From Designer to CEO: Building Design-led and Journey-centric Business (Jochem van der Veer, CEO at TheyDo)

Welcome to Growthmates with Kate Syuma — Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).In this episode, I chat with Enzo Avigo, CEO of June.so. We delve into the journey of product management and the shift from being a Product Manager at companies like Zalando and Intercom to becoming a Startup founder. Enzo shares his insights on the key differences between product management in large companies and startups, and how that experience shaped his approach to building June.so, a platform for B2B SaaS companies that provides customer analytics for product-focused teams. We discuss positioning, product-market fit, and how to align multiple aspects like brand, marketing, and product into what Enzo calls "Position Market Fit."—By the end of this episode, you’ll gain insights on:- The transition from PM to Founder  - The role of design and user experience in creating a strong product position  - How to build a memorable product experience that stands out  - Practical examples of positioning, including how Enzo applies it at June.so  - Lessons learned on when to outsource brand work and when to handle it in-house—Brought to you by Command.ai — a user-focused platform offering an alternative to traditional popups or chatbots. Their AI “Copilot” answers questions, performs actions, and simplifies complex tasks. Use “Nudges” to guide users with timely, relevant messages, all within a no-code platform. Perfect for Product, Support, and Marketing teams to positively influence user behavior while respecting their needs: https://command.ai/— Self-Serve Onboarding course is coming back! Get 100€ off 🎁We open enrollment for the new cohort of the Self-Serve User Onboarding course. As an early-bird gift, we give all subscribers a discount of 100$ with a promocode “growthmates”. Reserve your spot now and join me on live sessions starting from September 16, 2024 (only 5 spots left): https://maven.com/growth-course/self-serve-onboarding—Key highlights from this episode 👇1. From PM to Founder: Enzo discusses the dream many Product Managers have of founding their own company and why it's so challenging to take the leap.2. Key Differences Between Large Companies & Startups: Enzo dives into why traditional product management techniques don't always translate into startup success.3. Position Market Fit: We discuss the metaphor of aligning multiple "planets" (product, brand, marketing, pricing, etc.) to achieve Position Market Fit, a crucial aspect for startups today.4. Importance of Memorable Experiences: Learn how creating a distinct and memorable product experience helps cement your product in users’ minds.5. In-House vs. Agency: Enzo shares the pros and cons of working with an agency for brand and product design versus keeping it in-house, with real-life examples from June.so.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).—Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guest — Enzo Avigo: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/enzoavigo/* June Website: https://june.so—What we’ve covered in this episode:[00:00] Introduction  [00:39] Enzo Avigo’s journey from Product Manager to Founder  [02:08] Differences between product management in large companies vs. startups  [06:52] What is Position Market Fit?  [13:20] How user experience and design drive a product’s position  [17:36] The role of memorable product experiences  [22:32] In-house vs. Agency branding — when to choose which  [30:57] Aligning multiple elements (product, brand, marketing) to achieve Position Market Fit  [42:24] Lightning Round: Memorable experiences, brands, and recommendations—📕 Resources Referenced* Position Market Fit article on Aakash Gupta Newsletter: * June.so — Enzo’s B2B SaaS company, Customer analytics for product-focused teams: https://june.so* “The Holistic Growth Playbook" by Growthmates with insights from 100+ companies on Growth and UX: https://growthmates.club/playbook—Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get the free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favorite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates with Kate Syuma — Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).—In this episode, I chat with Amy Bucher, Chief Behavioral Officer at Lirio and author of Engaged. We delve into the world of behavioral design, exploring how understanding human behavior can lead to more ethical and effective product development. Amy shares her journey from academia to leading behavioral design teams, and how frameworks like the COMBEE model and Behavior Change Wheel are essential tools for influencing user behavior.By the end of this episode, you'll learn how to apply behavioral science principles to your product, understand the importance of ethical design, and gain insights into leveraging AI for personalized user experiences 💡—Brought to you by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template to uncover meaningful improvements with an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside: appcues.com/growthmates—Self-Serve Onboarding course is coming back! Get 100€ off 🎁We open enrollment for the new cohort of the Self-Serve User Onboarding course. As an early-bird gift, we give all subscribers a discount of 100$ with a promocode “growthmates”. Reserve your spot now and join me on live sessions starting from September 16, 2024 (the cohort is limited to 20 participants): https://maven.com/growth-course/self-serve-onboarding—Key highlights from this episode 👇1: Behavioral Design Defined: Understand the fundamentals of behavioral design and how it differs from traditional UX/UI design.2: COMBEE Model and Behavior Change Wheel: Learn how capability, opportunity, and motivation drive behavior change and how to apply these concepts in product design.3: Ethical Design: Discover how to avoid dark patterns like over-gamification and notification fatigue.4: AI and Personalization: Explore how AI can be used to create personalized and effective user experiences.