AUA: How Do You Measure the ROI of Org Design?

Leaders often ask for a clear, immediate ROI on org design and transformation work—but that question can derail the conversation before it even starts. When ROI is framed purely as short-term financial return, it misses how organizations actually change and improve over time. In this mini Ask Us Anything episode, Rodney and Sam unpack how to approach ROI conversations in org design more productively. They explore why separate “transformation metrics” usually miss the point, how to anchor ROI to what leaders already care about, and why leading indicators like decision speed, cycle time, and meeting effectiveness matter more than tidy quarterly savings. Mentioned references: W. Edwards Deming Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

As 2025 comes to a close, AI hype is still everywhere, workers are feeling the strain of constant change, and organizations are quietly reorganizing who (or what) does the work. We’re ending the year with some big questions: What happens to the “middle” of organizations? How do humans fit into increasingly AI-driven systems? And where does real value—human and otherwise—get created? With only a few days left until the new year, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin look ahead to how AI, jobs, and organizational life will shift in 2026—from real white-collar displacement and the rise of internal org-design teams to employees quietly choosing AI over difficult human teammates. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: "⁠US military met recruiting goals ahead of schedule" "AI workslop" "Steam game marketplace, AI labeling" 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s a reflection you have on 2025? 03:44 Prediction 1: Hype cycle around AGI will break 05:03 Prediction 2: 2026 is tipping point for white collar AI job disruption 09:53 Prediction 3: Demand for internal OD teams increases 12:11 Prediction 4: People will start choosing AI over their coworkers for collab 15:04 Prediction 5: Divide between legacy orgs and AI-native micro orgs will grow 17:48 Prediction 6: New premium on human-crafted products and experience 21:57 Wrap up: Leave us a review, and see you in 2026 Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Many people who want to work in organizational change hit the same question: is it better to do this work from inside an organization, or from the outside as a consultant? In this AUA mini episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin respond to a listener who’s considering a career shift into org change and wrestling with whether internal transformation teams can really drive meaningful change—or whether outside consultants have more leverage. They unpack why internal org design teams are often constrained by design, where they can work when positioned well (hint: it’s probably not HR), and why external consulting offers faster learning through sheer volume of reps. They also explore how you can start doing work design and change work without holding a formal transformation title. Hear the episode this question was in response to: AWWTR Ep. 28 Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone knows performance management is broken—but we keep doing it anyway. Why? For decades, organizations have poured time, money, and emotional energy into performance management—even though almost everyone agrees it’s broken. Annual reviews take hundreds of hours, distort real feedback, collapse development into compensation, and leave both managers and employees frustrated. Worse, they often lower performance rather than improve it. And yet most companies keep doubling down on a system that was never designed for how people actually grow, learn, or work today. In this episode, Rodney and Sam rethink performance management from the ground up. They unpack why traditional systems fail, which psychological dynamics make feedback so fraught, and what a truly useful approach would look like if we started from scratch. From separating the four conflated “jobs” of performance management and designing for real development, to using AI as a feedback partner rather than a faster paperwork generator—they explore practical ways to build a process that actually helps people get better at their work. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: "performance management makes performance worse" ASSCATS ("Anything to Stop, Start, Continue After This Session?"), first discussed in BNW Ep. 65 with Alastair Steward "stress-performance curve" "Meta performance management with AI" "Josh Bersin episode" Granola 00:00 Intro + Check-In: Why is Sam still on the podcast when he left The Ready? 03:01 The Pattern: Performance management SUCKS, but we keep doing it 06:10 It’s trying to do too many jobs 07:54 We’re lied to about the purpose 11:19 It’s time consuming 14:10 The charade causes psychological harm and stunts growth 17:00 Rethinking PM from the ground up 18:14 Center the user 20:30 Easier process more frequently 23:15 Vary the size and type of feedback 26:09 Actually define what good ACTUALLY looks like by outcomes 29:21 Feedback in the context of an individual’s journey 32:59 AI’s role in future of performance management 46:02 AI’s role in the performance management of teams 50:30 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with a coworker! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Every organization eventually hits the same wall: central teams aren’t responsive enough, federated teams reinvent everything, and the result is a messy tug-of-war between alignment and autonomy. IT organizations feel this pain especially acutely. In this mini Ask Us Anything episode, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin unpack why centralized vs. decentralized is a false binary, why organizations swing endlessly between the two, and what it actually takes to design a federated model that works in the real world. Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Get the Experiment Proposal Template mentioned in this episode. Everyone says they want to “experiment” at work—especially now that AI is reshaping how teams operate—but most organizations still treat change like a project plan: analyze, design, roll out, hope for the best. The result? Fake experiments that are over-controlled and over-planned, or chaotic side projects that burn people out and quietly die. In systems this complex, you can’t think your way to the right answer, but you can test and learn your way there. In this episode of At Work with The Ready, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin dig into what real experimentation looks like inside organizations. They unpack why complexity demands an iterative approach, why so many “tests” are doomed from the start, and what it takes to scaffold experiments with the right authority, resourcing, and constraints. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Adam Grant's astrology post Previous experimentation episode: BNW Ep. 62 Aaron Dignan Charter management science operating rhythm: BNW Ep. 118 sunk cost Even/Over WIP (work in progress) The Ready's Experiment Proposal Template 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s a personal experiment you’ve done recently or are thinking about doing? 03:42 The Pattern: Desire for control and lack of structure stifles real experimentation 06:37 Parallels to R&D for pharmaceuticals 09:37 What’s missing in most company experiments 11:35 Example of The Ready’s experimentation 17:01 If everything succeeds, they aren’t experiments 22:21 Learning and scaling successful experiments is really hard 28:23 Ripple effects of experiments are just as important 30:00 Unstructured experimentation is deeply costly 34:57 Navigating the discomfort during experiments 37:28 Idea #1 - Create intentional space for learning 38:51 Idea #2 - The Ready’s Experiment Template 44:35 Idea #3 - No experiments for other people 46:10 Idea #4 - Prepare yourself for disappointment 48:48 Wrap up: leave us a review and share the show with your coworkers! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

How do you bring people along when you’re already living in the future? In this mini episode of At Work with The Ready, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin tackle a listener question about how to lead from the future without alienating your coworkers in the present. They explore what happens when you see change coming before others do—and how to turn that foresight into small, credible experiments that earn trust and build momentum. They discuss: — Why being “a few years ahead” can feel lonely and frustrating — How to communicate big ideas without overwhelming your team — Turning visionary thinking into real, testable action — What to do when your organization isn’t ready for what you see coming — How to build community with other forward thinkers Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠Let's talk!⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

It’s easy to blame “kids these days” when generational tension flares up at work. But beneath the eye rolls and stereotypes are deeper forces (economic shifts, social movements, and broken workplace systems) that shape how each generation sees loyalty, ambition, and success. From Boomers to Gen Z, we’ve all inherited stories about what work should look like and they don’t always fit the world we’re in now. In this episode, Rodney Evans sits down with Raven Solomon—author, keynote speaker, and CEO of the Future-Ready Institute—to explore what it really takes to lead across generations. They unpack what leaders need to unlearn in this moment, how Gen Z’s relationship to work is reshaping culture, and why inclusion and empathy—not authority—are the future of leadership. Learn more about Raven and her work: At her website Follow her on LinkedIn Future-Ready Friday webinar with Rodney -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Sword of Damocles Brené Brown "Gen X only generation to recover from 2008 recession" Fiverr Conway's Law "forming, storming, norming" Alvin Toffler generational theory "report where future of work skills no longer tech related" 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s something about your profession you can’t say on stage but wish people knew? 04:07 What power holders have to unlearn about younger generations 10:29 Gen Z’s changing relationship to work and capitalism 15:33 Opting out of taking leadership roles for better quality of life 20:25 The business and financial stakes behind real inclusion 29:15 Authenticity should be the cornerstone to all your strategies and messaging 32:38 The difficulties and business trade offs behind inclusion 39:54 Importance of human centered skills in this decade 44:50 Raven’s top skills to develop for the future of work 48:17 AI’s impact on the upcoming generations in the workplace 54:26 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with your colleagues! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

What happens when your small European company gets acquired by a massive American one? In this mini Ask Us Anything episode of At Work with The Ready, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin dig into what really happens when mergers cross not just company lines—but cultures. They unpack the hidden dynamics behind clashing values, communication styles, and leadership expectations that make cross-border integrations so difficult. They discuss: — Why culture work is always the hardest (and most ignored) part of a merger — What to do when your smaller team has limited influence — How to bring your company’s best practices into a much bigger system — The difference between American and European work norms — How to protect your culture—and your energy—during integration Looking for more advice about mergers and acquisitions? Check out this episode: AWWTR Ep. 32 Got a work question like this one you'd like us to answer? Email us at [email protected] -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠Let's talk!⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Get the AI Coffee Club toolkit to start one at your own organization: Download here! AI isn’t coming—it’s here. Every organization is already feeling its impact, whether through new tools, shifting expectations, or the quiet panic of not knowing where to start. But most companies are doing what they always do: treating transformation like a plan instead of an experiment. And as AI reshapes how work gets done, the biggest risk isn’t falling behind—it’s automating the dysfunctions you already have. In this episode of At Work with The Ready, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin take their first deep dive into AI since 2023. They unpack why AI acts as a mirror for your organization’s operating system, how hesitation and hype are both clouding judgment, and what it looks like to design meaningful ways to learn and experiment instead of performative roadmaps. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? ⁠⁠Let's talk.⁠⁠ Get our newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠ Follow us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Little Caesar's and Detroit Redwings connection The Ready's AI Coffee Club Dot-com bubble polarities in tension "traditional consulting episode": AWWTR Ep. 8 conference Rodney refers to: Charter Workplace Summit "AI as translation layer podcast" (actually an article) 00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s good? 03:13 The Pattern: AI is a mirror for everything in your org, and probably making it worse 09:48 Importance of doing your own research, even if you’re a skeptic 12:35 Treating AI as a paint job on your broken org won’t fix anything 16:30 The role of humans at work right now 21:03 Importance of real scaffolding to do this work 24:14 Recasting IT as the enabler rather than the traffic cop 28:03 Nobody is an expert yet and there is no roadmap 33:43 The easiest idea with AI usually isn’t the best one 39:28 What Rodney and Sam are hopeful about with AI 44:23 Counter ideas for engaging with AI 47:10 Wrap up: leave us a review and share the show with your coworkers Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.