Go To on the Fourth Instinct

Why do so many of us sit in silence next to a stranger, certain a conversation would go badly, when the data says otherwise? Kelly talks with behavioral scientist Nicholas Epley, author of the new book A Little More Social, about the small, quiet decisions that keep us more isolated than we need to be—and what happens in the rare moments we choose to reach out instead. We're airing this conversation as a part of the Be Hope Podcast Takeover, a project with the United Nations timed to the UN General Assembly — and Kelly makes the case that one of the simplest paths to hope is human connection. Kelly and Nick dig into why our own predictions about other people are so often wrong, what gets lost when we type instead of talk, and how a single question can turn a stranger into something closer to a friend. It's a conversation about the real, measurable cost of loneliness, and why connection might be less about finding the right words than about simply being willing to try.Thank you to our friends at the Aspen Ideas Festival where this episode was recorded.Check out Nick's book A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and ConnectionThis episode is part of the BE HOPE Podcast Takeover by Project Everyone, bringingtogether podcasts from around the world to explore the theme of hope and how we cancontinue to make progress in a rapidly changing world.

Kelly shares a listener's story that perfectly captures what Thanks For Being Here is all about - honoring the people who matter most, whether they're still with us or have moved on. Tracy Hargan's beautiful toast to her 80-year-old mother Janet shows us why these tributes are so powerful and needed. Through the toast given at her mom's birthday celebration, Tracy reminds us all to speak our love out loud - to grab those chances to tell someone exactly what they mean to us, creating moments of connection that stay with us forever. (Previously aired)

For almost 90 years, Harvard has been tracking the same group of men to answer one question: what actually leads to a long, happy life? Kelly digs into the findings, which point again and again to the same surprising answer — not money, not IQ — but the quality of our closest relationships. She connects it to research on chronic pain, a study on personality change well into old age, and a simple trick for staying connected that takes less time than a coffee run. It's a conversation about what actually protects us as we age, and why the smallest gestures of connection might matter more than we think.Links:Harvard Study of Adult Development:https://www.adultdevelopmentstudy.org/Robert Waldinger's TED talk on What Makes a Good Life? (discusses the Harvard study):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KkKuTCFvzI&t=16sKelly's PBS Tell Me More (video) episode with pain psychologist Rachel Zoffness:https://www.pbs.org/video/rachel-zoffness-1vq8xc/Kelly Corrigan Wonders podcast episode with Rachel Zoffness:https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast/rachelzoffnessJancee Dunn's article in the New York Times: "The Secret Power of the 8-Minute Phone Call"https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/02/well/phone-call-happiness-challenge.html

Why do we still treat music like a luxury, given everything we now know about what it actually does for the human brain? Kelly talks with music educator and composer Cava Menzies and hearing surgeon and neuroscientist Dr. Charles Limb about the strange, powerful territory where sound meets the mind—the growing evidence that hearing loss may be tied to cognitive decline, and the case that music itself may be one of the most underused tools we have for mental health. It's a conversation about creativity, flow, and the case for treating music less like entertainment and more like medicine.Special thanks to our friends at the Aspen Ideas Festival, where this conversation was recorded.

Kelly reads a birthday letter from her lifelong friend Mary Hope McQuiston to her father Bob, who is turning 90. Instead of throwing a surprise party, Mary Hope decided to honor her dad by collecting the lessons he's taught her—one for each decade he's lived. What unfolds is a portrait of a life well-lived, told through stories about elaborate pranks, deep friendships, showing up when it matters, and never missing an opportunity for dessert or— pyrotechnics. It's about the quiet ways we shape the people we love, and how the best parts of who we become are often learned by watching someone live with generosity, courage, and joy. (Previously aired)

Kelly follows up on her conversation with Susan Cain (author of Quiet and Bittersweet) with a song that captures the same ache of longing they talked about. It's a small tribute to the things we're all still waiting for, featuring a haunting, original song, Someday, by her friend — musician and NYU professor Mike Errico.Mike's book that Kelly mentioned is: Music, Lyrics, and Life: A Field Guide for the Advancing Songwriter

Author Susan Cain, who first reframed introversion for millions of readers in Quiet, turns her attention to something even more universal: the strange, aching beauty of knowing that everyone we love, we will someday lose. Kelly talks with Susan about why sorrow might be one of the most uniting forces we have — and what changes in us once we stop running from that truth. They also discuss Susan's bestseller Bittersweet, on sorrow and longing, and her new children's book, Lucky and Norman: Saying Goodbye Is Bittersweet, written by three generations of the Cain family. It's a conversation about the particular kind of happiness that only comes from accepting how fragile everything actually is, and why the ache might be worth it.

Kristina Phipps wrote this exquisite, poetic eulogy to honor her mom Ann Emanuels. Ann's love for beauty and her affinity for the natural world shone through in her garden, where she loved to spend time. She saw a world to be seized and not squandered and would pack more into a day than seemed humanly possible. Perhaps more than anything though, Ann viewed the world as a place that should be savored - like a plump peach warm off the tree - and she made sure to impart that valuable lesson to her three daughters. (Previously aired)

Kelly shares a piece by her friend Arianna Huffington ("Self-Discovery Is Our Strongest Drive" - New York Times, June 17, 2026) about the drive underneath all our other drives—the pull toward meaning that shows up in our hardest losses and our most exhausting successes. It's a reflection on what psychologist Abraham Maslow called transcendence, and what it means to keep growing toward the truest version of yourself, even when the world tells you success should be enough.

Kelly sits down with Jim Collins—the bestselling author behind business classics Good to Great and Built to Last—for a live conversation recorded on stage at Sixth & I in Washington, D.C., about his new book, What to Make of a Life. For over a decade, Collins studied 34 exceptional people, from astronauts to Supreme Court justices to rock stars, matching them into pairs who faced the same defining turning point in life and tracing how each person navigated what came after. They talk about the "cliff" moments that split a life in two, the disorienting fog that always follows, and why the advice we get from people who love us often says more about them than it does about us. It's a conversation about trusting the parts of yourself that don't come with a plan, and why some of the most meaningful chapters of a life can show up decades later than expected.