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).—Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guest — Amy Bucher:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amybucher/* “Engaged”: Designing for Behavior Change: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/engaged-designing-for-behavior-change/—What we’ve covered in this episode:[00:00] Introduction[00:39] Amy Bucher’s Journey: From Academia to Chief Behavioral Officer[02:08] Defining Behavioral Design and Its Importance[06:52] The COMBEE Model and Behavior Change Wheel[13:20] Understanding and Driving Internal Motivation[17:36] Ethical Considerations in Design: Avoiding Dark Patterns[22:32] Meeting Psychological Needs: Autonomy, Competence, and Relatedness[30:57] Writing Outcome Stories and Designing for Growth[42:24] Leveraging AI for Behavioral Design and Personalization[46:03] Lightning Round: Society’s Behavioral Gaps and Recommended—📕 Resources Referenced* “Engaged”: Designing for Behavior Change by Amy Bucher: https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/engaged-designing-for-behavior-change/* “The Holistic Growth Playbook” by Kate Syuma: https://growthmates.club/playbook* Behavioral Insights by Elspeth Kirkman and Michael Halsworth: https://www.amazon.com/Behavioral-Insights-Press-Essential-Knowledge/dp/0262539403* Actionable Gamification by Yukai Chu: https://www.amazon.com/Actionable-Gamification-audiobook/dp/B06XSWX7BN/* Power and Prediction by A.J. Agrawal, Joshua Gans, and A.V.I. Goldfarb: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Prediction-Disruptive-Artificial-Intelligence/dp/1647824192* Subtract by Lydie Klotz: https://www.amazon.com/Subtract-Untapped-Science-Leidy-Klotz/dp/1250249864—Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get the free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favorite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates with Kate Syuma — Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).—In this episode, I chat with Jochem Van Der Veer, co-founder and CEO of TheyDo, about his journey from UX design to leading a successful B2B SaaS company. We dive into the triple diamond framework, customer obsession, and key strategies for scaling a product. By the end, you’ll gain actionable insights on how to align business goals with customer outcomes and effectively grow your company.By the end of this episode, you'll learn about the triple diamond framework for design thinking, the importance of customer obsession, and practical strategies for scaling a B2B SaaS company 💪—Brought to you by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences. Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template to uncover meaningful improvements with an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside: appcues.com/growthmates—Self-Serve Onboarding course is coming back! Get 100€ off 🎁We open enrollment for the new cohort of the Self-Serve User Onboarding course. As an early-bird gift, we give all subscribers a discount of 100$ with a promocode “growthmates”. Reserve your spot now and join me on live sessions starting from September 16, 2024 (the cohort is limited to 20 participants): https://maven.com/growth-course/self-serve-onboardingKey highlights from this episode 👇1: Triple Diamond Framework: Learn how to apply the triple diamond approach to design thinking, from problem discovery to solution delivery, and how it can be used to design not just products, but entire organizations.2: Customer Obsession: Discover the importance of aligning your business with customer journeys and how customer obsession can drive significant impact and transformation in your organization.3: Opportunity Prioritization: Understand how to identify and prioritize opportunities within customer journeys to maximize business impact and improve customer experiences.4: Enterprise Growth Strategies: Gain insights into scaling a B2B SaaS company, from targeting enterprise clients early on to leveraging product-led growth strategies that drive long-term success.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).—Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guest — Jochem:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/* TheyDo: https://www.theydo.com/—What we’ve covered in this episode:[00:00] Introduction[00:39] From UX Design to CEO: Jochem’s Career Journey[01:45] The Transition from Design to Founding TheyDo[03:28] Building a Customer-Obsessed Organization[07:15] The Triple Diamond Framework Explained[12:02] Prioritizing Opportunities in Customer Journeys[18:34] Strategies for Scaling a B2B SaaS Company[26:11] Overcoming Challenges in Enterprise Sales[37:50] Maintaining a Customer-Centric Culture in a Growing Company[50:18] Practical Advice for Founders and Design Leaders—📕 Resources Referenced* Triple Diamond Framework: Learn more about the triple diamond approach and how it can be applied in various contexts to drive better design and business outcomes: https://www.launchnotes.com/blog/the-triple-diamond-design-process-a-comprehensive-guide* Demand-Side Sales by Bob Moesta - Explore the decision-making journeys of customers and how to leverage this understanding for better product development and marketing: https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progress/dp/1544509987* TheyDo: Discover more about TheyDo's journey management platform and how it can help your organization align around customer journeys effectively: https://www.theydo.com/* Airbnb Customer Journey announcement by Brian Chesky: https://x.com/bchesky/status/1654137863007612930?s=46&t=klJygKLXesDml2L3gDokgg—Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get the free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favorite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates. This is Kate Syuma, Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Thanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).In this episode, I met Lena Kul — a seasoned design recruiter with vast experience at companies like N26, Miro, and now a User Researcher. Lena shares her journey from design recruitment to user research, providing valuable insights for anyone looking to shift careers or land a job in the current competitive market.By the end of this episode, you'll learn how to make your job search more effective, craft a compelling portfolio, and negotiate your worth confidently 💪P.S. Lena is launching a new course, and I’ll be also there hosting a life session. It starts on the 5th of August (and she has just 2 spots left 🏃‍♀️).This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode that you can implement right away 👇1: Networking Strategies: Lena's tips on leveraging your network and reaching out to connections to stand out in a crowded job market.2: Portfolio Best Practices: The importance of adding a personal touch, maintaining a clear structure, and showcasing the impact of your work.3: Interview Preparation: The significance of asking insightful questions and demonstrating your process and thoughtfulness during interviews.4: Negotiation Tips: Starting salary discussions early, understanding your worth, and confidently pitching your value during the negotiation phase.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).Early birds 🎁 Get a 100€ discount on my Self-Service Onboarding course!Have you ever wondered — why some people start using the product, but never come back after the first session? The problem is that they can’t easily uncover the value that your entire team has been working hard on. We created a course intending to help you design the most valuable Onboarding experience. The course is filled with best practices we gathered from over 80 companies and frameworks that will help you uncover improvements in your onboarding, run user research, and create a fresh roadmap of new experiments. The new cohort starts already on the 2nd of September, and for dear listeners, we provide a discount of 100€ with the promo code “Growthmates”.  I would like to interact with each participant directly, and hope to see you there!— The early bird discount is valid till the 14th of August — The course is limited to 25 seats, feel free to invite your colleagues! 🏃‍♀️Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: * https://growthmates.club* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guest — Lena Kul:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-kul/* Lena’s Course: https://maven.com/lena-kul/master-your-product-design-and-ux-research-job-searchWhat we’ve covered in this episode:[00:00] Introduction[00:41] Career Journey[01:36] Shifting from Recruitment to User Research[03:07] Design Recruitment Insights[06:41] Evolving Role Requirements[10:17] Importance of Storytelling[16:46] Networking Strategies[27:00] Portfolio Best Practices[40:07] Interview Preparation[54:47] Negotiation Tips📕 Resources Referenced* Hiring Criteria — Chapter I, “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club/playbook* Elvis Obanya, Design Portfolio: https://www.elvisobanya.com/* Angela Laspriella, Design Portfolio: https://www.figma.com/deck/SDjeNkM7d1BrBhJSPirlxb/Portfolio?node-id=2-26&viewport=111%2C-67%2C0.65&t=JAKIHkMT6yiwUf2m-1&scaling=min-zoom&content-scaling=fixed&page-id=0%3A1 Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get the free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favorite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates. This is Kate Syuma, Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Thanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).In this episode, I met Bruno Berger — a VP of Design and Product Management who worked in companies like Google, Metabase, and now he’s teaching “Design for PMs” on Reforge. We discuss Bruno's career journey, the integration of design and product management, and best practices for improving collaboration between designers and PMs. We also explored Bruno's strategies for combining design and product management to enhance team collaboration and project success.By the end of this episode, you can learn how to make your PM and Design collaboration better by adjusting the ways of working, building trust, and how to align faster to make it the most rewarding thinking partnership.This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode that you can implement right away 👇* Generalist Career Journey: Bruno’s transition from product design and engineering to design leadership at Google and his current role at Metabase combining design and product management.