156: Lessons from 50 Years (with Benny Vaughn)

🎙 Is Your Work Valuable? The Psychology of Perceived Value in Hands-On Practice What makes clients value your work — and come back for more? Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe explore the results of a survey of over 2,000 practitioners to uncover the surprising psychology behind perceived value. Spoiler: it's not just about results or price. Value is created in a reciprocal feedback loop between practitioner and client — shaped by confidence, preparation, communication, boundaries, and dozens of subtle signals clients pick up (consciously or not). In this episode, they discuss: - The "chicken-and-egg" relationship between value perception and client outcomes - The famous "expensive pain pill" study and what it reveals about perceived value - How discount addiction undermines both value and client loyalty - The 9 ways to communicate value — from linens and punctuality to CE certificates and testimonials - Why going over time can actually diminish perceived value - How asking clients to invest effort (goals, homework, participation) raises their commitment - The importance of receiving the work you give — and what the survey showed - The surprising correlation between in-person CE hours and practice satisfaction  - The confidence paradox: does success breed confidence, or does confidence breed success? - Practical tips: where to start if you want to shift value perception tomorrow Whether you're building a practice, thinking about pricing, or wondering why some clients don't seem to "get it," this conversation offers a roadmap for communicating value from the inside out. ✨ Resources 👉 Read the full article: Is Your Work Valuable? https://a-t.tv/articles/luchau_valuable_mbw_20180427.pdf    👉 Video version: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts Sponsor Offers: - Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ - ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking - Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking - Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Connect with us: Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | Facebook | Instagram Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | Facebook | Twitter 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 What Happens When the Body Lets Go? Werner Klingler on Anesthesia, Altered States & the Physiology of Relaxation What actually happens when the body "lets go" — in anesthesia, trance, or the deep relaxation familiar to hands-on practitioners? Til Luchau talks with Professor Werner Klingler, anesthesiologist, physiologist, and fascia researcher at Ulm University (Germany), whose work bridges clinical anesthesia, neuroscience, and connective-tissue research. Drawing on decades of operating room experience, Dr. Klingler explains how different parts of the brain disconnect and re-synchronize during altered states, why the "freeze reflex" comes first, and how fascia's responsiveness makes it a living sensory organ rather than inert tissue. Fair warning: Werner gets wonderfully detailed about physiology — but stick with it, because he drops some genuine gems about autonomic "push-ups," why tears cleanse neurotransmitters, and what happens when children wake from anesthesia with wide-open pupils. In this episode, they discuss: - The "octopus model" of consciousness — why "altered state" is too simple - The three pillars of anesthesia: unconsciousness, analgesia, and muscle relaxation - How breathing and CO₂ levels influence pH, drug effectiveness, and tissue tone - Why warmth matters: how temperature shifts the load between muscle and connective tissue - What "autonomic push-ups" teach us about resilience and cyclic training - The freeze-then-flight reflex pattern and how it shows up under anesthesia - How emotion and perception shift as anesthesia fades — and why some people wake up sad - Whether sensation is required for bodywork to be effective (spoiler: tissue effects happen either way) - Pre- and post-operative care: what bodyworkers can offer surgery patients - Why fascia is alive — restructuring, remodeling, and central to our sensory and autonomic systems - The FRECLS project: how practitioners can contribute to international fascia research Whether you're curious about the neuroscience of deep relaxation, how anesthesia informs hands-on practice, or what happens when different "arms of the octopus" come back online, this conversation offers a rare clinical perspective on the states we work with every day. ✨ Resources 👉 Join the FRECLS project (Fascia Research Consensus and Liaison Statement): https://frecls.org/ 👉 Fascia Research Society: https://fasciaresearchsociety.org/ 👉 Video version: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts Sponsor Offers: - Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ - ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking - Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking - Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet ✨ Connect with us: Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | Facebook | Instagram Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | Facebook | Twitter 📧 Email us: [email protected] The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Celebrating 50 Years of Massage: Benny Vaughn’s Legacy of Professionalism, Perseverance & Touch Whitney Lowe sits down with legendary massage therapist Benny Vaughn to celebrate his 50 years in the massage and bodywork profession — a career that helped shape modern sports massage, elevate professional standards, and open doors for generations of practitioners. From his early years breaking racial barriers in sports medicine to his pioneering integration of massage into collegiate and professional athletics, Benny shares powerful stories of courage, mentorship, and the mindset that turns adversity into purpose. In this conversation, they explore: • Benny’s beginnings in track & field and how that led him to massage in 1975 • Integrating massage into university and professional sports programs — and how it changed the field • Overcoming racial and cultural barriers in the Deep South of the 1970s • The essential mindset shift for success in massage practice • Why mentorship matters — and how to approach a mentor with respect • What Benny hopes the next 50 years of massage will bring This inspiring retrospective honors one of massage therapy’s most influential pioneers — a practitioner who continues to teach, mentor, and elevate the profession every day. ✨ Learn more about Benny Vaughn: 👉 https://bennyvaughnlifecoach.com/ ✨ Watch this episode on YouTube: 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts Sponsor Offers: • Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering thinking at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com. • ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking. • Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. • Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet. • Til’s 2026 Thailand Retreat: use code “thinking” for $100 off Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World at a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/. ✨ Connect with us: Til Luchau: advanced-trainings.com | facebook.com/advancedtrainings | instagram.com/til.luchau Whitney Lowe: academyofclinicalmassage.com | facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | twitter.com/whitneylowe ——— The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙A better understanding of the very human emotion of disgust can help us navigate boundaries, empathy, and connection in our hands-on work—and in the wider world. This week, Til welcomes back Todd Hargrove—Certified Rolfer™, movement educator, and author of A Guide to Better Movement and Playing With Movement. Together they explore one of the most primal, and often least examined, human emotions: disgust. Drawing from psychology, neuroscience, and his years of practice, Todd unpacks disgust as part of our behavioral immune system—a mechanism designed to keep us safe from harm that also influences our moral judgments, client relationships, and social divisions. In this conversation, they explore: • How disgust shows up physiologically and emotionally in practitioners and clients • The difference between protective instinct and unconscious bias • When disgust serves as a moral compass, and when it drives prejudice or separation • Practical ways to notice and work with disgust as a signal rather than a verdict • How turning aversion into curiosity can deepen empathy and compassion in practice At its heart, this dialogue invites practitioners to see disgust not as something to suppress or be ashamed of, but as a doorway into greater awareness, boundaries, and connection. ✨ Read Todd’s original article on disgust: 👉 https://toddhargrove.substack.com/p/disgust ✨ Learn more about Todd’s books and writing: 👉 https://www.bettermovement.org/books ✨ Watch this episode on YouTube: 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts Sponsor Offers:  • Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on https://booksofdiscovery.com/.  • ABMP: save $24 on new membership at https://www.abmp.com/thinking.  • Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at http://a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. • Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: https://www.academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet/  • Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   ✨ Connect with us: • Til Luchau: https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau • Whitney Lowe: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe ——— The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe go deep into the sacroiliac (SI) joints in this listener-favorite rebroadcast of Episode 74, where they unpack anatomy, mechanics, assessment controversies, and treatment strategies. From the relationship between pain, stability, and mobility, to ligamentous support, gait mechanics, and the limits of positional models, they offer both clinical clarity and practical takeaways. Along the way, they share road stories, podcast crossovers, and resources for further learning. 