Freedom to Explore: the Magic of Play in the Therapeutic Setting, with Sarah Abel

Listening – it’s the cornerstone of human connection, yet the intricacies of depth therapy often remain hidden behind closed doors, bound by confidentiality. What if we could bring these transformative conversations into the public sphere and reveal the true magic that occurs within the therapeutic encounter?I’m Eileen Dunn, the voice behind The Art of Listening, and these are the very questions that led me to the creation of this podcast. As a psychoanalyst and clinical psychologist, my life’s work has been dedicated to uncovering the power of depth therapy, where the roles of speaker and listener are crucial to fostering personal growth and healing. Throughout this series, we've welcomed a range of guests, each with their own voice, insights, and experience. All committed to the human-to-human relationships at the heart of therapeutic transformation.So to conclude this series today, I wanted to share my own story and reflect on the creative process behind this podcast. In this final episode, we embark on the personal journey that led me to the field of clinical psychology. We consider the moments of pain and triumph that shaped my approach and helped me form the big questions that have consistently driven my work. And as we come to a close, I’ll share what I’m taking away from each of our distinguished guests, to draw meaningful, long-lasting lessons from the Art of Listening. Join me in this final episode as we delve into the heart of what makes listening so transformative. Chapters1 - The inspiration behind The Art of Listening 2 - Eileen’s background, upbringing, and journey to clinical psychology3 - The magic of listening and connection between speaker & listener4 - From “being” to “doing” - listening as openness to action5 - The importance of human connection in a modern world6 - Reflections and main takeaways from the seriesLinksEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ Key WordsHuman Connection, Therapeutic Space, The Foundation of Psychoanalysis, Psychoanalysis, Psychology, Therapy, Connection, Mental Health, Wellness, Empathetic Listening Psychoanalytic Perspectives, Counseling Techniques, Humanistic Therapy, Mental Health Solutions, Therapist-Patient Bond, Talk Therapy Advocacy, Mindful Listening, Profound Healing, Personal Development, Meaningful Conversations, Mental Health History, Clinical Psychology, Therapeutic Practices, Compassionate Therapy, Healing Through Talk, Empathy, Suffering, Psychoanalytic Theory, Psychotherapy, Psychoanalysis, Therapeutic Techniques, Humanity in Therapy, Humanity, Mental Health Treatments, Patient-Therapist Relationship, Advocacy for Talk Therapy, Eileen Dunn, Depth Talk Therapy, The Art of Listening, Mental Health Insights, Active Listening, Deep Listening, Deep Healing, Personal Growth, The Art of Listening Podcast, Meaningful Interactions, Disconnect in Modern Society, Research and History in Mental Health

We often think of our conscious experience as one driven by language. Our thoughts are shaped by words; our emotions processed in conversation. Yet, while language is a sharp tool for expression, the level of detail and nuance it affords us can also get us lost. And like many other animals, we communicate our needs before we’re able to speak. So what if consciousness, the quality of being us in the privacy of our mind, was in fact something else?My guest today has spent 40 years investigating what it means to be at once a brain, a mind and a psyche. And he has done away with complexity to conclude: “it’s all feelings”. Mark Solms is a renowned neuropsychologist, psychoanalyst, and researcher who has bridged the gap between two traditionally opposed disciplines: neuroscience and psychoanalysis. A pioneer in his field, and a true inspiration for many practitioners on both sides of the divide, Mark has shown that cognitive and analytical work are two sides of a coin, and that they have much to learn from each other.  In this episode of the Art of Listening, we let Mark Solms lead the way, to unpack his life's work. Drawing from difficult childhood experience, Mark reflects on what seeded his existential questions and led him to investigate the inner workings of the brain. Together, we get to grips with what constitutes a conscious experience, we question the legacy of Freud’s findings, and we tap into the power of Neuropsychoanalysis to enhance how we listen. Join us for a fascinating conversation with Mark Solms, and reconcile the study of the subject with the study of the object; of the brain, with the psyche. Chapters1 - The accident that changed Mark’s childhood 2 - First forays into neuroscience: daring to leave the beaten path3 - “Neuropsychotherapy” or how a new discipline is born4 - How cognitive and analytic approaches can benefit each other5 - Consciousness and language beyond verbal communication LinksMark SolmsMark’s BooksMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

