Theology in the Raw

What if studying theology made you more amazed by God? My friend Lisa Harper joins me to talk about what happens when the things we learn about God change how we pray, how we parent, and how we love the people around us.Lisa’s book Theology for the Rest of Us is the jumping-off point for our conversation. We get into what we can know about God and what remains a mystery, how the Trinity shapes the way we think about community, and why the return of Jesus is a reason for hope. Lisa also tells the story of listening to her daughter gush about her first crush and thinking, “I remember when I talked about Jesus like that.”And yes, somehow a sausage biscuit gets thrown out a car window, and we end up talking about atonement. This is why I love talking theology with Lisa.Chapters0:00 Theology was meant to be lived0:40 Can studying God deepen our love for him?3:38 Lisa Harper and her chaotic dissertation defense14:57 Theology for the rest of us15:46 What we can know about God and what leaves us in awe24:00 The Trinity and why we need community32:30 Using theology to invite people in34:31 Finding hope in the return of Jesus40:05 What baptism meant to the early Christians46:42 “I remember when I talked about Jesus like that”51:42 When words become armor57:58 A sausage biscuit and a lesson in atonementSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Does the Bible support capitalism or socialism—or challenge both? What do Jesus’ teachings about wealth, the early church’s shared possessions, and the Old Testament’s economic laws mean for Christians today?Dr. Michael Rhodes joins Preston to explore what Scripture says about money, work, poverty, generosity, and economic justice. From Jubilee and debt forgiveness to the difference between earning a profit and maximizing it, Michael challenges us to consider how following Jesus should shape our entire economic life.We also wrestle with the role of government in helping the poor, minimum wage debates, the dangers of concentrated wealth and power, Michael’s critique of Elon Musk and the USAID cuts, and a question raised by When Helping Hurts: Can our generosity actually harm the people we want to help?Michael Rhodes holds a PhD from the University of Aberdeen and lectures in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College in New Zealand. His books include Just Discipleship, Practicing the King’s Economy (coauthored), and Reimagining Biblical Politics.CHAPTERS00:00 “I Am the Rich Person”00:36 Introducing Dr. Michael Rhodes01:44 How Should We Read the Bible on Economics?05:06 Jubilee, Land Ownership, and Care for the Poor08:57 Beyond Charity: A Soup Kitchen or a Potluck?10:49 Why Did the Early Christians Sell Their Possessions?15:23 Did Jesus Expect Everyone to Give Everything Away?18:43 The Bible’s Warnings About Wealth Apply to Us19:46 Should Biblical Economics Shape Government Policy?22:36 Daniel, Proverbs, and Challenging Those in Power27:35 Can We Trust the Government to Help the Poor?31:15 Minimum Wage: Moving Beyond Political Talking Points38:24 A Business Owner Rethinks Profit—and Encounters Bad Policy41:10 Biblical Principles for Work, Generosity, and Economic Life44:15 Food Aid, Debt Forgiveness, and Breaking Cycles of Poverty46:59 Capitalism, Socialism, or Something Else?49:12 Is Profit Maximization Against God’s Will?50:29 Billionaires, Government, and Concentrated Power52:57 Elon Musk, USAID, and Christian Responsibility55:54 When Party Loyalty Overrides Our Convictions57:38 When Helping Hurts: Can Generosity Do Harm?62:30 Reimagining Biblical PoliticsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is the gospel simply about having our sins forgiven so we can go to heaven? N.T. Wright joins Preston to explore how Isaiah changes the way we understand Jesus, salvation, and the announcement that “Jesus is Lord.”Drawing on his book, Into the Heart of Isaiah: The Meaning and Message of Isaiah 40–55, Tom walks us through the story of God’s return, the suffering servant, and the renewal of creation. Who is Isaiah’s servant: Israel, Jesus, or both? How does Isaiah help us understand John’s Gospel and Jesus’ parables? And why would the early Christian announcement of good news challenge the most powerful empire in the world?We also discuss biblical authorship and inspiration, the idols Christians can remain captive to, what Jesus’ authority means for earthly politics, and how to read the Old Testament without missing the bigger picture.N.T. Wright is a New Testament scholar, former Bishop of Durham, and senior research fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. His many books include Surprised by Hope, Simply Christian, and After You Believe.In our Extra Innings conversation, I ask Tom why he believes women can serve in every position of church leadership. Hear his response, including his reflections on Mary Magdalene and Phoebe, by joining the Theology in the Raw community:https://www.patreon.com/theologyintherawCHAPTERS00:00 Is our gospel missing something?00:46 Introducing N.T. Wright and the gospel in Isaiah03:18 Why a New Testament scholar studies Isaiah05:08 Why Isaiah 40–55 belongs together07:55 Who wrote Isaiah, and does it matter?09:30 Can God inspire editors?12:25 Exile, the temple, and God’s promised return16:07 Why God works through human beings17:00 Israel, the servant, and renewed creation19:19 Sponsor: Boll & Branch20:26 Is the suffering servant Israel or Jesus?24:18 How Isaiah shapes the New Testament26:32 A gospel bigger than escaping the world27:18 Isaiah behind John’s Gospel and Jesus’ parables31:12 What “good news” means in Isaiah33:25 Is the gospel more than forgiveness?34:10 Jesus, Caesar, and the power of the cross35:47 “Jesus is Lord” and turning from idols37:17 What does Jesus’ authority on earth look like?38:24 The politically subversive message of Jesus40:08 American polarization and the church41:28 How to read Isaiah without getting lost46:05 N.T. Wright, the Beatles, and Coldplay48:43 Advice for preaching IsaiahSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is the death penalty biblical? Should Christians support capital punishment—or does following Jesus lead us toward a different understanding of justice, mercy, and redemption?Shane Claiborne joins me to discuss what the Bible says about the death penalty and why we both changed our minds. We explore Old Testament laws, Jesus’ teaching on “an eye for an eye,” the early church’s response to violence, and whether Romans 13 justifies capital punishment.But this conversation goes beyond biblical interpretation. Shane shares stories from years of visiting people on death row, including encounters with people who were later exonerated, families of murder victims, and a former executioner. We wrestle with difficult questions: Can you be pro-life and support the death penalty? What about justice for victims? And what does it mean to believe that no one is beyond redemption?Shane is an author, activist, and co-founder of Red Letter Christians. His books include Executing Grace: How the Death Penalty Killed Jesus and Why It’s Killing Us and Rethinking Life.For my further thoughts on Romans 13 and the death penalty, join the Theology in the Raw community and watch or listen to Extra Innings:https://www.patreon.com/theologyintherawSubscribe for more curious conversations about difficult topics.CHAPTERS00:00 The Bible Belt is the death belt00:33 Why Christians are debating the death penalty05:27 Shane Claiborne: Why I changed my mind08:32 How the death penalty works in practice10:18 Who gets executed? Race, poverty, and geography12:05 The human cost of death row14:11 Can people on death row change?16:50 What does biblical justice look like?17:37 Don Johnson: Redemption on death row20:01 What about the victims?23:59 Forgiveness after the Charleston church shooting25:10 Christian leaders and the death penalty26:36 An invitation to pray on death row29:20 Does the Old Testament justify capital punishment?30:44 Jesus and “an eye for an eye”31:54 The early church on killing and state violence35:38 Why Christians still defend the death penalty37:07 Reading Old Testament laws as Christians39:22 Wrongful convictions and trusting the state41:10 Race, wealth, and unequal justice43:56 A Jewish perspective on the death penalty44:48 Does Romans 13 support the death penalty?47:50 The Reformation and the power of the state49:58 Wrestling with a change of mind51:12 Firing squads and the toll on executioners52:54 Forgiveness, consequences, and the gospel53:37 Shane’s books and further resourcesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Have we lost something in communion? Is the Lord’s Supper simply a symbol that reminds us of Jesus’ death, or is something more happening when we receive the bread