Glenn Loury On Being A Minority Within A Minority (Re-Aired)

In our last summer-break podcast two-fer, we’re re-running two very different conversations on sex and race, with two very different characters: Louise Perry and Glenn Loury. Next Friday we’ll be back with fresh Dish as the new season of Dishness kicks off after Labor Day with some great guests lined up for the fall.We’ll also be introducing Weekly Dish 3.0! Stay tuned.Louise is a writer and campaigner against sexual violence. She co-founded a non-partisan, feminist think tank called The Other Half, and she’s currently a WSJ columnist and the host of the Maiden Mother Matriarch podcast. In this 2022 episode, we discussed her book The Case Against the Sexual Revolution: A New Guide to Sex in the 21st Century.A polished transcript is here. You can find two clips on YouTube: on whether Louise finds it suitable to watch porn while married, and if gay promiscuity is more harmful than straight promiscuity.See you next Friday. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

In our last summer-break podcast two-fer, we’re re-running two very different conversations on sex and race, with two very different characters: Glenn Loury and Louise Perry. Next Friday we’ll be back with fresh Dish as the new season of Dishness kicks off after Labor Day with some great guests lined up for the fall.We’ll also be introducing Weekly Dish 3.0! Stay tuned.Glenn is an academic, writer, and podcaster. At the age of 33, he became the first African-American professor of economics at Harvard to get tenure. He’s currently the Merton P. Stoltz Professor of Economics at Brown University, a columnist for UnHerd, and co-host of The Glenn Show, alongside John McWhorter. In this early 2023 episode, we talked about Glenn’s incredibly colorful life, and he subsequently published his memoir, Late Admissions: Confessions of a Black Conservative. So in this conversation we got a preview of the book: the product of a remarkable American life.Read a polished transcript here. You can hear two clips on YouTube — how the insistence on the permanence of “white supremacy” hurts African-Americans, and how we are all “hypocrites” to some extent. Other topics covered: Glenn’s parents dealing with him as a prodigy; dropping out of college with a newborn; rebounding to MIT and Harvard; being ostracized by the black cognoscenti; his drug addiction; his conversion to Christianity; his loss of faith; falling out with the neocon right; the racial wealth gap; and affirmative action.See you next Friday. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)Charles is a writer, social scientist, and longtime friend. He currently holds the F.A. Hayek Chair Emeritus in Cultural Studies at AIE, and his many books include Losing Ground, The Bell Curve (co-authored with Richard Herrnstein), Coming Apart, Facing Reality, and Taking Religion Seriously (which we covered last year). In this May 2021 pod, he and I discussed Human Diversity — a book that received little attention compared to the others. If you think you know who Charles is from the way the MSM has portrayed him for years, this conversation may surprise you.Like Cornel West, Charles is a one-off: absurdly brave (or dumb) in wading into truly touchy subjects, and always with reason. In many ways, I think if we’d been able to have a serious debate about The Bell Curve all those years ago — and I tried to encourage one — we might have avoided some awful subsequent mistakes. But we resorted to abuse and hysteria and went on to enact Woke 1.0 and, now, Woke 2.0.Go here for a polished transcript of Charles. We also have three clips on YouTube: on the different career choices of high IQ women; the “unearned gift” of a high IQ; and IQ’s irrelevance to the human worth, dignity, and essential equality of all people. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)The academic career of Cornel West is long and storied. He has taught religion, philosophy, and African-American studies at Yale, Princeton, Harvard, and Union Theological Seminary. He has written or contributed to more than 20 books, including Race Matters and Democracy Matters — but he recommends you start with Chekhov.I met Cornel decades ago, when I interviewed him at Union Theological Seminary for a TNR piece I was writing on divinity schools. He has long fascinated me, and Race Matters had a real impact on me decades ago. Erudite, passionate, and deeply humane, he is an unapologetically leftist Christian who is also a champion of free speech, civility, and the classics. In other words: a rare and beautiful man.A key theme of the Dishcast is a willingness to talk to anyone across the political and ideological spectrum. We thought it would be cool if we re-aired this episode alongside that with Charles Murray, a philosophical opposite, but also a deeply decent man.Go here for a polished transcript of Cornel. We also have two clips on YouTube: on how he finds common ground with bigots and racists, and his take on CRT and the 1619 Project. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)In addition to the Middle East, another topic that has generated a lot of heat on the Dish since 2020 is the issue of the gender revolution and the TQ+ movement. So here are two perspectives from an early pod — that shows again how we at the Dish have genuinely sought the truth in this area, have listened to all sides, and aired all the arguments. Almost no other place does this anymore. Which is why we’re so grateful for your support and subscriptions.Buck Angel was a pioneering porn star — the only trans man to ever win Transsexual Performer of the Year at the AVN Awards — and today he’s a sex educator, motivational speaker, and entrepreneur. Helena Kerschner is a young woman who lived as a man on hormone therapy for several years before detransitioning. Buck’s transition saved his life, while Helena’s transition was a bit of a calamity, but they share a resistance to the dogma of the trans activist community and speak forcefully and elegantly against it.Go here for a polished transcript. Four clips on YouTube are also available: on the cult-like behavior of many trans activists; on the risks of puberty blockers; on the profound effects of testosterone; on how the hormone caused Buck, a former lesbian, to become attracted to men for the first time.This episode is part of an ongoing series on the lives of transgender people and the debates surrounding one of the most polarizing subjects of today, especially when it comes to kids transitioning. Our previous episodes welcomed three happily transitioned and brilliant women — Dana Beyer, Mara Keisling, Brianna Wu — along with a remarkable trans man, Shannon Minter. All of them pushed back against my views, and we agreed on a lot as well. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.)The Middle East has become one of the most contested topics here at the Dish. So on our summer break, we thought we’d run some classics, popular with Dishheads and ageing well. So here’s the great and humane Yossi Klein Halevi from 2022.Yossi is an American-born Israeli journalist, and his latest book is Letters to My Palestinian Neighbor. After our pod with Peter Beinart in July 2021, many of you recommended Yossi to balance out the discussion on Israel. I was grateful for the suggestion and truly enjoyed our January 2022 talk — alternately honest and difficult. How can one admire Israel while also being candid about its flaws? How deeply utopian was Zionism in the first place?Go here for a polished transcript. We also have two clips on YouTube — on the “bizarre, tragic” history of Zionism, and on the intractable nature of the Israeli settlements. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.com(The full Dish is on vacation until Friday, September 4. This week’s episode was recorded on July 21.)John is a journalist and political commentator. He’s the founder and president of the Danube Institute, the international editor of Quadrant Magazine, associate editor of the Hungarian Review, former editor of National Review, a fellow of the National Review Institute, and editor-at-large of National Review. He’s the author of several books, including Sleepwalking Into Wokeness.For two clips of the episode — on falling birth rates and immigration, and comparing Thatcher and Reagan — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up Catholic in Liverpool; his working-class parents; his dad on a hospital ship for D-Day; stories of John working closely with Thatcher; both of us British editors of US magazines in the early ‘90s; covering The Bell Curve; the Cold War and defeating the Soviets; muscular liberalism; Tony Blair and his tensions with Bush; what it means to be a conservative liberal; cosmopolitanism; the meaning of Englishness; oikophobia; multiculturalism; the World Cup; Trump and the Greenland threat; the Dem threat to democracy via institutions; the post-liberal left; Deneen and the post-liberal right; Trump getting Europe to bolster its own security; Ukraine; the Iran War and the nuclear threat; Trump’s character; the future of the GOP; AI and automation; Brits on the dole; the grooming gangs; Andy Burnham; premarital sex; how women civilize men; and the divorce rates among gays, lesbians, and straights.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Azam Ahmed on terrifying new drugs, Emily Eakin on postmodernism, and Arianna Huffington on anything but politics. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comRoss is a journalist and novelist. He’s the editor-in-chief of The Metropolitan Review, and a columnist for the Nation and UnHerd. He’s the author of six books, including his new novel, Colossus. A new non-fiction book, about the rise of Zohran Mamdani, is coming soon. Find much more of his writing on his substack, “Political Currents.”For two clips of the episode — on whether the DSA is truly dangerous, and the US elites’ obsession with Israel — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up Jewish in diverse Bay Ridge, BK; parents both federal workers; his dad working at the WTC on 9/11; Ross’ cynicism over Obama’s rise; coming of age in the Great Recession; the DNC screwing over Bernie in ‘16; Ross running for the state senate with Mamdani as his manager; identifying as “left-populist, woke-skeptical”; engaging and persuading ideological rivals; universal health care; questioning Covid policies; US aid to Israel; the horrors of Oct 7; the war in Gaza and the civilian toll; no pro-Palestine speakers at the ‘24 Dem convention; the decentralized DSA; calls to abolish prisons and the Senate; Jon Chait; AOC’s move to the center; border security; Trump’s norm-busting; Buckley and the Birchers; trans athletes; the + in LGBTQ+; corporations ditching DEI; the Arday scandal; The Odyssey; Jon Ossoff; the surprising surge of El-Sayed; and debating whether wokeness is dead.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Emily Eakin on postmodernism, Azam Ahmed on terrifying new drugs, and Arianna Huffington on anything but politics. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMegan is an old friend, a journalist, and an OG blogger — starting way back in 2001. We were bloggers at The Atlantic together, and she went on to write for Newsweek, The Daily Beast, and Bloomberg View. She’s now a WaPo columnist, a contributing writer at The Dispatch, and a co-host of the podcasts “Reasonably Optimistic” and “Central Air.” She’s also the author of The Up Side of Down: Why Failing Well Is the Key to Success.For two clips of the episode — on the appeal of socialism to those under 30, and the secrecy of ailing politicians — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up on the UWS; her prof dad meeting her mom while she TA’d for him; Frank Gannett in her family; peaking at 6’2’’ in 7th grade; an eating disorder to try to counter her height; the heightism of women on dating apps; the coziness of elites in DC; Fauci worship by the Dems; his coziness with Jake Tapper and Hollywood celebs; his diary; Fauci’s lie over masks; masks at the Floyd protests; vaccine mandates; lab leak; Mitch McConnell MIA; Rep. Granger in memory care; Rep. Kean’s depression; Biden’s infirmity; age limits on the presidency; FDR’s overreach; post-Nixon reforms; the constitutional crisis over the Iran War; dwindling Tomahawks; Lindsey Graham’s closeness with Bibi; 9/11 and Islamofascism; nuclear proliferation and the Saudis; whether Vance or Rubio would make a better successor to Trump; Rubio’s designs on Cuba; Vance’s populism and lecturing the Pope; presentism; Jon Ossoff; Rahm Emanuel; the Stonewall myth; misusing rape stats and the UVA hoax; critical theory; the DSA, and its over-educated, downwardly mobile youth.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Ross Barkan on the DSA and Mamdani, John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Emily Eakin on postmodernism, Arianna Huffington on AI, and Azam Ahmed on terrifying new drugs. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comRobert P. George is a legal scholar and political philosopher. At Princetown, he’s the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and the director of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. He’s also a senior fellow at both the American Enterprise Institute and the Witherspoon Institute, which he co-founded. His many books include Making Men Moral and In Defense of Natural Law. We spent many years sparring in print over marriage, gays, and Catholicism.For two clips of the episode — on disobeying unjust laws, and the supposed harms of gay marriage — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: his dad’s harrowing service in WWII; Robby growing up in Appalachia with his grandfathers in the coal mines; first in his family to go to college; stories of both of us being at Oxford at the same time; the origins of bluegrass; Robert Byrd’s legacy; Plato’s Gorgias; Aristotle and friendship; Robby’s close friendship with Cornel West; Montaigne; Aquinas; Vatican II; Eastern Orthodox liturgy; neo-scholasticism; Darwin’s survival of the fittest; Nietzsche; loving one’s enemy as uniquely Christian; just law and unjust law; MLK’s letter from a Birmingham jail; Hume; Oakeshott; natural law theorists vs legal positivists; the AIDS crisis; Christian marriage vs civil marriage; divorce; the Manhattan Declaration; Henry VIII’s annulments; the sexual habits of Clinton and Trump; illiberalism on the left and right; and the beached squids of Ptown.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Ross Barkan on the DSA and Mamdani, John O’Sullivan on conservatism, Azam Ahmed on terrifying new drugs, and Megan McArdle on pretty much anything. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to [email protected].