367: Emotional Affairs: A Modern Problem in an Ancient Brain

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 04:03 Q1:  Married for 20 years but never loved him 21:10 Using the written word to express yourself 40:55 Q2: Can the "least attractive" still find sexual satisfaction and happiness?  1:03:25 Final thoughts Q1: I have been married to my husband for 20 years, we are both 45 now. He is a wonderful person, gentle, caring, sweet, intelligent, and an amazing father to our three small children, who all love him deeply. We have been through so much together and he helped make my dreams come true. I have great respect for him as a person and a deep seated gratitude for what he has done for me and my family, but I never loved him as a wife should love a husband, I’ve never been physically or sexually attracted to him. At this point in my life, I feel like I want to be with someone who I am physically attracted to. I want to experience the great romance that I never did in my youth. I know you will say leave him and find it, but you see, Dr. Lisle, it’s not so simple. He loves us greatly, and If I leave, it would crush him. I just can’t do that to him or the children, who are so very attached to him. If I leave, the guilt will eat away at me and I will be very unhappy, because I do love him in a way, for everything that he’s done for me. But don’t I deserve to at least try to go out and find my great romance? The more I think about it, the more it seems that I won’t be happy either way. What should I do? Q2: Can the woman who is objectively a 4 on the attractiveness scale really be happy and sexually satisfied with a man who is a 2 or 3? Or is she just with him because she knows she can’t do any better? Is she actually attracted to that man? I know I would never find a man who is a 3 attractive. I would much rather stay single for life than be with a man I am not 100% attracted to. Can less attractive people truly be happy in their pair bond relationship? X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast   Become Binge Free Course by Justina Froese https://justinafroese.com/become-binge-free/ Participants will have long-term access. It includes 100+ lectures, a community, social eating solutions, over 10+ hours of video content, recipes, and more—literally everything about recovering from binge eating. It’s like a binge eating library that will be updated whenever there’s something new and valuable to share.       

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 01:08 Q1:  Emotional Affairs – Is there such a thing? Is this a modern phenomenon? 16:20 Human Love instincts 24:10 A modern day problem 46:46 Can you prevent an emotional affair? 1:02:45 Final thoughts  Q1: Does Dr. Lisle believe in such a thing as an emotional affair? For instance, if someone in a committed relationship has a friend, coworker, or other acquaintance that they are attracted to and even fantasize about, how do you know where the line is and what is normal “boredom” as opposed to a real problem? Do you think that people who find themselves having feelings of emotional infidelity should disclose those details to their spouse if it doesn’t become physical? I realize that this is a vague question and any answer might come down to personal ethics. However, I would like to know if Dr. Lisle has any thoughts on this topic based on counseling people who have been in these types of situations. X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast   Become Binge Free Course by Justina Froese https://justinafroese.com/become-binge-free/ Participants will have long-term access. It includes 100+ lectures, a community, social eating solutions, over 10+ hours of video content, recipes, and more—literally everything about recovering from binge eating. It’s like a binge eating library that will be updated whenever there’s something new and valuable to share. 

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 01:40 Q1:  My friend went missing 17 years. How can I get closure? 14:14 Getting familiar with different causes of death 33:23 Trying to find out what you’re worried about 51:30 Final thoughts Q1: My question is about closing an open loop when it is impossible to get closure and all the information. A good friend of mine went missing 17 years ago. Police did an investigation but never found out what happened to him. He seemingly vanished into thin air. The investigation has been dead for 17 years with no new leads so it’s likely we’ll never know what happened to him. I still have an open loop regarding his disappearance and I regularly think about what might’ve happened to him. How can I close the loop and move on if it’s impossible to get all the information? Will this haunt me for the rest of my life? I’m not holding out hope that he’s alive, he’s likely dead, but I want closure and I’ll probably never get it. What can I do? X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast  