and wine?Anglican priest Hannah Miller King joins Preston to explore the Eucharist and its role in spiritual formation. They discuss Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican understandings of Christ’s presence, why communion has become an afterthought in some churches, and whether we should expect to feel anything when we take it.Drawing from her book, Feasting on Hope: How God Sets a Table in the Wilderness, Hannah shares how communion has shaped her experience of grief, belonging, and healing. They also discuss her experience as a female priest and how Christians can remain in fellowship while disagreeing about women in church leadership.In Extra Innings, Preston asks Hannah why some evangelicals are drawn to Anglican, Catholic, and Orthodox churches. Hear her own journey and the extended conversation by joining the TITR community: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintherawCHAPTERS00:00 Is communion more than an object lesson?00:46 Have we lost something in communion?04:35 Introducing Hannah Miller King05:01 Different Christian views of the Eucharist07:33 The early church, Luther, and Calvin10:55 What can Christians agree on about communion?13:34 Wasn’t the Lord’s Supper an actual meal?17:03 Sponsors19:09 Has communion become an afterthought?20:42 Making the table central to worship24:05 Wine, grape juice, and why the elements matter26:24 Communion, grief, and those we’ve lost29:43 What if I don’t feel anything?33:25 Embodiment, trauma, and healing37:58 Lament and the hope of resurrection39:06 Bringing our suffering to the table41:30 Teaching a richer understanding of communion43:23 Being a female Anglican priest47:25 Disagreeing about women’s ordination49:41 Unity without agreeing on everything51:57 Why male-only bishops?55:15 Faith when the miracle doesn’t comeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Are evangelicals really defined by Donald Trump, culture wars, and the pursuit of political power? Or are we missing a much bigger picture?Bonnie Kristian joins Preston to discuss her book, In Defense of Evangelicalism: A Response to Its Cultured Despisers. A journalist and deputy editor at Christianity Today, Bonnie offers a defense of evangelicalism while openly criticizing its failures and explaining why she isn’t a Trump supporter.We explore what “evangelical” actually means, the accusations leveled against the movement, and why Bonnie believes some critiques overlook the ordinary faithfulness of millions of Christians. We also discuss evangelical support for Trump, what voting statistics can and can’t tell us, and the difference between voting for a candidate and embracing everything that candidate represents.The conversation also tackles Christian nationalism, the line between voting your values and imposing your beliefs, evangelical attitudes toward war, and Bonnie’s disagreements with Jesus and John Wayne. Can we take evangelical hypocrisy seriously without reducing an entire movement to its worst examples? And can we criticize someone’s politics without dismissing their faith?CHAPTERS00:00 Critiquing politics without condemning people00:30 Are evangelicals really that bad?03:50 Introducing Bonnie Kristian06:45 What does “evangelical” actually mean?10:31 Why hesitate to call yourself evangelical?11:41 Five accusations against evangelicalism16:35 Are evangelical faith and Republican politics inseparable?18:24 Putting the “81 percent” statistic in context20:18 Why evangelicals vote for Trump24:13 Culture wars, political power, and voting your values27:12 When does voting your faith become Christian nationalism?33:28 Defending evangelicals without supporting Trump35:45 War, conscience, and rejecting both parties39:28 Why do evangelicals support war?43:48 Torture, the Golden Rule, and the influence of faith45:58 Pushback on the book and Jesus and John Wayne50:42 Why Bonnie won’t denounce evangelical Trump voters53:36 Criticism, reform, and contempt for evangelicals54:40 Engaging critics and knowing when to step awaySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does faith look like when healing doesn’t come? And how can churches move beyond welcoming people with disabilities to creating genuine belonging? Cameron and Annie Horner join Preston to explore disability, marriage, suffering, and what the church misses when disabled voices are sidelined.Cameron and Annie share how