What Becomes Code? AI Agents and the Tokenized Fund | Alejandro Gutierrez | Superteam Ireland [EP. 328]

Dr Ian Hunt spent around 40 years on the buy side and was the design authority behind FundAdminChain, the first distributed ledger-based funds platform to go live in the UK. His new paper with Steve Whyman argues that tokenizing an existing asset changes how you own it and very little else: the same intermediaries, the same servicing, the same regulation. As Ian puts it, “by changing the way you own something, you don’t change the thing.” The missing half is what you’re owed. Ian makes the case for building finance from two primitive tokens, title and entitlement, so products can execute themselves and blockchains only have to agree on two things. Also in this one: why we built our own private stablecoin at FAC, why atomic settlement doesn’t have to mean instant, why most of the companies on the OKX and ICE tokenized stock list objected, and the composable investment specification Ian is now writing with Steve Whyman, Charlie Kerrigan, Rich Fox and Professor Sarah Green.Connect with Ian:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-ian-hunt-228880/Read the paper:https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6758022Subscribe on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/4F8uOLxiscYVWVGEfNxTndChapters0:00 Cold open0:17 Intro: Ian Hunt and FundAdminChain1:07 Cash on chain: the FAC private stablecoin3:25 What stablecoins open up: atomic doesn’t mean instant4:44 Stablecoins, tokenized deposits and the digital cash layer cake5:55 OKX, ICE and why issuers are objecting8:28 Apple is solvent, the token issuer goes bust10:37 The paper with Steve Whyman: own vs owed13:50 Title and entitlement, the two primitive tokens15:01 Interoperability: agreeing on two things instead of many16:24 Innovating without adding complexity17:08 The composable spec, and who’s writing it18:52 WrapMoneyNeverSleeps: sharp riffs, big ideas, and real insights from smart people. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend, GP at Norio Ventures.moneyneversleeps.ieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]

This week nearly half the companies on the OKX-ICE tokenized stock list opted out, and in the same week DTCC went live on Canton with JPMorgan signed up.That had me questioning my long-held view that TradFi would eventually fold into DeFi, so I asked Benedetto Biondi, co-founder and CEO of crosschain lending protocol Folks Finance and one of our Techstars Web3 mentors. He thinks DeFi’s early cyberpunk vision was naive, and that TradFi is adapting to onchain finance rather than to pure DeFi. It wants DeFi’s liquidity and reach but will only interact with it as a layer. We also get into why Folks won’t list securities directly, RWAs as collateral, Wield, their new regulated app, and why a $10 portfolio and a $10 million one should look the same to a protocol.Connect with Ben:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benedettobio/X: https://x.com/benedettobioFolks Finance: https://folks.financeSubscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4F8uOLxiscYVWVGEfNxTndChapters0:00 Cold open0:31 Intro1:06 Does the DeFi crowd care about TradFi coming onchain3:14 DeFi vs onchain finance5:36 OKX-ICE opt-outs and DTCC on Canton8:09 Three lanes: where does Folks sit?10:49 Wield and the regulated app12:17 Practical openness and the $10 portfolio13:34 Where to find BenSharp riffs, big ideas and real insights from smart people, all in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend with the people rebuilding money, markets, and the internet from the ground up.moneyneversleeps.ieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]

Alejandro Gutierrez of Superteam Ireland is back to take on Matt Walsh's challenge: are tokenized funds a new kind of asset, or the same fund on new rails? Off the back of BlackRock and Ondo putting model portfolios onchain, we get into the six ways people are tokenizing a share, whether a Terra moment or a regulator forces them to consolidate, and what happens to a fund's operating model when you redraw the org chart as AI agents and ask which processes become code and which stay human anchored. Plus why more than 60% of tokenized stock trading on Solana happens outside US market hours, and Alejandro's read from Solana Suits in London.Connect with Alejandro:https://www.linkedin.com/in/alejandro-gutierrez-98979b43/https://x.com/A_gutierroFollow MoneyNeverSleeps on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/4F8uOLxiscYVWVGEfNxTndChapters0:00 Cold open0:25 Intro1:03 Two parallel universes1:27 New asset or same fund on new rails?2:46 Making assets machine-readable3:26 BlackRock, Ondo and onchain model portfolios4:14 Tokenized equities' stablecoin moment5:06 Six ways to tokenize a share6:49 What becomes code, what stays human8:02 Collateral and the agentic fund9:43 Composability and distribution10:45 After hours belongs to agents12:05 Solana Suits: institutions are in13:40 Breakpoint 2026 in London14:24 Wrap upSharp riffs, big ideas and real insights from smart people, all in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend with the people rebuilding money, markets, and the internet from the ground up.moneyneversleeps.iehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVhttps://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/[email protected]

Pete Townsend is joined by Eoghan Powell, who runs WorkIQ, a new innovation centre for founders and early-stage companies in Tallaght, on the edge of Dublin. This is Part 2 of a pair on the Irish startup scene, after Derek O'Doherty of West x West on the capital side. Where Derek covered how founders find the money, Eoghan goes underneath that, to where founders come from in the first place. They start with Ireland's reliance on a handful of multinationals for its tax base, and the thin middle in the economy between company formation and homegrown giants like Ryanair and Kerry Group. Pete pushes back on how exposed the country really is, given how embedded Apple, Google and Meta have become, and they land on the point that whether or not the multinationals pull back, the founder pipeline needs building either way. Then the heart of it: Eoghan's case that this isn't a money problem, it's an ambition one. A kid in Dublin 4 grows up seeing founders at the dinner table; a kid in Tallaght or Kerry or Mayo often doesn't, and ends up believing people like them don't get that. His fix is honest role models, a visible front door, and the warm intro done at scale.Connect with Eoghan:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eoghanpowell1983/Website: https://workiq.ie/Chapters0:00 Cold open0:36 Intro and welcome1:14 Ireland's reliance on the multinationals2:47 The gap in the middle, and where founders come from3:17 Why the next Google needs a homegrown base5:02 The hard question: are the MNCs too embedded to leave?6:09 Why wait for them? The case for building our own7:47 Ambition, role models, and seeing the struggle8:33 The Collison brothers myth9:55 Does the kid in Tallaght believe they have access?11:15 Building the base: the front door12:20 The two-email warm intro, and how it scales14:04 Where to find Eoghan and WorkIQSharp riffs, big ideas and real insights from smart people, all in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend with the people rebuilding money, markets, and the internet from the ground up.Website: https://www.moneyneversleeps.ie/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]

Pete Townsend is joined by Derek O'Doherty, founder of West x West, the two-day tech, venture and culture festival in Castlebar, Mayo that brings Irish founders together with global investors. Derek spent thirty years in capital markets across London, Sydney and New York, and until last week a year inside Enterprise Ireland building international VC relationships for scaling companies. They get into why the Irish economy isn't big enough to carry a founder from pre-seed to Series B on home capital alone, the VC pecking order that sends founders abroad to raise, why Irish founders outside the US are second only to Israel in the share who raise capital, and why Derek left a state agency to build a festival that brings the funders to the founders instead. Plus the Nik Milanović super-connector path, why he's rooting it all in the West rather than Dublin, and what's on at WXW this October.Connect with Derek:https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-o-doherty-91669530/More on West x West:https://westxwest.ie/https://www.instagram.com/westxwest.ie/Listen and subscribe:https://open.spotify.com/show/4F8uOLxiscYVWVGEfNxTndChapters0:00 Cold open0:11 Intro and welcome0:47 Why Irish founders hit a wall on home capital1:22 The VC pecking order3:11 The pre-seed funding reality5:06 Bringing the capital to the market6:13 Why leave Enterprise Ireland now7:57 Why a festival, not a fund9:16 Community and the super connector10:18 Event details and lineup11:42 CloseSharp riffs, big ideas and real insights from smart people, all in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend with the people rebuilding money, markets, and the internet from the ground up.Web: https://www.moneyneversleeps.ie/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]

Steve Whyman spent 20 years trading fixed income at Bear Stearns, ABN AMRO, and BlackRock, then ran digital assets and tokenization inside Fidelity International, before leaving in 2025 to build onchain-native. In this episode he makes the case for tokenization from the one seat almost nobody tells it from: the trading desk.What pulled him out was seeing blockchain put every instrument on the same settlement rail. The frustration is what came next, five issuers wrapping the same stock five different ways, none of them netting against each other, and issuers walking away when the wrapper carries no legal recourse. Also in this one: why a desk never actually buys technology, whether AI agents can settle 24/7 when a smart contract can't own a security, and Steve's "wings of finance" case that the real prize is financing and collateral, not the shiny tokenized equity everyone's chasing.Connect with Steve:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-whyman-210a6273/Referenced in this episode:Semi Liquid: https://pcp.co/Solana Breakpoint, London, November 2026: https://solana.com/breakpointChapters0:00 Cold open0:24 Intro: Steve Whyman, from fixed income to onchain1:10 What made a 20-year trader jump: the rails are the same3:42 What a desk actually needs before it touches a tokenized instrument5:42 The F1 pit crew: why adoption is operational, not technical6:52 The fragmentation problem: five wrappers, one stock, no netting9:53 Same but better, or just adding layers?10:35 The wings of finance: financing and collateral, not the shiny equity11:28 Can AI agents legally settle 24/7 when a smart contract can't own a security?12:09 The love-hate: going native, and what stuck14:08 Where to find Steve, and Solana BreakpointMoneyNeverSleeps: sharp riffs, big ideas, and real insights from smart people, in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend, GP at Norio Ventures.moneyneversleeps.ieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]

Justin Swart, Partner at BITKRAFT Ventures, joins Pete Townsend to make the case that tokenization is doing to finance what the shipping container did to global trade (standardizing the box, not the cargo - h/t Aleks Larsen, Blockchain Capital), whether that's real containerization or just the same fragmentation problem moved onchain, how BITKRAFT's early bet on Roundhill's record-breaking Memory ETF fits a broader thesis on personalized finance, and why trading itself is becoming the new competitor to gaming for consumer attention.Chapters0:00 Cold open0:24 Intro: Justin Swart and BITKRAFT1:00 The container analogy, retold3:58 Robinhood's own chain, and stablecoins at Visa scale6:09 BUIDL, BENJI, and Robinhood Chain by the numbers7:15 Is this containerization, or fragmentation onchain?8:18 The consumer thesis: trading as entertainment10:37 Gamification, streamers, and trading as esports12:33 How founders should think about BITKRAFT14:02 Where to find BITKRAFTConnect with Justin:LinkedIn: https://za.linkedin.com/in/justinswart1Email: [email protected] on BITKRAFT:Website: https://www.bitkraft.vc/References:Episode 240, What's Next with Web3: https://www.moneyneversleeps.ie/alex-tapscott/Aleks Larsen's tweet on tokenization and containers: https://x.com/alekslarsen/status/2092302780379574675The Box by Marc Levinson: https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691170817/the-boxRoundhill Memory ETF (DRAM): https://www.roundhillinvestments.com/etf/dram/Matthew Ball, State of Video Gaming 2026: https://www.matthewball.co/all/presentation-the-state-of-video-gaming-in-2026MoneyNeverSleeps: sharp riffs, big ideas, and real insights from smart people, in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend, GP at Norio Ventures.moneyneversleeps.ieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]: #Tokenization #Crypto #VentureCapital #fintech #gaming

Andrea Miele is co-founder and CEO of Beezie, a gamified commerce platform Pete Townsend backed through Techstars in 2024, joins Pete to talk about why the "TCG" label never captured what Beezie actually is, what it took to raise a second round after some of the best-known funds in the space passed on her more than once, and what's next now that Beezie has expanded to Base and Solana.Connect with Andrea:X: https://x.com/AndreaMYellieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/agriffin717/Learn more about Beezie:Website: https://beezie.com/X: https://x.com/BeezieInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/beeziedotcom/Chapters0:00 Cold open0:32 Intro: Andrea Miele and Beezie1:22 What Beezie is, in plain English2:07 The Claw and the cold-start problem3:21 Why the TCG bucket undersells the vision5:26 The pack rip smell, and trading it for liquidity7:15 Building trust before asking for money8:17 Fundraising through thirty no's10:13 The lead investor who changed everything12:26 Base, Solana, and what's next13:41 Where to find BeezieMoneyNeverSleeps: sharp riffs, big ideas, and real insights from smart people, in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend, GP at Norio Ventures.moneyneversleeps.ieLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected]#Tokenization #Collectibles #Crypto #Startups

James McCann, CEO and founder of Everhaze, joins Pete Townsend to talk about the 80/20 problem breaking PR agency economics, how an agentic layer turns hundreds of daily regulatory mentions into a 10-minute digest for a fintech client, where the human side of PR (the trust, the intros, the relationships) still does the heavy lifting, and why VC skepticism about AI-wrapped software didn't stop him from closing his round.Connect with James:X: https://x.com/JimmyMcCann01LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesmccann862/ Learn more about Everhaze: https://everhaze.com/ X: https://x.com/everhaze LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/everhaze/Email: [email protected]: sharp riffs, big ideas, and real insights from smart people, in under 15 minutes. Hosted by early-stage investor Pete Townsend, GP at Norio Ventures.moneyneversleeps.ie LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/Email: [email protected] #AgenticAI #AI #PRTech #Startups

Elaine Deehan is back on MoneyNeverSleeps for her third appearance, and this one has been a long time coming. As Ireland Country Manager of Monzo Bank Europe, Elaine is doing what she's always done: building something that makes banking feel genuinely human, and genuinely Irish.Download the Monzo app and open your account at: https://monzo.com/ieMonzo went fully live in Ireland on April 14th with 100,000 people on the waitlist. But getting there wasn't a lift-and-shift from the UK. It meant walking the streets, talking to customers, and solving for the things that frustrate Irish people most about their banks. Elaine also talks about what the Irish playbook means for every market Monzo enters next.Connect with Elaine:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elainedeehan/Monzo Ireland: https://monzo.com/ieSubscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@moneyneversleeps1814Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/moneyneversleeps/id1455819294Connect with Pete:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petetownsendnv/X: https://x.com/PeteTownsendNVInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/petetownsend353/MoneyNeverSleeps: https://moneyneversleeps.ieEmail: [email protected]