An Ecological History of Modern China, with Stevan Harrell — Part 2

This week on Sinica, Part 2 of the interview with anthropologist Stevan Harrell, professor emeritus at the University of Washington, about his magnum opus, An Ecological History of China. Be sure to listen to Part 1 first, as many important framing concepts are discussed in that episode! 1:44 “– The Four Horsemen of Ecopocalypse” and ecological disasters during the Mao period, and the story of the double-wheel, double-bladed plow11:00 – The effect of the introduction of water systems and fertilizers on agricultural production 21:03 – “The replumbing of China:” The South-North Water Transfer Project and the National Water Network27:32 – Areas of progress: Air pollution and the energy mix 32:48 – Areas lacking appreciable improvement: Soil contamination, water pollution, and flood vulnerability 36:04 – Ecological civilization and breaking the binary between development and environmental protection47:00 – Steve’s cognitive style: A fox of the two cultures 53:23 – nSteve’s views on authoritarian environmentalism 58:46 – The Environmental Kuznets curve 1:05:54 – A preview of Steve’s current book project about the Yangjuan Primary School in Liangshan Recommendations:Steve: Salman Rushdie’s Haroun and the Sea of Stories; Hampton Sides’ The Wide Wide Sea: Imperial Ambition, First Contact and the Fateful Final Voyage of Captain James Cook; and the 2023 film The Taste of Things, starring Juliette Binoche Kaiser: The Cold War: A World History by Odd Arne Westad See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Part 1 of a two-part podcast with Stevan Harrell, Professor Emeritus in Anthropology at the University of Washington. Steve's groundbreaking book An Ecological History of Modern China represents the culmination of a professional lifetime of work in disparate fields. It synthesizes ideas from geography, earth science, biology, anthropology, sociology, political science, and more. It's a book that will make you change the way you think not just about China, but about history more broadly, and about resilience in natural and social systems. In this first part, we focus on some of the core framing concepts of the book and how Steve demarcates China in both space and time. Part 2 is next week!5:01 How Steve thinks about ecological history and resilience theory/ecology in relation to Chinese history 17:09 Social-ecological systems and the systems approach24:46 The importance of etic and emic scale 30:15 How diversity contributes to resilience 36:18 The Malthus-Boserup Ratchet 42:43 The importance of buffers 51:24 The adaptive cycle 55:41 Ecological buffers and the threats they face] in the major regions of China: China Proper, Zomia, and Chinese Central Asia 1:06:28 Steve’s periodization of modern Chinese history from the perspective of ecological history Recommendations at the end of Part 2 next week!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, the highly-regarded writer Peter Hessler joins to talk about his new book, out July 9: Other Rivers: A Chinese Education. Over 20 years after teaching with the Peace Corps in Fuling (the subject of his first book, Rivertown, Pete returns to China to teach at Sichuan University in Chengdu. He writes about the two cohorts of students, with whom he has maintained extensive contacts, to offer fascinating insights into how China has changed across this momentous period with touching, deeply human stories. 3:47 – Why Pete couldn’t teach in Fuling again6:56 – How Pete stayed in touch with his Fuling cohort 9:46 – Pete’s SCUPI [(Sichuan University-Pittsburgh Institute)] cohort 13:51 – Pete’s Fuling cohort 19:35 – Chinese rural values: pragmatism and modesty23:08 – The physical and psychological differences between the Fuling and Chengdu cohorts 29:32 – “Educated acquiescence” in the Chinese education system 35:07 – The Hessler family’s experience with Chengdu Experimental Primary School43:04 – The impending lack of “Country feel,” and Pete’s sense of humor 47:02 – Facing criticism over his reporting during the pandemic  52:13 – Pete’s experience being jǔbào’ed and teaching Orwell’s Animal Farm 59:01 – Pete’s take on the COVID origins debate1:02:10 – Competition and authoritarianism in China, and the phenomenon of Chinese and Chinese American Trump supporters 1:06:57 – Serena’s investigation for Chángshì and why Pete’s contract was not renewed 1:15:28 What’s next for Pete Recommendations:Pete: Burma Sahib by Paul Theroux, a forthcoming novel about George Orwell’s time in Burma as a policeman; Burmese Days by George Orwell Kaiser: the Meta Quest VR headset See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, a conversation that I moderated on May 30th called “Assessing the Impact of US-China Rivalry on Ukraine and Taiwan,” put on by the Ukrainian Platform for Contemporary China. The main organizer was my friend Vita Golod, who is the chair of the Ukrainian Association of Sinologists. The panelists are: Dmytro Burtsev, a Junior Fellow at A. Krymskyi Institute of Oriental Studies, National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine.Da Wei, Director of the Center for International Security and Strategy and Professor at the School of Social Sciences at Tsinghua University. Emilian Kavalski, Professor at the Centre for International Studies and Development at Jagiellonian University in Krakow. I Yuan, Adjunct Research Fellow at the Institute of International Relations, National Chengchi University, Taiwan.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Kaiser is joined by Jonathan Chatwin, author of a new book about Deng Xiaoping's "Southern Tour" of early 1992 — a pivotal event that renewed a commitment to economic reforms after they'd stalled following 1989, and seized the initiative from conservatives in the Chinese leadership. The book is called The Southern Tour: Deng Xiaoping and the Fight for China's Future.2:10 – Why Jonathan focused on the Southern Tour, and the narratives surrounding it in China7:19 – How the events of ’89 influenced Deng’s thinking 11:08 – How the political fates of Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang affected Deng’s planning 14:31 – The reformers’ path to victory from the second half of ’89 to January of ’9220:32 – Deng’s vision of opportunity in the face of communism’s apparent global retreat24:53 – How Deng’s personal experiences shaped his policy decisions 27:07 – The strategic signaling and risky timing of the Southern Tour 34:07 – The influence of the Chinese horoscope, and “The Story of Spring”37:33 – Shenzhen speed 40:57 – What Jonathan learned about Deng Xiaoping 45:00 – Jonathan’s recommendations for learning more about Deng Xiaoping and the post-Mao era 46:18 – Xi Jinping, the “end” [not sure how to phrase] of Deng’s reform and opening era, and the [parallels with the?] Chinese economic situation today RecommendationsJonathan: China’s Hidden Century, edited by Jessica Harrison-Hall and Julia Lovell, produced to accompany the British Museum’s exhibition by that name; and the app Voice Dream, a text-to-speech reader Kaiser: Andrea Wulf’s Magnificent Rebels: The First Romantics and the Invention of the Self, a book about the group of German Romantics gathered in Jena, Germany See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on the Sinica Podcast, Kaiser is joined by old friend Ed Lanfranco, who lived in Beijing from 1988 to 2009. An inveterate packrat, Ed managed to accumulate an incredible trove of documents, maps, photos, and ephemera from his years there and from the decades and even centuries before his arrival. Ed talks about his collection, and invites scholars interested in his material to get in touch!2:46 – Ed’s time in China and saving ephemera 11:47 – Ed’s favorite old Chinese brands 14:41 – Ed’s map collection 19:34 – The Tiananmen incident of 1976, Ed’s collection of unpublished photographs from the Panjiayuan Antique Market, and a leaflet from April 7th, 1976 30:40 – Ed’s patriotic music record collection 33:28 – Ed’s U.S.-China collection 38:00 – The story behind Ed’s U.S.-China panda button from 2002 43:18 – Ed’s Tiananmen ’89 story and collection of leaflets and files 50:56 – The Underground City of Beijing tour 53:50 – Ed’s SARS 2003 epidemic experience and artifactsRecommendations:Ed: Roger Garside’s Coming Alive: China After Mao; Lin Yutang’s works, especially My Country and My People and The Importance of LivingKaiser: The Rochester-based progressive metal trio Haishen’s new album, Awaken the Endless Deep See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, I'm delighted to welcome — my brother! Jay Kuo is a Broadway writer & producer, and the man behind the terrific U.S. politics-focused Substack newsletter The Status Kuo. In a previous life, from 1996 to 2000, he was also really active in Beijing's gay community, just at the time when homosexuality was being decriminalized and was stepping out of the shadows. We talk about how it all took off. Jay also puts on his other hat to talk about how China figures into American politics with the election less than five months away, and about the legal standing of the TikTok divest-or-ban law.4:54 – The gay community in Beijing in the ‘90s, and the Half-and-Half bar in Sanlitun 16:06 – How the gay community in Beijing changed after two major rulings 27:33 – The end of the “golden era” for the gay community in China36:26 – Progress and its drivers and obstacles42:28 – Jay’s “China priors”50:41 – The issue of China in the upcoming U.S. presidential election  57:08 – The TikTok ban bill Recommendations: Jay: The TV series Manhunt (2024), available on Apple TVKaiser: The TV series The Sympathizer (2024), available on HBO; the audiobook of The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen, narrated by François Chau See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, I chat with Sulmaan Wasif Khan, professor of history and international relations at the Fletcher School at Tufts University, about his book The Struggle for Taiwan: A History of America, China, and the Island Caught Between, which comes on May 14.4:28 — The Cairo Agreement6:59 — General George Marshall, George Kennan, and the change in the idea of American trusteeship of Taiwan?17:08 — The debate over the offshore islands of Kinmen and Matsu23:55 — Mao’s evolving interest in Taiwan27:49 — The averted crisis of 196232:06 — Peng Ming-min and the Taiwan independence movement37:14 — What changed in 1971?42:51 — The legacy of Chiang Ching-kuo45:14 — The story of Lee Teng-hui52:37 — The change within the Kuomintang1:00:11 — Why Taiwan has become “sacred” for China1:10:26 — Sulmaan’s own narrative shift1:13:26 — Chen Shui-bian and the threat of independence referendums1:17:53 — The Sunflower Movement1:25:21 — The causal direction of Taiwan’s importance in the U.S.-China relationship1:28:32 — Why the status quo shifted1:30:51 — Drawing parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine1:33:26 — Sulmaan’s sources for his book1:35:38 — Agency versus structure1:39:29 — Feedback (so far) on the new book and what’s next for SulmaanRecommendations:Sulmaan: Emily Wilson’s translation of The Iliad Kaiser: The “My China Priors” series (and other essays), available on the Sinica Substack; Angus Stewart’s essay, “Alien Bless You: A Review of Netflix’s 3 Body Problem” See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, veteran reporter Jane Perlez, who served as bureau chief for the New York Times in Beijing until 2019, joins to discuss her new podcast series Face-Off, which explores different facets of the U.S.-China relationship. We also talk about the state of Western journalism in China in the wake of tit-for-tat expulsions of reporters from the U.S. and China that took place during the Trump administration, and the challenges of covering China well without people on the ground in country.5:16 – How Jane Perlez got into podcasting7:59 – The challenge of understanding Xi Jinping12:44 – The Face-Off podcast and appealing to a general audience19:00 – Face-Off’s interview with Zhao Tong on the nuclear issue; the importance of quality diplomacy; and debating the efficacy of the S&ED 30:48 – The pleasure of meeting Yo-Yo Ma 36:52 – The state of Western journalists in China, and how the situation may eventually play out 48:44 – The difficulty of covering China from the outside 53:52 – What’s next for Jane Perlez and the Face-Off podcastRecommendations:Jane: Judgment at Tokyo: World War II on Trial and the Making of Modern Asia by Gary BassKaiser: The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History by Serhii Plokhy See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week on Sinica, Iza Ding, associate professor of political science at Northwestern University and author of The Performative State: Public Scrutiny and Environmental Governance in China, joins to share her ideas on how American academia has framed and problematized authoritarianism, especially when it comes to China. A deep and subtle thinker, she offers thought-provoking critiques of some of the assumptions that have become nearly axiomatic in political science and other social sciences in their approach to understanding politics in China.3:13 – Iza Ding’s concept of “authoritarian teleology”15:31 – The concept of authoritarian resilience 19:58 – The question of regime legitimacy 24:09 – The question of whether authoritarianism is an ideology 26:24 – The China model? 30:58 – Finding a balance between generalizability and the sui generis, and striving toward cognitive empathy and “Verstehen” 42:04 – The state of area studies and avoiding essentialism 49:32 – Iza Ding’s advice on how to become a better writer Recommendations:Iza: The Wife of Bath: A Biography by Marion Turner — the story of Alison, the Wife of Bath in Geoffrey Chaucer’s The Canterbury Tales Kaiser: the guitarist Kent Nishimura, especially his recordings of “Everybody Wants to Rule the World” by Tears for Fears, “Sir Duke” by Stevie Wonder, “Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic” by The Police, and “Hey Nineteen” by Steely Dan See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.