they met at the Exiles in Babylon conference and how vulnerability shaped their relationship. Together, they challenge assumptions about disability and offer practical ways churches can remove barriers to worship, community, and leadership. Cameron Horner is a quadriplegic pastor, speaker, and ministry leader who became paralyzed from the chest down at age 18 after a diving accident. Annie Horner is a mental health therapist with Living Whole Hearted, a clinic based in Portland, Oregon. Together, they lead Accessible Grace, equipping churches to move beyond inclusion to genuine belonging for people with disabilities.Join the Theology in the Raw community for bonus content and conversations: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintherawCHAPTERS 00:00 Faith when healing doesn’t come 00:45 Why disability belongs in the church conversation 03:36 Meet Cameron and Annie Horner 04:22 A love story that started at Exiles in Babylon 07:18 Annie’s story: abuse, faith, and finding hope 11:40 From Ireland to a marriage proposal 12:47 Dating, disability, and assumptions about relationships 16:37 Building a relationship on what matters 19:33 Sponsor: Western Seminary 20:30 What people misunderstand about their marriage 21:24 Purity culture and the “ideal spouse” checklist 24:06 How vulnerability made room for love 26:46 When disability happens during a marriage 29:59 Disability and the church: where do we start? 32:08 Accessibility beyond ramps and parking spaces 35:21 Seeing disability as part of the body’s diversity 38:48 How church culture can exclude families 40:59 Who gets to lead in our churches? 43:12 Cameron’s calling to pastor and teach 46:03 Moses, disability, and God’s accommodation 48:11 “Stand if you’re able”: why language matters 52:31 Disability theology and the resurrected Jesus 56:18 How should we talk about disability? 58:29 A first step for church leaders: listen 61:09 What disability teaches us about being human 62:48 Celebrating faithfulness without a miraculous ending 65:18 Cameron and Preston’s marathon rivalrySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When does church leadership become spiritual manipulation? And how do you disagree with a pastor who says, “God told me”? Preston talks with New Testament scholar Joshua W. Jipp about how even well-meaning Christian leaders can cross the line from serving people to controlling them.Drawing on his book, How (Not) to Be a Tyrant, Josh explores what the Bible’s worst rulers reveal about power, ambition, and the temptation to use God’s authority to advance our own agendas. We discuss why charisma and results aren’t enough to identify a healthy leader, how fear can become a tool of control, and what makes Jesus’ approach to leadership radically different.We also wrestle with church leadership structures, Paul’s use of authority, Romans 13 and Revelation 13, and when Christians should submit, push back, or leave. Along the way, we consider the faithful pastors whose humility and service rarely make the headlines.Joshua W. Jipp (PhD, Emory University) is associate professor of New Testament at the University of Notre Dame. He is the author of several books, including his most recent book, How (Not) to Be a Tyrant: Ten Lessons on Life and Leadership from the Bible’s Worst Rulers (Brazos Press).CHAPTERS00:00 When spiritual authority becomes control00:39 Introducing Joshua W. Jipp02:19 Why study the Bible’s worst rulers?07:04 Leadership and power throughout the Bible09:55 Did God want Israel to have a king?13:32 Sponsors15:53 The temptation facing well-meaning leaders17:47 Using God to advance a leader’s agenda18:59 Why success and charisma aren’t enough23:16 Does the Bible prescribe a church leadership structure?28:29 How can a servant leader exercise authority?34:58 Subtle warning signs of controlling leadership37:57 When disagreeing with a leader means disagreeing with God39:46 Can other leaders genuinely push back?40:59 How fear becomes a tool of control42:18 Submitting to bad rulers: Romans 13 and Revelation 1347:30 When should you push back on church leadership?51:13 The faithful pastors who don’t make headlinesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Are Christians being fair in how we understand Islam? Palestinian Christian scholar Dr. Daniel Bannoura joins Preston Sprinkle to explore Islam and Christianity, religious violence, what the