Ep 326 | Working in the Intersection of Ceramics Sound and History: Taiwanese American Maker Eugenie Chao

In July of 2024, we brought talking Taiwan to the 53rd annual Taiwanese American Conference, east Coast at Westchester University, where I had the pleasure and honor of interviewing Taiwan's, former vice President, Dr. Chen Chen (陳建仁). We talked about how Dr. Chen was trained to be an epidemiologist and was initially reluctant to go into politics, but then fate intervened and changed his mind when SARS hit Taiwan in 2003, and his experience handling the SARS outbreak as Taiwan's Minister of Health played an important role preparing him to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic as Taiwan's Vice President.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/dr-chen-chien-jen-former-vp-of-taiwan-reflects-upon-his-life-in-politics-and-as-a-public-servant/   I asked Dr. Chen why it's important for Taiwan to be a member of the WHO World Health Organization and about the challenges he's faced as the Vice President and Premier of Taiwan. how he overcame them and why he decided not to run as Vice President with Tsai Ing-wen for a second term.   And finally, for some context, at the time of the interview, the Bluebird movement had emerged in Taiwan a month and a half earlier. I touched upon this with Dr. Chen briefly at the end of the interview.    At the time, more than a hundred thousand people in total had taken to the streets of Taiwan in a series of massive protests. It was a very public objection to controversial bills passed by Taiwan's opposition controlled Legislative Yuan. After interviewing Dr. Chen, I was left thinking if only the world had more politicians like him with a public service mindset, the world would be a better place.   This episode is sponsored in part by the Taiwanese American Council of Greater New York.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/dr-chen-chien-jen-former-vp-of-taiwan-reflects-upon-his-life-in-politics-and-as-a-public-servant/

In this episode of Talking Taiwan we sat down to speak with Eugenie Chao who describes herself as Taiwanese American maker, educator, and musician who works in the intersection of ceramics, sound, and history. Her exhibit at the Taiwanese American Arts Council House 17 on Governors Island aptly named Listening Vessels, features ceramic objects turned musical instruments created by Chao and is on display until September 7th.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/working-in-the-intersection-of-ceramics-sound-and-history-taiwanese-american-maker-eugenie-chao-ep-326/   Here’s a little preview of what we talked about in this podcast episode: What came first for Eugenie music or working with clay? What made her combine ceramics with music? Where did that idea come from? How did she get interested or start working with clay? Eugenie’s musical training and what instruments she plays? What was her early artwork like? How her artwork has evolved over time? What does it mean to work at the intersection of ceramics, sound, and history? What is her creative process is like? How sound affects her artwork?  How she decides the size of the objects she creates? The challenges involved with making large scale pieces vs pieces that can be made by hand How does the size of an object affects the sound it makes The ceramic instruments from ancient cultures that inspire her, how she discovered them and what was their purpose What inspires you? Where do you get your inspiration? Eugenie’s connection to Taiwan How Eugenie considers herself a maker and not an artist What can we expect to see and experience from Eugenie’s Listening Vessels exhibit at the TAAC house on Governors Island The most ambitious or challenging piece of work that Eugenie has made How Eugenie deals with a creative block Eugenie’s future projects can we expect to see from you?   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/working-in-the-intersection-of-ceramics-sound-and-history-taiwanese-american-maker-eugenie-chao-ep-326/

When we decided to travel back to Taiwan to cover the vote to recall 24 KMT legislators on July 26th we had no idea how things would turn out. The Great Recall (or da ba mian) as it came to be known in Taiwan, was notable not just because it led to a record number of 31 KMT legislators in total being put up for a recall vote. What was most impressive about is that it was a nationwide effort that started at a grassroots level by everyday people.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/3-perspectives-in-taiwan-why-the-great-recall-failed-ep-325/   It’s been incredible to watch everything leading up to the Great Recall. Going back to last May in 2024 during what came to be known as the Bluebird Movement when tens of thousands of people and upwards of 100,000 took to the streets of Taiwan in a series of protests against controversial bills proposed in the legislative yuan. What happened during the Bluebird Movement protests is said to be what in part galvanized citizens to organize the recall campaigns.   I can’t deny that our hopes were high for the results of the July 26th recall vote and after we learned that none of the KMT legislators were successfully recalled, we did our best during the remaining days of our time in Taiwan to try to make sense of the results by talking to a number of our friends and peers.   What you’ll hear in this episode are some sound bites from conversations we had on July 30th with Rath Wang, Safe Spaces Senior Policy Fellow and Dennis Chen, Chairman of Wikimedia Taiwan. They shared their observations and thoughts on why the recalls failed, the recall campaigners and what the results of the recall vote could mean for President Lai.   Later that day I also spoke with Morrison Lee a Taiwanese businessman who went to China on what was supposed to be a 48-hour trip and ended up getting detained and stuck there for nearly 4 years. Morrison talked about his personal involvement in the recall effort also shared his thoughts on why the recall votes failed.   As mentioned, recall campaign groups succeeded in putting up a total of 31 KMT legislators for a recall vote. Another 7 legislators will be up for a recall vote on August 23rd.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/3-perspectives-in-taiwan-why-the-great-recall-failed-ep-325/

