Kerry Ann King Talks About Productivity, Art, and the Power of Intention

This episode of PM Talks is all about curiosity—how it drives us, how it gets suppressed, and how it intertwines with trust and judgment. Patrick Rhone and I dive deep into the forces that shape our thinking, from societal conditioning to personal experiences. As always, we take a thoughtful (and sometimes humorous) approach to unpacking these ideas. We explore why curiosity is often discouraged, how judgment can be a shortcut that stifles growth, and what it means to stay open-minded in an increasingly polarized world. Plus, we talk about journaling, trust, and even how sports fandoms can lead to unexpected insights. Key Discussion Points The paradox of curiosity—how it's both encouraged and discouraged in society Why judgment often wins over curiosity and how that impacts trust How breaking down projects fosters curiosity and prevents blind trust in assumptions The role of journaling in cultivating curiosity and letting go of judgment How social conditioning teaches efficiency over exploration (and why we need to push back) The concept of a Judgment Journal and a Book of Curiosities as tools for reflection How our kids reflect and challenge our own curiosities in unexpected ways We wrap up by discussing how staying curious can build stronger relationships and deeper understanding—whether it’s in politics, personal growth, or simply learning a new skill. Links Worth Exploring Patrick's book, "For You" Patrick’s Website Ted Lasso: The "darts" scene PM Talks S2E2: Alignment Sensible Defaults The Hartford Whalers goal song (for those who love hockey nostalgia) Mel Robbins’ “Let Them Theory” video (Note: She's not the originator of "Let Them" – Cassie Phillips is. Read more here.) Watch "The Social Dilemma" Take The Journaling Persona Assessment Check out ALL of the PM Talks episodes Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of A Productive Conversation, I sit down with Anne-Laure Le Cunff, neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and founder of Ness Labs, to discuss her new book Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World. Anne-Laure is known for blending science with practical strategies for thinking, learning, and working better—without burning out. We explore how small, low-risk experiments can lead to big changes, why curiosity is a powerful productivity tool, and how to break free from rigid goal-setting. Anne-Laure also shares how she applies scientific thinking to everyday decision-making, along with strategies for balancing structure and flexibility in personal growth. Key Discussion Points How Tiny Experiments challenges traditional goal-setting and promotes flexible, curiosity-driven progress. Why experimentation is a powerful approach to productivity, creativity, and decision-making. How small, low-risk experiments can help overcome perfectionism and fear of failure. The importance of intentional imperfection in balancing work, personal growth, and well-being. How curiosity can serve as a guide for making meaningful progress. Why journaling and self-reflection play a critical role in evaluating experiments. How to create sustainable productivity habits that adapt over time. This conversation is a great reminder that productivity isn’t just about efficiency—it’s about experimenting, learning, and growing in a way that works for you. Links Worth Exploring Connect with Anne-Laure: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram | YouTube Get the book we discuss: Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World Related Conversation: Episode 448: Tiago Forte talks about Building a Second Brain Related Blog Post: Why You Should Play Productivity “Small Ball” Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the years, I've had plenty of insightful conversations on this podcast, and one that still stands out is my discussion with Charlie Gilkey about his book Start Finishing. This Flashback Friday episode brings that conversation back, but with a twist—we start with an update from Charlie on what he's been up to since then. Charlie is someone who has spent years helping people make meaningful progress, and since our last chat, he's been busy launching Momentum, an app designed to reduce productivity friction, and shifting his Productive Flourishing platform over to Substack. In this episode, we pick up where we left off, exploring what’s changed in the way he approaches work, productivity, and team habits. Key Discussion Points What’s new with Charlie since Start Finishing—from launching an app to shifting his content to Substack. How Momentum helps people with chunking and sequencing work without unnecessary friction. Why project management in teams requires a different approach than solo work. The evolution from Start Finishing to Team Habits—and why team productivity is a whole new challenge. The struggle of balancing efficiency with real productivity, especially in hybrid work environments. Why mastery comes from finishing projects, not just starting them. How leaders need to redefine productivity outputs before demanding return-to-office mandates. Charlie and I have been in this space for a long time, and it’s always refreshing