Tobi Lütke Wants Shopify Employees to Use AI Reflexively — Should You? with Siadhal Magos of Metaview

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, the CEO of Metaview, and Nolan Church explore the emerging trend of "CEO AI mandates" from the likes of Tobias Lütke and Aaron Levie at Box.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card.Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhalNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S: The 6 Steps to Master AI: TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:33) The CEO AI Mandate Trend(01:22) Siadhal's Take on AI Mandates(02:35) AI Orchestration as a Career Necessity(03:00) Headcount Management in the AI Era(04:04) AI Leverage vs. Team Size(06:03) Sponsors: Thatch | Planful(08:13) AI Upskilling and Education(09:21) Personal AI Tuition in Organizations(10:18) The Reflexive AI Problem-Solving Approach(11:27) Show and Tell: Learning from Power Users(12:00) Knowing What's Possible as Motivation(13:22) Carrot vs. Stick: Recognizing AI Adoption(14:38) Beyond AI as a Metric: Performance is the Goal(15:34) Wrap(15:58) Sponsor: Metaview This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan unpacks the intricacies of 360 reviews from a management perspective, offering pragmatic approaches to synthesizing overwhelming feedback data. They contrast methodical theme-based analysis with modern AI-assisted solutions, emphasizing that meaningful feedback isn't an annual crucible but a continuous conversation peppered with five compliments per criticism.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:36) Dear Heretics - 360 Reviews Question (00:52) Good vs Bad 360 Reviews (06:34) Sponsors - Planful | Metaview (09:34) Using AI for 360 Reviews (11:38) On Using AI Tools (13:27) Sports Analogy Break (14:45) Getting the Ball Rolling (15:22) Continuous Feedback Approach (17:21) 5:1 Positive Ratio (17:59) Explaining the Why in Feedback (19:20) Making Feedback Enjoyable (19:26) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Troy Sultan who shares his journey from Google to founding Guide, an AI-powered recruiting coordination platform. Sultan challenges traditional recruiting assumptions, arguing modern candidates prefer transparency, speed, and self-service options that let them control their hiring experience.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH TROY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINTroy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troysultan/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKSGuide: https://www.guide.co/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:10) Troy's Exit from Google(01:44) The Cookie-Based Sales Strategy(02:54) Resource vs. Gem(03:33) Product vs. Go-to-Market Lessons(05:23) Selling to Gem(07:31) The Acquisition Strategy(09:25) Working with Brokers(11:46) Marketing to HR Leaders(14:05) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(17:05) The Value of Candidate Experience(19:42) Company Priorities vs. Actions(22:20) Guide: AI-Powered Recruiting Coordination(24:35) AI Adoption Challenges(26:18) Authors vs. Editors Framework(27:44) How Aria Works(30:18) World-Class Candidate Experience(31:31) The Self-Service Revolution(34:03) Customer Industries and Use Cases(37:20) Human Experience Across Job Types(40:03) The Cultural Shift to Self-Service(42:47) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan recap their experience at the recent Sapphire People Leader Retreat focused on the evolving role of CPOs in 2025, covering executive alignment, moral boundaries, burnout prevention, and peer networks. They also share a case of corporate identity theft targeting job candidates, highlighting emerging recruitment security challenges.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:10) The Role of CPO in 2025(02:20) Corporate Deep Fake Fraud Story(03:30) How the Deep Fake Was Discovered(04:00) FBI Involvement & Next Wave of Fraud(05:10) Pelion VC Domain Fraud Case(05:50) Value of Raw Conversations at Retreat(06:10) No One-Size-Fits-All CPO Role(07:00) Executive Alignment Importance(08:30) Sussing Out Cultural Fit(10:10) Moral Boundaries vs. Running Experiments(12:00) Learning from Radical Ideas at Carta(12:30) "Care a Little Less" Philosophy(14:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:14) Avoiding People Leader Burnout(19:20) Building Your Peer Network(21:10) Tactical Work vs. Strategic Leadership(22:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Annie Wickman shares insights from her journey as Google alum, first non-founder at Humu, and now Head of People at Character AI. Annie tackles our hardest questions in an unmissable episode. She covers the tensions