Quran says about Jesus, and the treatment of women.In the fourth and final episode of our Understanding Islam series, Daniel helps me process my conversations with Javad Hashmi, Gabriel Said Reynolds, and Fariza Gulomikova, including some of the pushback the series received.Daniel grew up in the West Bank and earned his PhD in Islamic Studies at Notre Dame, focusing on the biblical subtext of the Qur’an. We discuss the relationship between the Quran and Hadith, Islamic teachings about Jesus and the Trinity, and Daniel’s interpretation of the Quran’s passage on the crucifixion.We also wrestle with Christianity’s own history of justifying violence and how politics, culture, and education shape Muslim communities. And I press Daniel on whether Christianity and Islam offer distinct visions for the treatment of women.It’s a challenging conversation about real theological differences, our own assumptions, and what it means to love our Muslim neighbors faithfully.Watch or listen to Extra Innings at https://patreon.com/theologyintheraw, where Daniel and I tackle your questions: Is Islam animated by dark spiritual forces? Is it a Christian heresy or a separate religion? What can Christians learn from Muslims? And how should we respond to fears about Sharia law in America?CHAPTERS00:00 A Palestinian Christian’s experience of violence00:31 Understanding Islam: The series finale02:22 Meet Dr. Daniel Bannoura05:13 Learning to love Muslim neighbors08:31 Reflecting on the Islam series12:31 Was Javad Hashmi representative of Islam?18:22 The Quran, Hadith, and Islamic scholarship24:22 What does Islam teach about Jesus?28:27 The Quran and the Trinity30:08 Does the Quran deny Jesus’ crucifixion?35:43 How religious traditions develop38:14 Why focus on violence and women?40:27 Comparing Christian and Muslim violence44:30 Muslim diversity beyond the stereotypes45:43 Colonialism, politics, and religious extremism48:37 Women, culture, and education52:08 Do Christianity and Islam treat women differently?55:00 Jesus’ countercultural treatment of women59:41 Your questions answered in Extra InningsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Watch our Extra Innings conversation on Patreon, where John Mark Comer shares his evolving views on women in church leadership and the questions he’s still wrestling with: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintherawWhat is constant noise doing to our souls? And why can being alone with God feel so uncomfortable?John Mark Comer joins Preston to discuss his latest book, Into the Quiet: Following Jesus in a World of Noise. We explore how noise affects our capacity to love God and others, what surfaced during John Mark’s 21-day solitude retreat, and why silence often brings us face-to-face with the pain we’ve been avoiding.John Mark also shares why quiet doesn’t come naturally to him, how to practice solitude within the demands of everyday life, the difference between solitude and loneliness, and the surprising structure of the small church he helps pastor.John Mark Comer is the New York Times bestselling author of eight books, including Practicing the Way, which was named the 2025 Christian Book of the Year by the ECPA, and The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, which has sold more than a million copies and been translated into over 20 languages. His latest book is Into the Quiet: Following Jesus in a World of Noise, which forms the basis of our conversation. John Mark is a pastor and the founder of Practicing the Way, an organization working to see the renewal of apprenticeship to Jesus in our time.CHAPTERS00:00 Why solitude is so hard00:49 Introducing John Mark Comer03:57 Running, ministry, and friendship07:24 Why your body matters for spiritual formation10:27 Writing theology that people can understand12:53 Noise is a threat to our souls13:48 Sponsors15:45 How noise affects our bodies and relationships21:47 John Mark’s 21-day solitude retreat24:32 What we learn when distractions are stripped away27:36 Jesus’ rhythm of retreat and return30:49 Becoming a person of quiet in an anxious world34:45 Solitude for busy people and extroverts38:39 Finding quiet within the life you actually have42:08 The difference between solitude and loneliness44:56 Inside John Mark’s small church community47:51 Extra Innings: Women in church leadershipSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.