The children we once were will always stay with us. And when we drift back to treasured moments from childhood, we find that our play was a great source of growth. Games, toys, and play-pretends helped us explore the world; they taught us how to interact with others and express our ideas for the first time. In fact, playing was integral to our personal development. So why did we ever give it up? And what happens when we continue to play, as adults? Our guest Sarah Abel has dedicated her career to these questions.  Sarah is a “reluctant adult”, a former teacher and social worker, who now works as a psychotherapist. She has spent 20 years in private practice, working with a range of patients, including children and adults. Her focus has always been to explore the dynamics of childhood development and recognize the value of play within our lives and within the therapeutic setting.On this episode of the Art of Listening, Sarah Abel takes us on a nostalgic journey back to our childhoods. Together, we reflect on the significance of play, exploring how it shapes our understanding of the world. We discuss how our bonds with our family define how we go on to interact with the world. And we delve into the power of play to reshape who we are and express ourselves in new ways, finding that in the psychoanalytic environment, play can knock down barriers between patient and therapist, and facilitate growth.Join us in conversation today, as we reconnect with our child-like curiosity and wonder, and learn (or re-learn) to play at every stage of life.Chapters1 - Stories from Sarah's early teaching and social work experiences (7:24)2 - The use of play in the psychoanalytic setting (15:06)3 - The role of family and parents in childhood development (18:41)4 - Attachment Patterns, and the lifelong effects of childhood (25:21)5 - What Sarah has learned from play and her work with children (31:12)LinksSarah AbelEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ Sarah’s Book ‘Calming Story Feelings’

When you think of a familiar memory, colors, images, scents and emotions can come to mind. Our imaginations hold the ability to transform even the simplest of experiences into sensorial memories. It is this same creativity that resides at the heart of the therapeutic hour. Inside the confines of the therapy room, we possess the power to recreate images that encapsulate our inner worlds and give voice to the thoughts and emotions that accompany us day after day.Rosa Aurora Chavez is a graduate and board-certified psychoanalyst, currently serving as a teacher and supervisor at both the Washington-Baltimore Center for Psychoanalysis and the China America Psychoanalytic Alliance. She is also an Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at George Washington University. Rosa Aurora's expertise extends beyond her clinical practice as a researcher studying creativity and the creative process, exploring its interconnection with mental health.On this episode of the Art of Listening, Rosa Aurora shares the story of a vibrant upbringing immersed in the world of art, and how it fueled her fascination around the creative process. Through her research, she has delved into the inner workings of creativity, shedding light on what stifles its potential and, conversely, what nurtures its flourishing. In her work as an analyst, she goes on discovering the purpose and the power of creativity.  Together, we will uncover what lies at the nexus of creativity and mental health, and explore the role of imagination in the therapeutic process.Join us as we venture into the human mind, to tap into the power of imagination and explore its potential to impact our lives.Chapters1 - Rosa Aurora’s upbringing and introduction to science and art2 - Rosa Aurora’s research findings on the creative process3 - How Rosa Aurora’s findings brought her back to analysis4 - The use of creativity and imagery in the therapeutic setting5 - The connection between creativity and love in PsychoanalysisLinksRosa Aurora ChavezRosa Aurora’s ResearchEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

In the hustle and bustle of our daily lives, some words of advice keep coming back around: “Look after yourself”, “self-care first”... Simple, in theory. But how do we truly prioritize our well-being? What can we do to build confidence and strength, and balance out our emotions, when life challenges us? Today’s guest has long grappled with these fundamental questions. Jamie Cromer Grue is a licensed clinical psychologist and psychoanalyst with over 25 years of clinical experience. She serves as an Executive Board member at the New Orleans-Birmingham Psychoanalytic Center and on the committee of the American Psychoanalytic Association. Outside of her therapeutic practice, she is also the CEO of Windows to Wisdom, a holistic wellness learning community for women.On this episode of the Art of Listening, Jamie shares how she has embraced her intent to care in her professional and personal life. From her first steps into psychotherapy to finding a new spiritual approach to healing, Jamie has committed herself to self-care at every turn. Today, she reflects on the challenges encountered along the way and shows us how to leave a place of burnout and dissatisfaction, to find a new beginning.Tune into Eileen and Jamie’s conversation for a true lesson in self-love, independence, and strength. Chapters1 - From Business to Psychology and Psychoanalysis2 - How to find your voice and correct past behaviors3 - Exploring the benefits of holistic practices3 - Aligning mind, body, and spirit: Jamie’s personal story of spiritual discovery 5 - Committing to self-care to better heal others LinksJamie Cromer GrueWindows to WisdomEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

