SPOS #992 – Dave Whorton On Building Companies That Last

Welcome to episode #992 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Dave Whorton has spent his career building, backing and reimagining companies, but not in the way Silicon Valley usually does it. As founder of Tugboat Institute and author of Another Way – Building Companies That Last…and Last…and Last (which he co-authored with Bo Burlingham), Dave champions a different breed of business: evergreen companies. These are organizations designed to last generations, rooted in purpose, resilience and profitability… not just hypergrowth and exit strategies. Before this pivot, Dave had a front-row seat to the “get-big-fast” movement as an associate partner at Kleiner Perkins, and he co-founded ventures like drugstore.com and Good Technology. But the treadmill of fast capital and faster exits didn’t resonate. He stepped off and sought a more meaningful model, eventually codifying it into the 7 Ps of Evergreen: purpose, perseverance, people first, and more. In this conversation, Dave explores the cultural and economic consequences of chasing unicorns, and what’s gained when we celebrate the quiet power of companies in the middle. Those not seeking fame or fortune but focused on sustainable impact. Dave talks about the role of introverted leadership, long-term planning, and what capitalism can look like when it’s driven by values rather than valuations. If you’ve ever felt that the venture-backed startup narrative doesn’t tell the whole story or if you’re building something you want to last, this conversation might just give you language and hope. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:00:43. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Dave Whorton. Another Way – Building Companies That Last…and Last…and Last. Tugboat Institute. Follow Dave on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Evergreen Companies. (02:47) - The Shift in Capitalism. (05:52) - The Spectrum of Capitalism. (08:55) - The Role of Venture Capital. (11:50) - Defining Scale in Business. (15:08) - The Importance of SMBs. (17:53) - The Seven Ps of Evergreen Companies. (21:13) - Revisiting Venture Capital Models. (23:54) - Celebrating Success and the Power Law. (31:40) - Reflecting on the Journey: The Value of the Middle. (33:14) - The Economic Landscape: Building Evergreen Companies. (34:38) - Historical Perspective: Resilience in Business. (38:15) - The Role of Evergreen Companies in a Changing Economy. (40:19) - Compensation and Value Distribution in Evergreen Companies. (42:29) - Resisting the Unicorn Mentality: A Different Path. (47:31) - From Manifesto to Strategy: The Evergreen Approach. (51:49) - The Culture of Evergreen Leadership: Introversion and Stewardship.

Welcome to episode #991 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Bob Goodson is President and Founder of Quid, an AI-driven company whose models are used by a third of the Fortune 50. Before launching Quid, he was the first employee at Yelp, where he witnessed (and helped shape) the birth of the like button. Bob’s academic roots in language theory (Oxford) and his deep curiosity about patterns of innovation led him to co-author Like - The Button That Changed The World, an illuminating book about how a simple social media feature rewired global communication and commerce. In this episode, we dig into the origin story of the like button and its unintended consequences - from how it shaped the social graph into a tool of surveillance capitalism, to the unintended shifts it created in digital identity and culture. Bob shares insights into the “arms race” of social engagement, the design intentions behind digital signals, and the eerie power of such tiny UX decisions to shape massive behavioral patterns. We also discuss TikTok’s model of engagement, the overlooked nuance of the thumbs down, and the responsibility of technologists in shaping society. For marketers, platform builders and cultural observers, this conversation is a deep dive into how the smallest code fragments can shape our biggest societal shifts. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 52:16. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Bob Goodson. Like - The Button That Changed The World. Co-Author Martin Reeves. Quid. Follow Bob on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Birth of the Like Button. (04:02) - Evolution of User Interaction. (10:05) - The Emergence of Data Graphs. (14:59) - The Role of Thumbs Up and Down. (20:13) - Cultural Impact and Manipulation of Engagement. (27:03) - The Evolution of Social Media Strategies. (30:12) - The Arms Race for Attention in Social Media. (36:34) - The Impact of the Like Button on Identity. (41:43) - Regulation and the Unintended Consequences of Technology. (50:10) - Long-Term Perspectives on Technology and Society.

Welcome to episode #990 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Lori Rosenkopf is the Simon and Midge Palley Professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, and currently serves as the Vice Dean of Entrepreneurship. In that role, she oversees Wharton’s Venture Lab and its West Coast campus, while continuing her long-standing research into social networks, innovation and how knowledge flows between people, companies and technologies. Before her academic career, Lori worked as a systems engineer for Kodakand AT&T Bell Labs, giving her a rare blend of practical and academic insight into how organizations innovate. She’s also the author of the new book Unstoppable Entrepreneurs – 7 Paths for Unleashing Successful Startups and Creating Value through Innovation. It’s a smart, grounded book that expands the definition of entrepreneurship, shifting it away from the mythology of Silicon Valley unicorns toward a more inclusive, pragmatic framework of value creation across industries and backgrounds. Lori’s experience guiding more than 20,000 students has helped her see entrepreneurship not as a single path, but a set of diverse approaches, whether you're building something disruptive, innovating inside a larger company, or launching a mission-driven startup. In this episode, we explore the evolving nature of entrepreneurial identity and why many of the old narratives no longer fit. We talk about the role of failure, the rise of creators as entrepreneurs and the impact of AI on idea generation. Lori also shares her thoughts on market fit, how to foster innovation in organizations, and why community and mentorship are more critical than ever. There’s a realism here that’s refreshing: entrepreneurship isn’t always glamorous, but it can be deeply meaningful. We also dive into the challenges of corporate disruption, the future of work and the tension between profit and social impact. If you’ve ever felt like you don’t fit the stereotype of an entrepreneur, this conversation might help you realize that the stereotype is the problem… not you. It’s a powerful reflection on how we build, why we build and who gets to build. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 56:28. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Lori Rosenkopf. Unstoppable Entrepreneurs – 7 Paths for Unleashing Successful Startups and Creating Value through Innovation. Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Venture Lab. Follow Lori on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Entrepreneurship and Innovation. (03:01) - The Ecosystem of Entrepreneurship Education. (06:02) - Dispelling Myths: The Reality of Entrepreneurs. (08:57) - Defining Entrepreneurship: Value Creation Through Innovation. (12:04) - The Shopify Effect: Accessibility and Challenges in Entrepreneurship. (15:01) - Surviving the Grind: The Reality of Entrepreneurial Life. (18:03) - Market Fit: The Holy Grail of Entrepreneurship. (20:50) - The Rise of the Content Creator as Entrepreneur. (31:18) - The Cult of Personality in Entrepreneurship. (32:40) - The Role of Age in Entrepreneurship. (34:36) - AI and Idea Generation for Entrepreneurs. (39:21) - The Disruption of Traditional Corporate Roles. (41:42) - Value Creation Beyond Profitability. (44:31) - Changing Work Culture and Entrepreneurial Mindset. (46:34) - Innovations in Business Models and Technology. (48:47) - The Importance of Community in Entrepreneurship. (51:52) - Trends in Entrepreneurship and Future Outlook. (54:34) - Understanding Failure in Entrepreneurship. (55:56) - Wealth Inequality and the Role of Entrepreneurs.

Welcome to episode #989 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Andrew Brodsky is reshaping how we think about work, not by focusing on tasks or tools, but by interrogating how we communicate. A management professor at the McCombs School of Business at The University of Texas at Austin, Andrew specializes in organizational behavior, with a sharp focus on the friction (and possibility) that emerges when human behavior meets digital platforms. With a PhD from Harvard Business School and a BS from Wharton, his work explores everything from how to show emotional authenticity on Zoom to how organizations can build culture without a physical office. In his new book, Ping - The Secrets of Successful Virtual Communication, Andrew offers a science-backed, research-driven guide to the biggest question facing modern professionals: when should something be an email, a Slack, a video call or nothing at all? He pushes past the cliché of "this meeting could’ve been an email” to examine what kinds of communication actually drive clarity, trust and effectiveness. In this episode, we explore the messy reality of hybrid work, the erosion of “third places” where colleagues used to casually connect, and the deeper organizational consequences of fragmented communication norms. Andrew explains why remote work isn’t the root of all workplace disconnection (return-to-office mandates won’t fix your culture) and how better communication (intentional, strategic, well-matched to the message) is the real differentiator for teams. We also talk about the long-term implications of this shift: from how loneliness is showing up in employee engagement surveys to how new communication technologies might shape our future work rhythms. Whether you're leading a team, working across time zones, or just trying to get a response to your last message, this conversation offers practical takeaways grounded in deep expertise and real-world research. Andrew’s insights cut through the noise and help us see virtual communication not as a limitation, but as an opportunity to be more human, more clear and more connected… no matter the channel. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:03:22. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Andrew Brodsky. Ping - The Secrets of Successful Virtual Communication. Ping Group. Follow Andrew on X. Follow Andrew on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Evolution of Virtual Communication. (02:50) - Understanding Virtual Communication. (05:48) - The Challenges of Virtual Interactions. (09:03) - The Role of Communication in Performance. (12:04) - Optimizing Remote Work Culture. (15:02) - The Future of Meetings and Collaboration. (17:49) - Teaching Communication Skills. (20:59) - Investing in Effective Communication. (24:05) - The Impact of Remote Work on Relationships. (27:04) - The Future of Work and Economic Implications. (33:28) - The Shift in Workplace Dynamics. (39:15) - The Evolution of Social Spaces. (41:53) - The Role of Technology in Communication. (49:30) - Navigating Virtual Interactions. (01:01:11) - Lessons Learned from Covid 19.

Welcome to episode #988 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Julian Treasure believes the world needs to learn how to listen again. You may know him from his TED Talk, How To Speak So That People Want To Listen - one of the most viewed of all time (over 65 million views). But long before going viral, Julian was helping companies and individuals rethink their relationship with sound - as founder of The Sound Agency, author of How To Be Heard and Sound Business, and now with his new book Sound Affects - How Sound Shapes Our Lives, Our Wellbeing and Our Planet. Julian’s work spans science, music, psychology, and design - from biophilic soundscapes in office buildings to sonic branding for global brands. In this conversation, he breaks down why we confuse hearing with listening, how silence is often the most powerful part of any conversation, and why we need to teach listening the same way we teach reading and writing. We also explore the risks of AI-generated music, the future of compassion in polarized discourse, and why democracy itself might hinge on our ability to listen consciously. Julian also recently launched The Listening Society (a community for anyone interested in the power listening and sound). Julian’s life is a testament to the power of sound... and why we must all become better listeners. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 51:06. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Julian Treasure. Sound Affects - How Sound Shapes Our Lives, Our Wellbeing and Our Planet. The Listening Society. How To Be Heard. Sound Business. Julian’s TED Talk. Follow Julian on X. Follow Julian on Instagram. Follow Julian on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Sound and Listening. (02:49) - The Importance of Listening in Education. (06:10) - Hearing vs. Listening: Understanding the Distinction. (09:08) - The Role of Silence in Communication. (12:11) - Cultural Influences on Listening. (15:12) - Active Listening vs. Attentive Listening. (17:56) - The Impact of Technology on Listening. (20:52) - Conscious Listening and Its Benefits. (24:47) - The State of Discourse and Listening. (30:29) - Practical Steps to Improve Listening. (34:38) - The Science of Sound and Its Impact. (39:04) - The Unifying Power of Music. (46:12) - AI and the Future of Sound. (50:14) - Starting from Where You Are.

Welcome to episode #987 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Cindy Anderson is on a mission to bring clarity, standards, and serious business impact to thought leadership. As Global Lead for Engagement & Eminence at IBM’s Institute for Business Value and the Global Thought Leadership Institute, Cindy has spent years leading one of the most ambitious research efforts ever undertaken on this topic. The result is her new book, The ROI of Thought Leadership – Calculating the Value That Sets Organizations Apart, co-authored with Anthony Marshall. In it, Cindy reveals what more than 4000 C-level executives told IBM about how they consume, value, and act on thought leadership, and why some content drives sales while most gets ignored. In this conversation, we unpack what truly makes someone a thought leader, why AI is simultaneously diluting and accelerating the field, and what it means to play at the top of the marketing funnel with 156% ROI on the line. This isn’t about personal branding... it’s about strategic business outcomes. We also explore how trust, frequency and format shape impact, and what companies must do to avoid audience fatigue. For anyone who creates, funds or is trying to measure thought leadership this one’s essential listening. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 55:18. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Cindy Anderson. The ROI of Thought Leadership – Calculating the Value That Sets Organizations Apart. Institute for Business Value. Global Thought Leadership Institute. Anthony Marshall. Follow Cindy on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Thought Leadership and Its Importance. (03:00) - Challenges in Measuring Thought Leadership ROI. (05:52) - Defining Thought Leadership: Evidence-Based Intelligence. (09:03) - The Role of Consultants in Thought Leadership. (11:55) - The Impact of Generative AI on Thought Leadership. (15:04) - Commercialization and Standards in Thought Leadership. (18:00) - The Future of Thought Leadership in a Noisy World. (29:37) - The Eighth P of Marketing: Thought Leadership. (32:27) - ROI of Thought Leadership: A Game Changer. (36:08) - The Role of Presentation in Thought Leadership. (39:43) - Engagement and Sharing: The Dynamics of Thought Leadership. (48:52) - Trust in Thought Leadership: Building Credibility. (51:04) - The Importance of Frequency and Velocity in Thought Leadership. (55:14) - Establishing Trust and Credibility in a Distrustful World.

Welcome to episode #986 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Pico Iyer lives between worlds - geographically, culturally, and spiritually - and that makes him one of the most attuned chroniclers of what it means to be alive right now. Best known for travel writing that often transcends borders and genres (The Global Soul, Video Night in Kathmandu, The Lady and the Monk), Pico is also a deeply reflective thinker about silence, stillness, and solitude. In his latest book, Aflame - Learning from Silence, he returns to a Benedictine monastery in Big Sur - a place he has visited over 100 times - to explore what it means to pause in a world that won’t stop moving. This isn’t a religious retreat or a spiritual how-to. It’s a meditation on fire: what we lose, what remains, and how burning down can be its own kind of beginning. In this conversation, we talk about the power of silence in an always-on culture, why the monastic life holds so much wisdom even for secular people, and how loss (of home, of place, of identity) can be a clarifier rather than just a crisis. There are moments of levity (Leonard Cohen, a fellow monastery-goer, makes an appearance), but mostly what Pico offers is a quiet urgency: that we’re missing too much while looking at everything. His reflections on mindfulness, technology, climate anxiety, writing, and what it means to find meaning when everything feels untethered will resonate with anyone seeking more presence in a distracted world (also check out his other books: The Art of Stillness and The Half Known Life). Pico splits his time between Japan and California, writes with grace and generosity for The New York Times, Time, The New York Review of Books and others. If you’re struggling to make sense of modern life, this one offers something deeper than answers - it offers permission to pause. He is one of my mentors and someone I constantly think about. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 1:05:46. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Pico Iyer. Aflame - Learning from Silence. The Half Known Life. The Art of Stillness. Video Night in Kathmandu. The Global Soul. The Lady and the Monk. Chapters: (00:00) - The Impact of Wildfires and Personal Loss. (02:55) - Nature's Call: The Urgency of Change. (06:07) - Fire as a Metaphor for Renewal. (08:47) - Mindfulness in a Fast-Paced World. (12:04) - The Essence of Stillness and Silence. (14:57) - The Role of Technology in Connection and Disconnection. (17:58) - Finding Serendipity in Everyday Life. (21:05) - The Monastic Experience: A Journey Within. (23:58) - Exploring the Concept of Cells in Monasteries. (27:00) - The Intersection of Religion and Personal Growth. (35:25) - The Essence of a Holy Day. (36:36) - Life in the Monastery: A Unique Perspective. (39:00) - Leonard Cohen: The Monk and the Artist. (46:45) - Solitude vs. Community: The Monastic Life. (48:50) - The Art of Writing: Silence and Reflection. (55:26) - Facing Silence: The Challenge of Solitude. (57:35) - Creating in Chaos: The Need for Retreat. (01:04:28) - Lessons from Japan: A Different Perspective.

Welcome to episode #985 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Kathleen deLaski is one of the most important voices rethinking the purpose, structure, and future of higher education. As founder of the Education Design Lab and board chair of Credential Engine, she’s spent the last decade helping over 1,200 colleges, organizations, and regional economies reimagine learning pathways for next-generation students - particularly the new majority learners often left behind by traditional institutions. Her new book, Who Needs College Anymore? is a provocative and optimistic look at how postsecondary education must evolve, drawing on over a decade of field research, human-centered design, and more than 150 interviews with educators, employers, learners, and policymakers. In this conversation, we unpack the diploma divide, the rising cost of education, the friction between what college teaches and what employers expect, and how AI is rewriting the script for entry-level jobs and professional training. Kathleen - whose career spans time as a journalist at ABC News, a Pentagon spokesperson, working at AOL in the early days of the Internet, and a philanthropic force behind education reform - brings not just perspective but practical ideas on how colleges, businesses, and society must adapt. This one challenges what we think college is for, and what meaningful learning might look like in a skills-based future. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 51:11. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Kathleen deLaski. Who Needs College Anymore?. Education Design Lab. Follow Kathleen on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Rise of Human-Centered Design in Education. (02:45) - Challenges in Higher Education and the Need for Innovation. (06:00) - Cultural Shifts and the Value of College. (08:53) - The Diploma Divide and Its Societal Implications. (11:54) - Affordability and Access to Education. (14:47) - The Disconnect Between Degrees and Job Market. (18:06) - The Importance of Experience Over Degrees. (21:13) - Networking and Its Role in Career Success. (29:38) - The Impact of AI on Job Markets. (32:36) - The Future of Entry-Level Jobs. (36:05) - Reevaluating Professional Education. (41:35) - The Value of Trades in Modern Society. (43:06) - Digital Learning and Its Challenges. (47:17) - Generational Perspectives on Work Ethic.

