca Netz and Taylor Monahan to unpack the Resolv exploit. They dive into how the exploit reveals DeFi's basic OpSec and risk judgement failings. Omer highlights the various ways it could have been prevented as Tay says protocol audits have become “security theater.” Kain questions Morpho's curator model after its pools were hit hard as the contagion spread. He also highlights markers that suggest the exploit may have been executed in panic. Beyond the Resolv exploit, the crew highlights that Aave v4 has made it out of governance, discussing the motivations behind the upgrade and whether the hub and spoke model will impact listing standards. Hosts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Security Expert ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Luca Netz⁠⁠⁠, CEO of Pudgy Penguins Guest: Omer Goldberg, Founder and CEO of Chaos Labs Links: Unchained: Aave V4 Clears First Governance Vote with 100% Support After Months of Internal Conflict Stani Kulechov on Why Aave Labs Is Putting Itself at the Mercy of the DAO How Aave Labs and the DAO Should Split Ownership of the Brand – Uneasy Money Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Trump pulled off a five-day ceasefire nobody expected. Ram calls it the greatest TACO of his career. --- Thank you to our sponsor: Nexo — the premier digital wealth platform. Receive interest on your digital assets, borrow against them without selling, and trade a wide range of cryptocurrencies all in one place. Now available in the US with 30 days of exclusive privileges for new clients. Get started at nexo.com/unchained. ---- Trump announced a five-day pause on strikes against Iranian energy infrastructure just hours before his own 48-hour ultimatum expired. Oil crashed below $90. Bitcoin surged from $68,200 to above $71,000. Ram called it the greatest TACO of Trump’s career and said the Trump put is officially here. Meanwhile the Fed held rates steady but the dot plot revealed a historically wide internal split: seven members want zero cuts in 2026 while five want 50 basis points or more. Powell warned inflation isn’t coming down as hoped with projections now at 2.7% for headline.  And in tech, Elon Musk unveiled a $25 billion chip fab that Ram says is pure fiction while Bezos raised $100 billion to buy manufacturing companies and transform them with AI. Hosts: Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Zero Knowledge Consulting Ram Ahluwalia, Co-Host, CEO of Lumida Chris Perkins, Co-Host, President of CoinFund Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices