The Persuasion Game

“People don’t romanticise what a headache or body pain is. Understanding what moments are truly embedded in consumers’ routines, and showing up with authenticity, is such a crucial thing in our strategy.” In this special edition of The Persuasion Game, recorded in New York, Forge’s Chief Growth Officer, Eleanor Lloyd Malcom, is joined by two global brand leaders for a conversation about the power of human rituals as a driver of brand growth. Our guests are Renato Camera, Vice President and Global Brand Lead for Advil at Haleon, and Rafael Ribeiro, Global Category Vice President for Plant-Based at Danone. We discuss how the economic environment is squeezing mainstream brands, the challenge of private labels, how GLP-1 is reshaping consumer health behaviours, and the pressure to stay culturally relevant at a global scale. Much of it comes down to understanding the rituals consumers already have and how that can unlock a much richer emotional role for brands than functional benefits alone.  Rafael and Renato also reflect on what it takes to lead in transformative times and how to build a consistent global brand without losing local agility. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: forgemsq.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (06:48) The K-shaped Economy (12:34) Rituals as Growth Strategy (19:56) GLP-1 Tailwinds (23:00) New Competitors and Category Reframes (26:01) Scaling Brands with Agility (29:32) Leadership Rituals

“It’s a challenge in any industry to break the category norms.  But we did it. We did it with Hailey and with Claudia, and then we did it in many other iterations.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, Adam is joined by Leanne Fremar, Global Chief Brand Officer at JPMorganChase. Since 2018, Leanne has been shaping the strategy and identity of both Chase and J.P. Morgan across advertising, experiential and everything in between. Before that, she led Starbucks' Global Brand Studio, ran the women's business at Under Armour, where she won Ad Age's Marketer of the Year for the “I Will What I Want" campaign, and earlier in her career cut her teeth in luxury fashion at Theory, Gucci, and Polo Ralph Lauren. Leanne says putting the consumer at the heart of everything she does has been the key to her success, as well as an ability to anticipate where they are heading before the rest of the market catches up.  That instinct is what took her to JPMorganChase, where she saw an industry ripe for the kind of cultural, emotional and narrative devices she had spent years mastering in fashion and retail. She takes us through the positioning of Chase Sapphire Reserve as a luxury brand, including the now iconic campaign with Hailey Bieber and Claudia Schiffer, and she talks about how that same rule-breaking instinct shapes how JPMorganChase shows up in culture more broadly, always with the goal of delivering genuine value to consumers rather than simply buying presence. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: forgemsq.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction  (06:17) Building a Connected Brand (13:45) Showing Up in Culture (18:30) AI and Human Judgment (23:33) Marketing to B2B Audiences (28:57) LA Olympics

“In organisations where everybody sees themselves as a brand-builder and has a role to play, my experience is, it leads to dramatically different outcomes.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, Adam is joined by Andrew Geoghegan, an experienced global CMO whose career spans nearly two decades at Diageo as well as senior roles at PepsiCo, William Grant & Sons, and PZ Cussons. Andrew makes the case that brand building can be an engine for growth in an era of transformative times that we are living in. We explore what it really means for everyone in an organisation to be a brand builder, why marketing should champion the process rather than own it, and his view on why some brand building exercises fail. He also shares his perspective on the current state of marketing capability, and why leading with humility is the key to success. Andrew's work on marketing effectiveness won him a Gold at the IPA Effectiveness Awards, and he has now distilled everything he knows into a book: “Effective Brand Building”. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:07) Organisational Alignment Matters (11:53) Everyone Builds Brands (17:02) Capability Training Gaps (22:29) Leadership In Chaos (28:28) Strategy As a Blueprint

“Brilliant leadership is acknowledging that you don't have all the answers, and the answers can come from anywhere and anyone.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game, Adam is once again joined by Elleanor Lloyd Malcolm, Forge’s Chief Growth Officer, to reflect further on the panel she hosted in Cannes about growth in transformative times. This time the focus is on leadership. What does it actually take to lead a brand through transformation, and how are some of the world's most ambitious marketing leaders showing up to do it? We hear from three exceptional leaders: Kathryn Swallow, Head of OTC at Haleon, Nicole German, Global CMO, Corporate & Institutional Banking at HSBC, and friend of the podcast Nathalia Amadeu, Global Brand Director for Vaseline at Unilever. They explore how the CMO role is evolving, how to go about building the marketing function’s credibility inside a business, and how surrendering control, and navigating ambiguity with confidence, can lead to exceptional results. This is part two of The Persuasion Game's Cannes special. If you haven't heard part one yet, you can find it by searching for ‘The Persuasion Game’ wherever you get your podcasts.  Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:51) From CMO to CGO (08:48) Authenticity Builds Trust (15:52) Leading Through Change (19:46) Female Leadership Reflections

“There is a new normal of pace and agility. Businesses are having to shift how they set themselves up to win in this very fast-moving world.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, Adam is joined by Eleanor Lloyd Malcolm, Forge’s Chief Growth Officer, to reflect on the panel she hosted in Cannes about growth in transformative times. We hear from three exceptional leaders: Kathryn Swallow, Head of OTC at Haleon, Nicole German, Global CMO, Corporate & Institutional Banking at HSBC, and friend of the podcast Nathalia Amadeu, Global Brand Director for Vaseline at Unilever. We tackle four themes under the banner of creating value in transformative times: why the fundamentals matter more than ever, how to create genuine consumer relevance beyond category convention, the shift from brand ownership to stewardship, and why the kind of cultural and consumer intimacy that truly drives competitive advantage is something no AI can replicate. This is part one or our reflections - part two, covering leadership in transformative times, is coming soon. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (05:46) Building Resilience (11:07) Creating Consumer Relevance (14:14) Differentiation Beyond Table Stakes (16:17) Stewardship Not Ownership (24:03) Global Ideas Local Heart

"Most organisations don't need more data. What they need is a wider, more dynamic view of where demand is forming. And they need to be looking in the right places to find it." In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we're joined by Karl Miley, co-founder of Forge and leader of its Dynamic Demand practice.  Karl has spent years helping some of the world's biggest brands understand where consumer demand is heading, and why so many of them are looking in the wrong direction. This episode is about why brand confidence in decision-making has never felt lower, how static demand frameworks are partly to blame, and why a new approach is needed. Karl takes us through four forces reshaping demand: cultural and behavioural shifts, the arrival of new entrants, technology-driven changes in discovery and behaviour, and macro shocks that rewrite consumer priorities overnight. If you work in identifying demand spaces, this episode isn’t to be missed. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:41) Signals Beyond Trackers (10:06) Stanley And Diet Coke (17:08) Spotting Early Signals (25:53) Olipop (39:50) Best Practice Dynamic System

“Transparency builds credibility. Hyper-transparency builds trust.” As Gen Z continue their inevitable march towards being the dominant economic power, the way brands market themselves is going to have to shift dramatically. As David Cousino puts it, for them “ transparency directly influences where they're going to spend. If companies don't get their head around this cohort, they're going to be in for a really rough couple of decades.” In this episode, David explains what is meant by hyper-transparency, why honesty increasingly beats perfection, and the crucial role insights teams have to play as we move into this new era. David is Global Head of Business Intelligence and Insight at James Hardie, and has previously held senior roles at AB InBev and Unilever. This topic isn’t one that can be kicked into the long grass any longer, it’s forecast Gen Z will surpass millennials in terms of spending power in less than a decade. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:23) Tech and Gen Z Shift (06:37) New Front Lines of Trust (13:38) Crisis Transparency Playbook (20:26) Insights Teams as Radar

“Relevance builds brands. Control just increases the risk of irrelevance.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game, we’re joined by Nathalia Amadeu, Global Brand Director at Vaseline, to explore how the 150-year-old brand is reinventing itself in the social-first era. It centres on the hugely successful Vaseline Verified campaign (winner of nine awards at the Cannes International Festival of Creativity, including a Titanium Lion). A campaign which, as Nathalia puts it - “challenged decades of brand control thinking.” With millions of people already sharing their own ways of using the product, instead of leading the conversation, Vaseline chose to listen.  The result is a new model of brand building - one that validates, amplifies and co-creates with its community. That shift in approach is not just a campaign idea, it is also reshaping innovation, with new products, co-built with creators, in production.  This is an inspiring, must-listen for anyone looking to grow a brand in a completely new way.  Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: forgemsq.com This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:46) Stewardship Over Ownership (08:12) From Campaign To Products (20:19) Faster Feedback Loops (26:27) Eyebrow Hack Becomes Product (37:21) Principles For Participation

“The biggest thing that children show me is that there are no limits to what we can do.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we’re taking inspiration from the creativity of children. Our guest is Sarah Horowitz, Marketing Director for the UK and Northern Europe at Crayola. Crayola is an incredibly well-established brand, and has been relevant in homes and schools for more than a century. We discuss how it’s maintaining and growing that position in a fast-changing world, how it puts creativity at the centre of everything it does, and the lessons all marketers can learn from the way children use its products. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: https://forgemsq.com This is an 18Sixty production for Forge and MSQ. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:21) The Role of Adults in Children's Creativity (10:42) Understanding Gen Z and Gen Alpha (16:51) Creativity Across All Ages (26:23) Embracing a Child's Perspective

“You need an insights function that is really focused on being a catalyst for growth in an end-to-end way.” For many years, the insights industry has desired a ‘seat at the top table’, influencing decisions at the most senior levels of their organisations. There are few insights professionals as senior and influential to their businesses as our guest on this episode, Stephan Gans, Senior Vice President of Insights and Analytics at PepsiCo. Stephan shares the steps PepsiCo’s insights team has taken to move from order-taking to being a true catalyst for business growth, why our thirst for insights has never been greater, and the three critical roles he says insights teams must play in any future business.  We also talk about the skills that will be most valuable in the future as we enable our insights functions with AI. This is a must-listen for anyone working in insights. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:13) A Unified Approach (07:55) Balancing Short-term and Long-term Goals (14:12) The Role of AI in Insights (19:42) Future Skills for Insights Professionals