Episode 204: Welcome to Lex ExploreAI Series – What you can expect!

In many respects, generative AI has impacted few roles as directly as legal operations. These professionals sit at the epicentre of tech experimentation, deployment, adoption, evaluation and change. As the tech has evolved, so too has their role to right now, being part tech interpreter, teacher, multidisciplinary relationship builder, enterprise-wide and legal function collaborator, and connector. That’s been layered into what they have always done, practical problem solving to ensure the legal department responds to organisational needs with timely, measured, candid and practical solutions for the day-to-day business at hand. With GenAI, some of the problems are new and/or have become more complex. Solutions have had to evolve as the tech has evolved at an unprecedented pace, scale, and level of pervasive impact not seen before. And, old issues have also remained and have changed too like corporate responsibilities for data governance, privacy, ethics, cybersecurity, all culminating in an expanding portfolio of compliance and risk management. We discussed all of this and much more with CLOC Australia’s co-leads: Katrina Gowans, Legal Operations Professional; Anna Golovsky, Executive Manager Legal and Company Secretariat Operations, IAG; and Matt Duncan, Legal Operations, Australian Retirement Trust. In addition to their thoughts on the topics above, their passion for their work and for the community that CLOC has created globally and locally was clear. In their view the big impact of GenAI on the legal ops role is one of expansion – more opportunities to support, assist, and connect legal to what is happening in our ecosystem but also to the critical and changing role of legal departments within their own companies. There is a discernible opportunity, identified in this discussion, for digitally literate professionals with human skills in influencing, persuasion, adaptability, flexibility, relationship building and more than anything else, curiosity, to join and enhance a career in legal ops. We concluded our chat with a preview of what those curious professionals can expect from two CLOC Australia amazing events in Sydney in August 2025: CLOC Academy (19 August) for new and immediate next level legal ops professionals – you’ll find registration details here; and  CLOC Australia Summit 2025 (20 August) for everyone interested and working in legal ops – you’ll find registration details here. If you want a glimpse into how GenAI is impacting legal ops today and in the future, you’ll want to spend a little time listening to this podcast or watching the video – you’ll find the video here.   About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: [email protected].

Prompt engineering has captured our interest, been at the core of our frustration and continues to find its way into our new way of working in the post ChatGPT era. But like the tech it is so integrally tied to, generative AI, knowing you need to be good at prompting is not the same as being good at it – it requires context, application, refinement and education at a pace, scale and continuous engagement like we have never seen before. The Centre for Legal innovation launched its Distinguished Fellowship in Emerging Technologies with this in mind. Our Fellow, Dr. Mitchell Adams, Senior Lecturer, Swinburne Law School, focussed his highly successful Fellowship on legal prompt engineering and, through the many discussions, clinics, research and significant amount of work that followed, collected together the learnings and experience sharing in an amazing publication – a comprehensive, free Legal Prompt Engineering Guide. In this session, we spoke with Mitchell about his Fellowship: what he learned; the impact of the tech on the legal industry; how prompting has changed the way we work…forever; and how he is incorporating all of this into his work as a legal educator. It’s a journey best undertaken as part of an ever and rapidly evolving global community of generative AI fans who understand the strengths and limitations of the tech, but also know that what is coming next, is already in the pipeline! This is a Spotlight not to be missed! You’ll find your free copy of the Legal Prompt Engineering Guide ready for download here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video here.   About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: [email protected].

On 7 May 2025, in the fourth podcast in CLI’s Legal GenAI Conversations Series Terri Mottershead, Executive Director of the Centre for Legal Innovation was joined by three amazing guests to discuss The Lawyerless Law Firm – Myth or Reality in 2030? Miriam Rihani, Head of Transformation and Legal Operations (OGC), PwC Australia Laura Vickers, Founding Director, Nest Legal Dominic Woolrych, CEO and Co-Founder, Lawpath Topics covered in this session included: Whether or not we are close – technologically, culturally, and commercially - to a truly lawyerless law firm and what key barriers stand in the way If we are likely to see lawyerless business models emerge in certain sizes of practices or areas of practice, while others remain lawyer-led If the promise of broader access to justice via AI can be reconciled with the safeguards lawyers have traditionally provided If the future of legal practice is less about lawyering, more about tech, or a complete redefinition of legal roles Where human lawyers can add the most irreplaceable value in a tech-enabled legal system Who should build and enforce the guardrails in a world where legal professionals are integrally intertwined with the tech and, how we guard against self-interest If the lawyerless law firm will be a positive or negative addition to the legal ecosystem You’ll find details about the other topics we’ll be discussing in this series here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this episode, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free Resource Hub here.  Don’t forget to join CLI’s free Legal Generative AI Community here – it’s a lightly curated daily news feed on all things legal GenAI.