* Integration of Disciplines: The benefits of combining product design with product management and the evolution of design roles over time.* TOP-3 Collaboration Challenges: Common issues between PMs and designers, such as late involvement of designers, lack of context, and misaligned expectations.* Best Practices for PMs: Importance of regular communication with designers (set up your Weekly 1:1!), clarifying goals, and providing project context to align expectations.* Advice for Designers: Develop curiosity about business and technical aspects, engage in strategic conversations, and understand business metrics.* Leadership Insights: The need for product leaders to understand designer motivations, include design leadership in strategic planning, and bridge the gap between goal-oriented PMs and craft-focused designers.* Future of Design Discipline: Prediction that future design roles will require well-rounded skill sets with increased integration of business and technical understanding.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube(new!).And one more thing 🎁To celebrate the first Growthmates anniversary, we prepared a gift to our community — “The Holistic Playbook for Growth Teams”. It’s a reflection of industry trends, in-depth interviews with our guests, and insights gathered from a hundred companies. You can get this playbook for free on our new website → growthmates.club.Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club * Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guest — Bruno Bergher:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brunobergher/* "Design for PMs" course on Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/courses/design-for-pms/What we’ve covered in this episode:[00:00] Introduction[00:41] Career Journey[01:36] Combining Design and Product Management[03:07] Leadership Transition[06:41] Teaching at Reforge[10:17] Collaboration Challenges[16:46] Best Practices for PMs[27:00] Advice for Designers[40:07] Importance of Business Acumen[54:47 ] Future of Design DisciplineResources referenced 📕* Bridging the Gap Between Design and PM - An article that discusses the intersection of design and product management: https://www.reforge.com/blog/product-manager-product-designer-collaboration* Good Strategy, Bad Strategy by Richard Rumelt: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239* High Output Management by Andy Grove - Provides insights into making processes efficient and effective: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884* Wonder by R.J. Palacio – A story about a boy with a genetic condition, offering a perspective on empathy and understanding: https://www.amazon.com/Wonder-R-J-Palacio/dp/0375869026Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favourite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates. This is Kate Syuma, Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Thanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).In this episode, I met with Behzod Sirjani — a leader in Research space who worked in companies like Slack and Facebook, and currently supporting the broader community as an Advisor and Reforge partnerResearch is one of my favourite topics, and we discussed how different companies should approach: from Startup to Scale up. By the end of this episode, you can learn how to get customer insights even in a small team, when it’s the right moment to bring a dedicated researcher, common mistakes, and how to scale the research forward.This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode that you can implement right away 👇1. User Research Evolution:* Startup phase: Founders act as first researchers, focusing on problem validation and customer understanding.* Growth phase (Series A): Consider hiring a dedicated researcher when research tasks start overwhelming the team.* Scale-up/Enterprise phase: Implement research ops and scalable processes.2. Early-stage Research Methods:* Interviews are crucial for understanding customer decision-making.* Usability testing helps identify user expectations vs. actual experiences.* Deeper partnerships with customers (e.g., design partners, diary studies) provide ongoing feedback.3. When to Hire a Dedicated Researcher:* When research tasks start taking too much time from other responsibilities.* Ideally, before there's a full-time workload, allowing time for infrastructure setup.4. Integrating Research into Teams:*  New researchers should map the organization's research needs and current practices.* Implement a mix of direct research, partnering with other teams, and supporting self-service research.* Use office hours to provide guidance and support to non-researchers.5. Scaling Research:* Implement research ops to protect customers, the business, and improve efficiency.