Molly Graham on Founder Depression and Executive Team Dynamics

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan have a candid discussion with Silicon Valley operator Molly Graham on founder depression, imposter syndrome, executive team dynamics, and building business-first people operations at scaling companies.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH MOLLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMolly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mograham/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Glue Club: https://www.glueclub.com/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:43) Origin of “Giving Away Your Legos”(02:28) Emotions at Work(02:49) Meet Bob the Monster(04:15) Founder Depression Reality(06:27) The Emptiness of Startups(08:00) Life as a Barter Economy(09:14) “I Can’t Do Math” - Professional Moron Strategy(12:00) Growth Solves All Problems(13:00) When Leaders Hate Each Other(14:20) 50% Executive Hiring Success Rate(17:00) 18-Month Executive Tenure(18:34) Business First, Not Happiness(21:00) Era of Excess Is Over(21:51) Best Interview Question(22:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan analyze why traditional bonus programs fail at early-stage companies, advocating for flexible sprint incentives and spot bonuses over rigid annual structures that create organizational debt.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Bonus Program Question(01:04) The Cyclical Wave & Sales Incentives(01:42) Why Early-Stage Companies Struggle(02:46) The Coin-Operating Problem(03:26) The 96% Problem: Legacy & Recruiting Pressure(04:34) You Can’t Put the Toothpaste Back(05:30) Equity Over Bonuses(06:09) Inconsistent Application Across Teams(06:43) Walking It Back Is Brutal(08:06) Sponsor: Metaview(09:28) Technical Debt vs People Debt(11:10) Second Order Consequences(12:31) MBOs Are a Fable(12:53) The Solution: Sprint Incentives(14:04) Surprise and Delight: Spot Bonuses(15:08) Discretionary Budgets & Agility(15:54) Final Thoughts: Avoid People Debt(15:59) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, we’re excited to cross post a conversation from Metaview’s 10x Recruiting Podcast featuring Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recuiting Operations of Vercel, on using AI to analyze top interviewers’ transcripts, extracting their unconscious patterns and building tools that scale interviewing excellence.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH VIET, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINViet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vietnguyen6/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Vercel: https://vercel.com/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Progress Over Perfection(01:00) Why Throwing Messy Data at AI Actually Works(01:37) The Three-Hour Experiment That Changed Everything(02:38) Create Leverage Where Possible(03:30) Do Nothing vs. Do Something: The Real Choice(04:00) Sponsor: Metaview(04:14) Interview Begins: Meet Viet Nguyen(04:51) The Rejection That Led to Friendship(05:26) The Five-Year Tour of Duty in Recruiting Ops(06:37) From Zero Coding Skills to Building AI Tools(08:00) The Gaspar Effect: Decoding Your Best Interviewer(10:30) What Makes a Great Interviewer Great?(13:45) Building the Automated Back-Channel Reference Tool(17:20) The RAG Database That Knows Everyone(20:00) When AI Says “No Connections Found” (And Why That’s Okay)(23:15) The Webhook That Keeps Your Database Fresh(26:51) Perfect Is the Enemy of Progress(28:00) “Anybody Can Cook” - The Non-Technical Builder’s Manifesto(28:27) Automating Interview Debriefs: The Next Frontier(29:28) Real-Time Debrief Summaries: The Dream State(30:04) Where to Find Viet(30:33) Community Show and Tell: The Vision(31:15) We’re All Stupid Together (And That’s the Point)(32:05) Friday Night Recruiting Projects (32:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

 This episode with Jason James from Tezi briefly vanished from Spotify. Don’t ask us why. But it’s too good to not share again. So here’s Jason unpacking the future of recruiting. Please enjoy.Jason James doesn’t sugarcoat it: recruiting coordinators and sourcers won’t exist in 5 years. In this episode, James (Co-founder and COO of Tezi) sits down with Kelli and Nolan to discuss how to screen 3000 applicants in minutes, why most great resumes just rode the elevator up at hypergrowth companies, and why AI bias audits set a higher standard than humans ever could.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH JASON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasontezi/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Tezi: https://tezi.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:55) Meet Max: The AI Agent Replacing Recruiting Busywork(03:16) AI Bias vs Human Bias: Which Is Fairer?(06:08) Human-in-the-Loop: AI Recommends, Humans Decide(07:34) AI Interviews at Top of Funnel: What Works, What Doesn’t(11:00) Standing Out in a Crowded AI Recruiting Market(14:26) Sponsors: Ethena & Metaview(17:18) “RCs and Sourcers, Find Something Else”(20:30) The New Grad Opportunity: Alpha in a Tough Market(22:23) “Riding the Elevator Up”: The Resume Pedigree Problem(24:26) How to Spot Resume Riders vs Real Contributors(26:00) 100-Hour Weeks and the 9-9-6 Culture Debate(30:00) “The Best Culture Is Growth”(31:00) Tezi’s Culture: Committed to Calm, Team of Adults(34:00) What’s Next for Tezi?(34:56) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this latest AI Corner, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos joins Kelli and Nolan to discuss the “Trough of Disillusionment” in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows. Watch as Siadhal demonstrates Metaview’s AI sourcing, showcasing its intuitive, agent-based approach that moves beyond traditional Boolean methods.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Metaview:https://www.metaview.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:35) Why Metaview Built AI Sourcing(02:20) The Vision: Humans and AI Working Together(03:09) Technical Breakthrough: Browser Use and Computer Use(04:41) Beta to GA Launch Story(05:01) Promptless Sourcing Feature(06:36) Sponsor: Metaview(07:58) Demo(26:38) Data Sources and LinkedIn Compliance(28:01) Future: ATS Integration and Multi-Database Search(30:13) What’s Coming Next for Metaview(31:29) Product Development Philosophy(32:04) How to Try Metaview Sourcing(32:33) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan analyze why traditional bonus programs fail at early-stage companies, advocating for flexible sprint incentives and spot bonuses over rigid annual structures that create organizational debt.