Cultures are dynamic and powerful forces that shape our identities and influence our perspectives on the world. They serve as bridges, effortlessly connecting the depth of our heritage with the construction of our futures. But for Asian Americans, the balance between traditional values and modern ideals poses a distinct challenge as they strive to find their place within society.Between visibility and invisibility, the pervasive presence of racism, the necessity for adaptation, and the negotiation between individuality and community… The Asian American experience is as complex as it is resilient. Today’s guest embodies this truth in more ways than one. Kris Yi, Ph.D., Psy.D. is a licensed clinical psychologist and psychoanalyst with more than 25 years of clinical experience. Throughout her career, she has dedicated her work to highlighting and raising awareness of the Asian American experience, and racial bias within psychoanalysis.  In today’s episode, Kris invites us to step into her world. She illustrates her journey from South Korea to the United States, sharing the challenges of migration, the enduring impact of cultural trauma, and the art of finding the balance between two distinct cultures. Determined to break free from bias, Kris lends her voice to the Art of Listening, to offer a fresh and often overlooked perspective that defies stereotypes.Join us as Kris boldly rewrites the narrative of the Asian American experience, carving out a unique space within the realm of psychoanalysis.Chapters1 - Juggling Korean and American cultures (4:22)2 - Anti-Asian racism and the Model Minority myth (10:41)3 - Kris’s experiences with Discrimination and Hypersexualisation (17:14)4 - Historical racism in Psychoanalysis (22:41)5 - Bringing new visibility to the Asian Perspective (26:08)LinksKris YiKris’ Journal on the Asian Perspective in PsychoanalysisEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

If you tune into this podcast every week, you know that we often start our episodes with a moment of reflection. We speak about identity, self-expression, faith, understanding, and deep moments of existential questioning. This moment of connection is what the Art of Listening is all about. It's a collection of voices dedicated to depth talk therapy and understanding, and it will be complete in a handful of episodes. In the spirit of that, this week I would like to connect with you, listeners, to hear what you think of this podcast.What aspects of this project stay with you, week after week? What doesn’t resonate, sometimes? What do you want more of? And as we draw this collection to a close, do you have a wish for where we should take this podcast next?If you feel like sharing your experiences, your thoughts, or even personal stories related to this podcast, you can leave us a review, or reach out to me via email, at [email protected] from your perspective is another way to celebrate the power of listening. Together, let's create even more fruitful conversations. LinksEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

Music is an art form that connects us to others, beyond language and culture. It strikes a chord that moves us both physically and emotionally. In this sense, whether we're artists or amateurs, music can be a powerful outlet and refuge for our emotions and experiences. It holds the remarkable ability to facilitate feelings, transformation, and unity. Today's guest believes that too, and draws a parallel between music and the transformative nature of the therapeutic journey.Paula Kliger is a clinical psychologist and psychoanalyst with 30 years of experience treating children, adults, couples, families, and groups. Her connection to music runs deep. As a young musician, she toured the world and witnessed the profound curative capabilities of music firsthand. On this episode of The Art of Listening, Paula takes us on a captivating journey at the nexus of music and psychoanalysis. Reflecting on the invaluable lessons from her time as a performer and writer, Paula recounts her discovery of the power of music in healing others and, in turn, healing herself. As she advanced in her analytic career, delving into group work, trauma, and disaster relief, Paula’s musical knowledge continued to inform her approach. Today, she shares how creating an atmosphere and setting the right tone allows us to create safe spaces that foster understanding.Join us as Paula unveils her unique insights into the music of listening. Chapters1 - Life-changing stories from Paula’s travels as a touring musician2 - Music as a universal language and self-reflection practice3 -  First professional experience in psychotherapy.4 - Bringing her expertise to trauma and disaster work5 - How Paula’s musical background informed her approach to group workLinksPaula KligerPaula’s BookPsych AssetsEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

