113: What Did Esalen Ever Do for Massage? (with Peggy & Lucia Horan)

🎙️This episode of the Thinking Practitioner podcast features an in-depth interview with Tom Myers, author of the influential book Anatomy Trains. Host Til Luchau and Whitney Lowe discuss Tom's bodywork background, and how his goal of providing a holistic framework for understanding the body's fascial connections lead to the development of his "Anatomy Trains" concept. They explore Ida Rolf's legacy and influence on developing a model of structural integration, and Tom shares his evolving views on topics like exercise, fascia, and the potential for sustainable posture changes. The interview provides fascinating perspectives on the history and future of bodywork models, and listeners will enjoy learning about Tom's current projects (as well as Til Luchau's contributions to his upcoming Anatomy Trains summer program). 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Key Points in the Podcast [0:00-10:00] - Til Luchau interviews Tom Myers about his background and experience in bodywork. They discuss Tom's origins in the field and how he was influenced by teachers like Ida Rolf. [10:00-20:00] - Tom explains the development of the "Anatomy Trains" concept and how it provided a holistic framework for understanding fascial connections. He shares Ida Rolf's impact on developing structural integration models. [20:00-30:00] - The conversation explores evolving views on exercise, fascia, and the potential for sustainable posture changes. Tom discusses insights from his long career in hands-on practice. [30:00-40:00] - Whitney Lowe asks questions about fascial contractility and the role of myofibroblasts. Tom provides perspectives on fascia and potential causes of shortening. [40:00-50:00] - Tom's views on exercise evolution are discussed, along with the importance of movement education. He emphasizes different types of fascial elasticity. [50:00-1:00:00] - The importance of the fascial system, current projects, and upcoming teaching opportunities are covered. The podcast concludes with thanks to sponsor Books of Discovery. Resources: Tom Myers' Anatomy Trains site Til Luchau at Anatomy Trains Summer Program Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.comcheatsheet About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️Two new studies are re-opening the age-old discussion about whether massage is safe with clients with cancer. Til and Whitney review the new evidence, the implications, and discuss best practices with expert guests Cathy Ryan and Erika Slocum. 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Key Points in the Podcast Introduction to The Thinking Practitioner Podcast (00:00-01:30) The history of recommendations about massage and cancer (01:30-07:30) The benefits of massage therapy for people with cancer (07:30-12:30) The possible effects of massage on tumor sites (12:30-17:49) Discussing Freidl study on massage and tumor cells migration (17:49-23:00) Discussing Karda study on massage and osteosarcoma progression (23:00-30:00) Red flags and referrals for potential cancer screening (30:00-37:00) The importance of communication and partnership with clients (37:00-41:00) Resources for further information on massage and cancer (41:00-45:00) Closing remarks and contact information for the guests (45:00-47:30) Resources: [Dr. Peter Friedl's study is pending publication, but his 2016 presentation on this topic is at 9:45 here] Karda, I.W.A.M., Wan Ismail, W.F. & Kamal, A.F. Massage manipulation and progression of osteosarcoma, does it really correlate: a combination of prospective and retrospective cohort study. Sci Rep 13, 18541 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-023-45808-7 https://rdcu.be/dCD6i  Guest recommendations: Training and support: Healwell, Tracy Walton, Gayle MacDonald Massage therapy for post-mastectomy, top surgery & oncology support: Eryn Price RMT S4OM: Society for Oncology Massage Book: Oncology Massage – An Integrative Approach to Cancer Care - Janet Penny & Rebecca Sturgeon Article: Could Massage Therapy Promote CANCER Metastasis? Cathy Ryan: [email protected] Ericka Slocum: [email protected]  Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.comcheatsheet About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️When we treat our client’s “problems,” are we really helping them? Or, would a more fundamental reframe yield better results? How do we help our clients (and ourselves) shift the usual viewpoints about pain, injury, and recovery? Whitney and Til catch up with physiotherapist and chiropractor Greg Lehman about the evolution of his influential “Reconciling Biomechanics with Pain Science” course, and his thinking on specifics like SI Joint pain, “flat arches,” and more. 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Key Points in the Podcast - Introduction to The Thinking Practitioner Podcast (0:00)- Opening Sponsor: ABMP (1:00)- Introduction of Greg Lehman (2:00)- Greg's background and expertise (3:00)- Greg's approach to reading and translating research (5:00)- The concept of Movement Optimism (7:00)- Shifting from a pessimistic view of the body to a more optimistic view (9:00)- Explaining pain to patients (11:00)- The importance of building healthy systems and ecosystems (13:00)- The fundamentals of treating people with pain (15:00)- The role of faulty firing patterns in muscles (17:00)- The concept of alignment and its importance (19:00)- The role of alignment in pain and function (21:00)- The debate between different perspectives in the field (23:00)- The importance of individualized care and patient-centered approaches (25:00)- The role of biomechanics in treating pain (27:00)- The influence of research on clinical practice (29:00)- The overselling of the need to stay updated on research (31:00)- The importance of fundamentals and common threads in treatment (33:00)- Greg's eBook "Recovery Strategies" (35:00)- Greg's views on flat feet and when they matter (37:00)- The limitations of isolating variables in research (39:00)- The need for humility and openness in the field (41:00)- Greg's upcoming teaching schedule and website (43:00)- Conclusion and thanks (45:00) Resources: Greg Lehman’s free workbook and site Greg’s Movement Optimism podcast Greg’s osteoarthritis site  Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.comcheatsheet About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️It's no exaggeration to say that in the history of massage and bodywork, there was "before Esalen," and "after Esalen." Til & Whitney talk to Peggy Horan (senior Esalen Massage teacher) and her daughter Lucia (who grew up at Esalen) about their stories, the Esalen Institute, and its influence on how massage and bodywork are practiced and taught today. 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Key Points in the Podcast - Introduction and background on Esalen Institute (0:00-5:30) - Peggy Horan's experience and role at Esalen (5:30-12:00) - Lucia's experience and role at Esalen (12:00-18:00) - The influence of Esalen on the massage and bodywork field (18:00-23:00) - Changes in the practice of Esalen Massage over time (23:00-28:00) - The importance of boundaries and trauma-informed practices in massage (28:00-34:00) - The cultural relevance of Esalen Massage in the digital age (34:00-38:00) - The future of Esalen Massage and its impact on personal development (38:00-42:00) - Peggy Horan and Lucia Drummond's contact information (42:00-43:00) - Closing remarks and sponsor information (43:00-48:00) Resources: Peggy Horan's site Lucia Horan's site Video: Esalen's Massage Legacy: Peggy Horan Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.comcheatsheet About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️ Ten years ago, massage therapist Rajam Roose was curious about pain science. Seeing a need for an interdisciplinary conference focusing on the clinical applications of this emerging field, and took a leap and created what has become a regular event. The San Diego Pain Summit has continued to grow, and gets outstanding reviews from the many people, from so many different fields, that it brings together each year. 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Key Points in the Podcast Introduction and background of Rajam Roose (0:00-4:00) How Rajam Roose started the San Diego Pain Summit (4:00-9:00) The focus of the San Diego Pain Summit on topics not typically covered in other conferences (9:00-14:00) The interdisciplinary nature of the summit and the importance of collaboration between different professions (14:00-19:00) Challenges faced by the summit, including limited resources and the need for nonprofit status (19:00-25:00) The motivation behind organizing the summit and the passion for sharing important information (25:00-29:00) The availability of past summit talks on the San Diego Pain Summit YouTube channel (29:00-32:00) The upcoming San Diego Pain Summit in March 2024 and the changes in format (32:00-36:00) Trends and changes in pain science education observed through the summit (36:00-40:00) How to find more information about the San Diego Pain Summit (40:00-43:00) Closing remarks and contact information (43:00-46:00) Resources: San Diego Pain Summit SDPS YouTube Channel  Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.comcheatsheet About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️Twelve years ago, Lorimer Moseley’s TEDx talk “Why Things Hurt” helped to catalyze profound changes in how pain is conceptualized, in our field and in many others. If we think about pain as protection, rather than as damage, it changes how we explain the improvements we see in hands-on work. Professor Moseley joins Til and Whitney to update us on his thinking, and to offer bodyworks and massage therapists practical advice on working with our clients with pain.🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage   Key Points in the Podcast Introduction to The Thinking Practitioner Podcast (0:00)   Sponsorship by Books of Discovery (1:30) Introduction of Lorimer Moseley (3:00)  Lorimer Moseley's TEDx talk and its impact (6:00) Description of pain to those experiencing chronic pain (9:00) Historical context of pain education (13:00) Three historical phases of pain education evolution:  (15:30) ancient pain education,  old school pain education, and  current pain science education   Four essential pain facts: (19:30) pain protects us and promotes healing,  persistent pain is also a protective function,  many factors can influence pain, and  therefore, there are many ways to reduce pain and recover.  Challenges of explaining complex concepts in a short period of time (26:00) Importance of validation and empathy in pain education (30:30) Role of optimism and encouragement in pain education (34:30) Lorimer Moseley's upcoming courses in North America (39:00) Sponsorship by ABMP (42:00) Closing remarks and contact information (43:30) Resources: “Why Things Hurt” TEDx talk Pain Matters podcast Lorimer Moseley’s North American tour: noigroup.com Lorimer Moseley’s charity: painrevolution.org Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.comcheatsheet About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️ Anatomist extraordinaire Gil Hedley stops by to talk with Til and Whitney about nerves, dissection, bodywork, and what hands-on therapists can learn from his most recent project, the Nerve Tour. 