to catch up and exchange ideas. Whether you're new to his work or have followed Productive Flourishing for years, this episode has plenty of takeaways on making progress that actually matters. (Originally released September 2019) Links Worth Exploring Connect With Charlie/Productive Flourishing: Website | YouTube  | LinkedIn The Book We Discussed This Time: Team Habits: How Small Actions Lead to Extraordinary Results The Book We Discussed Last Time: Start Finishing: How to Go from Idea to Done Another Productive Conversation With Charlie: Watch On My YouTube Channel Related Conversation: Episode 127: A Focus on Flourishing with Charlie Gilkey Related Blog Post: How To Find Your Way Forward (And Finish) Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of A Productive Conversation, I sit down with Kerry Ann King, the founder and CEO of Eluminate Labs. Kerry Ann has spent more than a decade working inside the tech industry to promote human-centered approaches to well-being. She’s now leading the charge in decolonizing tech, creating inclusive solutions that put people first. Our conversation explores the transactional nature of productivity, the intersection of art and work, and how we can break free from extractive approaches to time management. Kerry Ann shares insights on how we can shift away from the pressure to do more and instead focus on creating real impact. We also dive into Fin, a positive productivity app from Eluminate Labs designed to help users better understand their productivity style. Key Discussion Points Why productivity shouldn’t be about extraction but about meaningful impact. The difference between transactional productivity and relational productivity. How the arts can teach us about persistence, focus, and creativity. The tension between structure and flexibility in how we measure progress. The role of intention in both personal and professional work. The story behind Fin and how it helps people uncover their productivity style. The importance of recognizing that different seasons of life require different productivity approaches. This conversation challenges conventional productivity narratives and offers a refreshing take on how we can work with intention rather than just efficiency. Links Worth Exploring Connect with Kerry Ann: Website | LinkedIn Check out Fin: Click here Rick Rubin's book: The Creative Act: A Way of Being Watch what John Cena's (other) watch said Related Conversation: Episode 511: Francesco D’Alessio Talks About Innovative Productivity Apps and Methodologies Related Blog Post: Focus On The App Within Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this Flashback Friday episode, I revisit my 2018 conversation with Dan Schawbel, a thought leader in workplace trends and human connection. We originally spoke about his book Back to Human: How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation, which explores how technology can be used as a bridge—not a barrier—to meaningful relationships. Since then, Dan has continued to shape conversations around workplace dynamics as Managing Partner at Workplace Intelligence, conducting research with major brands like Amazon and Deloitte. His podcast, 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel, has featured leaders such as Richard Branson and Condoleezza Rice, and his LinkedIn Learning courses have reached over 220,000 students. Key Discussion Points The central theme of Back to Human: using technology to enhance, not replace, human connection. Why leaders need to focus on human-first workplaces to improve engagement and productivity. The benefits of in-person interaction—why one face-to-face conversation is worth 34 emails. The Work Connectivity Index—a tool for assessing the strength of work relationships. How attending events alone can be a powerful networking tool. Strategies for leveraging technology to deepen relationships rather than create distractions. The impact of remote work on workplace connection and long-term employee retention. This conversation is a timely reminder that productivity isn’t just about efficiency—it’s about fostering meaningful relationships. As we navigate hybrid work environments and digital-first communication, Dan’s insights remain as relevant today as they were when we first published this episode. (Originally released November 2018) Links Worth Exploring Connect with Dan: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook Get the book we discuss: Back to Human: How Great Leaders Create Connection in the Age of Isolation Check out Dan's LinkedIn Learning classes (and check out mine too) Listen to Dan's podcast: 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel Read this: Law of Jante, a Scandinavian Code of Conduct Read: The Shallows: What the Internet is Doing to Our Brains by Nicholas Carr Read: How our 269 billion emails a day have made us miserable Check this out: Introduction to Back to Human Watch: The Back to Human Office Party [Comedy Sketch] | Related Conversation: Episode 363: Meaningful Online Connections with Misha Glouberman Related Blog Post: Five Proven Ways To Have a Better Work Day Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of A Productive Conversation, I sit down with Scott Doorley and Carissa