There’s little more fundamental to every business than revenue. In law firms, for a while now, that’s been measured by the billable hour. In most law firms today, we still wrap up hours billed in the same parcel as expertise, performance, and value. That’s a BIG problem and it’s getting bigger as AI and particularly generative AI is completing tasks faster, better, and cheaper AND starting to advance into complex problem solving too! So, what does that mean for law firms? Can we/should we all immediately convert to fixed fees, subscriptions and/or value-based pricing or something entirely new? What happens if we do? What happens if we don’t? Where do we go to figure it out? We chatted about all of that and more on 16 April 2025 in the third podcast in CLI’s Legal GenAI Conversations Series on Will GenAI kill the billable hour…ever? Terri Mottershead, Executive Director of the Centre for Legal Innovation was joined by three amazing guests with a wealth of experience to share from Australia and New Zealand: Melissa Lyon, Executive Director & Experience Designer, Hive Legal and CLI Advisory Board member Gene Turner, Managing Director, LawHawk and CLI Advisory Board member Tessa van Duyn, CEO and Practice Leader, Moores and CLI Advisory Board member Topics covered in this episode included: Whether generative AI has put pressure on law firms to reconsider the billable hour, or if it is still mostly hype What are the most viable alternative fee models are and how if generative AI making these more attractive or feasible The key advantages and disadvantages of moving away from the billable hour toward alternative fee arrangements in a GenAI powered legal landscape How law firms have managed the impact of alternative models on lawyer and allied legal professional remuneration, bonuses, performance reviews and career progression The key focus for law firms to have in mind when deciding to move from the billable hour model You’ll find details about the other topics we’ll be discussing in this series here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this episode, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free Resource Hub here. Don’t forget to join CLI’s free Legal Generative AI Community here – it’s a lightly curated daily news feed on all things legal GenAI.

Every aspect of legal practice is transforming before our eyes with AI as the catalyst and the enabler.  It’s a challenging time for law firm leaders - it’s definitely not a role for the faint hearted. On 18 March 2025, in the second podcast in CLI’s Legal GenAI Conversations Series Terri Mottershead, Executive Director of the Centre for Legal Innovation was joined by three law firm leaders from Australia and New Zealand to discuss this and much more in Legal leaders in the AI era – Are we there yet? Simon Newcomb, Partner, Clayton Utz Dan Proietto, Chief Executive Partner, Lander & Rogers Prue Tyler, Founder and Director, SHIFT Advisory Limited Topics covered in this session included: Whether law firm leaders need to think differently and lead differently in the AI era Whether AI demanded a fundamental rethink of law firm structures, billing models, and governance and if so, how? How you reskill lawyers, attract new talent, create multidisciplinary teams, and redefine roles to thrive alongside AI How you introduce and embed AI without overwhelming everyone in the process With AI democratising legal knowledge and making legal services/products/solutions more accessible, how law firms can stand out, create, and sustain unique value Where law firms need to be on the AI Maturity Scale in the next 12 months, why, and how they will know if they have hit the mark You’ll find details about the other topics we’ll be discussing in this series here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this episode, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free Resource Hub here. Don’t forget to join CLI’s free Legal Generative AI Community here – it’s a lightly curated daily news feed on all things legal GenAI.

Generative AI has created a critical role for educators. Everyone is learning something new, and educators know how to make that meaningful and stick. Whether the tech is forcing us to challenge traditional mindsets, understand a new context for our work, experiment with new ways to work, or embrace different ways to collaborate with different people so we find the right solutions to new issues, educators have a pivotal role to play. In this session, we chatted with three professors in the US who took their individual experiences with generative AI, and their learnings in their respective disciplines, to create a resource and community for legal educators to learn, share, and do more with this tech – they called it The Law Profs GenAI Sandbox. Our discussion with the fabulous founders of the Sandbox: Will Monroe, Assistant Director for Instructional Technology, LSU Law Library, LSU Paul M. Hebert Law Center; Tracy Norton, Assistant Professor of Law, Erick Vincent Anderson Professor, LSU Law Center; and Susan Tanner, Assistant Professor of Law, Louis D. Brandeis School of Law, University of Louisville, was enlightening and inspiring. We kicked off with where generative AI is taking higher education; delved into how the Sandbox started and where it might go next; and concluded with benchmarking where and how educators can embrace the tech. But, what was also evident throughout the entire discussion was the joy, excitement, and passion these profs have for finding ways to use the tech so it enhances learning for students and supports their colleagues in using it effectively and efficiently too. If you are working in education and particularly legal education, you will not want to miss this one! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video here. About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: [email protected]

This podcast was recorded on 20 February 2025, as the inaugural session in CLI’s Legal GenAI Conversations Series. In this session, Terri Mottershead, Executive Director of the Centre for Legal Innovation discussed The Lawyer Mindset with global superstar former lawyer, psychologist and legal industry consultant Dr. Larry Richard, Founder and Principal Consultant at LawyerBrain LLC. Topics covered in this session included: Defining and understanding how the lawyer mindset is different How the lawyer mindset is impacted by, and impacts, continuous change How lawyers can best manage and cope with the GenAI enabled pace and breadth of change You’ll find details about the other topics we’ll be discussing in this series here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this episode, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free Resource Hub here. Don’t forget to join CLI’s free Legal Generative AI Community here – it’s a lightly curated daily news feed on all things legal GenAI.

This podcast was recorded on 5 February 2025, as the inaugural session in CLI’s Lex ExploreAI Series. In this session  host Courtney Blackman, Head of Partnerships and Program Director of the LawTech Hub & AI Clinical Placements at Lander & Rogers joined Terri Mottershead, Executive Director of the Centre for Legal Innovation to discuss: The state of legal AI The work being done in AI at Lander & Rogers What you can expect from this series in 2025 You’ll find details about the other sessions in this series here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this episode, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free Resource Hub here. Want to keep the legal AI fires burning? Please join CLI’s Legal Generative AI Global Community here for a free, lightly curated daily news feed on all things legal GenAI.

We’re back for our sixth year and what a year it has been for legaltech, AI and innovation! If 2023 was the year to figure out what generative AI was all about, then 2024 was most definitely the year for pilots, experimentation, and strategies for data and AI. Well, that was how it went for some, but not everyone… In this, our annual year in review, we discussed what happened and where the dust settled in 2024 with Caryn Sandler, Partner and Chief Knowledge & Innovation Officer at Gilbert + Tobin and Co-chair of the CLI Advisory Board; Graeme Grovum, Head of Legal Technology and Client Services at Allens and Host of CLI’s Legal Ops Clinic in 2024; and Tessa van Duyn, CEO and Practice Leader at Moores and member of the CLI Advisory Board. We started this session by discussing the discernible shift in mindset during 2024 from questioning if the legal industry should engage with generative AI, to embracing it as well as understanding and learning how to manage its issues – we collectively reached a new level of AI maturity!  As we dug deeper on impacts, we identified some key changes enabled by AI, particularly generative AI, to the business and practice of law this year, including: Non-negotiable “must haves” for the tech – easy to use, convenient, clearly identifiable benefits. New levels of tech engagement – GenAI creates a space where “personal life meets professional life” and consequently its uptake has been faster and at an unprecedented scale.  Redefining collaboration – different partnerships, different interactions, different client engagements, emerging coalitions of competitors working and learning together, all focused on building a strong legal ecosystem that delivers on the potential, promises, and opportunities of generative AI but also knows how to manage its challenges. Redefining legal work - from conception to delivery and everything in between. Redefining value – what matters most, authenticity or efficiency and, are they the only choices? Where does pricing and billing by the hour fit into all of this? Redefining capabilities for practice – meeting people where they are so they can work out where they need to go together and individually. Redefining metrics – are we measuring impact or use or something else? Are metrics the same for this tech for all its uses? We need to know if the investment in the tech is moving us forward, or not, but it may be well into 2025 before we work this one out. Redefining employment and workforce – employees are now in search of digitally enabled employers and employers in search of digitally and data literate employees. Is going to a law firm or legal department that is not tech-enabled now a career-limiting move? What will that do to the legal workforce? Embracing capabilities where you find them, not where you expect them – making the tech available to everyone can result in an expansion of roles, new roles, and uncovering tech-related capabilities that enhance careers and your workforce where they may have otherwise remained hidden. Understanding that the pace and scale of change is now a constant and must be proactively managed. We need to understand the human consequence of this i.e., unparalleled change fatigue and the need to focus on human wellbeing more than ever before. And, Graeme demonstrated his interactive avatar too – we all want him to build us one! We wrapped with what will come next in 2025. Will ops teams lead the way? Will our humanity and creativity be best explored through play? Will a growing sophistication in how we use GenAI, especially by clients, reinvent the B2B, B2C and D2C markets? Thank you sooooo much Caryn, Graeme and Tessa – this is a session we look forward to every year and we’re certain you will too – don’t miss this one!  If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video here. About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series, we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: [email protected].

In this session, we spoke with Mark Williams, a Founding Co-Director of the Vanderbilt AI Law Lab (VAILL) and a Professor of the Practice of Law at the AIGP. Mark has come to AI via journalism, law, sometime in the political world and knowledge management. In many respects, his work now draws on that rich professional and personal life experience. Today, Mark is deeply immersed in working with and educating future generations of lawyers through the AI Law Lab. The Lab is a hands-on, multidisciplinary, experiential learning opportunity at Vanderbilt Law School (VLS). The VLS AI Law Lab is preparing law graduates for the next generation of legal practice and leadership. It’s modelling a different way of teaching and learning in partnership with industry - one that is comfortable with experimentation and supports students in understanding the tech, its limitations and opportunities, from the ground up. VLS’s has a long history in transformative legal education, especially in the tech/AI space. We chatted with Mark about that too i.e., what drives VLS’s leadership, mindset, and comfort with embracing new, different, and supporting their graduates to do that too…their secret sauce! We wrapped this conversation by discussing the broader impact of AI education in the legal industry - the importance of digital and data literacy and, if we have arrived, or still edging towards, a different type of legal practice.  Don’t miss this spotlight, if you haven’t engaged with AI before now, this will be your catalyst to start your journey today! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video here. About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: [email protected].