Spinning real life into an abstract song with Avril Jensen

Canadian pop singer-songwriter Olivia Penalva joined us to talk about collaboration, abstract lyrics, and visualizing her music. Download the lyrics to follow along. We talked about: Our songwriting challenge for 2026 to write a traditional country song Things that make for a good collaboration experience; even working remotely Taking personal experiences and finding a metaphor and images to express them Finding visual images for cover art or music videos in line with the songwriting How Olivia refers to previous songs she’s written to inspire her current song Writing, or not writing, declarative choruses About Olivia Penalva Olivia Penalva is a Canadian pop singer-songwriter known for her ethereal vocals, emotionally rich melodies, and introspective storytelling.… Read the rest

Dana and Harry from Secondhand Dreamcar joined us to talk about writing their blues / soul song The Meaning. Download the lyrics to follow along. We talked about: Our songwriting challenge for 2026 to write a traditional country song How the band collaborates on songwriting and instrumental arrangements Dana tends to bring piano-based songs to the band, but not acoustic guitar The act of ditching songs or ideas that are not working When and how do you know when a song or idea is good?… Read the rest

We chatted with Montreal-based artist Avril Jensen about writing an abstract song from personal experience. Download the lyrics to Dog (everybody learns) to follow along. We talked about: Songwriting Challenge 2026: Write a Traditional Country Song Writing musically interesting melodies that are still catchy Writing the lyrics based on personal experience with actual dogs, but maybe it’s also a metaphor for a toxic relationship 80s French Canadian band The Box Does music theory get in your way of keeping things simple?… Read the rest

Mike and Barbara Borok of New Middle Class joined us to talk about writing a pop song with a super crazy bridge. Download the lyrics to Television Sky to follow along. We talked about: How Angine de Poitrine use Microtonality Our songwriting challenge to write a traditional country song How the bridge can be the emotional high point of your song How a song takes on a life of its own as you’re writing it Working a song until it’s better than “good enough” Writing for a different singing voice than your own About New Middle Class Mike Borok is a singer-songwriter from New York’s Hudson Valley.… Read the rest

Toronto artist Robert Ball joined us to talk about writing a smooth soul-drenched song with a theatrical musical in mind. Download the lyrics to I Want a Man to follow along. We talked about: Neel’s engagement with Suno from the Toronto Library’s Innovator in Residence series.… Read the rest

Our songwriting challenge for 2026 is to write a traditional country song. To help us launch this challenge, we were joined by singer-songwriter and music educator Blair Packham. Thanks Blair! We talked about: Phil has an issue with Everybody Knows by Leonard Cohen, and The Famous Blue Raincoat album Why mathematics and literature have more in common than you may think | Ideas | On Demand | CBC Listen Challenging the Tyranny of 440 hz Typical characteristics of a traditional country song: Simple “campfire” chords Stories about the past or regret (unlike pop songs, which are primarily concerned with “now”) Lyrics are the most important thing A story with a specific time and place A strong, central idea There’s no guessing as to what the song is “really about” They don’t usually have a bridge I Can’t Help it if I’m Still in Love With You by Hank Williams – download the lyrics to follow along a verse-refrain structure how country was considered “old-timey” in 1951 when this song came out simple, relatable story and a 3-chord song Mama Tried by Merle Haggard – download the lyrics to follow along Merle Haggard was considered an “outlaw” in the 1960s Nashville establishment How this sounds more modern than Hank Williams A more detailed story in a 4-chord song It’s not necessarily autobiographical Stay tuned to the podcast and our dedicated webpage for this challenge to get the date for submitting YOUR traditional country song to the challenge and have it featured on the podcast.… Read the rest

Maclayne joined us to talk about writing songs from concepts and her song There You Are. Download the lyrics and chords to follow along. We were treated to a rare live performance by Maclayne! We talked about: Writing lyrics or music first The value of deadlines to get songs done Revisiting a hook a year later to complete the song with producer James Bryan Ecstatic Dancing in Guatemala Writing with specific details but still open to listeners seeing themselves in the lyric Growing as an independent artist in the face of commercial music About Maclayne Maclayne is a Calgary and Toronto-based independent singer-songwriter whose music is as hooky and quirky as it is sincere and moving.… Read the rest

Grammy-winning They Might Be Giants’ John Flansburgh joined us to talk about songwriting from listening and intuitions. Download the lyrics to Outside Brain to follow along. We talked about: Modal writing when you don’t know what modal writing is, and our Songwriting Challenge 2023: Write in a Mode Tension between conventions and breaking the rules Songwriting as a very plastic medium where the variations are endless Using terms like “gold dust” and “kicker” to identify elements or sections of songs  How learning the I-vi-IV-V became the key to start writing songs  How John and John typically bring completed songs to each other, but work at editing for a long time until it’s right Starting songwriting by failing at cover songs  John says, rhyming is overrated and bridges are overrated About They Might be Giants They Might Be Giants treat the entire history of popular music as a trampoline rather than a rulebook.… Read the rest

Hamilton-based singer-songwriter Garrett Lajoie talked about taking on February Album Writing Month for the last ten years and how that experience has shaped his approach to songwriting. Download the lyrics to Window Shopping to follow along. We talked about: Collaborating on a love song with Alex Whorms An Instrument For Every Child | Hamilton Music Collective This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession: Levitin, Daniel J.:… Read the rest

Delyn Grey returned to the show for the third time to talk about her new release My Mind is a Riot and her upcoming album Delynquent. Download the lyrics to follow along. We talked about: How AI Will Fail Like The Music Industry Delyn’s previous appearance on the show How working in a minor key and having crunchy guitars is dark enough Sometimes stepping away from a song and getting perspective can be better Make sure the song wins no matter what or how finished you think you might be Engaging in songwriting challenges to grow your creativity – and our Songwriting Challenge 2023: Write in a Mode About Delyn Grey My Head is a Riot was released in February and is the first song off of Delyn’s twelve-song 2026 project, “Delynquent,” written, recorded, and produced in her garage with her dad.… Read the rest