* Standardize processes and tools across teams (e.g., survey templates, question banks).* Focus on high-leverage activities that raise the floor of research quality.6. Common Mistakes in Research at Scale:* Using research only for validation rather than exploration.* Researchers working in silos or "throwing research over the fence."* Forgetting that growth is everyone's job, including researchers.7. Key Research Skills:* Asking "why" and "how" questions to gain deeper insights.* Understanding the business context and how research drives growth.8. The Role of Research in Growth:* Research should directly contribute to acquisition, retention, and monetization.* Researchers need to understand how their work impacts business growth.And one more thing 🎁 To celebrate the first Growthmates anniversary, we prepared a gift to our community — “The Holistic Playbook for Growth Teams”. It’s a reflection of industry trends, in-depth interviews with our guests, and insights gathered from a hundred companies. You can get this playbook for free on our new website → growthmates.club.Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club * Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guest — Behzod Sirjani:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/behzodsirjani/ * “Yet Another Studio” Website: https://yetanother.studio/* Effective Customer Conversations Reforge course: https://www.reforge.com/courses/effective-customer-conversations/detailsWhat we’ve covered in this episode:00:34 Meeting Behzod Sirjani: Research Leader02:09 The Importance of User Research02:51 Behzod's Journey: From Facebook to Slack09:20 Building Research Practices at Slack14:42 Founding “Yet Another Studio”22:40 Research Strategies for Startups32:49 Investing in Facebook Video33:29 Building from Scratch with Big Companies34:06 Recognizing Startup Situations in Big Companies35:23 Scaling Up: When to Hire a Dedicated User Researcher35:51 Balancing Research and Decision Making38:03 The Role of a User Researcher45:46 The Importance of Office Hours46:26 Scaling Research in Large Companies51:50 Common Mistakes in Research at Scale55:14 Final Thoughts and RecommendationsResources Referenced:* "The Field Study Handbook" by Jan Chipchase : https://www.amazon.com/Field-Study-Handbook-Jan-Chipchase/dp/1939727065* Upcoming book "Research at Scale" by Kate Towsey : https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/research-that-scales/Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favourite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates. This is Kate Syuma, Growth advisor, previously Head of Growth Design at Miro. I’m building Growthmates as a place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Canva, Loom and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Get all episodes and a free playbook for Growth teams on our brand-new website — growthamtes.club, and press follow to support us on your favorite platforms. Thanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).To celebrate the first Growthmates anniversary, we prepared a gift to our community — “The Holistic Playbook for Growth Teams”. It’s a reflection of industry trends, in-depth interviews with our guests, and insights gathered from a hundred companies. You can get this playbook for free on our new website → growthmates.club. In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Andrew Capland, Coach for Heads of Growth, previously Director of Growth at Wistia, and one of the most supportive people I’ve recently met in the advising community. We explored some burning questions I recently used to survey 100 companies. I asked some of these questions to Andrew to get his wisdom.By the end of this episode, you can learn about new rituals to introduce in your Growth teamwork, the most impactful experiment on pricing from Wistia, and more ways to uncover Growth opportunities if you feel stuck.  If you find this show valuable, please share it with a colleague or friend — it greatly supports our efforts to continue creating it for you. To receive all episodes directly in your inbox, subscribe to growthamtes.club This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode:* Challenges in Product-Led Growth: We discussed key growth challenges with Andrew from the recent industry research I facilitated with 100+ companies. He shared a bunch of insights and his practical experience from Wistia and works with clients.* Building Growth Processes: A practical ritual Andrew recommends is "Full Story Fridays," where teams review user interactions to identify valuable improvements.* Driving Monetization: At Wistia, Andrew led pricing experimentation efforts, which involved diverse strategies to adjust pricing structures and packaging (listen more in a full episode). * Acquiring New Users (No Sign-Up Required): Andrew cites examples of products that have interactive versions on their websites, allowing potential users to engage with the product directly and enhancing the conversion rates dramatically .