🎧 Listen in for evidence-based insights, hands-on strategies, and nuanced discussion that balances analytical precision with experiential wisdom. 👉Thailand Retreat 2026 Join Til and friends for Finding Balance, an immersive bodywork and movement retreat at a floating retreat center in Thailand. Learn more → https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/ 🔍Key Points by Time Code: 00:00 – Sponsor, catch-up & travel stories; 2022 Fascia Research Congress  03:13 – Today’s focus: sacroiliac joints; Whitney’s Massage & Bodywork article on SI dysfunction 03:53 – Til’s Ilia/SI online course announcement (now available on demand) 04:50 – Podcast review shout-out: Hands at the Table reviews Til’s course 06:11 – Anatomy tour: interlocking joint surfaces, nociceptors, ligament overview 08:30 – Weight transfer & keystone analogy; iliolumbar, sacrotuberous, sacrospinous ligaments 13:53 – Pain mechanisms: “culprit or victim?” framing 15:00 – Motion at the SI joint: small ROM, often misunderstood 18:01 – Nutation vs. counternutation explained; clinical relevance 24:50 – Assessment: why provocation tests (Laslett cluster) matter more than positional diagnosis 28:58 – Treatment approaches: working with sensitivity, remote-site effects, neural target zones 30:22 – Clinical reasoning: differentiating nerve tension vs. ligament vs. joint capsule 33:20 – Complexity of models vs. simplicity of sensation-first approaches 37:14 – Hypermobility paradox: Ehlers-Danlos and individualized load titration 45:00 – Gait mechanics: contralateral in-/out-flare with each step; self-exploration drills 46:07 – Lateral tilt, functional vs. structural leg-length differences; heel lift caveats 58:43 – Self-care: DonTigny-inspired gentle movement in both directions 59:30 – Course info recap; live & recorded access options 1:00:42 – Closing sponsor; how to find show notes & rate the podcast Resources: Article: “Current Concepts in Sacroiliac Joint Dysfunction” (free, registration required) Training: Ilia & SI Joints: Principles Review: the Hands at the Table podcast hosts dissect an AMT Principles course  Previous TTP SIJ episode: 3: Sacroiliac Joint Pain: Causes, Controversies, and Considerations  Whitney’s references: Physiotutors web clip on Laslett SI joint test cluster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8txpsqHYpQ&t=197s Szadek KM, Hoogland P V., Zuurmond WW, de Lange JJ, Perez RS. Nociceptive Nerve Fibers in the Sacroiliac Joint in Humans. Reg Anesth Pain Med. 2008;33(1):36-43. doi:10.1016/j.rapm.2007.07.011 Bertoldo D, Pirri C, Roviaro B, et al. Pilot study of sacroiliac joint dysfunction treated with a single session of fascial manipulation® method: Clinical implications for effective pain reduction. Med. 2021;57(7):1-11. doi:10.3390/medicina57070691 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this special episode recorded live at the 7th International Fascial Research Congress in New Orleans, Til Luchau gathers conversations with leading researchers, educators, and practitioners from around the world. From collagen synthesis breakthroughs to fascia typologies, scar tissue management, mental imagery, and integrative perspectives on touch and movement, this episode captures the excitement and connections at the forefront of fascia research. 🔍Interviews by Time Code: •01:04 — Robert Schleip: Conference spirit, collagen synthesis, ultrasound, and vagus–immune connections •10:01 — Cathy Ryan: Scar tissue management, bridging research and practice, teaching with Healwell & Advanced-Trainings.com •13:45 — Gavin Ruiz: A first-time attendee’s perspective, tendon insights, and applying research as a young therapist •15:42 — Eric Franklin: The Franklin Method, mental imagery, body schema, and the role of touch •21:39 — Sneha Krishna: Making fascia science more accessible, teaching biomechanics, and global connective insights •25:53 — Miriam Wessels & Heike Oellerich: The “fascia code,” Viking vs. Elf body types, treatment implications, and emotional dimensions •37:16 — Gil Hedley: People, embodiment, anatomy as metaphor, and uniting spirituality with embodiment Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this intriguing episode, Til and Whitney dig into a recent study that tested the effects of pressure in myofascial release—comparing a traditional pressure-based technique with a light-touch "sham" version. The study measured changes in pain sensitivity, neck mobility, and proprioception. What did the study find? And what can that teach us about technique, touch, and the therapeutic encounter? Join us as we unpack the design, outcomes, and broader implications of this fascinating study—and reflect on what really makes manual therapy effective. 🔍 Key Topics: 00:47 - Study Introduction - Exploring immediate effects of suboccipital myofascial release on pain thresholds, range of motion, and proprioception 04:38 - Research Design - Comparing pressure-based technique vs. "sham" light touch treatment in 30 healthy adults 08:45 - Sham Treatment Challenges - Why creating control groups is particularly difficult in manual therapy research 12:18 - Measurement Methods - Pain pressure threshold, cervical range of motion, and proprioception repositioning tests 14:58 - Surprising Results - Both pressure and light touch groups showed similar improvements with no statistical difference 18:14 - Contextual Effects - Everything beyond technique that influences outcomes: environment, expectations, touch quality, practitioner skill 19:44 - Technique vs. Context Debate - Does this prove technique doesn't matter, or highlight the importance of how we deliver treatment? 26:16 - Anatomical Considerations - Suboccipital muscles, proprioceptors, and precision-oriented treatment approaches 30:00 - Research Limitations - Small sample size, no follow-up, immediate effects only, practitioner experience factors 34:12 - Clinical Takeaways - The "magic" of touch and importance of human connection in therapeutic outcomes   Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙What does it mean to find balance—when the world around us feels anything but balanced? Til and Whitney explore the many meanings of “balance,” from physical coordination and structural asymmetry to emotional regulation, interoception, and life rhythm. Drawing on neuroscience, somatics, and their own experience as bodyworkers, they reflect on how balance isn’t a fixed point—but a dynamic process of continual adaptation. Whether you’re a practitioner looking to stay grounded in caregiving roles, or just navigating modern overwhelm, this episode offers practical insights and embodied metaphors to help you stay centered. ✨ Inspired by Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Sign up now with a $350 deposit, and use code “thinking” for $100: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/  🔍 Key Topics: •00:00 – What “balance” means in the body and beyond •04:20 – Balance as movement, not stillness •08:00 – Vestibular systems and the emotional brain (Hitier et al., 2014) •12:15 – Why imbalance is fertile ground for growth (Kelso & Engström, 2006) •15:30 – The body as metaphor for internal regulation •18:05 – Interoception as a compass for emotional balance (Mehling et al., 2012) •22:40 – Is symmetry the goal—or functional asymmetry? •26:50 – Giving and receiving: how practitioners stay balanced •31:00 – Tech vs. touch: what really heals? •34:20 – Work/life balance and showing up for clients •37:10 – Micro-practices: balance in everyday moments •40:30 – Retreat as a reset: what stepping away reveals •44:15 – Closing reflections + details about the Thailand retreat 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  •Hitier, M., Besnard, S., & Smith, P. F. (2014). Vestibular pathways involved in cognition. Frontiers in Integrative Neuroscience, 8, 59. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2014.00059  •Slomo – A short documentary about Dr. John Kitchin’s journey toward balance and meaning. https://vimeo.com/channels/5pointpicks/90655826  •Adachi, Kendra. The Plan: A Step-by-Step Guide to Rest, Peace, and Purpose (2024) – A practical and compassionate approach to designing a life that works for you. https://www.amazon.com/Plan-Step-Step-Guide-Purpose/dp/0593578502 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/   💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Rebroadcast: One of our most popular episodes (Ep 45), shared again in honor of the upcoming Fascia Research Congress. 🎙In this lively and far-reaching conversation, fascia researcher and manual therapy pioneer Robert Schleip returns to talk with Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe about the newly expanded second edition of Fascia in Sport and Movement. They explore what’s new in fascia science, how manual therapy and movement are evolving, and how fascia functions as a sensory and fluid-regulating organ. Along the way, Schleip shares stories, research, and a few surprises. 🔍 Key Topics: •0:00 — Til’s choice to publish with Handspring (and Robert’s role in that decision) •2:02 — Introducing Robert Schleip: Rolfing, Feldenkrais, and fascia science •5:46 — Relevance of Fascia in Sport and Movement for manual therapists •8:36 — From bodywork to movement: integrating motor learning and fascia fitness •12:47 — Fascia fitness origins and the shift toward bounce, play, and variety •18:15 — Fascia as a sensory organ: 250 million sensory nerve endings •22:10 — Surprising differences in innervation between skin and fascia •26:58 — Free nerve endings, pain perception, and autonomic connections •29:41 — Sympathetic regulation and its role in fluid dynamics and recovery •35:25 — Balancing sympathetic and parasympathetic input through varied movement •40:18 — Resilience, trauma, and adaptation (with nods to Porges and Levine) •45:19 — Can we really change fascia? Revisiting IT bands and foam rolling •50:34 — Hyaluronan, hydration, and viscosity: another mechanism for change •57:36 — A story of facial nerve recovery, social engagement, and baby therapy •1:01:31 — Touching water: fascia, sponginess, and inspiring clients to move •1:06:54 — Elegant stair dancing and everyday movement integration •1:10:30 — Resources, shoutouts, and where to learn more from Robert 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  Book: Fascia in Sport & Movement at Handspring (Get 15% off with coupon code TTP)  fasciaresearch.de somatics.de Fascia Research Society  Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙In this episode, Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe speak with renowned neuroscientist Dr. Stephen Porges, originator of Polyvagal Theory. Together, they explore how our nervous systems respond to cues of safety, how touch can support regulation and connection, and what all this means for bodyworkers and manual therapists. Dr. Porges shares the latest thinking on co-regulation, trauma, attunement, and the science of feeling safe—along with practical insights for practitioners working with the body. 🔍 Key Topics: 00:00 – 02:00 Intro, ABMP welcome & framing the Polyvagal lens for bodyworkers 02:00 – 07:00 Early research with Peter Levine and John Cottingham: how structural shifts (pelvic tilt, fascia work) alter autonomic regulation 07:00 – 12:00 Evolutionary foundations: fascia types, diaphragm function, and the hierarchy of autonomic response 12:00 – 17:00 Facial expressivity, voice prosody, and breathing as channels of co‑regulation 17:00 – 22:00 Identifying autonomic states (“tightly wrapped” bodies) and choosing when—not just where—to touch 22:00 – 27:00 The Body Perception Questionnaire: a tool for mapping clients’ interoceptive awareness 27:00 – 32:00 Trauma, autonomic reactivity, and parsing traumatic events vs. responses 32:00 – 37:00 The Safe and Sound Protocol: acoustic interventions for nervous system safety 37:00 – 42:00 Vagal “hacking” misconceptions: why rhythm and safety signals matter more than stimulation 42:00 – 47:00 Feedback loops: tissue ↔ nervous system ↔ fascia → chronic pain 47:00 – 52:00 Therapist intuition: physiological co‑regulation, broadcasting accessibility, therapist self‑state 52:00 – 57:00 Finding safety in a chaotic world: why therapists need safe colleagues and co‑regulation too 57:00 – 60:00+ New resources: Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety, the Norton-edited somatic therapies volume, Safe & Sound Protocol book, Our Polyvagal World 📚 Resources Mentioned in This Episode  • Polyvagal Theory: A Science of Safety Stephen W. Porges (2022) A foundational, peer-reviewed article exploring how our nervous system detects safety and threat. https://doi.org/10.3389/fnint.2022.871227 • Somatic-Oriented Therapies: Embodiment, Trauma, and Polyvagal Perspectives Edited by H. Grassmann, M. Stupiggia & S. W. Porges (2025) A rich collection on body-centered therapy approaches and trauma healing through a Polyvagal lens. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324052724 • Safe and Sound: A Polyvagal Approach for Connection, Change, and Healing Stephen W. Porges & Karen Onderko (2025, Audiobook) A warm, practical guide to healing and connection through nervous system regulation. https://www.amazon.com.au/Safe-Sound-Polyvagal-Approach-Connection/dp/B0DGGZLJ3J • Our Polyvagal World: How Safety and Trauma Change Us Stephen W. Porges & Seth Porges (2023, Audiobook) A father-son conversation exploring how trauma and safety shape our bodies, brains, and relationships. https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0CW5CPPFP • Polyvagal Perspectives: Interventions, Practices, and Strategies Stephen W. Porges (2024, Audiobook) Hands-on insights for bringing Polyvagal ideas into therapy, education, and everyday life. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0D9PJQC55 Sponsor Offers:  Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.  ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet Fascia Research Congress: save $100 when you use the coupon code "THINKING" at https://www.frscongress.org/  💡 Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts with us! [email protected]  ✨ Rate, review, and share! Help others discover The Thinking Practitioner podcast. 🎁 Get the full transcript at Til or Whitney's sites!  Whitney Lowe’s site: AcademyOfClinicalMassage.com  Til Luchau’s site: Advanced-Trainings.com   About Whitney Lowe  | About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)