Episode 225: Navigating the Fallow Years | A Conversation with Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi

Sometimes it’s hard to untangle specific beliefs from our ideas about faith. Is struggling with church policies or doctrinal tenets an indictment of a Latter-day Saint woman’s faith? What does it even mean to have faith? And who gets to measure ours? In Episode 226, Cynthia and Susan take on a topic that comes up frequently for church members who find themselves on a journey of expansion or redefinition: Imposter Syndrome. It’s a conversation about faith vs. knowledge, Churchianity vs. Christianity, the place of doubt in a religious life, and finding hope by leaning into personal spiritual authority.

“I have always felt the gentle nature of Jesus being one of the most resonating parts of what I saw and knew as the gospel, and I always imagined Jesus speaking to me, saying, ‘Consider the lilies, how they grow, and they don't toil.' And my whole life ... I have been a toiler,” explains Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi. “What if I wasn’t a planter at this time, and what if I was the field?” In Episode 225, Kajsa joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about being still. What kind of rejuvenative possibilities might exist when, for whatever reason, we find ourselves in what feels like a fallow stretch of life?

Maya Angelou said, “There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.” When things start to get shifty in your faith life, it can feel overwhelming and difficult to talk about, even with those closest to you. There are as many stories of evolving faith as there are Latter-day Saint women who experience them. For Season 10, Cynthia and Susan have asked listeners to share what started them on the journey they’re navigating now. In Episode 224, they explore some of those stories.

“There is hope in the certainty that things do change,” writes Buddhist teacher Sharon Salzberg. But there is also real anxiety in the certainty that things do change. Change is the force that pushes us forward, without asking whether we want to move. Can the way we think about and navigate life’s transitions improve our experience of them? In Episode 223, Susan and Cynthia are back for Season 10 with a conversation about the relentless nature of change, and what it might mean to lean into hope.

In this bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss a few voicemails from the ALSSI mailbag. The male gaze, sad heaven, organizational/prophetic focus, sealing policy, and dancing with parables are some of the topics touched on in this wide-ranging conversation.

TW: Emotional Abuse and Physical Abuse Members of the Church don't talk much about polygamy, but isn't it time we did? After all, it continues to haunt our family trees, our church history, and many women's minds and hearts. Imagine getting married to a man only to find out he actually has a deep testimony of polygamy and insists you'll need to have one too. In Bonus Episode 221, Blakelee Ellis is joined by Alicia Owens, who shares her personal story of finding herself in that unthinkable situation, and everything that happened next. Please exercise self care—this is a harrowing conversation about one of the heaviest topics Latter-day Saint women carry. 

How much in the Church is still, in 2025, coming to us through the male lens? Pretty much all of it. Our scriptures, doctrine, ward boundaries, curriculum, conference talks, local leadership, and decisions are almost entirely by and/or about men. A women’s organization made and presided over by men is not really a women’s organization, is it? How could men ever describe or define women—our roles, attributes, or experiences—not as they see us, but as we actually are? In Episode 220, Cynthia and Susan wrap the season of zooming-out conversations by examining how the male gaze continues to shape and distort women's religious experience.

Linda Hamilton explains, “I spent my whole life believing that spirituality was in big things. Visions from heaven, angels, signs. We always say in Mormonism, don't wait for a sign. You won't get a sign; you won't get a miracle. We say that...and then we go up in testimony meeting and talk about some sign we received." She describes having spent much of her youth wondering how to get things like signs, or a surefire testimony. "And now," she says, "I've really embraced [that] spirituality is small things. It's yoga, it's going for a walk, it's my cats, it's going to a Taylor Swift concert and feeling in communion with thousands of women." In Episode 219, Linda joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about where she’s been, what she’s learned, and how her experiences inform the path she’s walking now.

Therapist C.A. Larson defines a high-demand religion as “a religious group that exerts significant control over its members' beliefs, behaviors, and daily lives. These groups often require strict adherence to doctrine, discourage independent thinking, and use social, psychological, or spiritual pressure to maintain compliance.” In Episode 218, C.A. joins Susan and Cynthia for an exploration of high-demand religions and the impact they can have on their members’ mental and spiritual health. Though individual experiences will vary, this discussion zooms out to highlight the significant overlap between characteristics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other churches that fit the high-demand criteria.

“We have direct access to light and knowledge and power, and we have the right—the divinely given right—to take that power, even if it says to us something different from how the authorities or power structures over us may be thinking. If it's the thing that's right and true for ourselves, we are benefited when we follow the dictates of our own conscience,” says Laurie Lee Hall. She joins Susan and Cynthia in Episode 217 for a conversation about trusting ourselves in the journey toward wholeness. Laurie Lee’s personal experiences bear out her advice: “We nourish [the Spirit] by hearing it, recognizing it, expressing internal appreciation for it, and acting upon it.”