Hunting for a Flywheel | Refactoring’s Luca Rossi

Ben and Andrew open the show by dissecting why AI can't see gorillas, how big banks are stepping up to attract tech talent, and why focus is becoming the must-have resource for devs.Then, Vikram Chatterji, co-founder and CEO of Galileo, joins Andrew for a discussion on how engineering leaders can future-proof their AI strategy and navigate an emerging dilemma: the pressure to adopt AI to stay competitive, while justifying AI spend and avoiding risky investments.To accomplish this, Vikram emphasizes the importance of establishing clear evaluation frameworks, prioritizing AI use cases based on business needs and understanding your company's unique cultural context when deploying AI.Check out:8 Habits of Highly Productive Engineering TeamsBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamBook a demoFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Vikram ChatterjiReferenced in today's show:Your AI can’t see gorillasHow banks caught up in the battle for developer talentThe skill of the future is not 'AI', but 'Focus'Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Live from San Francisco, Dev Interrupted explores the future of developer productivity with Ori Keren (CEO, LinearB) and Dharmesh Thakker (General Partner, Battery Ventures). The conversation, recorded before a live audience in San Francisco, examines the exciting possibilities and potential challenges of AI-powered tools, from code completion and review to the more advanced agentic AI.  Moderated by Ben Lloyd Pearson, this episode captures the excitement of the event, including audience Q&A and feedback. Ori and Dharmesh share their insights on how these trends will shape the future of software development over the next 12 to 24 months, offering predictions and practical advice for engineering teams and leaders. Discover how these shifts will impact your work and the broader tech industry.Check out:8 Habits of Highly Productive Engineering TeamsBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamBook a demoFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Follow Dharmesh ThakkerReferenced in today's show:OpenAI CEO Sam Altman Says They've 'Been on the Wrong Side of HistorySoftware development topics I've changed my mind on after 10 years in the industryChat is a bad UI pattern for development toolsNASA is going to do a Twitch stream from the ISSSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

To open the show, Ben and Andrew dive into the latest headlines about DeepSeek from last week. We answer questions like “why did everyone search ‘Jevons paradox'?” and discuss strategic AI investments from financial giants like Goldman Sachs. These moves underscore the growing importance of strong engineering leadership in the age of AI.Then, Luca Rossi of Refactoring joins us to discuss his latest research. Drawing from a comprehensive survey of engineering professionals (thanks to you!), Luca breaks down the key traits and practices of successful engineering teams, revealing surprising correlations between team happiness, shipping frequency, and recognition by non-technical leadership.Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with today’s insights.Show Notes:Dev Interrupted SurveyBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamBook a demoFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Follow LucaReferenced in today's show:IBM cashing in on AIAI Stocks: How DeepSeek Changed Views On U.S.-China Artificial Intelligence Competition | Investor's Business DailyWilliam Stanley JevonsGoldman Sachs hires Amazon exec in senior AI engineering role | ReutersSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Ben and Andrew open the show by discussing the emergence of the DeepSeek AI model, Google's shakeup of the SEO landscape, and speculate on whether or not we're seeing the death of free APIs.Then, Ben sits down with Bernd Ruecker, Co-Founder and Chief Technologist at Camunda, to explore how low code solutions are changing the game for developers. They discuss how these tools allow developers to focus on more complex challenges, and delve into the importance of understanding when to leverage low code versus custom solutions, and the evolving role of developers in a world increasingly driven by automation.Finally, do us a favor and fill out the Dev Interrupted listener survey! You'll be our best friend forever :-)Show Notes:Dev Interrupted SurveyBeyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow BerndLearn more at: camunda.comCamundacon 2025Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Want to ship better software? Get in the fast lane.This week, hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Andrew Ziegler open the episode with a discussion of some of the tech topics dominating the news cycle like Microsoft's restructuring to focus on AI, a potential TikTok ban in the U.S. and a status check on New Year's resolutions. Then, joined by Dan Lines, they shift their focus to the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Report by LinearB. This in-depth conversation explores the crucial link between developer experience and productivity, the impact of project management hygiene on development, and new metrics like PR maturity and project traceability.Within this data-driven discussion, uncover key insights on how smaller PRs boost velocity and quality, the connection between longer cycle times and increased change failure rates, and the ideal investment profiles for engineering teams.Show Notes:Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)2025 Engineering BenchmarksWatch Rob Zuber (CircleCI) & Tara Hernandez (MongoDB) explore insights from the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks ReportFollow BenFollow AndrewSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is your company relying on surveys alone to bridge the gap between developers and managers?  In this episode of Dev Interrupted, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines, COO of LinearB, dive into the perceived misalignment between engineers and their leaders on improving developer experience. Together, they emphasize the importance of data-driven insights over relying solely on surveys, highlighting how quantifiable metrics can illuminate issues like technical debt and build times.  The conversation also touches on the power of setting clear, company-wide goals to boost developer experience and productivity.Next, Conor Bronsdon, in his final episode as host, sits down with Andrew Boyagi, Atlassian's head of DevOps Evangelism. Andrew brings a wealth of knowledge on developer experience, emphasizing the need for transparency, the nuances of measuring productivity, and the crucial role of company culture in aligning development teams with business goals.Show Notes:Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)2025 Engineering BenchmarksFollow BenFollow ConorFollow AtlassianSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