between product-market fit and company culture, Character AI's unprecedented Google deal structure, taking the leap from people leader to a VC, and how to rebuild organizational trust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH ANNIE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINAnnie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-wickman-3332731/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Character.AI: https://character.ai/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:17) Experience as First Non-Founder at Humu(03:16) Early Employee Challenges & Responsibilities(05:03) Why Annie Stayed at Humu for Four Years(06:30) Product Market Fit vs. Company Culture(09:05) When to Invest in Culture(11:15) Hiring the Right Leaders for Company Stage(11:40) Maintaining Morale When Company Isn't Winning(12:42) Transparency as Trust Builder(13:47) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:47) Rebuilding Trust Through Honest Communication(19:11) Laszlo's Leadership Philosophy: Stretching People(21:02) Annie's Experience in Venture Capital at Forerunner(23:12) Teaching Founders to Fish vs. Providing Services(24:51) How to Evaluate VC Opportunities(26:09) Understanding VC Economics and Carry Structure(30:10) Character AI's Unprecedented Google Deal(32:56) Rebuilding Post-Acquisition: Product Vision Challenges(34:13) Annie's Perspective on the Deal Timeline(37:31) Post-Deal Reset: Napa Offsite and Hackathon(39:29) Employee Ownership After Acquisition(41:29) Building a New Culture While Keeping the Brand(42:11) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss a listener's dilemma about working with ethically questionable founders. They explore the tension between startup rule-bending culture and personal values, advising that leadership requires either full alignment with founders or graceful departure.They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues supporting them.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:52) Listener's Moral Dilemma with CEO (02:46) The Gamble With Me Philosophy (03:07) All In or All Out Leadership (04:09) Separating Morality from Alignment (04:38) The Danger of Staying When Misaligned (06:25) Toxic Without Knowing It (08:06) Modern Approach to Leadership Exits (08:53) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (11:48) Is This Normal Startup Life? (12:07) Understanding Startup Rule-Bending (14:00) The Entrepreneurial Mindset (15:12) The Popsicle Stand Example (16:46) Building Your Leadership Brand (17:27) Working With vs Around Founders (18:19) The Lemonade Stand Rule (19:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

HR Heretics welcomes back guest Brett Queener, Managing Director at Bonfire Ventures, for a check in on the current venture landscape.Fresh from raising a $245 million fund, Queener explores how AI is fundamentally changing software companies, emphasizing the need for rapid iteration and questioning traditional playbooks. He shares thoughtful perspectives on evaluating AI startups beyond the hype, the changing nature of talent requirements, and why successful companies must embrace a "change economy" mentality to thrive.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH BRETT, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBrett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettqueener/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Bonfire Ventures: https://www.bonfirevc.com/—OTHER RECOMMENDED LINKS:The Change Economy: —TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (01:07) Bonfire's $245M New Fund (03:24) Today's Frothy AI Market (06:30) The 11X AI SDR Case Study (08:18) AI's Revolutionary Impact on Products (11:12) First-Time vs. Repeat Founders in AI (14:39) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:38) Rethinking How Companies Operate (19:43) Hiring in the AI Era (22:58) Teams Getting Younger and AI Native (25:04) The Future of Junior Roles (28:22) The 11X Controversy Explained (30:29) Evaluating What's Real in AI Companies (33:29) Vibey Revenue and Real Value (37:00) Product Viability and Renewals (39:42) Assessing Founders and Products (42:10) The Case for In-Office Collaboration (44:31) The "Holy S**t" Product Moment (46:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, Metaview CEO, and Nolan Church dissect Anthropic's groundbreaking paper “Tracing the thoughts of a large language model” released on March 27, 2025. They explore surprising findings: LLMs plan ahead rather than simply predicting next tokens, think across multiple languages simultaneously, and often present explanations that satisfy humans rather than reflecting their actual reasoning processes.The conversation highlights the paradox of developing powerful AI systems without understanding their workings, raising implications for deployment, safety, and the "intelligence on tap" paradigm reshaping our technological relationship. We should all be paying attention.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Anthropic’s featured paper: https://www.anthropic.com/news/tracing-thoughts-language-model Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/—OTHER RECOMMENDED LINKS:Mercor: https://mercor.com/—TIMESTAMPS(00:13) Intro(00:45) Anthropic's Mind-Blowing Paper (01:37) LLMs Think Across Languages (02:04) Faked Reasoning in AI Models (02:28) AI Hallucinations Explained (03:00) First Paragraph Reveals Uncertainty (05:18) Beyond Next Token Prediction (07:23) Evaluating LLMs Without Understanding (08:44) More Human Than Software (10:05) Why You Should Experiment With AI (11:13) The Airplane Analogy (12:26) Safety Concerns for Future AI (12:54) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:27) Dario Amodei on AI Self-Policing (18:05) OpenAI's $300B Valuation (19:33) Intelligence on Tap (22:02) Retraining Google Habits (24:35) Agentic AI & Reinforcement Learning (27:15) Human Training for AI Models (30:25) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today we're excited to introduce you to an episode of 10x Recruiting, a podcast from Metaview hosted by our very own Nolan Church. 10x Recruiting is focused on conversations with top talent leaders to help listeners build world-class teams and stay ahead in the evolving recruiting landscape.Today's guest is Arthur Matuszewski, who shares insights from his diverse career at Bridgewater, Better.com, and his firm Carrara. He emphasizes intellectual honesty, focusing on work outputs rather than titles, and avoiding false negatives in hiring. Nolan says he's one of the most insightful guests ever.Matuszewski advocates for evaluating talent based on actual value creation rather than pedigree, and stresses the importance of adapting recruitment strategies to each org's unique context rather than relying on standardized playbooks.Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify for more interviews like this one.YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@10x_Recruiting_podApple: Spotify: —LINKS:Arthur’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthurmatuszewski/Carrara: https://www.carrara.is/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:53) Episode preview (05:51) Arthur's career journey overview (07:53) Lessons learned at Bridgewater (10:41) Recruiting for teams vs individuals (12:35) Bridgewater's culture of experimentation (16:47) High attrition rate and false negatives (23:22) Better.com's rise and viral moment (28:02) Defining intellectual honesty (30:08) Carrara and focusing on the work (37:56) Balancing productivity with thinking time (40:03) Avoiding sunk costs in talent decisions (43:31) Carrara's process for delivering winners (45:43) Showing founders what the market is saying (47:19) Internal vs external talent perspectives (51:58) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church are joined by Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR. Adams critiques traditional HR's rigid policies, advocating instead for judgment-based approaches that treat employees as grown-ups. The conversation explores challenges facing HR business partners, the evolution of DEI initiatives, and how organizations can create environments where people thrive through high-trust cultures, rather than compliance-driven systems.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card.Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH LUCY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINLucy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucykadams/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Disruptive HR: https://disruptivehr.com/Lucy’s article “HR Business Partner: The toughest role in HR?”: https://disruptivehr.com/hr-business-partner-the-toughest-role-in-hr/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:17) Lucy's Background and BBC Experience(03:08) Personal Connection and BBC Stories(04:25) Origins of Disruptive HR(07:00) Evolution of HR and Post-COVID Workplace Changes(11:39) Trust and Autonomy in Workplace Decisions(16:56) Trust as Foundation for Business Success(17:32) Sponsors: Thatch | Planful(20:27) Progressive HR Policies and Examples(23:53) HR Business Partner Role Challenges(25:13) Sponsor: Metaview(27:55) Messy Reality of Great HR Work(31:00) HR's Focus on Process vs. Real Impact(33:26) Current HR Trends and Community Concerns(35:56) DEI Evolution and Conversation Approaches(45:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com