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 02:56 Q1: Do we call people lazy to excuse ourselves or to change them? 12:42 Q2:If goals bring esteem, why so much burnout? 28:20 Who gets burned out most often? 44:44 Evolution of Self esteem 1:10:20 Final thoughts Q1: Is the attribution of 'laziness' to others a form of self-deception by people high in conscientiousness to justify lowering our empathy to others? After all no one chooses their personality, some people are naturally less conscientious than others.  Or, does our nervous system get irritated so that we signal our anger to lazy people so they change their CBA of their behaviour? Q2: I have a question about self-esteem and building long-term happiness through the meaningful pursuit of achievable goals, which I’ve heard Doug discuss, and how it relates to burnout/feeling overwhelmed and therefore unhappy with life in the modern world.    If this really is the “formula” for happiness, why do so many people today end up burnt out or overextended in their pursuit of achievement, constantly striving for more?   In Europe, where I live, there’s a stronger cultural focus on slow living and enjoying simple pleasures, with less emphasis on wealth and material success. People here seem happier in general. Are they just pursuing more “realistic” goals? That are perhaps unrelated to building wealth?  In the U.S., why does goal achievement so often seem to come with unhappiness, burnout, and exhaustion?  If it is true that the only way to truly have self esteem is the meaningful pursuit of achievable goals, can you be happy if you ate NOT intentionally trying to better yourself or make yourself more competitive?   X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast    

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 01:50 Q1: What factors can predict divorce? 18:20 The Love Instinct 50:14 Q2: If marriage reduces effort to earn esteem, how can a woman feel secure having kids—and is it her job to vet the man well enough not to leave? 56:44  Final thoughts Q1: Can you speculate/attempt to predict who is most likely to get married and then divorced?  My wife and I have been happily married for almost 45 years but all around us we hear of couples divorcing even after just a few years of marriage. Q2: I appreciate your reasoning when it comes to marriage. From my recollection, you've explained that when 2 parties enter a legal contract like marriage, it now becomes more difficult to leave which can impact the effort both people put into earning esteem from one another.   Psychologically, this makes sense especially when it comes to a relationship without children. However, if a couple is considering children, how else  can a woman feel secure that the children & her will be provided for?  Is this simply the responsibility of the woman to properly vet the male for being a decent guy who won't just abandon his family even the relationship breaks up?   X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast    

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 02:00 Q1: Too neurotic to ever feel truly calm? 18:26 Recommending an expert in anxiety & OCD 31:55 Q2: If I think I'm a 7 but men treat me like a 3, who’s right—me or evolution? 54:30  Final thoughts Q1: Dear Dr. Lisle, I'm a big fan of yours and have come to understand that a person's personality is defined by their genes. However, I feel like I cannot change my circumstances enough to be happy. I'm highly conscientious and highly neurotic and I find that this combination is making enjoying life difficult. I'm sensitive, anxious and I have OCD tendencies. I'm also sensitive to loud noises, uncomfortable clothes and clutter. I'm always trying to perfect and optimize everything. I feel like I'm intelligent enough to realize that I cannot stop bad things from happening from cancer to accidents to criminality, but my brain is still trying to figure it all out and I try to prepare myself for anything and everything. I have a great pair bond relationship, I'm happy with the people who are my friends and family, a nice enough home and an okay job. But I'm just so stressed and anxious most of the time. Is it possible that I'm so neurotic that I'm just always going to be somewhat anxious and cannot find the environment/lifestyle in this world that would somehow calm my nervous system down? I started going to therapy once again to try and find some techniques that would help and my new therapist seems to be a good person and intelligent, but a part of me just feels that I'm not going to find relief there other than just some acceptance when the therapist tells me something like "it is ok to be just who you are". She says that cognitive behavioral therapy can help with generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not so sure.   Q2: I’m a young woman and all my life men of all ages have been mean to me for no apparent reason. I’m not talking about dating, but everyday life, like at the grocery store, at school, work, or just in general. They either ignore me or are just rude. Women, on the other hand, are always nice to me. I don’t think I’m unattractive, I’ve always rated myself above average, but men’s behavior toward me indicates otherwise. This has led me to hate men and actively avoid interacting with them. Should attractiveness be determined based on your opinion of yourself or on feedback you receive from the opposite sex? There is a discrepancy there for me, because I think I’m a 7 but I get treated like a 3 by men. Is pretty privilege a real thing and I just don’t get to experience it?   X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast    

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 02:48 Q1: Regarding Episode 27 “How to make great friends”, Could DDL address more specifically how to make great friends? Similarly he has said we should earn esteem in the right way from the people who matter. How do we know what the right way is, and how do we identify the people who matter? 14:57 Conflicts of interest between friends 23:20. Never make a big decision, when a small decision will do 33:30 How do you earn esteem in the right way 44:36 Final thoughts X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast  

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 04:25. Q1: Divorced dad entangled with ex 12:28 Genetic commitment calculations 27:14 Q2: Stuck with a closed-off boyfriend 33:53 Hugging an un-huggable friend 42:09 Final thoughts Q1: Any advice for a divorced dad who is still entangled with his ex wife? We have been divorced over five years now, but are still friends and live near one another. I initiated the divorce for a few reasons, mainly her emotional instability and our lack of intimacy. My ex is a nice person, but emotionally fragile. I help her a lot because we have two kids together and because she cannot handle working full time, so doesn’t make much money. I pay almost all of the bills for our kids and am often at her house. I don’t mind doing these things, but I can tell this is a turn off and red flag for women I have dated. The longest relationship I have had was just a few months, and that woman told me she felt she couldn’t trust me not to go back to my ex and that she knew she would never be a bigger priority than my ex. Am I wrong to feel this level of responsibility to someone I am no longer married to? Is it realistic to expect I can ever find love again while remaining close to my ex? If so, how should I approach this topic with romantic prospects?   Q2: I have been with my boyfriend for 6 years, he is 8 years older than me and we got together when I was 22. We do not live together.  He is very emotionally closed off and says this is because his parents never showed him much affection or told him they loved him so he’s never learned that behaviour.  He is also not very affectionate and gets visibly uncomfortable when I kiss him a few times in a row and rarely initiates this type of affection. I sometimes feel like I have a friendship, not a relationship.  It’s really difficult to have serious conversations about emotional issues or our future , including the prospect of living together as he gets overwhelmed and closes off.  When I spoke to him about the rejection I feel when he’s not affectionate he responded saying that is him being a genuine version of himself and he’s not willing to fake it.  Is this just a difference of personality types and do you have any methods to navigate these issues?   X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast    

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 02:41 Q1: How common are affairs? Is this typical human behavior? 34:12 Q2: Am I broken or just in the wrong pair bond?  57:40 Tenacious Delusions in Psychology 1:15:35 Final thoughts Q1: Can Dr. Lisle talk about the frequency of affairs, particularly in modern western civilization? I was a little surprised to read about the prevalence of affairs, particularly in men in “happy marriages,” described in The Mating Mind. I have been happily married for over 15 years and don’t have any evidence my husband has had an affair. But, I have had a general sense that it is possible, and that sense is reinforced by Buss’ statistical reports on the topic. If so many married people, especially men, have affairs, it seems odd that I almost never hear about such things amongst my social group. Are men just naturally extremely and effectively discreet with their affairs? Any thoughts about the ethics of extramarital affairs given how this behavior is clearly a typical aspect of human behavior? Q2: My friends are dissecting my ex relationship trying to analyse what went wrong, so do I actually, and Im being recommended a therapy so I do not make the same mistake again.  At almost 40 I met someone who was good enough to get pregnant with, although he turned out to be more disagreeable to what my nervous system could take( not to the outside world, just at home). One child, multiple miscarriages and 5 years later he left me… I felt guilty about it as I was the one making fights and creating conflicts as I would disagree with his criticism or poor advice or poor involvement/investment in a family life.  I have had a consultation with Dr Lisle already and his opinion was- it wasn’t a winning relationship.  But my ex partner came back. We went back to disagreeing and he left. All together 4 times in the last 6 months. He kept escaping to his sunny homeland Spain, whereas we’re in the rainy UK. Im left with a child on my own, and although I got what I wanted for many years, ie an offspring, my understanding is: he wasn’t my match, I stopped needing his help and I never truly admired his achievements. I was grateful for things he gave us, but I wanted more.  Do I need a therapy to work on myself being disagreeable like my father and my brothers. Or is the truth in the environment: once I meet someone who provisions enough and has a lot of expertise, I will shut up and sit quietly in awe?   X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast

Evolutionary psychologist, Doug Lisle, PhD discusses listener questions with co-host, Nathan Gershfeld. 0:00 Teaser Clips & Intro 04:31 Q1: My daughter doesn’t care about her appearance – could it be more than just preference? 14:32 Q2: Our 42 year old dependent daughter said she’ll kill herself after we die 32:35 Communication & Negotiation 39:06 Q3:  My pot-smoking husband’s libido has decreased – but is it me? 53:15 Final thoughts Q1: Is neglecting personal hygiene and physical appearance really a sign of depression, or is it just personality? My 37 year old daughter doesn’t care about her appearance at all, she wears pajamas and slippers everywhere with her hair up in a tangled bun and doesn’t wear makeup at all. This doesn’t seem so bad, but she’s completely neglecting her personal hygiene, she doesn’t shower for weeks, smells bad, doesn’t wash her hair for months, doesn’t brush her teeth regularly, hasn’t gotten a haircut in years (her hair’s almost down to her knees) and doesn’t even brush her hair. Her complete lack of personal hygiene is worrying. She wasn’t like this when she was living with me, but that could be because I was always telling her to do those things. Now that she’s living alone, is this just who she is? Or should I be worried that there’s something else wrong, like depression? Q2: My husband and I are both 77 years old and we are still working to support our 42 year old daughter. We could have retired a long time ago, but we still work to save up money so our daughter can live comfortably after our passing. We know she’ll never work - she hasn’t worked for 20 years. She was always a smart girl, she graduated with a bachelor’s degree in nursing and worked for a month during which she had many panic attacks and mental breakdowns. They forced her to take a medical leave of absence, was diagnosed with autism and anxiety issues, but she never went back to work and we’ve been supporting her ever since. We have quite a lot of money saved up, so she’ll be able to live comfortably after we die. I recently asked her what she’ll do after we die, she said she’ll kill herself, that she can’t live without us. This answer deeply upset me. My husband and I sacrificed our lives and retirement for her, just so she could kill herself in a few years. I feel like I wasted my life and she wasted hers, that I failed her and caused her to become so enmeshed with us that she can’t live without us. I’m heartbroken. I don’t know what to do. Do you have any advice? Q3: Does a man’s libido change overtime, and is it common? It has been a year since I’ve noticed a decrease in my husband’s sexual advances and general sexual interest in me. What used to be sex at least once a week is now biweekly or less. And sometimes he even struggles to orgasm. I’ve brought this issue up to him a few times and his reasons is that he’s tired because he works a lot (around 10 hours a day sometimes) and is generally stressed with work and life. I agree that our life is stressful right now for a few reasons (his new job, child raising, finances, dealing with family (his in-laws) issues etc) but I also have a hard time believing that those are the actual reasons. Even though I get stressed and tired, I still want to be intimate. I really don’t believe he’s cheating or anything like that- he’s a devoted husband and father otherwise, and I also haven’t gained weight, I’m the same I was when we met. But I’ve always been insecure about my looks and body so his lack of interest is really taking a toll on my ego. It seems he’d rather watch a show on his iPad than spend time with me. Could what he be saying really be true? Does a man’s libido decline with stress or age? He is 43 and I’m 33. He is also smokes cannabis regularly (always has since I met him). Any advice on how to handle the situation is greatly appreciated!   X: @BeatYourGenes Web: www.beatyourgenes.org Doug Lisle, PhD www.esteemdynamics.com Nathan Gershfeld, DC www.fastingescape.com Intro & outro song: City of Happy Ones • Ferenc Hegedus Licensed for use Copyright Beat Your Genes Podcast