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Topics: 0:00 - Introduction to The Thinking Practitioner Podcast 0:30 - Introduction of hosts Whitney Lowe and Til Luchau and sponsor ABMP 1:57 - Introduction of guest Gil Hedley and discussion of his nerve tour 7:00 - Gil Hedley's background and introduction to integral anatomy 12:00 - The importance of understanding the nervous system in manual therapy 16:00 - The unique aspects of dissecting nerve tissues 20:00 - The impact of nerve tissues on texture and pain in the body 24:00 - The importance of the state of the practitioner when working with nerve tissues 28:00 - The personal connection to the donors in Gil Hedley's projects 34:00 - The future of Gil Hedley's nerve project and availability of the content 38:00 - Gil Hedley's upcoming tour schedule and accessibility of his content 43:00 - Conclusion and thanks to sponsor Books of Discovery 45:00 - Closing remarks and contact information for hosts and guest Whitney Lowe Resources: Gil Hedley's site Gil Hedley's Youtube channel Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

🎙️ Join us as we revisit the key moments of The Thinking Practitioner’s fourth season. This year, our esteemed guests shared both the latest research, and historical insights into the legacies that continue to shape our field. A heartfelt thanks to our amazing guests, sponsors, and to you, our audience—your support continues to drive the Thinking Practitioner community. Subscribe now for a condensed dose of practical wisdom and discerning reflection. 🔍🗣️👥🔊 Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Resources: Whitney & Til’s Season 4 Favorites: 84: Working with Veterans (with Nicole Miller) 87: Shared Decision Making (with Walt Fritz) 92: The Art of a Good Question (with Whitney Lowe & Til Luchau) 96: Curious Souls (with Aaron Alexander & Sue Hitzmann) 97: Back At It: Back Pain Revisited (with Stuart McGill) 99: Wait, What? Fascial Stiffness & Pain (with Robert Schleip) 103: Where the Profession Is Now (with Les Sweeney) 108: Trauma & Bodywork (with Peter Levine) Your favorites (top downloads of all time): 69: Back Pain, Stiffness & Fascia (with Stuart McGill) 79: Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos (with Tina Wang) 71: Fascia & Pain: What We Know (with Helene Langevin) 56: Working with Rib Issues (with Til Luchau & Whitney Lowe) 70: Stretching: Would Everyone Just Relax? (with Jules Mitchell) Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Legendary trauma pioneer Peter Levine PhD talks with Til Luchau about how bodyworkers might recognize trauma, and, how can they be most helpful with its effects. Along the way, Dr Levine reflects on topics such as his own training with Ida Rolf (the originator of Rolfing® Structural Integration), scope of practice considerations for bodyworkers, self-care and much more. Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Topics: - Introduction to The Thinking Practitioner Podcast (0:00) - Sponsorship by ABMP (1:20) - Sponsorship by Advanced Trainings (2:40) - Introduction of Dr. Peter Levine (3:30) - Dr. Levine's background and work in somatic experiencing (4:30) - The role of the nervous system in trauma (7:00) - The importance of the vagus nerve in trauma response (9:30) - The difference between healed and unhealed trauma (13:00) - How bodyworkers can recognize and address trauma in their clients (15:30) - The importance of creating safety and connection in the therapeutic relationship (19:00) - The role of bodyworkers in addressing trauma (22:00) - The importance of self-care for healthcare professionals working with trauma (26:00) - The role of ritual and ceremony in healing trauma (30:00) - The impact of trauma on the world and the importance of addressing it (35:00) - Resources for learning more about trauma and somatic experiencing (38:00) - Closing remarks and sponsorships (40:00) Resources: Til's Facebook post: If you could ask Peter Levine anything... Peter Levine's Somatic Experiencing® site Preorder Peter Levine's upcoming An Autobiography of Trauma: A Healing Journey Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)

Baker's cysts, the most common cyst behind the knee, affect about 20% of all people. When painful, they can limit mobility and impact quality of life. In this episode, Til interviews Whitney about what Baker’s cysts are, what we as hands-on therapists can do about them, and how we can broaden the lens about the benefits of our work.  Watch the video and get the full transcript of their conversation on Til or Whitney's sites:  Til Luchau’s Advanced-Trainings.com  Whitney Lowe’s Academy of Clinical Massage Resources: Nanduri A, Stead TS, Kupsaw GE, Deleon J, Ganti L. Baker ’ s Cyst Case Presentation. 2021;13(12). doi:10.7759/cureus.20403 Burger C. Baker’s cyst. Chirurg. 1999;70(5):611-612. doi:10.1016/s2255-4971(15)30317-7 Afandiyeva MA, Janbachishov QS. Baker’s cyst. Azerbaijan Med J. 2004;7(1):125-127. doi:10.1177/1941738113520130 Sponsor Offers: Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout at booksofdiscovery.com. ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.  Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. About Whitney Lowe  |  About Til Luchau  |  Email Us: [email protected] (The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.)