Rhythms-Don't Count Them!
See Eric, Ron, and Beau's contact information and links at the end of these Episode Notes.
Quick recap
The meeting focused on the topic of rhythm teaching and learning, with Ron, Eric, and Beau discussing the Gordon approach to rhythm education. They explored why counting rhythms may not be the most effective way for beginners to learn rhythm, emphasizing the importance of kinesthetic learning and internalizing the feel of the beat before introducing counting. The group shared personal experiences and examples, including teaching young children and playing complex rhythms, to illustrate their points. They also touched on the subjectivity of rhythm perception and notation, highlighting the challenges teachers face when trying to convey rhythm concepts to students. The conversation concluded with a discussion on the benefits of movement-based rhythm instruction and the potential for nested harmony in both rhythm and harmony.
Rhythm Teaching Methods Debate
Beau and Eric discussed a controversial topic about rhythm teaching, sparked by Beau's YouTube video claiming that counting rhythms is not an effective learning method. Ron explained Gordon's perspective on rhythm education, emphasizing that rhythm is primarily kinesthetic and involves feeling physical imbalances and flow, which develop naturally before counting is introduced. The discussion highlighted the debate surrounding rhythm teaching methods and the importance of aural and physical learning experiences in music education.
Kinesthetic Learning in Music Rhythm
The group discussed the importance of kinesthetic learning in music, particularly in understanding rhythm. They emphasized that students should physically experience rhythms before being taught abstract concepts. Eric shared etymology of the word "rhythm" and compared it to a hammock, where the strings represent beats and the space between them is where the action happens. Ron and Beau highlighted how teachers often skip the kinesthetic learning phase, leading to students who can perform simple rhythms but struggle with more complex concepts later on. They also discussed the effectiveness of metronome use, noting that it can be beneficial when students have a solid understanding of meter but is useless without it.
Metronome Alternatives in Music Education
The group discussed the use of metronomes and counting in music education, with Beau sharing concerns about parents pressuring students to use metronomes despite their own reservations. Ron and Beau explored how physical movement and intuition can be more effective than strict counting for maintaining rhythm, with Ron sharing his personal experience of learning to keep time by observing his teacher's body movements. They concluded that while counting has its place, it should be complemented with kinesthetic learning and that teachers should demonstrate proper timing through their own movements rather than relying solely on numerical counting.
Rhythm Understanding Challenges in Music
The group discussed their experiences with rhythm and meter, particularly in music education. Beau shared his struggle to understand 6-8 time signatures despite being able to play in triple meter, while Ron and Eric recounted how they initially misinterpreted rhythms in Stravinsky's Firebird and swing music. The conversation explored the challenges of teaching rhythm through counting versus kinesthetic understanding, with Beau suggesting that well-intentioned teachers sometimes overemphasize counting at the expense of physical sensation. The discussion concluded with a brief mention of rhythm challenges in specific songs like Tool's Schism and Radiohead's Pyramid Song.
Rhythmic Complexity and Auditory Perception
The group discussed rhythmic complexity and auditory perception, with Ron and Eric sharing examples of music where the melody floats or hovers above the beat, such as Ornette Coleman's pieces and Daryl Garner's performances. They explored how musicians like Billie Holiday and Dave Holland create complex rhythmic patterns that challenge traditional counting methods. Beau shared a student's question about different time signatures being perceived by different band members, leading to a discussion about whether it's possible to audiate multiple meters simultaneously. The conversation concluded with Eric sharing his experience teaching children to feel and move to complex rhythms, noting that while the children can perform patterns, they struggle to say rhythms while moving.
Speech, Movement, and Rhythm Coordination
The group discussed challenges in coordinating speech and movement, particularly in teaching rhythm and music. Eric explained his approach of teaching speech before movement, inspired by Phyllis Weikert's method, while Ron and Beau compared this to teaching drummers about breath and movement coordination. Beau raised concerns about how discussions about ear-based learning might be misunderstood as opposition to music theory or notation, emphasizing that the timing of introducing different learning methods is crucial. The conversation concluded with Eric and Beau discussing the different ways students might engage with counting and rhythm, acknowledging that while some students focus on numbers, others prioritize the actual sound.
Rhythm Teaching Through Movement
The group discussed rhythm learning and teaching methods, with Eric sharing his approach of using familiar songs and body movement to teach rhythm to young children without counting. Beau shared a success story about a piano student who developed impeccable bebop phrasing through physical movement and visual learning rather than counting, leading to a discussion about how physical movement and kinesthesia come before counting in rhythm development. The conversation concluded with a discussion about a rhythm learning sequence and how it can be used to predict and guide a student's rhythmic development, with Beau sharing an example of teaching a Montuno pattern to a student by breaking it down into smaller components.
Movement-Based Rhythm Teaching Methods
The group discussed teaching rhythm and counting to children through movement-based learning. Eric shared his method of teaching children the "chicken and froggy" sequence, while Ron described his approach of using movement to teach patterns and rhythms in 7/8 time. They agreed that this kinesthetic learning method significantly improves children's rhythm skills and breath control for singing. The conversation concluded with a lighthearted exchange about counting and rhythm perception, including a reference to political dancing.
Hosts:
Eric Rasmussen, PhD in Music Education, Temple University. Three-year student of Dr. Edwin Gordon.
Chair, Early Childhood Music, Peabody Preparatory, Johns Hopkins University
Author of Harmonic Learning Sequence curriculum:Dr. Eric's Book of Songs and Chants including Harmonic Learning Sequence. See Dr. Eric's course schedule and register here.Email Dr. Eric: [email protected]
Ron Malanga - Gordon and MLT aficionado. A science nerd who loves being a music teacher, & vice-versa, Mr. Malanga leads an eclectic musical life. Passionate about re-aligning pedagogy with recent science on how the musical mind functions, he has led 100+ seminars on the subject, including as an invited lecturer at the New University of Lisbon, as a keynote speaker for SciFest Dubai, and most recently for the BSME Music & Drama Conference and Institut Gordonowski in Poland. Email Ron: [email protected] Ron's Blogpost on rhythm here.Beau Taillefer - Guitarist (jazz and classical), music educator, intellectual https://www.youtube.com/@beautaillefermusichttps://www.beautaillefer.caEmail Beau: [email protected]