Carter to explore the themes of their book, Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide for Designing a Thriving Future. As leaders at Stanford's d.school—Scott as Creative Director and Carissa as Academic Director—they've spent years shaping design education and innovation. Our discussion goes beyond traditional design thinking and into the complexities of decision-making, efficiency, and the balance between logic and emotion. We also explore the concept of Runaway Design, how the speed of technological change is shaping our world, and why embracing imperfection is essential for building a better future. Key Discussion Points What Runaway Design is and why we need to "unmake" it to build a better future. The importance of balancing emotion and logic when making decisions. Why uncertainty is inevitable—and how to design with it rather than against it. The role of pausing and curiosity in responding to challenges rather than reacting. How to find harmony in work, life, and productivity instead of seeking rigid balance. Why meaningful work should be measured by quality rather than quantity. The impact of AI, synthetic biology, and other evolving technologies on how we design the future. Scott and Carissa’s insights offer a thought-provoking look at how we navigate complexity, make better decisions, and create a world that is both innovative and intentional. Links Worth Exploring Connect with Scott: Website | LinkedIn Connect with Carissa: Website | LinkedIn Get the book we discussed: Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future Get Scott's book: Make Space: How to Set the Stage for Creative Collaboration Get Carissa's book: The Secret Language of Maps: How to Tell Visual Stories with Data Related Conversation: Episode 191: Designing Your Mindset with Andy Murphy Related Blog Post: Designs on Life Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fifteen years into her journey of simplicity, Courtney Carver continues to inspire people to do more with less. In this special Flashback Friday episode of A Productive Conversation, we revisit a past conversation from March 2020 about Project 333, her minimalist fashion challenge that has helped thousands streamline their wardrobes and their lives. But before that, we catch up on her latest book, Gentle: Rest More, Stress Less, and Live the Life You Actually Want. Courtney and I discuss the natural evolution of her work, moving from simplifying physical spaces to creating mental and emotional spaciousness. She shares the origin story of Gentle, which began with a 3 AM epiphany, and why she believes we need to rethink our relationship with time and space. Then, we dive into the practicalities of Project 333, its impact beyond decluttering closets, and how it can lead to greater peace and clarity in everyday life. Key Discussion Points How Gentle came to life and why simplicity isn’t just about stuff—it’s about creating space. The evolution of Courtney’s work from Soulful Simplicity to Project 333 to Gentle. The hidden emotional weight of clutter and how removing physical items can lighten mental loads. Why spaciousness—physical, mental, and emotional—is something we rarely talk about but deeply need. The common misconception that Project 333 is only for women and how anyone can benefit from a curated wardrobe. Decision fatigue, the power of limiting choices, and how a minimalist wardrobe can reduce daily stress. Practical tips for starting Project 333, dealing with sentimental items, and handling gifts that don’t align with a simpler lifestyle. Courtney's approach to simplicity is thoughtful, actionable, and, above all, gentle. If you've been feeling overwhelmed by too much—whether it’s in your schedule, your home, or your mind—this conversation will give you both practical steps and fresh perspectives on what truly matters. (Originally released March 2020) Links Worth Exploring Connect with Courtney: Website | Instagram | Facebook | Pinterest Get Courtney's book: Gentle: Rest More, Stress Less, and Live the Life You Actually Want Get Courtney's book: Project 333: The Minimalist Fashion Challenge That Proves Less Really is So Much More Weed Out the Clothes You Don’t Wear with a Simple Hanger Trick Everything You Need to Know About Project 333 Related Conversation: Episode 75: Soulful Simplicity with Courtney Carver Related Blog Post: Do You Want Fast Or Do You Want Forever? Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The latest episode of PM Talks is here, and this month, Patrick Rhone and I dive into alignment—a concept that is critical for making meaningful progress in both work and life. As we move beyond the fresh-start energy of January, February is often when things begin to fray. That’s why now is the perfect time to step back and examine whether our actions are truly aligned with our intentions. Alignment isn’t just about getting things done—it’s about ensuring that what we do actually moves us in the right direction. In this conversation, Patrick and I explore how alignment impacts productivity, why asking "why" is just as important as asking "what’s next?", and how attunement plays a role in adapting to life’s ever-changing landscape. Key Discussion Points Why alignment is more