The Discovery of Ignorance in Product Development: Time for a Smarter Way to Deliver Customer Value with Gary Cohen

Have you ever wondered why Extreme Programming (XP) isn’t commonly taught in schools? In this engaging episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we dive into this intriguing question brought to us by the mob programming community. 🎓 What We Cover: 1️⃣ A Junior Developer's Dilemma: If schools don’t teach XP, does it mean it’s not critical for your career? 2️⃣ Academia’s Pushback: What are professors saying about XP and unit testing? Is XP seen as incompatible with academic goals? 3️⃣ Systems Thinking in Action: Unpacking how a systems-thinking approach (holistic problem-solving) provides clarity on this issue. 4️⃣ The Runner Analogy: How comparing sprinters and cross-country runners sheds light on coding strategies. 5️⃣ Universities vs. Industry Needs: Are schools preparing students for industry or academic research? What should their goals be? 6️⃣ Degree Confusion: Why students struggle to navigate differences between computer science and software engineering programs. 7️⃣ Niche or Necessity? Why XP, a small sector of the software industry, may not get the spotlight it deserves in schools. 8️⃣ Unit Testing's Lone Survival: Is unit testing finding its way into classrooms, but XP is not? 9️⃣ The “Unknown Unknowns” Problem: What happens when students don’t even realize the value XP could bring to their careers. 🔟 Solutions That Work: Experiments and strategies we’ve used to promote XP in university curricula. 💡 Why This Episode Matters: Maintainability in Code: Discover why maintainability is crucial—not just in industry, but even for academic projects. Handling Resistance: Learn how educators can introduce XP despite opposition from traditional academic mindsets. Spotlighting Success: Shout-outs to universities doing XP right and what others can learn from them. Academia-Industry Collaboration: Insights from years spent on professional committees advocating for XP. 📌 Who Should Watch This Episode? Students: Discover why your curriculum may overlook XP and how to build the skills yourself. Educators: Get inspired to bring XP into your classrooms and navigate institutional challenges. Industry Professionals: Understand the gap between academia and industry, and what it means for hiring new grads. Join us as we explore the challenges and opportunities of integrating XP into education. With actionable insights, engaging analogies, and practical advice, this episode is packed with ideas to spark change. Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/CidbB_SBGl0  

In this thought-provoking episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we are joined by Ariel Pérez to explore the fascinating intersection of Complex Adaptive Organizations, Organizational Topologies, and the FAST Agile Framework. Together, we dive into the challenges and opportunities of modern software development and organizational dynamics, offering actionable insights for leaders, teams, and anyone navigating complexity in their work. Highlights from the Episode... Complex Adaptive Organizations and FAST Agile: Manufacturing vs. Software Development: Why building the same product repeatedly differs from creating custom software . Complexity Theory in Software Development: How unpredictable side effects shape outcomes and the pursuit of predictability in organizations. Fixed Scope and Fixed Date: Are they real business needs, or just external motivators? What are their long-term impacts on quality and delivery? Theory X vs. Theory Y (management theories): How a leaders' management principles and practices influence autonomy, trust, and collaboration. Dynamic Teams in FAST Agile: The pros and cons of adapting teams dynamically to match work needs versus forcing work into rigid team structures. Story of Transitioning to FAST: A tale of initial resistance to the FAST Agile approach and the eventual embrace of its benefits. Building a Culture of Experimentation and Learning: Experimentation as a Foundation for Innovation: How to test hypotheses in product development and team practices without compromising quality. From Fear to Trust: Encouraging experimentation in new teams or under new leadership while creating safety for bold ideas. Practical Experiments: Implementing small feature flags, A/B testing (comparing two versions in production), and time-limited trial runs to foster innovation. Respect and Radical Candor: Building trust through open communication, mutual respect, and the occasional dose of healthy banter 😅. Risks and Controls: A Never-Ending Game of Whack-a-Mole: Balancing Risk and Control: How risk-heavy environments lead to more controls (e.g., CAB—Change Advisory Board, PR—Pull Request) and the ripple effects of other risks these controls create. Holistic Thinking: Why addressing one risk often introduces others and how to manage risk without stifling agility. Mob Programming as a Solution: Handling emergency changes safely and collaboratively without falling into the trap of excessive gatekeeping. Key Takeaways: Embrace complexity and adapt dynamically to navigate unpredictable challenges. Optimize for learning through experimentation and apply these insights to real-world problems. Avoid control-heavy environments that stifle innovation and agility by thinking holistically about risks. Join us as we unpack these ideas and share strategies to foster a responsive, trust-based culture in your teams and organizations. 🎧 Don’t miss this episode! Subscribe to the Mob Mentality Show on your favorite platform: https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/ FYI: Video and more show notes: https://youtu.be/ghzOSV4waIo  

Is some refactored code truly better—or is it just a matter of taste? In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we explore the debate: Is some refactoring a subjective preference or an objective improvement? Join us as we dive into the fascinating world of refactoring, where code quality, team dynamics, and even artificial intelligence (AI) come into play. Here’s what we discussed: The Ice Cream Debate: The story of a team/mob navigating a series of refactorings and asking, Are these changes about style, like preferring chocolate over vanilla? Or is there an objective improvement in the code? Cognitive Load, Cyclomatic Complexity, and More: How refactored code impacts key factors like cognitive load (mental effort required to understand code), cyclomatic complexity (a measure of the number of independent paths through a program), readability, and maintainability. Copilot AI's Take: Results of analyzing “before and after” versions of refactored code using Copilot AI (a large language model or LLM trained for coding). Does the AI agree with human developers? Gray Areas vs. Black-and-White Decisions: How much of refactoring is clear-cut improvement versus a matter of debate? Coaching Through Disagreements: Strategies to coach a team through potentially heated refactoring disagreements. Should you stick to principles or let the team run experiments in production against the principles? Decision-Making Tactics: How to align on contentious refactoring decisions. Should you flip a coin, follow a guiding principle, or defer to team consensus? Principles and North Stars: Identifying which coding principles matter most to your team and using them as a decision-making anchor. Dealing with Apathy: How to engage team members who are indifferent to coding principles and quality debates. 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Applying Stephen Covey’s timeless principles to facilitate productive refactoring discussions and team collaboration. Diversity of Opinion as a Strength: Embracing different perspectives to make your team or mob/team stronger and more innovative. Radical Candor vs. Safe Experiments: Balancing direct feedback with the freedom to experiment—even if it means running tests in production. “Stop the Line” Moments: Deciding when a refactoring disagreement is serious enough to halt progress versus letting safe experiments play out. Whether you’re a developer, team lead, or software architect, this episode is packed with insights to improve your approach to refactoring and team dynamics. 👉 Don’t miss this thought-provoking discussion!  Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/s2bl7dFAIV0  

What happens when teams, codebases, or systems scale beyond their limits? In this thought-provoking episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we tackle this hyperbole: “Is scaling the root of all evil?” We explore how the challenges of scale—in team size, code complexity, and even societal structures—might be the culprit. 💡 Key Discussion Points: Defining Scale Across Contexts: How does scale impact teams, classrooms, codebases, and more? Innovation vs. Scale: Does scaling stifle the spread of good ideas, principles, and practices (e.g., in law, culture, or workplace norms)? Interpersonal Challenges: Why do interpersonal problems grow exponentially in larger groups? Code Quality and Scale: Does a larger codebase inherently lead to lower quality? Focus and Attention: How does scale dilute individual and team focus? What happens to attention in scaled systems? Second-Order Effects: Are rigid systems designed to handle scale unintentionally creating harmful side effects—and even side effects of those side effects? Experimentation and Innovation: How do rigid systems inhibit experimentation, and why does this matter for growth and innovation? Descaling as a Solution: Are the best solutions to scaling problems simply about reducing scale? Inverse Conway Maneuver: Exploring this organizational design concept and its relevance to scaling. Lessons from Coaching: How scaling challenges in youth baseball practices compare to leading software development teams. 🎯 Why You Should Watch/Listen This episode touches on the consequences of uncontrolled growth, from technical issues in software engineering to cultural and organizational challenges. Learn why "descaling" could be the key to improving focus, quality, and innovation in your team or organization. Plus, discover how mobbing (collaborative software development) naturally counters the pitfalls of scaling. 📢 Don’t miss out! Subscribe now on your favorite platform: https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/ Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/YLeyRHcI-eI  

Join us in this exciting episode of the Mob Mentality Show as we dive deep into the fascinating intersection of mob programming, neuroscience, and team dynamics with the insightful Mike Bowler! Mike brings over a decade of experience facilitating mob programming sessions across hundreds of teams and countless experiments. Whether you're a software developer, team coach, or collaboration enthusiast, this conversation will leave you with actionable insights and inspiring takeaways. 🔍 What We Discuss: - A Different Approach to Facilitating Mob Programming Sessions - The Neuroscience of Psychological Safety and Mobbing - Team Flow States and Brainwave Activity - About Mike Bowler 📢 Don’t Miss Out! Subscribe to the Mob Mentality Show on your favorite platform to learn more about innovative collaboration techniques and team success. 🔗 Find us here: https://www.mobmentalityshow.com Video and show notes: https://youtu.be/okeAxvRggVc 

What does it take to shift from fear to flow when reading and refactoring code? In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we dive deep into **"Paradigms of Code Reading"**, exploring the mindsets and techniques that shape how developers approach software understanding. Whether you're navigating legacy code or striving for clean, maintainable designs, this discussion offers actionable insights for individuals, pairs, and mobs alike.   ### What You’ll Learn in This Episode:   - **Code Reading Paradigms**: Discover the two ends of the spectrum:     - **Understand Every Line**: Keeping every detail in your head.     - **Extreme Abstraction Zen**: Focusing only on the current module or method.   - **AB Testing in Code Reading**: Insights from live experiments on how pairs and mobs read and understand code.   - **The Role of Trust**: How levels of trust in variable names, methods, and classes influence reading strategies.   - **Overcoming Fear and Skepticism**: What causes developers to ignore method names or distrust the knowledge baked into the code?   - **Cognitive Load and Flow Efficiency**: Learn how reducing cognitive load through small, fast tests can lead to more effective coding sessions.   - **Code Reading Clubs**   - **Coaching Toward Abstraction Zen**: Practical strategies to influence and support others in adopting better reading and refactoring paradigms.   - **Embracing Skeptics**: The value of radical candor, genuine curiosity, and visual aids like diagrams in addressing fear and building trust.   ### Key Takeaways:   - Refactoring starts with trust - Genuine curiosity can replace complaints, transforming how teams collaborate and learn.   - Drawing pictures and visualizing code can unlock new perspectives and improve comprehension.   - Skeptics are not obstacles—they're opportunities for deeper conversations and better design.   Whether you're a seasoned software engineer, a pair programming enthusiast, or new to mob programming, this episode will provide you with practical tools and thought-provoking questions to enhance your coding practice.   💡 **Want to stay ahead in your software journey?** Don't miss this deep dive into the cognitive, emotional, and technical aspects of reading code.   🔗 **Subscribe to the Mob Mentality Show**:   Get notified as soon as this episode drops! Available on all major platforms:   👉 https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/   🎧 Tune in to unlock new paradigms for code reading and refactoring. Let’s move from fear to flow together! Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/pXEp6jBeycs 

In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we dive into our Software Professional Resources Board, a dynamic Trello-based hub designed for software professionals looking to enhance their learning and collaboration in the industry. Join us as we share the board’s origin story and our journey in creating a comprehensive resource for everything from Extreme Programming (XP), mobbing, and leadership to cloud infrastructure, agile retrospectives, lean principles, and much more. ### What Makes Our Board Unique? We start by exploring why we chose **Trello** for our resource board and how it has become a cornerstone for organizing, sharing, and discovering knowledge. With its flexibility, Trello enables us to create an easily navigable environment, where resources are not only organized but can also be searched, linked, and explored across various software domains. Our conversation touches on other similar boards we’ve seen, like our popular "Retrospective Techniques for Coaches, Scrum Masters, and Facilitators" board, as well as spin-offs we’ve created for specific topics. ### A Variety of Topics Our board covers a broad spectrum of topics that are essential for modern software professionals, including **mobbing**, **refactoring**, **leadership**, **Infrastructure as Code (IaC)**, **agile** practices, and more. With resources curated for both technical and strategic learning, the board has become a go-to reference for articles, blog posts, videos, academic papers, book links, and quotes on various disciplines within software development. ### How We Use the Board for Continuous Learning Discover how we leverage the board not only to organize information but to foster continuous learning. We discuss Chris’ “community-supported learning binges” and our process for capturing insightful book quotes and key takeaways, turning the board into a knowledge-sharing powerhouse for software teams and individual contributors alike. ### Refactoring the Mind: Evolving the Board to Stay Relevant Our discussion also delves into the concept of "refactoring my mind by refactoring the board"—an idea about how reorganizing knowledge can improve our mental clarity and adaptability in complex projects. This involves regularly revisiting, reshaping, and expanding board content to reflect the latest insights and trends in software development, keeping it a living, breathing resource for our community. ### The Impact of Public Knowledge Sharing One of the most inspiring aspects of this board is its role in **public knowledge sharing**. We highlight feedback from the community, stories of how others have used the board in their professional journeys, and our own experiences with learning in public. By sharing this resource openly, we invite others to benefit from it, create connections, and add to the body of knowledge that supports software development excellence. Whether you’re a developer, coach, Scrum Master, or technical leader, this episode offers valuable insights into how to create and use a resources board to drive personal and team growth. Listen in for tips on organizing knowledge, capturing valuable insights, and using community feedback to make a resource board that truly enhances your software development journey. ### Topics Discussed: - The board's origin story and why we chose Trello - Organizing, searching, and sharing resources in Trello - Similar boards, including "Retrospective Techniques for Coaches, Scrum Masters, and Facilitators" - Variety of topics: mobbing, XP, leadership, IaC, agile, cloud, business, tech, retrospectives, and more - Types of media: articles, blogs, videos, book quotes, academic papers, and beyond - Spin-off boards and community learning sessions - Feedback from the community and lessons for public knowledge sharing **Subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform to catch this episode and more!** Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/GmfWWiIeaVY 

In this Mob Mentality Show episode, we dive into the journey of Jeff “Cheezy” Morgan, a coach in Continuous Delivery (CD) and lean thinking. Known for his role in advocating for CD within companies, Jeff shares how his experiences with software development and his recent shift into the café business have shaped his philosophy on people and just-in-time. This discussion explores how Jeff’s approach to Agile and CD evolved, his journey into Extreme Programming (XP), and how mob programming impacted his perspective on teamwork and Continuous Integration (CI).  **Jeff’s Agile and CD Journey** We start with Jeff’s introduction to Agile, discussing the early days of his career when dev practices didn’t include CD and the impact of adopting CD in high-stakes projects like Y2K. Jeff describes how learning from Thoughtworks influenced his views on XP and CD, and how he became an advocate, eventually taking CD to different organizations. He also shares what it was like discussing with Woody Zuill and Llewellyn Falco and reflects on the transformative role mob programming has played in his career. **From Pairing to Mobbing**   For Jeff, mob programming was not initially appealing, but over time it became his preferred approach for helping teams. We explore how mobbing enhances CI, tightens communication, and fosters collective learning. Jeff explains how mobbing enables "just-in-time" discussions that align teams on what to build and how it allows real-time feedback on other team members’ learning. Jeff also examines the transition from pairing to mobbing, the challenges of mob programming with CI/CD, and why mobbing helps him “get the whole system in the room” for tackling complex problems. **Quality Without QA?**   We dive into the controversial idea of achieving high quality without traditional Quality Assurance (QA). Jeff opens up about years spent wrestling with the role of QA in Agile/CD environments and shares experiments with “test-infected” developers—who took full ownership of quality. He reflects on the pitfalls of relying on “heavyweight” traditional QA processes and automated tests, which often create lean waste, add handoffs, and introduce brittle, flakey tests. Jeff and hosts Austin and Chris discuss whether “shift left” is merely a shift away from QA, the Deming Red Bead experiment’s relevance, and whether there’s a happy journey for QA professionals on CD teams. **Applying Lean to Cafés**   Outside the tech world, Jeff has found a second passion—running cafés. We discuss how owning two cafés influenced Jeff’s perspective on Lean thinking and Agile principles. From supply chain issues during COVID to needing backup suppliers, Jeff discusses if “just-in-time” challenges in the café world mirror software development. He shares valuable insights about hiring, managing consistent delivery, and applying Lean principles to run a resilient business. Additionally, Jeff and Chris exchange stories on chip shortages and if Lean can help address real-world supply chain issues. **More from Jeff**   Finally, we tackle some big questions: What does DevOps mean in today’s Agile world? Should “DevOps” be responsible for shielding organizations from developers? How does Test-Driven Development (TDD) factor into DevOps scripts, and can mobbing help break down silos that traditionally separated devs, ops, and QA? Join us for this wide-ranging conversation with Jeff “Cheezy” Morgan to uncover actionable insights for anyone involved in Agile, CD, DevOps, or Lean. Whether you're in software, QA, or running a small business, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways on quality, learning, and resilience.  Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/OJ5d6qLIQRY   

In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, join us as we delve into "The Discovery of Ignorance in Product Development: Time for a Smarter Way to Deliver Customer Value" with our special guest, Gary Cohen. Drawing on his rich experience across diverse sectors—from government agencies to startups—Gary brings a wealth of insight into optimizing product discovery and delivery for true customer impact.  ### **Key Topics Explored: The Product Discovery and Delivery Intersection** Even if a team is familiar with the 80/20 rule (e.g., where 80% of features go unused), how does it determine the right 20% to deliver? Gary shares strategies to tackle this challenge, advocating for a shift from traditional roadmap fixation to embracing dynamic, continuous discovery that keeps customer value at the forefront. Together, we examine the effectiveness of "strict" roadmap discipline (the practice of adhering to set timelines and objectives) and if it becomes a barrier to true innovation and customer value. We also briefly touch on the FAST framework and its relevance to product discovery, emphasizing how collective discovery through mobbing allows teams to stay closer to evolving customer needs.  ### **The Role of GenAI in Modern Product Development** Is AI is reshaping product discovery? We explore how GenAI can be a collaborative asset for mobs, not only for code development but also for bringing value by uncovering insights into customer behavior and streamlining feature prioritization. We compare "introverted" AI and "extroverted" AI in mob environments and discusses how developing refined AI inquiry skills is key to leveraging AI’s full potential. From training mobs in nuanced prompt engineering to using AI to help drive a more lean delivery, we share ways to maximize AI's impact while maintaining expert human oversight.  ### **Bootstrapping Pair and Mob Programming in Individualist Cultures** Transitioning to collaborative programming environments such as pair or mob programming can be challenging, especially in workplaces with a culture of individuality. We offer quick tips on how to bootstrap these methods, from creating a safe space for experimentation to aligning incentives via a peer promotion process. By using context sensitive analogies, how can we influence others in the org to consider jumping into the highly effective world of mob programming? ### **Unpacking Behavioral Expectations: A Smarter Approach to Product Decisions** Beyond the technical, we look at the behavioral side of product monitoring, asking, “What responses do we expect from our users?” Gary emphasizes the importance of behavioral prediction in discovery, cautioning against information bias and providing ways to gauge responses to feature experiments in real-time. We highlight the importance of monitoring usage data and what it reveals about customer engagement—whether a feature elicits a “wow” or a mere “meh.” ### **Takeaways for Product Managers, Engineers, and Innovators** From continuous discovery to leveraging the art of AI prompting, Gary Cohen’s insights provide actionable advice for product managers, developers, and cross-functional teams who are ready to rethink their approach to product development and delivery. Whether you're looking to reduce waste, increase customer value, or integrate mob programming and GenAI into your workflow, this episode offers some experiments to try in your journey to achieve product success. Don’t miss this engaging discussion filled with actionable strategies, insightful anecdotes, and forward-thinking approaches to innovation!  Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/od7E_M9B6gI  

In this exciting episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we are joined by Kyle Griffin Aretae to dive deep into the nuances of Test-Driven Development (TDD) and the crucial concept of "Goal-Centricity" in Agile practices. Kyle breaks down why TDD is so much more than just "test first" and challenges common misconceptions about this widely used development practice. If you're a software developer, Agile enthusiast, or just someone looking to refine your team's development processes, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss. We explore why treating TDD as merely writing tests first misses the larger picture and how adopting a broader, more progressive approach can help your team build better, more maintainable software. Kyle shares his thoughts on the primary value proposition of TDD, focusing on **fast feedback loops** and the **refactor step** at least every 5 minutes. He explains how smaller, healthier TDD cycles allow developers to stay nimble and avoid the trap of feedback loops that last 30 minutes or more. Thus, when fast feedback loops with constant refactoring are in place as the foundation, then the "test first" aspect of TDD really shines.  Kyle also sheds light on common pitfalls, such as the misunderstanding of what it means to "do TDD" when developers claim they have 8 unit tests on 50,000 lines of code. We discusses the difference between **Cargo Cult XP (Extreme Programming)** and the real deal, as well as the critical role of **decoupling code** so tests can run in 5 seconds or less.  A key takeaway from this episode is the impact of **social programming**, TDD, and **CI/CD (Continuous Integration/Continuous Delivery) pipelines**. We explain the importance of the "Pipeline First" principle when writing new code. We then dive into Kyle's most controversial take on TDD: the idea that creating a **mini-plan** (a rough roadmap of what to do next) before writing tests might actually be more beneficial than strictly adhering to "test first." This, Kyle argues, leads to more robust code when integrated into strong social programming practices. We also touch on the application of **Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs** to TDD and the importance of satisfying basic development needs (like fast feedback and clean code) before tackling more complex issues. The episode continues with a discussion on the intersection of **Goal-Centricity** and Agile. Kyle questions whether Agile methods are effective without first agreeing on a clear goal. We explore scenarios where goals are unclear or where methods are imposed without understanding the desired outcomes. Kyle shares a fascinating example of a code freeze during "Black Friday" and the unintended consequences of such decisions. We also reference a powerful quote by **Deming**, "A goal without method is cruel," explaining how the opposite can be just as problematic. Throughout the conversation, we dive into the importance of aligning goals between management and development teams, avoiding the common trap of blindly delivering fixed requirements for bonuses, and how real Agile success comes from alignment on solving customer problems, not just ticking off tasks. Kyle emphasizes the need to start with a clear understanding of what you're trying to achieve before applying any method, whether it's Scrum or TDD. Don't miss out on this thought-provoking episode filled with actionable insights on TDD, Agile, and effective software development. Subscribe today and tune in to hear Kyle Griffin Aretae's unique take on how to elevate your development practices! Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/S7K8lSibmII