* Improving Activation and User Onboarding: To define the "aha" moment in user onboarding, Andrew suggests starting with qualitative insights from users who have recently engaged meaningfully with the product or upgraded. * and much more!Follow Growthmates updates on:* NEW! Growthmates website with “The Holistic Growth Playbook”: https://growthmates.club * Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guests:* Andrew Capland LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewcapland/ * Andrew’s Newsletter “Delivering Value” on SubstackWhat we’ve covered in this episode:00:00 Journey from Growth Leader to Growth Coach08:49 Challenges and Successes in Product-Led Growth15:10 Building Growth Processes for Success25:38 Acquiring New Users and ICP25:53 Improving Activation and User Onboarding26:39 Navigating Growth Challenges: Defining Metrics and Research Methods31:42 Uncovering Growth Opportunities: Strategies and Tools36:41 The Role of Advisors and Consultants in Growth39:47 Building Growth Processes and Driving MonetizationResources Referenced:* “The Holistic Growth Playbook” with insights from 100+ companies, expert takes from Dropbox, Amplitude, Loom, and more: growthmates.club/playbook* "The Lean Startup" by Eric Ries: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous-Innovation/dp/0307887898* "Crossing the Chasm" by Geoffrey A. Moore: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-Marketing-High-Tech-Mainstream/dp/0060517123* "Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products" by Nir Eyal: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-Products/dp/1591847788* "Inspired: How To Create Products Customers Love" by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Inspired-Create-Products-Customers-Love/dp/0981690408* Andrew’s Newsletter “Delivering Value” on Substack: media.deliveringvalue.coThank you for listening! Subscribe to the show on growthmates.club and get free playbook with frameworks and insights. If you find this valuable, please share it with your friends and colleagues, and subscribe to this show on your favourite platforms to get new episodes. Let’s keep growing together!For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] Thanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates — the place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Amplitude, Canva, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Subscribe to get all episodes right to your inbox on katesyuma.substack.com.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Janie Lee, Head of Product at Loom. We explored the evolution of Loom’s growth strategy, especially post-acquisition by Atlassian. By the end of this episode, you can learn how to start performing as a new leader and build the Growth function, how to hire for Growth and Core product roles, and my favorite insight about the most impactful experiment for Loom in the last year.If you find this show valuable, please share it with one of your colleagues or friends — it gives huge support to continue creating it. To receive all episodes right in your inbox — subscribe to katesyuma.substack.com This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode:* Strategic Use of Product Critiques at Loom: Janie Lee describes how Loom conducts strategic product reviews to evaluate high-stakes projects, using tools like Loom for efficient communication and decision-making, highlighting the importance of structured feedback.* Building Loom's Growth Team: Janie narrates the evolution of the growth team at Loom, starting from small-scale initiatives to establishing a dedicated growth team focused on customer journeys and business metrics, demonstrating the iterative process of growth strategy implementation.* Data-Informed Culture and Customer Insights: She discusses embedding a data-inforemd decision-making culture at Loom by creating a growth dashboard and prioritizing customer insights, which align product development closely with user needs and business objectives.* Core and Growth Teams: discussing differences in hiring approach and how both Core and Growth collaborated on some initiatives at Loom.* Most successful Growth experiment at Loom in the last 12 months: We discussed a significant growth experiment at Loom that adjusted anonymous viewer interactions, showcasing the trade-offs between enhancing user engagement and satisfying content creators, reflecting the nuanced decisions involved in growth strategy.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).Follow Growthmates updates on:* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syuma* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.comWhere to find our guests:* Janie Lee, Head of Product at Loom: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiejlee/What we’ve covered in this episode:[01:11] A Day in the Life of a Product Director [03:27] Strategic Product Critiques [04:55] The Joy of Management [06:20] Path to Leadership [08:30] Early Days at Loom [11:33] Data-Driven Insights [19:39] Significant Impact Changes [23:01] Product-Led Acquisition Insights [24:52] Core vs. Growth Product Teams [28:34] Successful Partnerships in Product Development [31:15] Hiring for Product and Growth [37:31] Adapting to Acquisition by Atlassian: Growth Perspectives [41:34] Maintaining a Growth Mindset in Large Organizations [44:11] Navigating the New Corporate Landscape [46:38] Lightning Round: Unexpected InspirationsResources Referenced:* How to make an impact in your first 90 days by Kyle Poyar on Lenny's Newsletter:* Various Reforge courses: https://www.reforge.com/If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share it with your colleagues and like-minded friends. For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] to get more episodes right in your inbox: katesyuma.substack.comThanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Welcome to Growthmates — the place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Amplitude, Canva, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Subscribe to get all episodes right to your inbox on katesyuma.substack.com.