than just checking things off a to-do list—it’s about meaningful action. The missing piece in traditional productivity systems: aligning actions with deeper intentions. The difference between alignment (structured precision) and attunement (adaptive responsiveness). Why Making It All Work by David Allen is an underrated book on the "why" of productivity. How regularly questioning “why” can dramatically reduce overwhelm and improve decision-making. The tension between who we are, who we want to be, and what we actually do each day. The role of curiosity in navigating misalignment and adjusting course when needed. As we wrap up, we lay the groundwork for next month’s PM Talks on curiosity—a natural follow-up to this discussion. If you’ve ever felt out of sync with your goals or struggled to balance structure with flexibility, this episode will help you find clarity. Links Worth Exploring Patrick's book, "For You" Patrick’s Website An underrated David Allen book: Making It All Work Fish: A Tap Essay We didn't talk about this, but it does have to do with "why" Check out ALL of the PM Talks episodes Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this Flashback Friday episode of A Productive Conversation, I sit down with Joshua Becker to discuss his book Things That Matter: Overcoming Distraction to Pursue a More Meaningful Life. Joshua is known for his work on minimalism, but this book goes beyond decluttering physical possessions—it’s about eliminating the distractions that keep us from focusing on what truly matters. Our conversation explores the distractions that pull us away from meaning and purpose, including fear, technology, and the constant pursuit of more. We also discuss how intentionality and regular reflection can help us stay aligned with what matters most. If you've ever felt like you’re losing time to things that don’t truly fulfill you, this episode is for you. Key Discussion Points The biggest distractions that keep us from focusing on what truly matters. Why fear is one of the most powerful distractions—and how to overcome it. The role of technology in pulling our attention away from meaningful pursuits. Why the pursuit of more (money, possessions, status) often leads us further from fulfillment. How intentional reflection can keep us aligned with our values and priorities. The importance of capturing ideas without letting them overwhelm us. Why time feels like it moves faster as we age—and how to make the most of it. This conversation is packed with insights that will help you cut through the noise and focus on what truly matters. (Originally released April 2022) Links Worth Exploring Connect with Joshua: Website | YouTube | Facebook | Instagram Joshua’s Book: Things That Matter: Overcoming Distraction to Pursue a More Meaningful Life Check out Simplify Magazine: Click here for 50% off (Already a subscriber? Read my essay here.) Read Joshua's blog post: A New Day at Becoming Minimalist Check out The Hope Effect: Click here Related Conversation: Episode 91: The More of Less with Joshua Becker Related Blog Post: I Think Ivy Lee Was Right Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ideas shape our lives—sometimes without us even realizing it. In this episode, I sit down with Nathan J. Murphy, founder of Prepolitica and author of The Ideas That Rule Us, to explore how the ideas we inherit, adopt, and hold onto influence our decisions, beliefs, and behaviors. Nathan brings a deep, research-driven approach to understanding the power of ideas, questioning why we cling to certain concepts while rejecting others. We discuss how ideologies form, how words and terms evolve (and sometimes get corrupted), and how to critically assess which ideas serve us—and which ones hold us back. If you've ever wondered how to break free from ingrained thought patterns or how societal narratives shape your thinking, this conversation is for you. Key Discussion Points The origins of ideas and why they shape our decisions more than we realize How ideologies form—and why breaking free from them is so difficult The emotional ties we have to ideas and how they influence our choices How words and terms get co-opted and corrupted over time Why abstract concepts can create deep emotional reactions The role of cultural ideas in shaping identity, behavior, and even political systems Practical ways to question inherited ideas and redefine personal values Ideas don’t just exist in the abstract—they rule our lives in ways we often overlook. Nathan offers insightful strategies for identifying the ideas that no longer serve us and how to replace them with ones that align with who we want to become. Links Worth Exploring Connect with Nathan: Website | YouTube | Instagram Get the book we discuss: The Ideas That Rule Us: How Others’ Ideology, Political Thought and Societal Norms Rule Our Lives… and How to Change It Check out Prepolitica: Click here Related Conversation: Episode 235: Big Ideas with John Lamerton Related Blog Post: Killing Ideas Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can subscribe on Spotify and also on Apple Podcasts. Not using either of those to get your podcasts? Just click on this link and then paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices