Introducing WITHpod: The AI End Game

Mary and Andrew recognize it’s been a doozy of a week. Starting with the continued fallout from the Supreme Court’s Louisiana v. Callais decision, they focus on how much the 6-3 ruling has opened the floodgates for other states like Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida and Texas to pursue similar redistricting efforts. The Justices even allowed Alabama to move forward with re-drawing their congressional maps, despite prior determinations of intentional racial discrimination in the state. Mary and Andrew juxtapose this new landscape with last week’s redistricting decision in Virginia, as Democrats submit an emergency appeal to the Supreme Court on that ruling. In addition, a Fulton County decision came in allowing the Justice Department to hold onto the 2020 ballots seized in the FBI’s January raid. Plus, the co-hosts unpack the latest from Trump’s retribution efforts as James Comey’s criminal trial date is set. But in an uplifting end to a rough week, the pair highlight Senator Mark Kelly’s argument before the DC Circuit in his case against Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth over his participation in a video reminding military members of their duty not to obey unlawful orders. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: Here is the Just Security piece on Senator Mark Kelly’s case: Lessons from the Pentagon’s Empty Case Against Mark Kelly    Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

AI – and coverage of it – is everywhere. But what is artificial intelligence, really, beyond the buzzword? Each week, in a special new miniseries - ‘The AI End Game’ - Chris Hayes is joined by preeminent experts on AI and its effects to help make sense of this revolutionary time in history. The series will feature in-depth conversations with experts, including: The Atlantic journalist Derek Thompson; professor at Wharton and New York Times bestselling author Ethan Mollick, professor of psychology at UC Berkeley and member of the Berkeley AI Research Group Alison Gopnik; former co-lead of the Ethical Artificial Intelligence Team at Google and co-founder of Black in AI Timnit Gebru; philosopher and cognitive scientist David Chalmers; author, host of the “Better Offline” podcast and writer of the “Where's Your Ed At” newsletter, Ed Zitron; The New York Times journalist and author, Michael Pollan, and more. The first episode is available now wherever you get your podcasts.  Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Mary and Andrew begin this week by highlighting another questionable indictment of former FBI Director James Comey over a photo of seashells that he posted on Instagram. The indictment alleges that a “reasonable person” would interpret that the shells in the picture, arranged to spell out “86 47,” represent “a serious expression of an intent to do harm to the President of the United States.” Then, a win for Director Comey’s daughter Maurene, after a federal judge cleared the path for her wrongful termination suit against the Trump administration to proceed. Next, Mary and Andrew analyze the latest filings by the Southern Poverty Law Center and why whistleblowers are flagging their concern that the recent indictment was rushed. And before wrapping up, they break down the Supreme Court’s consequential ruling in Louisiana v. Callais, which effectively hollows out the last remnants of the Voting Rights Act by striking down a redistricting effort that was aiming to ensure an equal opportunity for representation in the state. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: Here is the SCOTUS 6-3 decision: Louisiana v. Callais Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, Mary and Andrew follow the money from Alabama to New York to Southern Florida. They start with an 11-count indictment against the Southern Poverty Law Center alleging financial crimes and defrauding donors — the DOJ suggesting that the center’s goal was to give funding to extremist groups rather than to report on them. The co-hosts find the charges dubious at best, with a speaking indictment that seems “weak” and lacks specifics. From there, they analyze another set of charges out of the SDNY against an Army soldier who won over $400,000 in online bets using his classified knowledge of the US capture of Nicolas Maduro. After reviewing the merits of that case, they head to Miami, where President Trump’s civil suit against the IRS was put on pause to discern how to handle him being on both sides of the case. As Mary notes, the judge is asking Trump to essentially “show me we really have adverse parties here.”Then to DC, for a look at the charges filed against the alleged gunman in the White House Correspondents’ Dinner shooting, and how the administration quickly used that as another reason to build the White House ballroom in an unusual court filing. And last up, Andrew and Mary review the DC Circuit’s decision on Trump’s asylum ban. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: Here is Andrew’s piece on the SPLC indictment: The Poverty of the DOJ Indictment of the Southern Poverty Law Center Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Mary and Andrew begin this week by welcoming former Assistant US Attorney Sunita Doddamani. A 20-year civil servant with an impeccable record of service, Sunita is one of the prosecutors who was recently fired as part of the DOJ's report about the prior administration's so-called “bias” against abortion protesters and religious rights in FACE Act cases. She talks openly about the "Article II" termination letter she received from Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, with no warning and like many others, seemingly just for doing her job by taking the cases assigned to her. From there, Andrew and Mary look at the administration’s moves to vacate the convictions of four Proud Boys who were convicted of multiple felonies related to the attack on January 6th. Then, on to a significant decision from Judge Mehta in a long-running civil lawsuit brought against Trump, finding that the president’s January 6th speech was political rather than official in nature, which would rule out immunity for official acts. And before they wrap up, the co-hosts take up the latest ruling on Judge Boasberg’s contempt inquiry into whether government officials violated his court orders around those deportation flights in March of 2025. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: Here is the Just Security piece on the FACE Act report: Separating Fact from Fiction in FACE Act Enforcement Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In the wake of Viktor Orbán's election loss in Hungary—an autocratic leader backed by both Vladamir Putin and Donald Trump—Mary and Andrew call on an expert to give context to Peter Magyar’s surprising win: Princeton Professor Kim Lane Scheppele. Kim sheds some light on what led to this moment in Hungary, what it means for Hungarians and the EU moving forward, and what lessons the US can apply here at home. From there, the co-hosts move to a concerning opinion from the Office of Legal Counsel declaring the Presidential Records Act unconstitutional on its face, suggesting that Trump would no longer have to comply with the federal law. Mary and Andrew align on the significance of preserving these archives, before heading to what amounts to, in Mary’s words: “a bunch of garbage”out of the DOJ. On the list: Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche’s “I love you, Sir” press conference, the firing of immigration judges for ruling in high-profile cases in a way that was unfavorable to the President, and the DOJ’s investigation into Cassidy Hutchinson, a former White House aide, about whether she lied to Congress around the events of January 6th. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There’s a lot to unpack this week, not least of which being the President’s open suggestion of committing war crimes against Iran. Mary and Andrew begin by underscoring the Geneva Conventions stipulation limiting the use of force in wartime to military targets – not civilian ones. Then, a major shakeup at the Department of Justice: Attorney General Pam Bondi is out. Andrew compares her ouster to Trump’s firing of Jeff Sessions in his first term, and how the “sycophantic” nature of her allegiance to Trump did not save her job. Next, they turn to last week's oral arguments before the Supreme Court over birthright citizenship. Mary, who is steeped in the case, came away thinking that “the solicitor general has a much greater hill to climb” to convince a majority of Justices to uphold Trump’s executive order at issue. Last up, the co-hosts look at another of Trump’s EO’s being challenged that would restrict mail-in voting, despite defending his own use of voting by mail in Florida's Special Election in late March. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: This is the Just Security piece Andrew referred to: When War Crimes Rhetoric Becomes Battlefield Reality: The Slippery Slope to Total War on Iran Here is Mary’s MS NOW piece: The embarrassing lesson of Pam Bondi’s confirmation hearing. Here is Trump’s EO on mail in voting that was immediately challenged: ENSURING CITIZENSHIP VERIFICATION AND INTEGRITY IN FEDERAL ELECTIONS Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