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).This time I had a chat with 2 fantastic leaders from SurveyMonkey — Brad, currently Director of Product, and Erica, who was a VP of Design and Research and recently started a new role at Intuit. Both Erica and Brad spent more than 7 years in the company, and we explored the evolution of Growth at SurveyMonkey over these years, and discussed significant chapters in the company's growth journey, including their legendary transition to a product-led growth model.My favorite part of the conversation was when Brad and Erica shared their expectations of ideal partnerships with each other, and how to build and maintain that partnership at a huge scale over the years.If you find this show valuable, please share it with one of your colleagues or friends — it gives huge support to continue creating it. To receive all episodes right in your inbox — subscribe to katesyuma.substack.com This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode:* Optimization of Key Touchpoints: SurveyMonkey's significant growth was driven by the optimization of survey end pages and the homepage, which were critical in enhancing user engagement and conversion rates.* Product-Led Growth Transition: The company successfully transitioned to a product-led growth model, focusing on refining trial experiences, optimizing pricing structures, and improving conversion flows to better meet user needs and drive growth. Brad shared the evolution of Growth at SurveyMonkey since the time he joined and learned from Elena Verna. * Integral Role of Design and Research: Design and research functions were crucial in providing insights that drove the company’s strategic decisions, fueling innovation and idea generation essential for growth.* Collaboration Between Product and Design Teams: Erica and Brad openly shared expectations towards each other on the episode — listen to this part! * Cultural Emphasis on Collaboration: we discussed the importance of incorporating collaborative practices like design rituals, which include peer critiques and shared design systems, to maintain alignment and visibility across teams.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).Follow Growthmates updates on:* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.com* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syumaWhere to find our guests:* Bradley Belford, Director of Product at SurveyMonkey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradley-belford/* Erica Weiss Tjader, ex-SurveyMonkey VP of Research and Design: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericatjader/What we’ve covered in this episode:[02:14] Welcoming Erica & Brad[06:02] SurveyMonkey Growth Chapters and Pivotal Moments[08:11] Transition to Product-Led Growth[10:15] Every Team as a Growth Team[17:19] Role of Design and Research in Strategic Moments[28:59] Product and Design Collaboration at Scale[37:10] Aligning User and Business Outcomes[43:41] Fostering Relationships Between Product and Design Functions[47:36] Balancing Deadlines and Iteration in Growth Initiatives[50:18] The Importance of Collaboration and Design Rituals[51:28] Resources and Key TakeawaysResources Referenced:* "Inspired: How To Create Tech Products Customers Love" by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Inspired-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507 * "Continuous Discovery Habits" by Teresa Torres: https://www.amazon.com/Continuous-Discovery-Habits-Discover-Products/dp/1736633309* "Empowered: Ordinary People, Extraordinary Products" by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Empowered-Ordinary-Extraordinary-Products-Silicon/dp/111969129X* UX Collective Community: UX Collective — a platform for product designers and UX practitioners to share insights, articles, and resources (I also published 2 articles on their Medium).If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share it with your colleagues and like-minded friends. For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] to get more episodes right in your inbox: katesyuma.substack.comThanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com

Quick update 🥳 Now the Growthmates newsletter and my other posts will be sent on Tuesdays (inboxes are packed with newsletters sent on Sundays). Hope you will enjoy the episode and listen to it throughout the week!Welcome to Growthmates — the place to connect with inspiring leaders to help you grow yourself and your product. Here you can learn how companies like Dropbox, Adobe, Amplitude, Canva, and many more are building excellent products and growth culture. Subscribe to get all episodes right to your inbox on katesyuma.substack.com.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).This time I talked to David Hoang, a VP of Design and Marketing at Replit, previously Head of Design and Weblow. David currently is an Executive focused on Design, Marketing, and Growth (sounds like a dream job!  )We started by discussing non-linear career trajectories, and how David combines all these disciplines as an executive. Then we talked about the importance of design in the future of Product-Led Growth, how to leverage templates for Growth and practical examples from Webflow, and finally how to align the whole company around quality.I loved how David emphasized the need to prioritize craft for product growth. I hope that by the end of this episode, you will feel the same way, and will take away some inspiration on building a non-linear career and advice to uplift the quality bar for your product.If you find this show valuable, please share it with one of your colleagues or friends — it gives huge support to continue creating it. To receive all episodes right in your inbox — subscribe to katesyuma.substack.com This episode is supported by Appcues — the platform that helps you design, deploy, and test captivating onboarding experiences.Appcues created the Product Adoption Academy to help you level up your product adoption for free. Check out the template that I created to help companies uncover meaningful improvements. Find an example of Dropbox Onboarding inside and apply it to review any growth flows: appcues.com/growthmatesKey highlights from this episode:* Merge Design with Marketing for Customer Insight: David Hoang, as VP of Design and Marketing, underscores that combining these fields focuses on optimizing the customer experience and adding value. Treat this intersection as a strategic asset to guide customer journey improvements.* Value Nonlinear Career Paths in Design: Embrace diverse career trajectories in design to enhance versatility and innovation within your team. This approach enables designers to contribute uniquely to various aspects of the business, particularly in product-led growth.* Foster Collaboration Between Teams: Effective growth requires seamless collaboration between growth and core teams. Prioritize end-to-end customer experience management, using cross-functional teamwork to identify and address customer friction points.* Utilize Community and Templates Strategically: Leverage community-led initiatives and templates to accelerate user acquisition, activation, and monetization. Recognize these tools as essential components for scalable growth strategies.* Commit to High-Quality Design Standards: Establish non-negotiable quality principles for design, ensuring it's ready for general availability. Incorporate design critiques as a regular practice to uphold quality, align the team, and foster continuous improvement over perfectionism.Listen now and subscribe on your favorite platforms — Apple, Spotify, or watch on YouTube (new!).For the 1st year of Growthmates, we’ve collected from dozens of leaders from Dropbox, Amplitude, Canva, Coda, Atlassian, and now I need your take.👉 Take a 7-min survey and get the first copy of “The PLG Playbook“🎁Follow Growthmates updates on:* Substack Newsletter (for instant inbox delivery): https://katesyuma.substack.com/podcast* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growthmates-podcast/* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/growthmates_/Where to find Kate Syuma, Growth Advisor (ex-Miro):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekaterina-syuma/* Newsletter: katesyuma.substack.com* X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/kate_syumaWhere to find David Hoang, VP of Design and Marketing at Replit (ex-Weblow):* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhoang2/* Newsletter: www.proofofconcept.pub* Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidhoangWhat we’ve covered in this episode:00:00 Nonlinear Career Trajectories03:52 Role of a VP of Design and Marketing07:35 Nonlinear Career Trajectories for Designers10:31 Design as the Future of Product-Led Growth20:10 End-to-End Experiences and Horizontal Focus23:46 Collaboration between Growth and Core Teams26:10 Leveraging Templates for Growth29:28 Community-Led Growth29:55 The Role of Design in Growth30:59 Defining Quality and Making it Actionable32:28 Emphasizing Craft and Quality33:21 The Stigma Against Growth Designers36:00 Non-Negotiable Quality Principles38:41 Treating Design as if it's Going to GA40:18 Defining Quality Standards41:37 Design Crit as a Space for Quality Discussions44:08 Aligning the Whole Company Around Quality46:38 Companies that Execute High-Quality47:11 Quality Principle: Iteration over Perfectionism48:47 Quality Principle: Iterate Smart51:25 Recommended Guests for the ShowReferenced:* David’s Newsletter: www.proofofconcept.pub* The Future of PLG is Design: www.proofofconcept.pub/p/the-future-of-plg-is-design* "The Humane Interface: New Directions for Designing Interactive Systems" by Jef Raskin: https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Interface-Directions-Designing-Interactive* "Org Design for Design Orgs: Building and Managing In-House Design Teams" by Peter Merholz and Kristin Skinner: https://www.amazon.com/Org-Design-Design-Orgs-ManagingIf you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share it with your colleagues and like-minded friends. For sponsorship and other inquiries reach out to [email protected] to get more episodes right in your inbox: katesyuma.substack.comThanks for reading Kate's Syuma Newsletter & Growthmates! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit katesyuma.substack.com