Welcome to episode #984 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Steve Pratt knows how to earn attention - and not in the algorithm-chasing, trend-hopping way most marketers talk about it. As the co-founder of Pacific Content (the first agency dedicated to branded podcasts), Steve helped pioneer a model for long-form brand storytelling that respected the audience as much as it served the client. Before podcasting was a thing brands took seriously, Steve was guiding companies like Slack, Facebook, Shopify, BMW, Adobe, and Charles Schwabinto a new kind of media - one built on trust, consistency, and real creative value. That experience forms the foundation of his new book, Earn It - Unconventional Strategies For Brave Marketers. In this conversation, he unpacks why so many marketers are stuck in short-term thinking, how performance marketing is cannibalizing brand, and what it really takes to build content worth someone’s time. There’s insight here on the difference between being loud and being relevant, on why the future belongs to brave brands with a point of view, and how AI may flood the market with content - but only humans can still make something remarkable. Steve’s career started in TV production, moved through digital innovation at CBC, and has now landed at the intersection of creativity, business strategy, and media design with his newest venture, The Creativity Business. His message is simple: the only brands that win long-term are the ones willing to put in the work, respect the audience, and be consistently great over time. For anyone wrestling with content strategy, podcasting, or how to think like a media company - this one’s a masterclass. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 1:00:53. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Steve Pratt. Earn It - Unconventional Strategies For Brave Marketers. The Creativity Business. Follow Steve on Instagram. Follow Steve on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Journey of Podcasting. (02:58) - Consistency vs. Relevance in Content Creation. (06:05) - The Landscape of Media Companies vs. Individual Creators. (08:58) - Audience Development in the Digital Age. (11:49) - The Nature of Podcasts vs. Video Content. (15:09) - The Evolution of Podcasting and Video Strategies. (17:49) - The Role of Sensationalism in Media. (20:52) - Quality vs. Mediocrity in Content Creation. (33:37) - The Challenge of Earning Success. (34:44) - The Longevity of Podcasting and Audience Engagement. (39:01) - Niche Marketing and Brand Media Companies. (42:59) - The Pressure of Performance Marketing. (50:00) - The Role of AI in Content Creation. (01:03:16) - Red Bull: A Case Study in Media Innovation.

Welcome to episode #983 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Matthew Weinzierl is not just thinking about the future of the economy - he’s thinking about the economy of the final frontier. As a professor at Harvard Business School and a Research Associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research, Matt brings the analytical rigor of economic policy to a space sector that’s shifting from sci-fi to IPO. In our conversation, we unpack the big thesis behind his new book Space To Grow - Unlocking The Final Economic Frontier(co-authored with Mehak Sarang Rousseau), which reframes space as something more than spectacle or science - it’s a place where real economic value is being created right now. This isn’t about day trips to orbit or Mars hotels (not yet). It’s about the role of market forces, national security, broadband access, sustainability, microgravity manufacturing, and the essential debate between centralized control and decentralized innovation. Matt has built a career studying tax policy and the philosophical underpinnings of economic systems, and now he’s applying that lens to a commercial space industry that’s still defining its rules. We talk about SpaceX’s dominance and what it means for competition, the outdated frameworks of international space law, and why economists are uniquely suited to help structure the future of space activity. We also explore the symbolic and practical value of human exploration, and how figures like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos shape the public’s understanding of what's possible (and what might be hype). What makes Matt so compelling is his clarity... he doesn’t get swept up in the cosmic dreams without asking who benefits, who governs, and what kind of economic system we’re building in orbit and beyond. If you’ve been curious about the real forces shaping the space economy - and what it might mean for Earth - this episode is a must-listen. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 58:47. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Matthew Weinzierl. Space To Grow - Unlocking The Final Economic Frontier. Economics Of Space. Mehak Sarang Rousseau. Follow Matt on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Space Economics. (03:05) - The Intersection of Economics and Space. (06:09) - Challenges in the Space Sector. (09:06) - Market Dynamics and Competition in Space. (12:11) - The Role of National Security in Space. (14:48) - The Future of Space Exploration. (18:02) - Arguments For and Against Space Exploration. (29:32) - The Double-Edged Sword of Celebrity in Business. (31:13) - Decentralization: Opportunities and Challenges. (35:26) - Balancing Centralization and Decentralization in Space. (38:32) - The Ethical Implications of Space Exploration. (40:17) - Regulating the New Frontier: Challenges Ahead. (44:54) - The Reality of Mars Missions. (48:53) - Unlocking the Value of Space Resources. (51:37) - The Role of Humans in Space Exploration. (53:46) - Economic Policies and Global Trade Dynamics.