How do you build a culture that balances operational excellence with developer happiness? By shifting from firefighting to foresight.Kick off Season 5 of Dev Interrupted with hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson, Andrew Zigler, and Dan Lines as they share their New Year's resolutions and welcome Sowmya Subramanian, whose leadership journey spans Google, YouTube, and Oracle, to the show. From redefining metrics like DORA to adapting processes like Fix-It Weeks, Soumya discusses dismantling the “hero” mindset that rewards firefighting, aligning engineering with business priorities, and creating rituals that scale teams without sacrificing creativity.Tune in to learn how Sowmya’s holistic approach to metrics, culture, and tooling creates resilient teams and products that scale without breaking a sweat.Show Notes:Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)2025 Engineering BenchmarksFollow SowmyaFollow BenFollow AndrewSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

It's the end of an era on Dev Interrupted as we say farewell to host Conor Bronsdon and welcome a fresh voice, Andrew Zigler!Join us for a nostalgic trip down memory lane as Conor revisits his favorite interviews and moments from Season 4 and beyond, including discussions on chaos engineering, technical debt, and the human side of managing software engineers. He shares memorable stories from guests like Charity Majors, Rob Zuber, Kelly Vaughn, and many more, while reflecting on the evolution of Dev Interrupted and its impact on the engineering leadership community.But it’s not all bittersweet. Get an exclusive sneak peek at the exciting changes coming to Dev Interrupted in 2025. Expect the show to double down on research and data, explore new formats, and even hit the road with live events. Plus, the Dev Interrupted Substack will feature more frequent newsletters, unique analysis of research white papers, and insights from guest writers. You don’t want to miss this special episode filled with laughter, reflection, and a surprise holiday-themed game of Would You Rather. The team is taking off the holidays but we’ll see you back here on January 7th for the start of Season 5!Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarKeep up with Conor: SubstackListen to Conor at: Chain of Thought PodcastSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

2025 will test every assumption about how engineering teams work.With the new year fast approaching Ori Keren, CEO of LinearB, has some bold predictions that might surprise you, like why developer productivity could actually go down in 2025.Yep, you read that right.As AI tools flood the market, we might see a dip in both productivity and creativity before the long-term benefits kick in. It’s a wake-up call for engineering leaders to rethink how they lead their teams.Ori dives into the trends that’ll dominate:- AI’s rise- The ever-growing need for cybersecurity- Why DevEx and developer productivity are heading for a showdownHis advice? Stop flying blind. “You can’t optimize what you don’t measure,” he says.If you’re leading an engineering org, this episode is your 2025 game plan: a mix of data-driven decision-making and people-first strategies to stay ahead in a year of change. Don’t miss this insightful fusion of qual and quant.Show Notes:Join us at Dev Interrupted Live!2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarFollow OriFollow BenFollow AndrewSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What’s the secret to building better products? Letting engineers drive the vision.This week, host Ben Lloyd Pearson interviews Austin Spiegel, co-founder and CTO of Sift Stack, who previously spent years leading engineering teams at SpaceX. Austin reveals how SpaceX's unique engineering culture, which eliminated the product management layer,  influenced his approach to building Sift Stack, including the implementation of a forward-deployed engineering team.Learn how this approach leads to faster development cycles, happier customers, and more innovative products. Austin also argues that we're entering a new era where the most valuable engineers aren't just skilled coders, but also savvy business thinkers. He believes that as software development becomes easier due to the proliferation of AI, engineers who can connect their technical expertise with a deep understanding of customer needs and market trends will have a significant competitive advantage.Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarRead The secret to better products? Let engineers drive visionFollow Sift Stack on LinkedInSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever