Exploring Countertransference Through the Fire Drill Technique — with Joanne Twombly

In this fifth visit to IFS Talks, Einat Bronstein joins Aníbal Henriques and Lexi Rothman to explore what Self is and how we can help clients access it. Einat shares how her understanding of Self has grown more spiritual over the years, and why IFS is, for her, a psycho-spiritual model. She explains why she rarely uses the word “Self” with clients, because talking about Self can wake up thinking parts. She offers a simple image: “don’t worry about the sun, just focus on your relationship with the clouds.”In this episode:How Einat’s understanding of Self has changed over 30 years of practiceThree ways Self shows up: as qualities, as leadership (the conductor and the musicians) and as energy or spaciousnessMore qualities of Self beyond the 8 C’s: choice, perspective, capacity for complexity, tenderness, reverence and aweNoticing “self-like” parts, and why quick answers often come from partsWhy we don’t need to go looking for the client’s Self: just be with the partsThe narrow corridor: why a small opening of Self is enough to beginDirect access as embodiment, and the therapist’s Self as something contagious that makes the room safeWhy Self doesn’t always look calm and can come as a surge of energyHow curiosity grows into a real relationship with partsA grandson’s yellow tractor, and shared humanity in groups in conflictTrusting Self in exile work, and learning to hold light in hard timesAbout Einat BronsteinEinat Bronstein, MSW, has more than 30 years of clinical experience with individuals, couples, families and groups. She learned IFS directly from Dick Schwartz in the early days of the model. She is a Senior International Lead Trainer with the IFS Institute, leading Level 1, 2 and 3 trainings around the world, and co-founder and co-director of the Israeli Institute for IFS. She recently received the IFS Institute’s Lifetime Achievement Award.Part of our series on Self, with Dick Schwartz, Cece Sykes, Einat Bronstein and, coming soon, Paul Neustadt.----We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems, a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey.  Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents. 

In this episode, we sit with Cece Sykes, LCSW, a leadi trainer at the IFS Institute with over forty years of clinical experience in trauma and addiction recovery,  to explore one of the most distinctive and challenging aspects of the IFS model: how therapists actually help clients find their way to Self. Among the topics we explore in this conversation:What we mean when we talk about "accessing Self," and how someone might recognize that experience for themselvesWays to access Self beyond unblending, including tools clients can use on their ownHow to introduce the concept of Self without turning it into another standard to fall short ofWhy Self doesn't have to look the same in everyone, and how to avoid mistaking an unusual presentation of Self for a partDistinguishing genuine Self-energy from a protector that's very good at appearing calm, compassionate, or wise Working with protectors whose fear of more Self-access makes complete sense given someone's historyWhat to do when a client says, "I don't think I have a Self"How the wish to access Self can itself become a source of pressure,  and what to do about itThe small, early signs that more Self-energy is becoming available, even amid distressWhether Self is fixed and undamaged from birth, or whether the capacity for it can be built and strengthened over the course of treatment What working with addiction and shame has taught Cece about helping people meet difficult parts with curiosity instead of judgmentHow the therapist's own access to Self shapes the work, and what happens when a helping part quietly takes the driver's seatPractices for therapists to use in the moment when their own parts get activated with a clientHolding inner work alongside the outer realities of safety, relationships, and circumstanceAdapting the language of Self across different cultural and spiritual frameworks Bringing a little more Self into the ordinary, activating moments of daily life,  conflict with a partner, a triggering child or colleagueCece's own reflections on what she is still learning about this work Whether you're new to IFS or a seasoned practitioner, this conversation offers both conceptual clarity and practical, in-the-room guidance for one of the model's most essential and elusive skills.We hope you can enjoy it!----We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey.  Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents.

In this episode of IFS Talks, Nancy Sowell, Martha Sweezy, and IFS founder Richard Schwartz join us to explore their new book, IFS Health Therapy: Treating Trauma-Related Physical Illness & Toxic Stress. Together, we discuss the relationship between chronic stress, trauma, internal parts, and physical health; working compassionately with pain, dissociation, shame, suppressed emotions, and protectors that resist healthier habits; and howIFS can complement, rather than replace, medical care. The conversation offers clinicians a thoughtful, non-pathologizing approach to supporting mind-body healing.----We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey.  Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents.

In this special episode of IFS Talks, we welcome Richard C. Schwartz, Martha Sweezy, David Lovas, and Sunny Strasburg, authors of Psychedelic Medicine and Internal Family Systems Therapy: A Clinical Skills Manual.Together, we explore why IFS and psychedelic-assisted therapy can be naturally complementary, and why the medicine itself is only one part of the therapeutic process. Our guests discuss the importance of preparation, respect for protectors, internal consent, careful pacing, therapeutic presence, clinical safety, and ethical practice.The conversation examines how therapists can distinguish Self-energy from altered or dissociative states, decide when to intervene during challenging experiences, and respond to fear, overwhelm, shutdown, and protector backlash. We also consider sensitive questions concerning touch, boundaries, therapist readiness, personal experience with psychedelic medicines, and the assessment of clients for whom this work may not yet be safe.Finally, we turn to integration: how IFS can help people make sense of psychedelic experiences, reconnect with every part of their system, and translate insight into meaningful and sustainable change.We believe this is a thoughtful and clinically grounded conversation about the possibilities of bringing IFS and psychedelic medicine together, without losing sight of humility, consent, safety, and respect for the client’s inner healing intelligence.This episode is intended for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice or encourage the use of psychedelic substances outside appropriately qualified, ethical, and legal settings.We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey. Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents. 

We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey. Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents. The Role of Uncertainty in Mental Health with Sarah Bergenfeld and Martha SweezyIn this episode, we welcome two leading voices in Internal Family Systems therapy for a conversation that bridges neuroscience, sensory experience, and healing. Sarah Bergenfield is a certified Level 3 IFS practitioner, writer, and educator specializing in autistic individuals and couples. Autistic herself, Sarah weaves together IFS, polyvagal theory, predictive processing, and sensory science in her clinical and consultation work. She teaches internationally for clinicians working with neurodiverse clients, and her work reframes autism not as a deficit, but as a condition of sensory surplus. Martha Sweezy is an assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, program consultant and supervisor at the Center for Mindfulness and Compassion at Cambridge Health Alliance, and a psychotherapist in private practice in Northampton, Massachusetts. She teaches IFS nationally and internationally and has authored and co-edited numerous books on the model, including Internal Family Systems Therapy, Second Edition (with Richard Schwartz), Intimacy from the Inside Out (with Toni Herbine-Blank), and Internal Family Systems Therapy for Shame and Guilt.Together, Sarah and Martha are co-authors of Wired to Feel: Autism as a Condition of Sensory Surplus.In this episode, we explore the role of uncertainty in mental health: how it can quietly drive distress and shame, and how IFS offers a path toward resolution. While the conversation has special relevance for autistic systems, the insights apply across all neurologies.

In this episode, we explore the nature of grief through the lens of Internal Family Systems (IFS) with senior trainer Einat Bronstein. Drawing on the work of Francis Weller and other key grief theorists, we reflect on grief not as a problem to solve, but as a deeply human experience that calls for presence, witnessing, and integration. We discuss how cultural expectations and “collective burdens” shape the way grief is experienced, often leading to blocked or frozen processes. From an IFS perspective, grief is understood as a complex, non-linear experience carried by different parts of the internal system, particularly exiles. The conversation explores topics like: How IFS differs from stage-based and task-oriented models of grief - such as those of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, John Bowlby, J. William Worden, and Robert NeimeyerWhat happens internally when we experience loss, and the roles of different parts in the grieving processWhy grief may feel stuck, and how Self-led witnessing can allow transformation and healingThe connection between present grief and earlier, unresolved lossesThe role of psychoeducation, ritual, and embodied expression in supporting griefWhat it means to “integrate” a loss within the IFS framework We also reflect on common pitfalls therapists may encounter when working with grief, and the deeper wisdom that can emerge from loss, about love, attachment, and the enduring presence of those we have lost. This episode is an invitation to approach grief with curiosity, compassion, and openness, honoring it as a doorway to connection, meaning, and inner transformation. We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey. Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents.  

Today on IFS Talks, we’re excited to welcome Lisa Spiegel and Claire Stubbs. Lisa is the founder of Soho Parenting in New York City. She’s an author and a certified IFS therapist and consultant who has worked with children and families for over 40 years and teaches therapists around the world.  Claire Stubbs is a chartered counseling psychologist, author, and IFS therapist in the UK, specializing in neurodiversity, trauma, and emotionally based school avoidance. She is the author of Emotionally Based School Avoidance: A Compassionate and supportive companion for you and your child. Today, we will be speaking with them about using IFS withchildren and families. Welcome, Lisa and Claire! We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn’t live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey. Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents.  

In today’s episode,  we speak with Joanne Twombly about a powerful IFS technique commonly known as "The Fire Drill, based on Joanne's chapter called The Fire Drill: Sorting Through Countertransference with IFS."And we also announce the recent publication of  IFS Collected Wisdom:Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems.We are deeply grateful to all those who contributed to this project, and endorsed this volume, including Richard Schwartz, Susan  McConnell, Cece  Sykes,  Joanne Twombly,  Einat  Bronstein, Bob  Falconer, and many others. We hope the book will be a companion on your IFS journey.Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom contents. 

Our guest is Paul Neustadt,  a clinical social worker and IFS Senior Co-lead Trainer. Paul has worked in community mental health and the counseling program of a working-class state university as well as having been the director of a community-based counseling and prevention program. Paul sees himself as a spiritual being in a human body, on a healing journey, in this life to learn lessons, to connect with his soul, and to live in accordance with his life purpose. Part of his life purpose has been to share the gift of IFS with others. In this episode, we discuss the qualities and virtues of Self-like parts, and how to welcome, honor, and genuinely validate them in a non-shaming way that allows more Self energy to emerge.

Today we welcome Catia Vinnik.  Catia Vinnik is a neuroscientist and science communicator who has dedicated over 20 years to understanding the brain—from sensory processing and memory to molecular mechanisms underlying complex behaviors. Recently, she has translated this extensive research into practical psychoeducation tools and interactive games for therapists. Catia graduated from medical school and earned her PhD in cognitive neuroscience in Italy, during which she discovered a novel auditory illusion. She founded the "Behaving Brain" project to bridge neuroscience and psychotherapy, creating accessible tools such as Brain Coping Cards that therapists can use with their clients.  Her belief that learning should be active, shapes workshops on the neuroscience of addiction, anxiety, depression, trauma, and other therapy-related topics by using interactive educational games that clarify complex neural interactions in the client's brain and how therapy taps into these processes. Dr. Vinnik is trained in Internal Family Systems, a model she values highly for its insightful perspective on the human mind.