Finding meaning and purpose is an integral part of the human experience, which is why, in psychotherapy, in religion, and in many other areas of our lives, we look for guidance. This universal need for contemplation can be thought of as spirituality. Yet, in the field of psychoanalysis, spiritual thinking is often overlooked, as it departs from traditional psychoanalytic theories. Today’s guest argues otherwise.Amelio D’Onofrio has over 35 years of clinical psychoanalytic experience and his professional journey was shaped by faith and a desire for deeper understanding. From his immigration to the United States to pursuing his studies in Psychology, he discovered that a spiritual perspective could answer his more reflective questions about the self.On this episode of The Art of Listening, Amelio delves into the integral connection between spirituality and psychoanalysis. He reflects on his own experiences with pain and suffering and describes how faith set the groundwork that allowed him to ‘emerge from the darkness’. Amelio also shares his new practices and means of spiritual discovery, by introducing his Gubbio Seminars. As the host of this retreat in Gubbio, Italy, Amelio provides psychotherapists and analysts with the opportunity to discuss pressing topics in the field. Drawing on the theme of this year's seminar, he highlights the epic story of Dante's Divine Comedy, guiding us through the poem and its connection to the self-analytic spiritual process of trauma, grief, and forgiveness.Join us as we learn from Amelio how spirituality can enhance our understanding of the human experience, offering tools for personal growth, healing, and self-discovery.Chapters1 - Amelio’s cultural upbringing and his first encounters with suffering (7:50)2 - Growing up with religion and Amelio’s relationship with faith (13:32)3 - Psychoanalysis's relationship with spirituality (16:01)4 - Ego-rational listening and generative listening (20:12)5 - Amelio’s seminars and this year's theme: Dante’s Divine Comedy (22:52)6 - The spiritual cycle of trauma, guilt, and forgiveness (28:15)LinksAmelio D’OnofrioGubbio SeminarsEileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’ 

From the first beat of our hearts to our final moments of connection, love weaves its way through every aspect of our lives, guiding and enriching us. This life force goes beyond our conventional understanding of romance. Love is also the bonds we share with our friends, the support and care we receive from our families, and the self-love and compassion we cultivate within ourselves.As natural as it can be, love is complex. Developing our capacity to both give and receive it is an achievement in its own right; and it’s another challenge to sustain meaningful relationships. Most often, these questions are the very reason we come to therapy.Enrico Gnaulati knows this to be true. As a highly experienced clinical psychologist and author with over three decades of expertise working with children, adults, and couples, he has studied the balance of patience, understanding, and compromise required to maintain deep connections.On this episode of The Art of Listening, Enrico uncovers the common thread that unifies successful and enduring relationships: the art of deep listening. Drawing inspiration from his own marital experiences and dedicated work with couples, Enrico imparts the wisdom of his latest book, ‘Flourishing Love: A Secular Guide to Lasting Intimate Relationships’. He explores how the pillars of listening, attention, and communication form intimate and lasting connection. He also shares his latest interests in therapeutic practice; his enduring labour of love.  Together, we delve into the fundamental questions of what healthy love truly looks like, and the profound growth that comes from embracing vulnerability.Chapters1 - Enrico's upbringing and trajectory to psychotherapy, from children’s to couples' work (4:24)2 - The intricate and complex dynamic therapists face within couples therapy (11:30)3 - The power of "virtues", and essential qualities to long-lasting, successful relationships (18:04)4 - The value of attention in relationships, and how to be a deep listener (25:48)5 - Enrico’s view on the importance of relationships and human connection (29:23)LinksEnrico GnaulatiEnrico’s Book ‘Flourishing Love: A Secular Guide to Lasting Intimate Relationships’Enrico’s Book ‘Saving Talk Therapy’Eileen DunnMore from ‘The Art of Listening’