While much of the news is rightfully focused on the ongoing war with Iran, Mary and Andrew pull the threads on some consequential legal news that’s not getting as much attention. They start with the Justice Department’s settlement with Michael Flynn, paying out $1.25 million over his claim that he was wrongly prosecuted for making false statements to federal agents. And as Mary points out in her recent MS NOW op-ed, this settlement could set a dangerous precedent, by encouraging others “to seek similar windfalls” that support Trump’s efforts to rewrite history. Next, they unpack a case brought by Minnesota against the DOJ and DHS for blocking state investigators from accessing evidence in the Renee Good, Alex Pretti, and Julio Sosa-Celis shootings. And last up, the co-hosts break down a disastrous error the Justice Department admitted to this week, using an incorrect written policy to defend actions resulting in a number of arrests at immigration courthouses, as people voluntarily appeared for their immigration proceedings. You can also find us on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: Here is Mary’s MS NOW write up on Michael Flynn: Trump’s settlement to Michael Flynn could set a dangerous precedent.  Here is the Anthropic decision:  Anthropic PBC v. U.S. Department of War HERE is the ICE memorandum the government relied on to allow immigration arrests near courthouses. And HERE is the letter from the SDNY to Judge Kevin Castel noting their error. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Amid an unrelenting news cycle, one story really hit hard for both Mary and Andrew this week: the passing of former FBI Director Robert Mueller. Both hosts worked with him: Mary in the DC US Attorney’s Office; Andrew as FBI Special Counsel, General Counsel, and ultimately, as a top prosecutor in Mueller’s 2016 Special Counsel investigation into Russian election interference. They reflect on Mueller’s life and legacy being one dedicated topublic service, which, in Andrew’s accounting, “wasn't just a calling, it was a privilege.” Next, they move to a win for journalism and freedom of the press: Judge Paul Friedman’s decision in the case brought by the New York Times against the Pentagon regarding press access. And lastly, Mary and Andrew reviewMonday’s Supreme Court oral arguments in a case centered on whether mail-in ballots that arrive after Election Day should be counted. The co-hosts read the tea leaves on the merits the justices seem to be eyeing and what it could mean for midterm voting this fall. And, a big thank you to listeners as Main Justice celebrates it’s 3-year anniversary. Starting today, you can also find us on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last week, Judge James Boasberg checked in the Justice Department by quashing two subpoenas against Federal Reserve Board Chair Jerome Powell, intended to pressure him into "voting for lower interest rates or resigning.” Finding “essentially zero evidence” of criminal behavior, Mary and Andrew explain how these subpoenas were issued as retribution and retaliation against Powell, as Boasberg cited over 100 statements that the president and his deputies made attacking him. Next, the co-hosts dig into the disciplinary proceedings against President Trump’s pardon attorney Ed Martin, who, while serving as DC’s interim U.S. Attorney, pressured Georgetown Law School to change its curriculum. Last on the agenda, Mary and Andrew highlight the case that AI firm Anthropic filed against the Defense Department over being essentially blacklisted. The case is centered around the Pentagon labeling the AI firm a “supply chain risk” after they asked the Pentagon not to use their “Claude” AI technology to do two things: “deploy lethal autonomous warfare without human oversight” and use it for “mass surveillance of Americans.” Further reading:  Here is the complaint Anthropic filed against the government: Complaint For Declaratory And Injunctive Relief Here once again is the Federal Register if you’d like to enter public comment: Review of State Bar Complaints and Allegations Against Department of Justice Attorneys Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.