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Bonus Program Question(01:04) The Cyclical Wave & Sales Incentives(01:42) Why Early-Stage Companies Struggle(02:46) The Coin-Operating Problem(03:26) The 96% Problem: Legacy & Recruiting Pressure(04:34) You Can’t Put the Toothpaste Back(05:30) Equity Over Bonuses(06:09) Inconsistent Application Across Teams(06:43) Walking It Back Is Brutal(08:06) Sponsor: Metaview(09:28) Technical Debt vs People Debt(11:10) Second Order Consequences(12:31) MBOs Are a Fable(12:53) The Solution: Sprint Incentives(14:04) Surprise and Delight: Spot Bonuses(15:08) Discretionary Budgets & Agility(15:54) Final Thoughts: Avoid People Debt(15:59) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Jason James doesn’t sugarcoat it: recruiting coordinators and sourcers won’t exist in 5 years. In this episode, James (Co-founder and COO of Tezi) sits down with Kelli and Nolan to discuss how to screen 3000 applicants in minutes, why most great resumes just rode the elevator up at hypergrowth companies, and why AI bias audits set a higher standard than humans ever could.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH JASON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasontezi/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Tezi: https://tezi.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:55) Meet Max - The AI Agent Replacing Recruiting Busywork(03:16) AI Bias vs Human Bias: Which Is Fairer?(06:08) Human-in-the-Loop: AI Recommends, Humans Decide(07:34) What Works, What Doesn’t in AI Interviews at Top of Funnel(11:00) Standing Out in a Crowded AI Recruiting Market(14:26) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(17:18) “RCs and Sourcers: Find Something Else”(20:30) The New Grad Opportunity(22:23) “Riding the Elevator Up”: The Resume Pedigree Problem(24:26) How to Spot Resume Riders vs Real Contributors(26:00) 100-Hour Weeks and the 9-9-6 Culture Debate(30:00) “The Best Culture Is Growth”(31:00) Tezi’s Culture: Committed to Calm, Team of Adults(34:00) What’s Next for Tezi (34:56) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan debate radical workplace transparency: eliminating private Slack messages. They explore tensions between cultural openness, practical communication needs, and effective use of asynchronous tools.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The “No Private DMs” Rule(01:04) First Reactions: How This Would Actually Work(01:54) The Case for Transparency: Underground Slack Channels Are Toxic(02:35) The Reality Check: Leaders Still Need Private Conversations(03:42) Is Radical Transparency Just Performance Art?(04:20) The Productivity Problem: Slack Surfing vs Getting Work Done(05:11) Creating a “How We Slack” Document with Clear Rules(06:15) Using Public Channels to Develop Holistic Leaders(07:13) The Jensen Huang Model: Why He Doesn’t Do One-on-Ones(08:12) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(11:34) Hyper-Transparency from the CEO Builds Trust(12:31) It All Comes Down to Judgment(13:11) The Audio Message Revolution: Why Voice Beats Typing(15:20) Good vs Bad Audio Messages: It’s About Sender Judgment(16:15) The 10x Pace: Why Traditional Meeting Cadences Don’t Work Anymore(17:34) Final Thoughts: Experiment with Your Communication Style(17:46) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Sally Thornton, CEO and Founder of Forshay who offers a candid examination of fractional executive work, exploring trust barriers, adverse selection problems, pricing models, and why consulting acumen matters more than traditional executive experience.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SALLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSally: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallythornton/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Forshay: https://forshay.com/-For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:46) The Trust Barrier: Why Companies Resist Fractional Work(03:34) The TAM Debate and Market Dynamics Post-COVID(05:14) The Dirty Secret: There’s No Such Thing as Fractional Work(06:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(10:01) Who’s Buying and Why Finance Gets It(11:06) Let’s Talk Money: The 65/35 Structure and Market Rates(12:30) The Honeymoon Phase: Managing Boundaries and Expectations(14:44) How to Assess Fractional Executives: The 75% Rule(16:31) From Interim to Modular: How the Market Evolved(18:04) The Black Hole Question: Why Nobody’s Calling You Back(19:36) Network for Yourself: Nobody’s Managing Your Career But You(21:36) How to Sustain 15 Years: Running Experiments & Following Curiosity(22:31) Closing Thoughts: Agents for Executives Don’t Yet Exist(23:11) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga, revealing data-driven insights on building culture-first companies, balancing psychological safety with accountability, and prioritizing growth as engagement’s foundation.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDidier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Culture Amp: https://www.cultureamp.com/For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:30) From Harry Potter to Building Culture Amp(02:16) What Is a Culture-First Company?(03:19) The Coherency Matrix: Trust vs. Mission Orientation(04:40) Growth: The One Thing That’s Never Changed(05:36) Leaders Matter More Than Managers (The Data)(07:09) Don’t Bother Convincing People Who Don’t Get It(08:02) How Structured Reviews Closed the Gender Gap(09:17) Sponsor: Ethena | Metaview(12:39) Data Is Just the Start of Honest Conversations(13:28) Esther Perel: Leaders Don’t Know How to Say No(14:16) My Engagement Survey Mistake as CPO(15:32) Feedback Is Not a Gift, It’s a Workout(16:23) How We Run Culture Amp: Values and Growth(18:45) We Can’t Be Everything for Everyone(20:07) Storytelling: The Most Important Leadership Skill(22:07) Finding Your Authentic Narrative(23:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com