As part of our great recall coverage in Taiwan, on July 25th the day before the vote to recall 24 Kuomintang (KMT) legislators, we sat down to interview A-Mei the spokesperson for the Shān chú wēi hài (山除薇害) recall group. We talked about why she got involved in the recall effort, how she got doxed by the Kuomintang (KMT) and how the recall effort was supported by overseas Taiwanese in over 38 cities from over 20 different countries.  We previously interviewed three recall campaigners from this group- Carol, Eric and Acho in episode 316. We were also with A-Mei and the recall group on the day of the recall vote July 26th to watch the results of the recall vote.   Special thanks to Mei-Ling Lin for her translation assistance.   Related Links:  

This is a part of our continued coverage of Taiwan’s Great Recall. On July 26th, the people of Taiwan voted on whether or not to recall 24 Kuomintang KMT legislators from all across the island. None of the 24 KMT legislators were recalled. This was a blow to the Democratic Progressive Party that could have benefited from a rebalancing of the legislative yuan since it only has 51 of the 113 seats in the legislative yuan or congress.   Among the concerns that motivated these civil society recall groups to take action were the unchecked visits of KMT legislators with high level officials in China. In April of 2024 KMT caucus convener Fu Kun-chi led a delegation of 17 KMT legislators to China where they met with the head of China’s United Front. When asked the delegation has not been transparent about what was discussed in the meetings with Chinese officials.   Two days after the recall vote, on July 28th , I sat down with Jiho Chang, Keelung City Councilor who shared how he faced a retaliatory recall by the KMT. He discussed his thoughts on the outcome of the July 26th recall vote and what this means for the DPP.   On August 23 another 7 KMT legislators will be put up for a recall vote.   Related Links:  

On July 27th the day after Taiwan’s island wide historic recall vote of 24 Chinese Nationalist Kuomintang (KMT) legislators, I sat down with Linda Gail Arrigo, Ai Linda (艾琳達) to reflect on the results of the recall vote, and the impact of the civic mobilization behind the recall effort. Related Links:

On July 26th the day of the historic vote to recall 24 Kuomintang (KMT) legislators we were with the Shān chú wēi hài (山除薇害) recall group in Taipei at Rongxing Garden (榮星花園) Rongxing garden, which is more like a park, for a sort of watch party with about a hundred volunteer recall campaigners. The recall vote results were being televised live on a series of oversized screens that had been set up in the park.   When we finally learned the results of the recall vote It was a shock. 0 of 24 legislators had been recalled. What a sad, disappointing day. I could see it in the faces of the recall volunteers and at the same time it was touching to see how they consoled each other as some could help but burst into tears. The leaders of the recall group asked everyone to join hands and to form a circle in a sign of solidarity and encouragement Carol and Eric shared their initial thoughts with us.   Related Links:

On our first day in Taiwan July 25th we went into the streets of Taipei where recall campaigners from the the Shān chú wēi hài (山除薇害) recall group were doing a last minute push asking people to get out and vote for the recall of 24 KMT legislators on July 26th.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/first-day-in-taipei-day-before-the-great-recall-ep-320/   We previously interviewed 3 recall campaigners from this group- Carol, Eric and Acho in episode 316. Eric explaining the meaning behind the recall group’s name.   Later that day we sat down to interview A-Mei the recall group’s spokesperson who was doxed by the Kuomintang.   We will be releasing our full interview with A-Mei at a later date so stay tuned for that.   We ended the night at a recall campaign rally so spirited that you’d never guess that we were all standing in the pouring rain getting soaked.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/first-day-in-taipei-day-before-the-great-recall-ep-320/

Summer is upon us and I’m sure that a lot of our listeners especially those in New York will be happy to know that Taiwanese Waves will be returning to Central Park’s Summer Stage on August 3 at the Rumsey Playfield. Doors open at 5:00pm   Since 2016 Taiwanese Waves has introduced Taiwanese music to audiences at Central Park’s Summer Stage. If you’re not familiar with Taiwanese Waves you’re in for a treat. In this episode I sat down with Mia, the main organizer of Taiwanese Waves and we are about to walk through and give you a taste of all of the acts that have performed at Summer Stage in the past nine years. You’ll also get to hear a preview of what to expect at this year’s concert.   Related Links:  

In late June, we met up with YouTuber Bā Jiǒng (八炯) when he was in New York. If you’re not familiar with Bā Jiǒng you might want to check out 2 of his most popular videos which expose China’s United Front’s tactics to target the Taiwanese and to recruit Taiwanese influencers to attack and spread disinformation about Taiwan. Then you’ll know why he’s had death threats.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/meet-taiwanese-youtuber-ba-jiong-%e5%85%ab%e7%82%af/   Bā Jiǒng is among those spearheading the recall of Fu Kun-chi, the KMT legislator known as “The King of Hualien.” Fu Kun-chi is 1 of 24 Kuomintang KMT legislators who will be up for the mass recall vote in Taiwan on July 26th. To get up to speed on the Great Recall Effort that’s been happening in Taiwan checkout our past 2 episodes 316 and 317.    Talking Taiwan is getting ready to head back to Taiwan to cover this historic mass recall vote of 24 KMT legislators, in fact we might already be there by the time you hear this episode. We look forward to having Bā Jiǒng on Talking Taiwan to talk about the recall efforts in Hualien and his videos exposing how the United Front works with Taiwanese influencers   Special thanks to Winston Liao for connecting us with Bā Jiǒng.   Related Links: https://talkingtaiwan.com/meet-taiwanese-youtuber-ba-jiong-%e5%85%ab%e7%82%af/